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South African Rape Corrections Options · View
Guest
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:46:17 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
I hope you're sitting down when you read this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1161693/South-African-men-raping-women-cure-lesbians.html

Lesbians living in South Africa are being raped by men who believe it will 'cure' them of their sexual orientation, a report has revealed.

Women are reporting a rising tide of brutal homophobic attacks and murders and the widespread use of 'corrective' rape as a form of punishment.

The report, commissioned by international NGO ActionAid, called for South Africa's criminal justice system to recognise the rapes as hate crimes as police are reportedly failing to take action over the spiralling violence.

The extent of the brutality became clear when Eudy Simelane, former star of South Africa's national female football squad, became one of the victims last April.

Simelane, one of the first women to live openly as a lesbian and an equality rights campaigner, was gang-raped and beaten before being stabbed to death 25 times in the face, chest and legs.

Eudy Simelane died after being gang-raped, beaten and stabbed 25 times

Triangle, a gay rights organisation, said it deals with up to 10 new cases of 'corrective rape' every week.

Support groups claim an increasingly macho political environment led to inaction over attacks.

A statement released by South Africa's national prosecuting authority said: 'While hate crimes – especially of a sexual nature – are rife, it is not something that the South African government has prioritised as a specific project.'

Human rights and equality campaigners are hoping the reaction to Simelane's death and the trial of the three men accused of her rape and murder will help put an end to the attacks.

Laura Turquet, ActionAid’s women’s rights coordinator, said: 'So-called "corrective" rape is yet another grotesque manifestation of violence against women, the most widespread human rights violation in the world today.

'These crimes continue unabated and with impunity, while governments simply turn a blind eye.'
Zafia
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:48:10 PM

Rank: Lush Legend

Joined: 4/13/2008
Posts: 5,209
Location: Shoe Heaven
Yeah I was following a similar stories about female genocide and this just makes me sick as well......angry7

"Love all, trust a few, and do wrong to none."





LadySharon
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:46:16 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/5/2007
Posts: 2,060
Location: The Tundra, United States
This is repulsive!

The Roommates Trilogy:
Roommates with Benefits
Roommates with Benefits: Snowed In
Roommates with Benefits: The Working Vacation is now available for your reading pleasure

Look for the eBook version of Roommates with Benefits to come soon!
DBarclay
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:10:52 PM

Rank: Mr Nobody

Joined: 2/28/2008
Posts: 946
Location: Florida, United States
As one of the comments half mentioned having sex with babies
the animals believe cures AIDS..
Zafia
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:27:24 PM

Rank: Lush Legend

Joined: 4/13/2008
Posts: 5,209
Location: Shoe Heaven
Yes I read that too David......seems like being ignorant to proper medical treatment is getting very dangerous for those precious babies in that area of the world.....

sad really....

sad1

"Love all, trust a few, and do wrong to none."





DBarclay
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:42:45 PM

Rank: Mr Nobody

Joined: 2/28/2008
Posts: 946
Location: Florida, United States
South Africa is by far the most dangerous place in the world for anybody
Kinghorn
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:44:20 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
Some of these issues are covered in Customary Law (Traditional African Tribal Laws) in South Africa, which is completely different from the Roman-Dutch base that mainstream South Africa is supposed to work on, which renders certain issues quite hopeless.

Sadly these are horrific realities.

About 25-30% of my workforce are HIV positive.

From time to time I receive a doctors note explaining that an employee has TB. This means in practical reality he is close to dying from aids. I then attempt to have him admitted to an hospice for him to die in some form of comfort. The family does not always agree. After sometime a group of the family members arrive at my offices wearing their Sunday church clothes. They never make an appointment, so sometimes that have to wait. They usually bring food, as they know they will have to wait. Out of respect for the deceased it is a matter that can only be discussed with the big boss. So they won't speak to anyone else. They ask for money for the funeral and USD500 to buy a cow to be slaughtered at the funeral. I attempt to talk them out of the cow idea, explaining the benefits of using the money for something else ie education for their other children or relatives. It is taken as mildly insulting by them. That is their custom. None of them have any money.

When my workers get sick or injured they only want to go to a witch doctor. Sometimes almost close to forcefully I have them taken to a Western hospital.

Last Wednesday one of my businesses was held up by 4 armed gunmen. It is about the 30th time in 10 years.

There is a lot, and has been a lot of delusional reasoning that takes place here in South Africa.

Despite these things South Africans are fighting to come out of the grave darkness of aparthied. There is a lot of hope and the human condition is improving. However there is a lot of work to be done to ensure justice and that the constitutional rights of all South Africans are upheld.

This is a matter primarily for the South African people themselves. However they need help. To find happiness. From anywhere or anyone that can teach them...........
Kinghorn
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:38:07 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
To think and to reason
In South Africa was treason

To think of fair and be aware
Was something you would never dare

To think of man as other can
With love and hope, was not the plan

Unity was muntiny
Against your fellow man

Justice and injustice
Render each its due
Live your life
Avoid the strife
And see what it makes you

Bring harmony to life
With fellow man your wife
Who I am
Depends on what you do?




AppleOfYourEye
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2009 5:26:28 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 7/19/2008
Posts: 101
Location: Pacific Ocean
This is absolutly shattering to read. How can anyone see this as being "okay", no one woman or man should have to live thier life that way and worry about being murdered for something so basic as who they pick for thier lover. We still see things like this here in the U.S. but it has gotten much better. I hope that these women band together and stand up against thier predators.

Apple
Zafia
Posted: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:43:16 PM

Rank: Lush Legend

Joined: 4/13/2008
Posts: 5,209
Location: Shoe Heaven
Unfornately Apple most of the women that get attacked are murdered as well so the chance to seek justice against these heinous crimes are also ripped away from them......study


Interesting info Kinghorn.....

"Love all, trust a few, and do wrong to none."





joburghorny
Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 5:34:48 AM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 11/5/2009
Posts: 3
Location: Jozi
I apologise to wake a topic that has died a while ago but its a topic very close to my heart as I am South African.

I really feel that people should NOT judge a country only based on one article. How dare you (DBarclay) have the audacity to say that about a country that you clearly dont know much about. It really appalled me how you can make statements like that and i was under the impression that this was forum for those are well versed in matters that surround them. Clearly some member are not.

FROM PROUDLY SOUTH AFRICAN
SarahBeara18
Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 7:19:44 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/5/2008
Posts: 98
Please dont take this the wrong way but......this world is so messed up and so EVIL that while I was reading this it didn't even surprise me. I barely batted an eyelash. It's just one more sick thing to pile up with the long list of sick things this WORLD is capable of.

When you turn on the news and hear about women being abducted and raped, or tortured, or stabbed. Women being kidnapped and having their babies cut out of their wombs.

Girls being sold into prostitution, babies being dumped into dumpsters.

The halocaust, slavery, The war in Iraq. Women not having equal rights in other countries.

People being kidnapped and murdered and cut up into pieces and stored in freezers....

Fathers who lock their daughters in secret underground apartment for almost 20 yrs fathering 4 and 5 children with her..... and this happens to go unnoticed?

and countless other things. It's no longer a "Today in _______ Country, an atrocity like no other...."
Things are happening all over this world and its like a huge surprise when something else happens. This world is just going to keep getting sicker and sicker and more evil and that's just the reality that we have to live with.
Primal
Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 7:34:58 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/14/2009
Posts: 702
Location: USA
The problem is ignorance, a total lack of education. Parts of Africa are modern but lots of places over there are 1000 years behind us in the evolution and growth of civilization.



In order to know virtue, you must first become acquainted with vice.
- Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade


En vis mann slår aldri en hund i klubben med en stokk, fordi hunden vil vende rundt og biter mannens ballene av.
Charley
Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:04:39 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/24/2009
Posts: 364
Primal wrote:
The problem is ignorance, a total lack of education. Parts of Africa are modern but lots of places over there are 1000 years behind us in the evolution and growth of civilization.


Oh, yes, the Western world is at the pinnacle of civilization! How can you say this, when atrocities occur in the homes and on the streets of America and Europe every hour, of every day? That's right here, in the so called educated, civilized world. Let's all give ourselves a big pat on the back.

Primal
Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 3:10:21 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/14/2009
Posts: 702
Location: USA
Charley wrote:
Primal wrote:
The problem is ignorance, a total lack of education. Parts of Africa are modern but lots of places over there are 1000 years behind us in the evolution and growth of civilization.


Oh, yes, the Western world is at the pinnacle of civilization! How can you say this, when atrocities occur in the homes and on the streets of America and Europe every hour, of every day? That's right here, in the so called educated, civilized world. Let's all give ourselves a big pat on the back.



I don't get what your point is? What I said is the truth, some areas of this planet are desperately stuck in the dark ages. Yes, crime is human nature but you can't ignore archaic beliefs and motives. Do you think raping women to turn them straight or raping little girls to cure aids is not the result of a stunted culture stuck lagging behind?

What about sacrificing cows?

Female genital mutilation?

Witch doctors?

And its not only parts of Africa, look at Afghanistan they are also stuck 1000 years behind the rest of us.

Honor killings, no rights for women, murder of gay people, and so on.

To change medieval beliefs you have to educate and that takes multiple generations of educated individuals.



In order to know virtue, you must first become acquainted with vice.
- Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade


En vis mann slår aldri en hund i klubben med en stokk, fordi hunden vil vende rundt og biter mannens ballene av.
Guest
Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 4:45:26 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
Id just like to inform you all that they aren't being raped because they are 'lesbian' they are being raped because they believe that they are virgins, the story amongst them goes that they believe a virgin can cure them of aids, some believe only black virgins others believe only white.

This is also nothing new, tragic yes I have many friends that have been raped, but nothing new.
Rape in South Africa has also escalated due to the Fifa World Cup being held next year, most women are captured and prepared for sex trade.

To me the most tragic and heart wrenching is when I see or hear of little girls being raped, Im an aunty to three beautiful little girls (3,5 and 6), every time I hear of it or see the little girls in such horrific states I start to cry because I can just imagine them in the same position.

Its all very sad, but Ill keep my faith alive that my country will return to the safe place it once was.
However for my own safety I choose not to remain in South Africa, I had nothing to do with the country becoming what it is today and I'm not willing to be tortured by stories and remembrance of what it once was.
Charley
Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 5:47:19 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/24/2009
Posts: 364
Primal wrote:
Charley wrote:
Primal wrote:
The problem is ignorance, a total lack of education. Parts of Africa are modern but lots of places over there are 1000 years behind us in the evolution and growth of civilization.


Oh, yes, the Western world is at the pinnacle of civilization! How can you say this, when atrocities occur in the homes and on the streets of America and Europe every hour, of every day? That's right here, in the so called educated, civilized world. Let's all give ourselves a big pat on the back.



I don't get what your point is? What I said is the truth, some areas of this planet are desperately stuck in the dark ages. Yes, crime is human nature but you can't ignore archaic beliefs and motives. Do you think raping women to turn them straight or raping little girls to cure aids is not the result of a stunted culture stuck lagging behind?

What about sacrificing cows?

Female genital mutilation?

Witch doctors?

And its not only parts of Africa, look at Afghanistan they are also stuck 1000 years behind the rest of us.

Honor killings, no rights for women, murder of gay people, and so on.

To change medieval beliefs you have to educate and that takes multiple generations of educated individuals.


One of several points I was making was that you are trying to map your Western world view onto an alien culture, something that, philosophically, is extremely difficult to do. People of the countries you mention (and others that you'd probably consider backward) might well look at our culture and see it as corrupt and immoral. My other point is simply that we in the West can't congratulate ourselves too much on our so called cilivisation - how many rapes and murders took place in your city today? Are these rapes and murders the result of a "stunted" Western culture?

Do not think (or imply) that I'm endorsing the behaviour of the people that commit the terrible acts outlined (whether they be in Africa, America or anywhere), because clearly I am not. What I'm saying to you, is be very careful about making sweeping statements about whether a culture is advanced or not, because generalising statements about a people or culture is the basis of racism. Hope that is clear enough for you now. C.
Primal
Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 7:24:30 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/14/2009
Posts: 702
Location: USA
Charly, I didn't do what you mentioned. I did say "some" places of Africa are modern and "some" other places are not.

How is that a sweeping generalization of an entire people or culture?

My point was that education would stop the act of raping to cure aids. Rape for sexual urge or compulsion would still be around and it is in every corner of the planet. However, rape to cure aids is pretty unique to some areas of the planet which are stuck years in the past and haven't caught up to modern times.

Race is irrelevant and had nothing to do with my comments.



In order to know virtue, you must first become acquainted with vice.
- Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade


En vis mann slår aldri en hund i klubben med en stokk, fordi hunden vil vende rundt og biter mannens ballene av.
TheChrisJ
Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:41:26 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/13/2009
Posts: 315
Primal wrote:
Charley wrote:
Primal wrote:
The problem is ignorance, a total lack of education. Parts of Africa are modern but lots of places over there are 1000 years behind us in the evolution and growth of civilization.


Oh, yes, the Western world is at the pinnacle of civilization! How can you say this, when atrocities occur in the homes and on the streets of America and Europe every hour, of every day? That's right here, in the so called educated, civilized world. Let's all give ourselves a big pat on the back.



I don't get what your point is? What I said is the truth, some areas of this planet are desperately stuck in the dark ages. Yes, crime is human nature but you can't ignore archaic beliefs and motives. Do you think raping women to turn them straight or raping little girls to cure aids is not the result of a stunted culture stuck lagging behind?

What about sacrificing cows?

Female genital mutilation?

Witch doctors?

And its not only parts of Africa, look at Afghanistan they are also stuck 1000 years behind the rest of us.

Honor killings, no rights for women, murder of gay people, and so on.

To change medieval beliefs you have to educate and that takes multiple generations of educated individuals.



Ok everyone else gets to rant so now it's my turn for a second. Primal I may be mistaken but you are grouping sacrificing cows and the existence of witch doctors, in some cultures, together with disgusting vile crimes? First off the sacrificing of cows is part of a religion, just like Christians drinking the "blood and body" of Christ (which could be considered a cannibalistic act by some people). Whose to say that sacrificing cows is wrong and that anything that the "civilized" religions do are right. Second of all how are witch doctors evil or wrong? They are the equivalent of priests, monks, rabbis, etc. Except unlike leaders of the Christian religion witch doctors are not known for the molestation of young boys. So next time you decide to call the practices of different religions, that you know nothing about obviously, evil please check your facts or do a little research, thank you.

It's like Patton Oswalt said, every religion is just telling people what to do so they may get the "sky cookie, cake, pie, etc."

Forget who you thought I was, I'm The Chris J bitch!
Primal
Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 9:55:16 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/14/2009
Posts: 702
Location: USA
As an atheist or agnostic I agree with your comments regarding religion. I also never grouped an entire continent together.

I didn't mean for this to be an argument.

I think some areas of the planet have ass backwards or under developed societies and I don't think it is wrong to call a spade a spade.

I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but its my opinion on the matter.




In order to know virtue, you must first become acquainted with vice.
- Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade


En vis mann slår aldri en hund i klubben med en stokk, fordi hunden vil vende rundt og biter mannens ballene av.
fystee
Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:12:17 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/28/2007
Posts: 1,285
Location: tied up somewhere
ok so...oops religion talk....wrong room.
Zafia
Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:13:18 AM

Rank: Lush Legend

Joined: 4/13/2008
Posts: 5,209
Location: Shoe Heaven
People have the right to post thier opinion Primal but there are going to be times that people disagree no need to apologize just agree to disagree......

I personally feel that women in many places on this earth are not safe......it doesn't matter the what part......

"Love all, trust a few, and do wrong to none."





Charley
Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:35:22 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/24/2009
Posts: 364
Primal wrote:
Charly, I didn't do what you mentioned. I did say "some" places of Africa are modern and "some" other places are not.

How is that a sweeping generalization of an entire people or culture?

My point was that education would stop the act of raping to cure aids. Rape for sexual urge or compulsion would still be around and it is in every corner of the planet. However, rape to cure aids is pretty unique to some areas of the planet which are stuck years in the past and haven't caught up to modern times.

Race is irrelevant and had nothing to do with my comments.


Primal, From your original post, where you say "...lots of places over there are 1000 years behind us in the evolution and growth of civilization," it does seem to me that you are making a generalisation about a type of culture. Later, you clearly say "...look at Afghanistan they are also stuck 1000 years behind the rest of us." Isn't it a sweeping statement to refer to a whole country like that? Are there not so-called honour killings on the streets of the UK and US?

It would have been perfectly reasonable for you to say that some of the people of these countries need better education (just as is the case in most countries), but I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that a "civilisation" is less advanced, just because it differs from our own.

Also, I think TheChrisJ's post hits the nail on the head, when he points out the error of grouping a culture's religious acts with abhorrent crimes (those crimes may well be because of a lack of education, or just because there are nasty people that will take what they want, and use any excuse to justify it). What I'm saying is that it's a mistake to pin it all on a culture.

I've neither the time nor inclination to get into a long, heated, philosophical debate with you Primal, because I doubt that my observations will alter your perspective anyway. And, indeed, you are entitled to hold your opinion. However, I hope at least that you've been able to grasp my point; if not, then my apologies for not being able to make it in such a way that you can understand.

If you do have a mind that's open to learning more, then may I suggest that you take a trip to your local bookseller, where you'll find a wealth of material on Cultural Relativism. C.
DBarclay
Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2009 6:58:00 AM

Rank: Mr Nobody

Joined: 2/28/2008
Posts: 946
Location: Florida, United States
joburghorny wrote:
I apologise to wake a topic that has died a while ago but its a topic very close to my heart as I am South African.

I really feel that people should NOT judge a country only based on one article. How dare you (DBarclay) have the audacity to say that about a country that you clearly dont know much about. It really appalled me how you can make statements like that and i was under the impression that this was forum for those are well versed in matters that surround them. Clearly some member are not.

FROM PROUDLY SOUTH AFRICAN


You are blind ... 50 murders a day with a population of 47 million only bettered by columbia

World leader in rape...

The rich class in South Africa has moved into gated communities, creating a schism between classes and evidently races, one which was theoretically abolished during the apartheid. It is ranked first in rapes per capita amongst the whole world and has a notorious record for car hijacking. The problem is so severe, that women are allowed to speed through red lights to avoid being car hijacked, or worse. One of its capitals, Johannesburg, is the most dangerous, with almost all middle-class and high-class families carrying weapons merely for protection
Charley
Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:26:22 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/24/2009
Posts: 364
The official statistics do support DB's contention that South Africa is an extremely dangerous place:

Rapes (per capita)

# 1 South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people
# 2 Seychelles: 0.788294 per 1,000 people
# 3 Australia: 0.777999 per 1,000 people
# 4 Montserrat: 0.749384 per 1,000 people
# 5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people
# 6 Jamaica: 0.476608 per 1,000 people
# 7 Zimbabwe: 0.457775 per 1,000 people
# 8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people
# 9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people
# 10 Iceland: 0.246009 per 1,000 people
# 11 Papua New Guinea: 0.233544 per 1,000 people
# 12 New Zealand: 0.213383 per 1,000 people
# 13 United Kingdom: 0.142172 per 1,000 people
# 14 Spain: 0.140403 per 1,000 people
# 15 France: 0.139442 per 1,000 people
# 16 Korea, South: 0.12621 per 1,000 people
# 17 Mexico: 0.122981 per 1,000 people
# 18 Norway: 0.120836 per 1,000 people
# 19 Costa Rica: 0.118277 per 1,000 people
# 20 Venezuela: 0.115507 per 1,000 people

Surprising to Australia in third, and Canada in fifth.

Murders (per capita)

# 1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
# 2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
# 3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000 people
# 4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000 people
# 5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000 people
# 6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000 people
# 7 Estonia: 0.107277 per 1,000 people
# 8 Latvia: 0.10393 per 1,000 people
# 9 Lithuania: 0.102863 per 1,000 people
# 10 Belarus: 0.0983495 per 1,000 people
# 11 Ukraine: 0.094006 per 1,000 people
# 12 Papua New Guinea: 0.0838593 per 1,000 people
# 13 Kyrgyzstan: 0.0802565 per 1,000 people
# 14 Thailand: 0.0800798 per 1,000 people
# 15 Moldova: 0.0781145 per 1,000 people
# 16 Zimbabwe: 0.0749938 per 1,000 people
# 17 Seychelles: 0.0739025 per 1,000 people
# 18 Zambia: 0.070769 per 1,000 people
# 19 Costa Rica: 0.061006 per 1,000 people
# 20 Poland: 0.0562789 per 1,000 people
# 21 Georgia: 0.0511011 per 1,000 people
# 22 Uruguay: 0.045082 per 1,000 people
# 23 Bulgaria: 0.0445638 per 1,000 people
# 24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
# 25 Armenia: 0.0425746 per 1,000 people
# 26 India: 0.0344083 per 1,000 people
# 27 Yemen: 0.0336276 per 1,000 people
# 28 Dominica: 0.0289733 per 1,000 people
# 29 Azerbaijan: 0.0285642 per 1,000 people
# 30 Finland: 0.0283362 per 1,000 people
Guest
Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2009 8:01:22 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
Charley, thank you for posting the official statistics. I am shocked that Australia is listed as third, but then again i'm not. I for one was raped when I was 14 and no one is surprised when I tell them. Their response is "me too".

It's a very sad mixed up world, no matter what country it is.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:32:57 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
DBarclay wrote:
South Africa is by far the most dangerous place in the world for anybody


That is a bit harsh don't you think...I lived there for 25 years before leaving and I never got raped or killed..it's a third world country with all the problems and stigmas attached to it...There are worse countries (Zimababwe ,congo etc etc) out there they just don't get the press coverage SA does...It's a place trying to find it's feet after Apartheid...And it makes me angry when people make statements like that without actually living there
Primal
Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:59:26 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/14/2009
Posts: 702
Location: USA
Charley wrote:
Primal wrote:
Charly, I didn't do what you mentioned. I did say "some" places of Africa are modern and "some" other places are not.

How is that a sweeping generalization of an entire people or culture?

My point was that education would stop the act of raping to cure aids. Rape for sexual urge or compulsion would still be around and it is in every corner of the planet. However, rape to cure aids is pretty unique to some areas of the planet which are stuck years in the past and haven't caught up to modern times.

Race is irrelevant and had nothing to do with my comments.


Primal, From your original post, where you say "...lots of places over there are 1000 years behind us in the evolution and growth of civilization," it does seem to me that you are making a generalisation about a type of culture. Later, you clearly say "...look at Afghanistan they are also stuck 1000 years behind the rest of us." Isn't it a sweeping statement to refer to a whole country like that? Are there not so-called honour killings on the streets of the UK and US?

It would have been perfectly reasonable for you to say that some of the people of these countries need better education (just as is the case in most countries), but I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that a "civilisation" is less advanced, just because it differs from our own.

Also, I think TheChrisJ's post hits the nail on the head, when he points out the error of grouping a culture's religious acts with abhorrent crimes (those crimes may well be because of a lack of education, or just because there are nasty people that will take what they want, and use any excuse to justify it). What I'm saying is that it's a mistake to pin it all on a culture.

I've neither the time nor inclination to get into a long, heated, philosophical debate with you Primal, because I doubt that my observations will alter your perspective anyway. And, indeed, you are entitled to hold your opinion. However, I hope at least that you've been able to grasp my point; if not, then my apologies for not being able to make it in such a way that you can understand.

If you do have a mind that's open to learning more, then may I suggest that you take a trip to your local bookseller, where you'll find a wealth of material on Cultural Relativism. C.



Seriously? You felt a need to insult my intelligence? Are you a spokesperson for the politically correct or is that just a weekend job?



In order to know virtue, you must first become acquainted with vice.
- Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade


En vis mann slår aldri en hund i klubben med en stokk, fordi hunden vil vende rundt og biter mannens ballene av.
TheChrisJ
Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2009 8:35:22 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/13/2009
Posts: 315
Charley wrote:
The official statistics do support DB's contention that South Africa is an extremely dangerous place:

Rapes (per capita)

# 1 South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people
# 2 Seychelles: 0.788294 per 1,000 people
# 3 Australia: 0.777999 per 1,000 people
# 4 Montserrat: 0.749384 per 1,000 people
# 5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people
# 6 Jamaica: 0.476608 per 1,000 people
# 7 Zimbabwe: 0.457775 per 1,000 people
# 8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people
# 9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people
# 10 Iceland: 0.246009 per 1,000 people
# 11 Papua New Guinea: 0.233544 per 1,000 people
# 12 New Zealand: 0.213383 per 1,000 people
# 13 United Kingdom: 0.142172 per 1,000 people
# 14 Spain: 0.140403 per 1,000 people
# 15 France: 0.139442 per 1,000 people
# 16 Korea, South: 0.12621 per 1,000 people
# 17 Mexico: 0.122981 per 1,000 people
# 18 Norway: 0.120836 per 1,000 people
# 19 Costa Rica: 0.118277 per 1,000 people
# 20 Venezuela: 0.115507 per 1,000 people

Surprising to Australia in third, and Canada in fifth.

Murders (per capita)

# 1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
# 2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
# 3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000 people
# 4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000 people
# 5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000 people
# 6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000 people
# 7 Estonia: 0.107277 per 1,000 people
# 8 Latvia: 0.10393 per 1,000 people
# 9 Lithuania: 0.102863 per 1,000 people
# 10 Belarus: 0.0983495 per 1,000 people
# 11 Ukraine: 0.094006 per 1,000 people
# 12 Papua New Guinea: 0.0838593 per 1,000 people
# 13 Kyrgyzstan: 0.0802565 per 1,000 people
# 14 Thailand: 0.0800798 per 1,000 people
# 15 Moldova: 0.0781145 per 1,000 people
# 16 Zimbabwe: 0.0749938 per 1,000 people
# 17 Seychelles: 0.0739025 per 1,000 people
# 18 Zambia: 0.070769 per 1,000 people
# 19 Costa Rica: 0.061006 per 1,000 people
# 20 Poland: 0.0562789 per 1,000 people
# 21 Georgia: 0.0511011 per 1,000 people
# 22 Uruguay: 0.045082 per 1,000 people
# 23 Bulgaria: 0.0445638 per 1,000 people
# 24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
# 25 Armenia: 0.0425746 per 1,000 people
# 26 India: 0.0344083 per 1,000 people
# 27 Yemen: 0.0336276 per 1,000 people
# 28 Dominica: 0.0289733 per 1,000 people
# 29 Azerbaijan: 0.0285642 per 1,000 people
# 30 Finland: 0.0283362 per 1,000 people


You learn something new everyday. Like I had no idea countries named Azerbaijan, Seychelles, Moldova, Kyrgyzstan, Belarus, Montserrat, and I hope Dominica is actually The Dominican Republic, or that's 7 countries, at least, that I never knew existed.

Forget who you thought I was, I'm The Chris J bitch!
Guest
Posted: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:16:36 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 470,082
thats awful and sick...and just down right disturbing
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