I agree that a lot of the anger is over his callousness and his delivery but honestly this whole clothe the homeless campaign is despicable. It's spiteful and exploits the homeless simply so that some hollywood hipster and his followers can childishly stick it to some douche bag that people should pay little attention too. I have bought A&F and Hollister (they're the same brand) clothes for years, personally I like the way they fit me and I like a lot of their designs. I'm sure most plus sized women don't fit into clothes offered by dozens of other brands like Juicy, Louis, Burberry, even Forever 21, who segregates larger clothes to an entirely different store. I do not think its right that people exploit the homeless in order to "punish" a man for being upfront about his business decisions.

I'm not sure I agree with you that this is exploitation of the homeless. To me it seems more like self-righteous indignation, turned into action to "make things right." This is a brand that publicly admits it would rather burn its clothing than see it in the hands of the less fortunate. For those who live and work among the less fortunate, that is an extremely callous thought. Maybe again the tone is wrong, but what's wrong with giving this clothing to those who need it? Who knows, maybe if the company gets used to seeing its clothing on the less fortunate, it will be more willing to donate in the future.

This is an old story which has seen new light lately. In 2006 the CEO of Abercrombie and Fitch made comments about how his company does not cater too fat people because he doesn't want them seen wearing his clothes. The company apparently also would rather destroy damaged clothing than see it be given to shelters and worn by homeless people.

According to the Huffington Post, the news of this stance has seen the brand take a huge hit to its public perception.

Abercrombie Reputation Takes a Hit

Forbes sees it another way...claiming that while it may cost A&F a few customers, the statements will actually increase the loyalty of A&F's current customers who now more than ever will feel as if they are part of the "cool group."

Perverse Brilliance

Unless this #Fitchthehomeless campaign stops that, of course. The stated goal of the campaign is to make A&F the number one apparel of the homeless:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/O95DBxnXiSo

So, what say you lush? Is this a horrible, elitist, exclusionary tactic, or just maintaining a strong brand image? Does it change the way you look at the company, or whether you will purchase from it?

If Obama is right of center, then I'm the Dalai Lama.


Not sure about the rest of what you said, but this, I do have perspective on. If you transplanted Obama into the country to your north, many of his policies would probably be too right wing for our Conservative Party, the party of the right wing in Canada. His health care plan especially comes to mind. The Conservatives would never risk suggesting something as weak as that, it would leave them forever labeled as the party which killed national health care in this country.

I never said "halfway decent". You did. I said "halfway competent". A vital difference which you're not understanding, either by accident, or deliberately. Which is it? And the point, which you're pretending to be too obtuse to understand, is that if it only takes a little learning to circumvent a magazine capacity ban, then what good does that ban do? None at all.

No, I never said "all people who fire guns automatically know how to bend metal to exact specifications", either. You're pretty good at trying to put words in other people's mouths. The point is, when a man introduces himself as a person technically competent in firearms, and I can prove he's not, he should either disqualify himself from the argument, or admit that he's lacking as any kind of expert.

The bridge I'm trying to build is to get people to think for a moment, about just what the laws they're proposing will actually do to fight crime. So far, the answer is nothing. If anyone can come up with a new law that actually will help, I'm all ears.

It's called paraphrasing Nudes. I had your exact quote right above it, so nobody was going to not know what you actually said. To me, "decent," and "competent," are synonyms. If they are not to you, then simply replace the word "competent" in my statement, and you will see what I was trying to say. But then, you'd have to actually argue my point, and not my words, and you don't want that.

On the second point, this is what you said:


Now I know that you're not being truthful about being a "gun person." Because a "gun person" knows that a magazine is just bent sheet metal, and it doesn't take any kind of special machine to do it. Fuck, I could do it right here with a pair of tin snips and a vice. Only someone equally as unlearned about guns as you are would take your word for anything.

I've never seen a magazine, so I can't say whether you can actually see how it is made, or whether you just see the outside of it. In that, I'm at a disadvantage. But, whether or not you can see that it is "just bent sheet metal," that still does not mean that someone knows how to bend sheet metal to specific specifications. (A magazine, which will fit his or her particular gun) If I take my computer apart, I can see that the circuit board is "just metal laid out on plastic," but it doesn't mean that I would know how to actually make it. So does that mean that I don't know how to use a computer? You may think that you have proven that he knows nothing about gun use. To me, at best, you have proven he doesn't know anything about gun manufacturing. And he never said he knew how to make a gun, or a magazine, or even ammunition.

And the last point, I don't even know what to say. You want to make people think, to consider the opposite side, but refuse to do the same yourself. You shoot down every attempt at a compromise, admit that limiting magazine sizes would delay someone, either by forcing them to create a larger magazine themselves, or by forcing them to change magazines more often; and yet, still don't believe that there is a benefit to that. I asked you what you thought was a step in the right direction, as a way to help us understand how we could bridge the gap between us. That's always a good way to get a compromise started, if the other side is willing to move. Which you are not. I shouldn't have even responded to this, knowing that you are only looking to tell people they are stupid, naive, or flat out lying, when they have a viewpoint that's different than your own. But hey, I'm stubborn and reckless sometimes, and figure I just might be able to bite the troll before he bites me.

Nudie: In all reality, what good would this do? Any halfway competent sheet metal worker can turn out a magazine that will hold any number of rounds in a matter of a couple hours. And even if they couldn't, how long does it take you to change a magazine? A couple seconds, if you're slow about it. So any potential rescuer responding to an emergency would have a handicap that the attacker wouldn't have - he followed the law and only had five rounds, whild the attacker had as many as he wished. How fair is that?



Yoda:
So we are going to let him run around with a clip that holds an excessive amount of ammo? Or do we put him off for at least a couple hours? Matter of hours can be the difference in a school full of kids and a empty school. Plus, unless they have the machine to do it at their house, you would figure the owner of the company will wonder why there was a shortage of production in his area and come asking questions.




Now I know that you're not being truthful about being a "gun person." Because a "gun person" knows that a magazine is just bent sheet metal, and it doesn't take any kind of special machine to do it. Fuck, I could do it right here with a pair of tin snips and a vice. Only someone equally as unlearned about guns as you are would take your word for anything.



I'm not a gun person, but I have been around a few shops in my life. First off, I find it intriguing that you went from saying it would take a "halfway decent metal worker a few hours," to saying that you could do it right here, right now with tin snips, and a vice. If a half-way decent metal worker is going to take a couple hours to do it, I'm assuming the bends and cuts have to be done right, or else the ammunition will get stuck. Secondly, even if "tin snips and a vice" is all the equipment you need to do it, how many people actually have those? So, as Yoda mentions, they would have to go out and buy that, and then develop the skills to complete a "couple hours" task.

After talking about that, I have one big question: What does anyone's knowledge and skill in bending metal have to do with whether they are a gun person? Are you saying that all people who fire guns automatically know how to bend metal to exact specifications? That seems like a pretty big leap of logic.

And given the ferocity with which you jumped all over that compromise, I have to ask: How exactly are you trying to bridge the gap between gun advocates and those who want tighter controls? Is there one suggestion you have seen from the other side that you would be willing to consider?

I believe I'm failing, but at least I'm trying to bridge some part of the divide between "them" and "us".

Well, there's something we agree on. But think about this: Before calling anyone who disagrees with you a hypocrite, how about considering why they disagree with you? Or possibly even consider the fact that they may have fully considered your argument, but still prefer their opinion? If you want people to respect, and fully consider your viewpoint, you have to respect, and fully consider theirs. This article did not do that. As LadyX mentions in her post, a lot of that has to do with tone. It was very condescending and derogatory to anyone who wants stricter gun laws.

Next time you want to educate someone on a viewpoint they don't agree with, try sticking more with facts, and ideally, use an article that acknowledges the validity of the other sides concerns. It will be far more likely to be accepted.

It's a lot easier to bridge the divide when you lay the stones, rather than throw them at the other side.

This is not a contest. It's an attempt to see if even one of you can actually try to see someone else's point of view. And so far, you're all failing. I'm very disappointed in you all.

Read LadyX's post. She did concede some of the points had merit. To me, that's clearly seeing someone else's viewpoint. On the other hand, if you seriously saw this essay as a balanced take on the situation, maybe you need to look in the mirror when claiming someone is not trying to see someone else's view.

How exactly did you expect an essay which continuously and repeatedly brands the opposing viewpoint as unworthy of trust, to aid in anyone being more likely to see the other side?

I'm having a hard time believing this isn't just another attempt by you to troll those who want stricter gun laws.

I think the employers of the illegal immigrants should have to pay for the medical expensess of these people. After all, if the employers made sure that the people they were hiring had the proper work permits this wouldn't happen.

The employers think they get a cheap ride by hiring undocumented workers so why shouldn't they foot the bill for these workers when the workers need medical care?

From what I understand in the original post, the employers were trying to pay. They paid for this employee to have a company health plan, but the hospital didn't believe the insurance company would ever actually pay out on that policy.

There definitely seems to be a lot of questionable activity going on. But for the recount practices, I don't know what is weird in your country. If the government/incumbent normally has the power to have a recount, then it is weird that they would waver on it. But, it would also make me wonder how the opposition would ever win if the incumbent had that much power over the vote process. In Canada, elections are run by Elections Canada, with specific rules laid out for when a recount happens, and its up to Elections Canada to enforce the rules. Any party can petition them to do a recount but the incumbent party, at least in theory, has no more power to demand a recount than the challengers do. It doesn't sound like the CNE has that sort of autonomy, but there seems to be a growing international awareness that might force them to do a full recount.

Hopefully this all gets sorted out soon enough. It seems like the longer the results are in question, the more greater the risk of violence, and that's not good for anyone.

From what I've read, there is already a policy in place for an automatic recount of 54% of the votes, which the electoral commission says it did. How would a recount of the remaining 46% catch enough to make a difference? Not trying to be critical, just trying to get an understanding of your election/recount rules and procedures.

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