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SydneySider
Posted: Sunday, December 29, 2013 10:50:15 PM

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Location: Sydney, Australia
Ok, so I hear on the radio this morning that a certain religion wants to make women cover up on our beaches. Here is why. Because being surrounded by women in bikinis is against their religion, the men are forced to swim at the beaches outside the safety of the surf lifesaving flags because they cant be seen near a woman who is 'scantily clothed.' To me, this is absolute fucking madness. This, and many other countries, do everything within their powers to make religions from other parts of the world feel welcome, and allow them to continue to practise their beliefs. But for me, this is taking it just a little too far, and to be honest, it will never happen. So, how would this make you feel if your country, your rights, were faced with even the suggestion of something like this?



trinket
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 3:58:13 AM

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SydneySider wrote:
Ok, so I hear on the radio this morning that a certain religion wants to make women cover up on our beaches. Here is why. Because being surrounded by women in bikinis is against their religion, the men are forced to swim at the beaches outside the safety of the surf lifesaving flags because they cant be seen near a woman who is 'scantily clothed.' To me, this is absolute fucking madness. This, and many other countries, do everything within their powers to make religions from other parts of the world feel welcome, and allow them to continue to practise their beliefs. But for me, this is taking it just a little too far, and to be honest, it will never happen. So, how would this make you feel if your country, your rights, were faced with even the suggestion of something like this?


I hear on the radio this morning that a certain religion wants to make women cover up on our beaches.
I agree this is never going to happen, so I suggest they find their own area or live in a country where women are covered up when they swim. This is Australia and nobody is going to tell us to cover up a bikini on our beaches.

Because being surrounded by women in bikinis is against their religion
Don't go where there are women in bikinis. If you don't go where there are women in bikinis and you choose to swim outside the safety flags, good luck with thatl.

To me, this is absolute fucking madness.
Answer: ME TOO!




suckmefuckme
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 7:12:27 AM

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Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 34
cussing if they dont like our way of life,why dont they just fuckoff back to the rock quarry of a shit hole they came from.
elizabethblack
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 9:36:32 AM

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Location: United States
Of course it would be ridiculous to pay any attention to such a silly report. I've gotten to the point that just because I heard it, read it and even saw it - I don't believe it is the whole story. This sounds to me like something blown out of proportion or not even true; but it can stir people up against another group. Keep that hate going...I guess someone will win a prize if they get the most haters.


dpw
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 9:52:11 AM

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elizabethblack wrote:
Of course it would be ridiculous to pay any attention to such a silly report. I've gotten to the point that just because I heard it, read it and even saw it - I don't believe it is the whole story. This sounds to me like something blown out of proportion or not even true; but it can stir people up against another group. Keep that hate going...I guess someone will win a prize if they get the most haters.

Well in the UK the biggest Department Store chain was allowing Muslims to refuse to sell alcohol and pork to customers in the foodhall! That's not an exaggeration, my point would be don't work there, don't apply for the job! I couldn't see it happening in USA but then again who'd of thought prohibition would ever happen there?
seeker4
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:12:09 AM

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Location: In the great, beautiful Cosmos, Canada
Before we jump on a particular group (since Muslims were mentioned even though the OP did not specify the religion involved), let's not forget that many faith groups have been guilty of this kind of imposition of values. Ultra-orthodox Jewish groups have done it in Israel; fundamentalist Christian groups have done it, and continue to try to do it, in the US and Canada; and so on. Hell, many of the leaders of the Temperance movement that lobbied for Prohibition in North America came from relatively (by the standards of the time) liberal religious groups.

The desire to get society to conform to a specific religion's values is a feature of traditionalist and fundamentalist religion in general (and even some liberal religions), not of a particular religion. Personally, I have been affected more by Christian-oriented legislation and Christian lobbying on various issues than by anything related to or done by Muslims and I resent the imposition of "Christian values" (as defined by certain elements within Christianity) as much as I would the imposition of "Muslim values" (as defined by certain elements within Islam).

For instance, we are about to have yet another battle over the status of the sex trade in Canada and most of the religious lobbying on that issue is going to come from Christians, some of whom have the ear of the government or at least of elements and individuals within the government.

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Guest
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:49:28 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
Applause Applause
elizabethblack wrote:
Of course it would be ridiculous to pay any attention to such a silly report. I've gotten to the point that just because I heard it, read it and even saw it - I don't believe it is the whole story. This sounds to me like something blown out of proportion or not even true; but it can stir people up against another group. Keep that hate going...I guess someone will win a prize if they get the most haters.
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:55:08 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
Are you talking about Amish? lol
dpw
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:46:25 AM

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Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
seeker4 wrote:
Before we jump on a particular group (since Muslims were mentioned even though the OP did not specify the religion involved), let's not forget that many faith groups have been guilty of this kind of imposition of values. Ultra-orthodox Jewish groups have done it in Israel; fundamentalist Christian groups have done it, and continue to try to do it, in the US and Canada; and so on. Hell, many of the leaders of the Temperance movement that lobbied for Prohibition in North America came from relatively (by the standards of the time) liberal religious groups.

The desire to get society to conform to a specific religion's values is a feature of traditionalist and fundamentalist religion in general (and even some liberal religions), not of a particular religion. Personally, I have been affected more by Christian-oriented legislation and Christian lobbying on various issues than by anything related to or done by Muslims and I resent the imposition of "Christian values" (as defined by certain elements within Christianity) as much as I would the imposition of "Muslim values" (as defined by certain elements within Islam).

For instance, we are about to have yet another battle over the status of the sex trade in Canada and most of the religious lobbying on that issue is going to come from Christians, some of whom have the ear of the government or at least of elements and individuals within the government.

Whilst I agree with most of what you say, I feel that people of other religious beliefs should not come to a country and try to change it! If I were to move to another country I'd show more respect for their laws and traditions. I would not move to a country where it is illegal to be gay and then expect them to change the law. I would support those that lived there and wanted to bring about change!
Meggsy
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 2:38:35 PM

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Joined: 10/23/2013
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Location: Australia
I frequent nudist beaches and we had one girl in a scarf swimming there mid-week - and three of her male minders (clothed) watching that nobody approached her.
It did look a bit stupid but if that rocks her boat - so be it. I notice the guys got an eyeful of everybody else that was there and didnt seem too upset or embarrassed. Pity they didnt get their gear off too. It was obvious she didnt have a beard down there either - it was nicely trimmed and shaped. She covered everything with that stupid head to toe covering before leaving, and wore nothing underneath. A modern girl in some ways evidently. I have heard that even in our brothels they wear the scarf (and nothing else) while they provide their services. Evidently they are also popular - forbidden fruit ?????
My motto - adapt or go back.
LadyX
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 2:39:41 PM

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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,653
Location: United States
seeker4 wrote:


The desire to get society to conform to a specific religion's values is a feature of traditionalist and fundamentalist religion in general (and even some liberal religions), not of a particular religion. Personally, I have been affected more by Christian-oriented legislation and Christian lobbying on various issues than by anything related to or done by Muslims and I resent the imposition of "Christian values" (as defined by certain elements within Christianity) as much as I would the imposition of "Muslim values" (as defined by certain elements within Islam).


I agree in that neither is good, and both are off-putting, but for all their other misguided leanings, no Christian politicians have thus far suggested that I shouldn't show my ankles, or that I shouldn't drive, or get an education, by penalty of unchecked brutality. Thus far, no Christian clerics have mandated that I wear a headscarf, though they do bitch a lot about nudity if given a forum to voice it.

At such time that this changes, I'll put them on equal footing.

While I agree with dpw that one cannot move to another culture and demand it changes to suit them, I have a hard time reconciling that sentiment with the fact that so many women in other countries are subject to inhumane subjugation. Is it acceptable simply because it exists in their culture?
dpw
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 2:58:18 PM

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LadyX wrote:


I agree in that neither is good, and both are off-putting, but for all their other misguided leanings, no Christian politicians have thus far suggested that I shouldn't show my ankles, or that I shouldn't drive, or get an education, by penalty of unchecked brutality. Thus far, no Christian clerics have mandated that I wear a headscarf, though they do bitch a lot about nudity if given a forum to voice it.

At such time that this changes, I'll put them on equal footing.

While I agree with dpw that one cannot move to another culture and demand it changes to suit them, I have a hard time reconciling that sentiment with the fact that so many women in other countries are subject to inhumane subjugation. Is it acceptable simply because it exists in their culture?

I totally agree but my point is don't move to a country and expect them to change to suit you.
As far as women's and even gay rights go, we should bring pressure internationally for change. That's how South Africa changed.
LadyX
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 2:59:52 PM

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dpw wrote:

I totally agree but my point is don't move to a country and expect them to change to suit you.
As far as women's and even gay rights go, we should bring pressure internationally for change. That's how South Africa changed.


Totally agree.
seeker4
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 3:03:03 PM

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Location: In the great, beautiful Cosmos, Canada
LadyX wrote:


I agree in that neither is good, and both are off-putting, but for all their other misguided leanings, no Christian politicians have thus far suggested that I shouldn't show my ankles, or that I shouldn't drive, or get an education, by penalty of unchecked brutality. Thus far, no Christian clerics have mandated that I wear a headscarf, though they do bitch a lot about nudity if given a forum to voice it.



Only because they've been smacked down enough times that they don't bother anymore, at least up here. They certainly led the charge here in Ontario when a woman challenged the indecent exposure laws after being caught going topless in public and won. They didn't win that battle (and women don't go topless around here to any great extent in spite of their Chicken Little ravings) but that does not mean they haven't lost interest in it.

Maybe it is different where you are, but every attempt that I have seen here in Canada to impose religious values via legislation has come from Christians whether it's Prohibition, or criminalizing the sex trade, or public nudity, or abortion. While Muslim countries may well impose the laws you talk about and should be called out for it (e.g. Saudi Arabia which seems to keep getting a "get out of human rights criticism free" pass all too often by being an oil-rich Western ally), there has been no effort that I have seen to impose them here in Canada while we have at least private member's bill per legislative session, from Christian legislators, on abortion.

I am not going to waste my time and breath fighting phantom threats of Muslims bringing sharia to Canada (while certainly criticizing its application where it is applied) when I have real fundamentalist (and I emphasize that it is the fundamentalists because many liberal and progressive Christians are with me on this) Christians making real efforts to impose their values on the legislative agenda.


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LadyX
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 3:06:48 PM

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seeker4 wrote:


Only because they've been smacked down enough times that they don't bother anymore, at least up here. They certainly led the charge here in Ontario when a woman challenged the indecent exposure laws after being caught going topless in public and won. They didn't win that battle (and women don't go topless around here to any great extent in spite of their Chicken Little ravings) but that does not mean they haven't lost interest in it.

Maybe it is different where you are, but every attempt that I have seen here in Canada to impose religious values via legislation has come from Christians whether it's Prohibition, or criminalizing the sex trade, or public nudity, or abortion. While Muslim countries may well impose the laws you talk about, there has been no effort that I have seen to impose them here while we have at least private member's bill per legislative session from Christian legislators on abortion.

I am not going to waste my time and breath fighting phantom threats of Muslims bringing sharia to Canada when I have real fundamentalist (and I emphasize that it is the fundamentalists because many liberal and progressive Christians are with me on this) Christians making real efforts to impose their values on the legislative agenda.


I understand exactly what you mean, and for the most part, I agree. There are reasons why the US and Canada don't find themselves in the same kind of cultural tussle with Muslims that European countries do, but we're aware of them just the same. And you're right, traditionally and currently, the cultural scolds among our politicians tend to come from a Christian perspective. To that end, they have affected me more just as you say they've affected you more. Those living in London or Paris probably feel differently as of 2013.
dpw
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 3:32:33 PM

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Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
LadyX wrote:


I understand exactly what you mean, and for the most part, I agree. There are reasons why the US and Canada don't find themselves in the same kind of cultural tussle with Muslims that European countries do, but we're aware of them just the same. And you're right, traditionally and currently, the cultural scolds among our politicians tend to come from a Christian perspective. To that end, they have affected me more just as you say they've affected you more. Those living in London or Paris probably feel differently as of 2013.

And Liverpool! Lol.
ByronLord
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 5:55:35 PM

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dpw wrote:

Well in the UK the biggest Department Store chain was allowing Muslims to refuse to sell alcohol and pork to customers in the foodhall! That's not an exaggeration, my point would be don't work there, don't apply for the job! I couldn't see it happening in USA but then again who'd of thought prohibition would ever happen there?


It was only one branch and it is just as haram to work for a business that sells pork as to handle the sake directly.

I just joined the church of the papal mainframe where nudity is required for all services (google it if you don't believe me).

Making idiot demands of everyone else to observe religious taboos is an old game for spreading religious bigotry. It isn't tolerance to give in when doing so forces everyone else into observance, rather it is the opposite. Especially when the taboos they are trying to spread are sexist.

And no, Islam does not respect women specially or any such twaddle any more than Christianity did before the sexist bigotry started to be dumped a hundred years ago.

ByronLord
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 5:55:38 PM

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dpw wrote:

Whilst I agree with most of what you say, I feel that people of other religious beliefs should not come to a country and try to change it! If I were to move to another country I'd show more respect for their laws and traditions. I would not move to a country where it is illegal to be gay and then expect them to change the law. I would support those that lived there and wanted to bring about change!


I disagree. When I visit a country with an obnoxious government it is generally with the objective of undermining and eliminating it. So I can hardly complain

On the other hand, there aren't many obnoxious governments left and of those none that I can safely visit so its not much of an issue.

sprite
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:12:24 PM

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suckmefuckme wrote:
cussing if they dont like our way of life,why dont they just fuckoff back to the rock quarry of a shit hole they came from.


way to go, open minded non-bigoted person. :)
Buz
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:19:44 PM

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There is and always has been some group wanting to infringe upon the rights of others and trying to force them to obey their own belief system. It will never end and it comes from every end of the political and social spectrum.

You must be willing to fight for your freedoms and liberty or you will lose them. And I mean FIGHT!

As for me, beach nudity get a resounding YES!

I have written a new poem. It is called 'Long Twisty Woman.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/long-twisty-woman.aspxx
Also, if you wish, check out my co-authored a story with the wonderful DanielleX. It is called 'Focus on Sex.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/quickie-sex/focused-on-sex-1.aspx

dpw
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:20:49 PM

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ByronLord wrote:


I disagree. When I visit a country with an obnoxious government it is generally with the objective of undermining and eliminating it. So I can hardly complain

On the other hand, there aren't many obnoxious governments left and of those none that I can safely visit so its not much of an issue.

So you think it's ok for people to go to the USA and be subversive just because they think that the government is obnoxious?
Buz
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:36:55 PM

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dpw wrote:

I would not move to a country where it is illegal to be gay and then expect them to change the law. I would support those that lived there and wanted to bring about change!


The three most populated nations on our planet are anti-gay: Russia, China, and India, along with most of the Mideast, a large part of Africa, most of southeast Asia, and much of South America. In other words, most of the world. We are lucky to live in the most open minded parts of the world, here in western society of the 21st Century.

Progressive history is about those who are brave enough to fight for freedom and liberty, to not live under the yoke of tyranny and oppression, as most of the world does.

I have written a new poem. It is called 'Long Twisty Woman.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/long-twisty-woman.aspxx
Also, if you wish, check out my co-authored a story with the wonderful DanielleX. It is called 'Focus on Sex.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/quickie-sex/focused-on-sex-1.aspx

DLizze
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 7:18:22 PM

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sprite wrote:


way to go, open minded non-bigoted person. :)
]


I'm gonna quote from the film, The American President here: "That's sass, right? I've seen sass, and I'm pretty sure that's it."
(I'm doing this from memory, but I think I have the quote right.) :)

"There's only three tempos: slow, medium and fast. When you get between in the cracks, ain't nuthin' happenin'." Ben Webster
dpw
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 7:19:00 PM

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Buz wrote:


The three most populated nations on our planet are anti-gay: Russia, China, and India, along with most of the Mideast, a large part of Africa, most of southeast Asia, and much of South America. In other words, most of the world. We are lucky to live in the most open minded parts of the world, here in western society of the 21st Century.

Progressive history is about those who are brave enough to fight for freedom and liberty, to not live under the yoke of tyranny and oppression, as most of the world does.

Russia isn't in the top 5 populations and it's not illegal to be homosexual only the promotion of it to minors.
In China there's no law making homosexuality illegal, in fact there's a good chance that gay marriage will be legalised there before the USA.
In India it was only a court ruling this month that reversed a previous ruling that has made homosexuality illegal and leading figures in the government have pledged to change the law.
All this is by the by, I said that I wouldn't move to a country and demand that they change their laws, that is up to their citizens. I would support them but it's their country not mine.
How would you feel if a group of immigrants suddenly wanted Sharia law introduced in the USA? That's my point and the point of the op.
GardenerGuy
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 7:54:25 PM

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They should strictly enforce things at beaches like pantaloons, leather ball caps with flames down the sides, and skull-topped walking sticks (for "keeping the peace").

but yeah what Elizabeth Black was saying - this sounds like some flimsy hot-button thing.
ByronLord
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 8:32:04 PM

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dpw wrote:

So you think it's ok for people to go to the USA and be subversive just because they think that the government is obnoxious?


Yep, sure do. And the US has been doing that to the rest of the planet for years.

What is different is that I don't believe that we have the right to force that change with bombs, bullets and threats of murder. Which makes me different from both Al Qaeda and the US military.

Buz
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 8:48:57 PM

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Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 5,142
Location: Atlanta, United States
dpw wrote:

Russia isn't in the top 5 populations and it's not illegal to be homosexual only the promotion of it to minors.
In China there's no law making homosexuality illegal, in fact there's a good chance that gay marriage will be legalised there before the USA.
In India it was only a court ruling this month that reversed a previous ruling that has made homosexuality illegal and leading figures in the government have pledged to change the law.
All this is by the by, I said that I wouldn't move to a country and demand that they change their laws, that is up to their citizens. I would support them but it's their country not mine.
How would you feel if a group of immigrants suddenly wanted Sharia law introduced in the USA? That's my point and the point of the op.



I didn't say anything about legality, did I? I said they are anti-gay because the religious and cultural attitudes of those countries and most of the world are anti-gay. Most of the world is not a bastion of freedom, liberty, and open acceptance.

If a country's laws or traditions are wrong I do not support them no matter what. Change does not happen with complacency and unwillingness to act.

I guess Russia's population is now just a mere 142,958,000 at #9. Sorry about getting that rank wrong.

I have written a new poem. It is called 'Long Twisty Woman.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/long-twisty-woman.aspxx
Also, if you wish, check out my co-authored a story with the wonderful DanielleX. It is called 'Focus on Sex.'
You can read it at: http://www.lushstories.com/stories/quickie-sex/focused-on-sex-1.aspx

Highwayman
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:45:35 PM

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Posts: 1,498
I'm just glad that I live in a country where we don't let moral minorities dictate it's citizen's rights.

‎"The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible." --Wilde
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:46:33 AM

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Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 13,548
Location: My Tower, United States
Highwayman wrote:
I'm just glad that I live in a country where we don't let moral minorities dictate it's citizen's rights.


wait... is that irony or sarcasm? i can never tell the difference. evil4
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:09:01 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
I think every racist and prejudiced should be hidden in a bag and have a stuffed tomato in theyr mouth, a carrot in the ass and a stalk of celery in each nostril and an extra eggplant for women...And it should be left to soak in "agreeable" Australian heat or "charming" Canadian cold for twelve hours. Just a thaught...
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