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Serious question for all English soccer fans

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DanielleX
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Why don't we send a United Kingdom team to the World Cup?

Technically speaking the UK is the country. England is a region.

My gf knows all about soccer but she is stumped by this and none of my friends know the answer.


Thanks

Danny x

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England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are countries within a country. They all have their own government which sits under the British government. They also have their own national flag too. There is a British rugby team but I think that's because there are two types of rugby - Rugby League and Rugby Union so one has an England, Scotland and Wales team, the other has a Great Britain team.

There is only one type of soccer so each nation has it's own team particularly as they also have their own dedicated football leagues. Yes I know that there are a few Welsh teams in the English league but that is because there are only a few professional Welsh teams, whereas the Welsh League itself is only semi-professional.
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Littleluce, I couldn't have answered it better myself !!
clum
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I don't think there really is an answer. We could decide to have a UK football team, or any sports team, in the same way that we compete as UK at the Olympic Games.

Acting as separate countries when it comes to sport is just something that the four nations of UK decided to do.

In rugby, Ireland, which is not a country but an island, plays as one team.
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Well even without football they are classed as countries within a country. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have all brought in laws regarding certain things like charging for carrier bags. England have only just followed suit a couple of years later or so. They each have their own football league so they all have their own national team.

Personally I don't think that any of the fans or players from Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland would want a Great Britain team as they are all too proud of their countries anyway. If there was a great Britain team then it wouldn't be allowed to enter either the World Cup or the European Championships while the four home nations were involved.
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Quote by clum
I don't think there really is an answer. We could decide to have a UK football team, or any sports team, in the same way that we compete as UK at the Olympic Games.

Acting as separate countries when it comes to sport is just something that the four nations of UK decided to do.

In rugby, Ireland, which is not a country but an island, plays as one team.




I don't believe that to be true as it is the respective Football Associations that make those decisions.

Yes Ireland is an Island but also a European country as they are a republic, they have the Euro as their currency.
clum
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Quote by LittleLuce
I don't believe that to be true as it is the respective Football Associations that make those decisions.


Yeah, but at one point there was a decision made to have separate football associations. And it wouldn't be impossible for those four associations to come to an agreement to have a UK team.

My point is, it was just a decision that was made, but it wasn't a given.

Quote by LittleLuce
Yes Ireland is an Island but also a European country as they are a republic, they have the Euro as their currency.


No, the Irish rugby team consists of players from both The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Ireland is not a country.
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If you look back at Danny's post she asked.......

"Why don't we send a United Kingdom team to the World Cup?"

Because we wouldn't be able to enter England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland - it would have to be one or the other. We do have a GB team for the Olympics as we enter the Olympics as Britain rather than England, Scotland, Wales or N.Ireland.

Ireland, Britain, and Cyprus are all Islands but listed as European countries.
DanielleX
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Quote by LittleLuce
If you look back at Danny's post she asked.......

"Why don't we send a United Kingdom team to the World Cup?"

Because we wouldn't be able to enter England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland - it would have to be one or the other. We do have a GB team for the Olympics as we enter the Olympics as Britain rather than England, Scotland, Wales or N.Ireland.

Ireland, Britain, and Cyprus are all Islands but listed as European countries.



Must say, I'm not 100% convinced. I didn't think England was a country. Surely the country is UK. France and Germany are countries. You don't get them sending Saxony and Provence to the World Cup.

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Hi Danny I hope you're well.....

To be honest it seems to be an inconclusive and grey area. When you listen to the news Germany, France Spain and others are often referred no as European States rather than countries.
When you look at the list of European countries England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are not listed but The United Kingdom is, and so is the Republic of Ireland.

When you look up the United Kingdom it says "The United Kingdom of Countries". So you'll have to make your own mind up on that one but it is all irrelevant as your post originally asked about a United Kingdom Team at the World Cup.

Well I cannot see other European countries agreeing to us entering England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland into the world cup as well as a United Kingdom side and quite simply.......... why would they want to.

There is much more prestige being picked for England than the United Kingdom and the same goes for the Scots, N. Irish and The welsh. After all, the British Olympic football team was poorly represented so why would the players wish to play for a United Kingdom team?
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Just to add that I believe the reason why the UK is listed as a European country is because it governs over England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The capital of The United Kingdom is England.
DanielleX
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Quote by LittleLuce
Just to add that I believe the reason why the UK is listed as a European country is because it governs over England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The capital of The United Kingdom is England.


Hi Lucy,
I'm good, how are you? Got a bit drunk last night lol.

Firstly, I believe you mean the capital of the United Kingdom is London. I guess England was a typo?

I don't know the first thing about football - my gf says I've got to stop calling it soccer. She says that's an Americanism, which it isn't but that's another issue.

Anyway, I definitely don't think anyone would argue for England and all the other regions to enter the World Cup as well as UK.

As far as the EU goes, England is not classed as a country. The EU's own website lists the United Kingdom as a member state. See here

My friend Ashlie is here and she has phoned her Dad. He says that it's nothing to do with whether England is a country. It's because there just isn't a UK team. England has its own football association and as this is recognized by FIFA, it's England that go. I think you sort of said this in one of your earlier answers when you talked about football leagues.

Danny xxx

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Hi Danny I hope the hangover is not too bad, I am well thank you.

I've been trying to source as much information as I can on what you've asked.

No it wasn't a typo - the site I looked on was all facts about the United Kingdom - much that I didn't know and it stated that the Capital of the UK is England, but I believe that what they were saying was that it is the dominant country.

All the sites that I looked at list the UK as a group of countries within a country. Hence the fact that England, Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland all have Football Associations recognised by UEFA and FIFA. A UK team would have to be the subject of agreement between the four home nation Football Associations - not just down to the English FA.

I've no confidence in other nations, I've seen very little support for the UK from Europe and I still say we wouldn't be able to have a UK team that ran alongside the four home nations. For a start the four home nations would have the pick of the best players for their country so a UK team would always suffer.

If you go to the Think Tank forum you'll see that I have had a long running conversation with someone about Britain's lack of popularity in Europe. It's in the "Honestly (Are you a little bit racist?)" thread. You'll understand then why I think we would never be able to have a GB or UK team entering the same footballing competitions as the four home nations are involved with. There would be no support for it in Europe.

Secondly anyone who played for the four home nations wouldn't be able to play for the UK team and vice-versa. The four home nation teams and the UK team would have to remain as separate entities - as a player you would have to choose who you would always play for from the outset.

For instance if you were playing for England and England failed to qualify for the World Cup finals - you wouldn't be allowed to just go off and play for the UK team if it qualified for the finals. There is no way that other countries would agree to that.

There are also other issues that would go against having a UK team.

Yes I did state in my last post that England isn't recognised as a country but the UK is listed as a member state.
But just to throw another curve ball in - as England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland still hold country status - any of them can have a referendum and leave the UK - just as the Scots are discussing this at the moment. It's all about whether each of the home nations feel that they are stronger together as the United Kingdom or whether they want to go it alone as a republic like Ireland.


All of this is just my opinion Danny, just what I considered to be honest common sense thought. If you were really interested then you could send an identical email to each of the four nations Football Associations asking about the possibility of a UK team and if it would be able to run alongside the four nations as a team entering the World Cup and European Championships. It certainly would be interesting to hear their view on the matter.

Take care now......

Lucy xxxx
DanielleX
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Quote by LittleLuce
...

All of this is just my opinion Danny, just what I considered to be honest common sense thought. If you were really interested then you could send an identical email to each of the four nations Football Associations asking about the possibility of a UK team and if it would be able to run alongside the four nations as a team entering the World Cup and European Championships. It certainly would be interesting to hear their view on the matter.

Take care now......

Lucy xxxx


Thank you for the extra info, Lucy. I stupidly expected there to be a really obvious answer to this, but it just seems to be a big muddle, I'm not that bothered so I'll just leave it there. I just find it bugs me if I don't know something.

It struck me as odd that there wasn't a UK team, that's all.

Take care and have a good evening.


Danny xxx

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To be honest, even if there was a UK football team, the only player from outside of England that would be good enough to get into the team would be Gareth Bale.
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Quote by Adonis_
To be honest, even if there was a UK football team, the only player from outside of England that would be good enough to get into the team would be Gareth Bale.



Aron Ramsey comes to mind. A few others that could easily have slipped into the England squad but names who elude me atm.

But regardless, I think it's more to the fact that as mentioned England, Scotland, Wales and NI all have their own FA. The same goes for the Faero Islands and Greenland which are under the administration of Denmark, but still field their own teams(or Greenland would if FIFA would let them). No other European countries have a division with it's own FA, not even Spain where many consider themselves Catalan and not Spanish.

Besides, I don't think neither Wales, certainly not Scotland or Northern Ireland would give up that little bit of independence to create a UK team. Same as it would be just too much for the average English supporter to admit that they need the help of Wales and Scotland to become better. There's a lot of social issues at work as well.

Edit: And I agree. Stop calling it fucking soccer. It's a disgrace to the wonderful sport to call it that. Every other language I can think of(and slightly understand) calls it the more or less direct translation of football.
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I think I understand pretty well about the team being England, with Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland each having their own representative teams. There is a long history that goes into all of that. I believe that the Scots especially take pride in having their own team, separate from the UK and especially separate from England, etc. For a long time England and Scotland shared monarchs, yet, were completely separate sovereign nations from one another. That might confuse some, but history buffs know all about it.

As an American observer, I think an England vs Scotland showdown would be tremendously entertaining, or England vs Ireland, or England vs Wales.

Oh, Elit, if I call it soccer, I am not being rude or offensive. It's a cultural difference. It is called football where you live, but where I live, football is something different and we call what y'all play, soccer. That is not being disrespectful.

PS. More Americans watched the USA's team on TV in the World Cup play-offs than have ever watched soccer before. We actually had a good crowd that traveled to attend the games. I still don't understand all the rules, but I did get caught up in it and enjoyed it very much... until our guy missed what looked like should have been an easy goal. grrrrrr....
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Quote by LittleLuce
Just to add that I believe the reason why the UK is listed as a European country is because it governs over England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The capital of The United Kingdom is England.

The United Kingdom is not a country, it's a Nation, a State or a Realm. It consists of Great Britain and the Province of Northern Ireland. The island of Great Britain consists of three countries, England, Scotland and Wales.
I didn't think that the UK had a capital. It has a Seat of Government and each country has a capital.
It's quite correct that each of the Football Associations are independant and can be represented by a team. If the UK were to have a team, then they would have to form a new Football Association and the old ones would have to be abolished. That was the case after Germany was reunited.
SixtyMinuteMan
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I suspect it has something to do with the legacy of the British Home Championship, as well. The Home Nations contested it long before there was a World Cup, and it certainly left a separate football culture in each.

Plus, you know Scotland would be all "They may take our lives, but they'll never take our Old Firm players!!!!"
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im a very proud english man to start off with. I DO NOT consider myself britsh and do not feel any connection to OUR territories,i,e scotland,wales,northern ireland. we as a nation of great britain fielded a team in the london olympics in the mens and womens FOOTBALL (not soccer) and it was basically a novelty team. ask a english man and he would more than likely say he didn't want a uk team anyway. i cant say the jocks,taffs and paddies would either.
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This may help...

angieseroticpen
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Quote by DanielleX
Why don't we send a United Kingdom team to the World Cup?

Technically speaking the UK is the country. England is a region.

My gf knows all about soccer but she is stumped by this and none of my friends know the answer.


Thanks

Danny x


Good idea in theory but in reality the Football Associations would not get on and there is quite bitter rivalry between the English, Scots and Welsh. There would never be any agreement between the three.

Would it make us any better playing as a nation? Nope! We have this inflated opinion that we have great footballers when the truth is we are pretty mediocre. You can count world class, home grown, players on one hand. And as for managers........... well outside of Alex Ferguson and Bill Shankly, there has never been a noteworthy team coach/manager in the UK. Sorry but Britiish soccer is appalling. Cricket and Rugby is far more exciting.
“When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.”
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Quote by angieseroticpen


Good idea in theory but in reality the Football Associations would not get on and there is quite bitter rivalry between the English, Scots and Welsh. There would never be any agreement between the three.

Would it make us any better playing as a nation? Nope! We have this inflated opinion that we have great footballers when the truth is we are pretty mediocre. You can count world class, home grown, players on one hand. And as for managers........... well outside of Alex Ferguson and Bill Shankly, there has never been a noteworthy team coach/manager in the UK. Sorry but Britiish soccer is appalling. Cricket and Rugby is far more exciting.

Alf Ramsey, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Jock Stein and Bob Paisley were all world class managers.
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Quote by dpw

The United Kingdom is not a country, it's a Nation, a State or a Realm. It consists of Great Britain and the Province of Northern Ireland. The island of Great Britain consists of three countries, England, Scotland and Wales.
I didn't think that the UK had a capital. It has a Seat of Government and each country has a capital.
It's quite correct that each of the Football Associations are independant and can be represented by a team. If the UK were to have a team, then they would have to form a new Football Association and the old ones would have to be abolished. That was the case after Germany was reunited.



To be honest most of these terms are just labels anyway. Germany, France, Spain and in fact any of the EU countries have been called Nations, countries and states. The United Kingdom is listed on the European Union official website as a country - it's only peoples different views according to how they like to see the UK that causes so much confusion.

As David Cameron stated "England, Scotland and Wales are countries within a country" I think that sums it up well to fair. Yes Northern Ireland is a province of Ireland that is under our sovereignty.

Not that any of this matters as it has now gone off topic!
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Soccer is the round ball game. Footy or football is the oval ball game ie rugby league, rugby union, aussie rules and gridiron. It all is based on where you come from and what is the dominate sport played in the area.

I hope you (Lucy) are enjoying your time in Prague.
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dpw
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Quote by tubby1961
Soccer is the round ball game. Footy or football is the oval ball game ie rugby league, rugby union, aussie rules and gridiron. It all is based on where you come from and what is the dominate sport played in the area.

I hope you (Lucy) are enjoying your time in Prague.

Soccer is just a slang term for Association. It is also the only one that is played predominantly with the foot. If any sport has the right to be called football, it is this one.
It was the first of these games to be played and the first to establish universal rules.
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Quote by dpw

Alf Ramsey, Don Revie, Brian Clough, Jock Stein and Bob Paisley were all world class managers.



I'll maybe give you Bob Paisley on that. Alf Ramsey - yes he won a World Cup but it was a case of right time and right place. He did little after that. Clough, Stein and Revie - good club managers, yes, but capable of building a team good enough to win a World Cup? I don't think so.
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The UK is a Sovereign state made up of four countries. They are all considered countries of there own and have governing bodies which mean they play individually in football.
dpw
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Quote by angieseroticpen



I'll maybe give you Bob Paisley on that. Alf Ramsey - yes he won a World Cup but it was a case of right time and right place. He did little after that. Clough, Stein and Revie - good club managers, yes, but capable of building a team good enough to win a World Cup? I don't think so.

I think that you underestimate Ramsey. He took us to the semi's in Mexico as well. He was a great tactician.
Some might say that Revie had the greatest football brain ever. He introduced the 4 2 4 system, the Revie Plan.
Clough was one of the greatest motivators. He took a small club to win the European Cup twice. The FA was scared to appoint him England manager as he was outspoken.