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niceguy89
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 12:07:52 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/16/2009
Posts: -24
Location: Texas, United States
The problem with typing online or phone texting? There is not an easy way to show non-verbal communication. I thrive on non-verbal communication. It shows more about a person that words can not. It is my own jedi mind trick. For Example:

"Being gay is wrong."

Now a lot of people will read that and think many things about me. Most likely that I am an asshole with limited brain cells. Which I may be, just not for that statement. Because what I couldn't say with my hands and tone of voice and sarcastic smirk is lost on these black and white words.
I do belive that statement. I just can't express to what degree. Not without typing a hundered words to explain my single thought. Which I hate. I hate typing long drawn out explanations that are being ripped apart by someone or a number of people that simply missed my main idea. Being bad with grammar and spelling does not help. It takes away from the point being debated.
Which is why people's reactions to my statements always pisses me off. My past rants caused so much heat. I'm afraid to talk about more complicated issues. So now I just sit in my cave writting rants and blogs that will never see the light of day. Waiting for the chance one of my dumbass friends puts down the x-box. Then asks me my ideas on important "big brother" type stuff.
overmykneenow
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 3:08:20 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,405
Location: United Kingdom
Unfortunately non-verbal communication is pretty much all we have in an online environment, but I don't think it's the route of your problems. You may be able to express yourself better face to face, or at least not get the level of vociferous reactions you get here but that might be down to the fact that the people you talk to in real life are your friends and share your rather limited world view.

You look like you're a big guy, how much of your "non-verbal communication" is actually just physical dominance? Whether it's intentional or subconscious, that won't work here - you'll have to try something else. It's certainly difficult to imagine which exact hand gestures or sarcastic smirk you'd be employing to enhance your statement that "being gay is wrong"

You seem to come across as someone pretty much entrenched in black/white thinking: there doesn't seem to be any middle ground, either someone is with you or against you. You see any opposition as an attack on you rather than on your opinion. It seems to point to what could be a "borderline" personality. Then there's the paranoia.

All in all, it makes debate a little tricky. Of course most of us are aware that opinions aren't facts. Opinions can't be wrong - they can be misguided, horrifically ill-informed but not wrong - they're opinions not facts. Other opinions exist, it doesn't make them wrong.

Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

Why not read some stories instead

NEW! Want a quick read for your coffee break? Why not try this... Flash Erotica: Scrubber
niceguy89
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 4:27:07 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/16/2009
Posts: -24
Location: Texas, United States
overmykneenow wrote:
Unfortunately non-verbal communication is pretty much all we have in an online environment, but I don't think it's the route of your problems. You may be able to express yourself better face to face, or at least not get the level of vociferous reactions you get here but that might be down to the fact that the people you talk to in real life are your friends and share your rather limited world view.

You look like you're a big guy, how much of your "non-verbal communication" is actually just physical dominance? Whether it's intentional or subconscious, that won't work here - you'll have to try something else. It's certainly difficult to imagine which exact hand gestures or sarcastic smirk you'd be employing to enhance your statement that "being gay is wrong"

You seem to come across as someone pretty much entrenched in black/white thinking: there doesn't seem to be any middle ground, either someone is with you or against you. You see any opposition as an attack on you rather than on your opinion. It seems to point to what could be a "borderline" personality. Then there's the paranoia.

All in all, it makes debate a little tricky. Of course most of us are aware that opinions aren't facts. Opinions can't be wrong - they can be misguided, horrifically ill-informed but not wrong - they're opinions not facts. Other opinions exist, it doesn't make them wrong.


Thank you for posting. If half of what you said is true then my point is made. Also I must re think my posts with that bolded quote in mind.

If anybody that knew me heard I was using my size to get my way they would laugh out loud. Now I know that my size can be scary. Which is why I had to learn how to be as nice as a little bunny. bunny Of course I can not prove any of this. Nor do I expect anybody to belive me.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 4:55:06 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 821,122
The thing that online communication requires is context. You can't just say stuff out of context and expect people not to react, should they find it offensive. That's why people use quotes, emoticons and other punctuation tricks. Sarcasm, unfortunately, is lost on the internet without clear context and intent. You could follow your "being gay is wrong" statement up with "...not!" which would go a little way to injecting some humour and sarcasm, but ultimately, unless you know someone and have spoken to them offline or on cam, it seems sarcasm is not a good idea. Maybe if you are frequently sarcastic, you should put that in your profile, so you may be better understood.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 7:26:37 AM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 7,218
Location: Your dirty fantasy
It's frustrating isn't it.

I could, for example, take you into parts of my city where you'd get plenty of "non-verbal communication" in response to your statement.

Kidding, of course. We all know you didn't really mean that.

Most people drop loaded statements like that within the context of a conversation, and then follow it up with an emoticon to show it was meant as sarcasm or as a joke. If you are anti-emoticon, then do it like this: Cause as those types usually say, "Being gay is wrong." *smirks and rolls eyes*

or some variation of it. Putting it in quotes means that you, yourself, aren't really saying it. And then add some kind on nonverbal action hint afterward. People will get the gist of it, especially if it's in the context of a conversation they're either having with you or reading through. Yes, it takes a few seconds longer to add a couple of extra words to clarify your intentions, but that's the way it goes with texting and internet communication.

If it's not meant in sarcasm, then yeah, you need to elaborate when issuing a controversial statement in a public domain. I'll bet you'd have to do this even in live social conversations unless you are strictly talking with people that think exactly like you. But as you said - if typing 100 words is overly frustrating, then it's best to keep your rants private. If you're dying to 'talk it out' with people and say you spend your time writing all these rants and blogs, I would assume they're longer than one sentence anyway though, so I find your whole dilemma somewhat... odd.


niceguy89
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 7:43:44 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/16/2009
Posts: -24
Location: Texas, United States
Run
GingerKitty wrote:
The thing that online communication requires is context. You can't just say stuff out of context and expect people not to react, should they find it offensive. That's why people use quotes, emoticons and other punctuation tricks. Sarcasm, unfortunately, is lost on the internet without clear context and intent. You could follow your "being gay is wrong" statement up with "...not!" which would go a little way to injecting some humour and sarcasm, but ultimately, unless you know someone and have spoken to them offline or on cam, it seems sarcasm is not a good idea. Maybe if you are frequently sarcastic, you should put that in your profile, so you may be better understood.


Context is needed for a complete thought. However with my computer-writing education expressing emotions with punctuation tricks is very limited. So if I were to type,

" I hate cats! Not their playfullness, independnce, or attraction to laser pointers. I hate the watery eyes, itchy throat, and runny nose they give me." One might understand that I hate cats but not really cause I just have allergies. Which would be wrong, nobody would have heard the evil in my voice when I said laser pointers. As in seeing cats hurt themselves over chasing a laser is a sadistic little treat for me. ;p

So now people that love cats would read that and respond with something pro-cat or anti-niceguy89. Without fully understanding my hatred for all things "hair ball". Now that I think about it. It is not lack of non-verbal communicaton. It is the increase of thumb wars I have to go through to make up for it.
niceguy89
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 8:29:18 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/16/2009
Posts: -24
Location: Texas, United States
Dancing_Doll wrote:
It's frustrating isn't it.

I could, for example, take you into parts of my city where you'd get plenty of "non-verbal communication" in response to your statement.

Kidding, of course. We all know you didn't really mean that.

Most people drop loaded statements like that within the context of a conversation, and then follow it up with an emoticon to show it was meant as sarcasm or as a joke. If you are anti-emoticon, then do it like this: Cause as those types usually say, "Being gay is wrong." *smirks and rolls eyes*

or some variation of it. Putting it in quotes means that you, yourself, aren't really saying it. And then add some kind on nonverbal action hint afterward. People will get the gist of it, especially if it's in the context of a conversation they're either having with you or reading through. Yes, it takes a few seconds longer to add a couple of extra words to clarify your intentions, but that's the way it goes with texting and internet communication.

If it's not meant in sarcasm, then yeah, you need to elaborate when issuing a controversial statement in a public domain. I'll bet you'd have to do this even in live social conversations unless you are strictly talking with people that think exactly like you. But as you said - if typing 100 words is overly frustrating, then it's best to keep your rants private. If you're dying to 'talk it out' with people and say you spend your time writing all these rants and blogs, I would assume they're longer than one sentence anyway though, so I find your whole dilemma somewhat... odd.


Alright so maybe I misspoke about what is bothering me. All I know is that if I had had the same debate wiith the same people offline (talking aboout my past rants). I could have saved myself a lot of cussing and anger.

Also the whole gay example was not a good thing to just say without context. I thought I could prove a point but it was lost in my rush to vent.

For the record I did say that in public. In front of a gay person and my entire church. He later thanked me for speaking my mind and being honest. It was also followed by my exact thoughts of why being gay is wrong (for me) and just how wrong my church(at the time) was for trying to change the man's way of life.

Now that I have a clear head. I can state my real problem. It's when people miss-understand my intent. Then sand bag me with a insult that had nothing to do with my original thought. Given my understanding of online texting most of it can be traced back to my lack of skill in proper communication.
SamBrown
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 8:44:59 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 9/25/2012
Posts: 48
Location: United Kingdom
Some of the people on this site are gifted in their clarity of thought and ability to put that down in writing that others like you and I can only dream of. That's life and we needn't try to compete.

If I have a point I want to put over and am unsure how it is going to read once it is on the screen I type it into a word document, leave it alone for a couple of hours minimum, go back and re-read it and if it still reads okay then and only then copy and paste it up to the site

Also <and here you would benefit if you could see me waving my hands and hear as I change the tone of my voice and adopt a sarcastic smirk> you would probably get away with a little more if you, and I mean this constructively not with any malice or offence, smiled a little and showed your gentler 'nice guy' persona in your avatar picture. Just a thought
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 8:59:23 AM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 7,218
Location: Your dirty fantasy
niceguy89 wrote:


For the record I did say that in public. In front of a gay person and my entire church. He later thanked me for speaking my mind and being honest. It was also followed by my exact thoughts of why being gay is wrong (for me) and just how wrong my church(at the time) was for trying to change the man's way of life.


Yeah, but for the record - a conflicted gay man in front of a church that he wants to belong to despite his sexual orientation isn't going to get openly pissed off at your statement no matter how well explained your thoughts are behind it. The power shift is completely fucked up there, so how you are received depends greatly on your audience. It doesn't mean that you expressed yourself any better. Just that the audience was predisposed to reacting in a certain way - accepting and considering your statements. You could argue the same thing (verbatim) with a different audience and get completely crucified for it or incite a much more intense debate.

When you make a statement of something being 'wrong' or something that you 'hate' - obviously you're going to get opinions to the contrary. You have an opinion. Others have an opinion. One will incite the other. As another example, if someone said "Being fat is wrong." but they don't follow it up with it being wrong because of impending health issues, quality of life related to fitness level, and healthcare taxes that have to go to paying for obesity related illnesses/issues, then people are likely to take it in a very negative bigoted way. They may still have great offense to the elaborated opinion but it will likely evoke discussion rather than a knee-jerk negative reaction to a black and white statement.

niceguy89 wrote:

Now that I have a clear head. I can state my real problem. It's when people miss-understand my intent. Then sand bag me with a insult that had nothing to do with my original thought. Given my understanding of online texting most of it can be traced back to my lack of skill in proper communication.


Going back to your original statement about cats:

"I hate cats! Not their playfullness, independnce, or attraction to laser pointers. I hate the watery eyes, itchy throat, and runny nose they give me."

All you have to say, to get your original point across is this:

"I hate cats! Not their playfullness, independnce, or tendency to injure themselves chasing laser pointers. I hate the watery eyes, itchy throat, and runny nose they give me."

That's just five extra words. Not much additional effort. So you're right - it's definitely communication thing that can be easily solved by choosing the right words and phrasing.


Magical_felix
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 10:04:11 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,927
Location: California
niceguy89 wrote:

"Being gay is wrong."

Now a lot of people will read that and think many things about me. Most likely that I am an asshole with limited brain cells. Which I may be



I actually thought that BEFORE I even read your last pearl of wisdom. No joke.

niceguy89 wrote:


I do belive that statement. I just can't express to what degree. Not without typing a hundered words to explain my single thought. Which I hate. I hate typing long drawn out explanations that are being ripped apart by someone or a number of people that simply missed my main idea. Being bad with grammar and spelling does not help. It takes away from the point being debated.


So you say something ridiculous then your defense is that you can't articulate a proper argument in favor of your statement? Your argument is that you're not smart?

Ok.

niceguy89 wrote:


So now I just sit in my cave writting rants and blogs that will never see the light of day.


Writing*

We are on a writing site. For fuck's sake. If you are going to spell a word right, at least spell that one right.

niceguy89
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 2:25:13 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/16/2009
Posts: -24
Location: Texas, United States
SamBrown wrote:
Some of the people on this site are gifted in their clarity of thought and ability to put that down in writing that others like you and I can only dream of. That's life and we needn't try to compete.

If I have a point I want to put over and am unsure how it is going to read once it is on the screen I type it into a word document, leave it alone for a couple of hours minimum, go back and re-read it and if it still reads okay then and only then copy and paste it up to the site

Also <and here you would benefit if you could see me waving my hands and hear as I change the tone of my voice and adopt a sarcastic smirk> you would probably get away with a little more if you, and I mean this constructively not with any malice or offence, smiled a little and showed your gentler 'nice guy' persona in your avatar picture. Just a thought

This is good advice. I have done this for some of my longer rants. It has helped me keep in check a lot of mistakes and anger.
My picture was not made to be scary. Lol I was going for a kinda "question everything" look.
niceguy89
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 2:41:03 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/16/2009
Posts: -24
Location: Texas, United States
Magical_felix wrote:


Writing*

We are on a writing site. For fuck's sake. If you are going to spell a word right, at least spell that one right.


wEll felix if yous is gonna jugde only my miscakes and hatr me for not being as bookin learnd as yous is.then I reckon ain't mutch can be done.

However if you want to thick of me ass an a_hole because I've dissagreeed with you on one issue. I'd like think that is shallow thinkin'. Now I may have called you and others names or reacted out of anger. bUT I ain't never actually thought you to be bad person over our dissagreements.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 7:29:19 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,866
Location: Cakeland, United States
niceguy89 wrote:


Context is needed for a complete thought. However with my computer-writing education expressing emotions with punctuation tricks is very limited. So if I were to type,

" I hate cats! Not their playfullness, independnce, or attraction to laser pointers. I hate the watery eyes, itchy throat, and runny nose they give me." One might understand that I hate cats but not really cause I just have allergies. Which would be wrong, nobody would have heard the evil in my voice when I said laser pointers. As in seeing cats hurt themselves over chasing a laser is a sadistic little treat for me. ;p

So now people that love cats would read that and respond with something pro-cat or anti-niceguy89. Without fully understanding my hatred for all things "hair ball". Now that I think about it. It is not lack of non-verbal communicaton. It is the increase of thumb wars I have to go through to make up for it.


Yanno... You seem to share a lot of the same basic sadistic fetishes, religious/sexual angst, communication issues, being-understood-clearly-quirks and anti-social characteristics with a former resident of this world... Jeffrey Dahmer.

More than a few people thought he was a really nice guy. Then Dahmer had a few of them over for dinner.

Maybe a website which is primarily devoted to clarity of comprehension, above almost every thing else - is not the location to test out your theories about non-verbal, non gesticulating communication? Especially since you're admittedly suffering from knowing how to utilize a thesaurus, dictionary or a freaking keyboard..?

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
niceguy89
Posted: Thursday, February 7, 2013 11:41:28 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/16/2009
Posts: -24
Location: Texas, United States
WellMadeMale wrote:


Yanno... You seem to share a lot of the same basic sadistic fetishes, religious/sexual angst, communication issues, being-understood-clearly-quirks and anti-social characteristics with a former resident of this world... Jeffrey Dahmer.

More than a few people thought he was a really nice guy. Then Dahmer had a few of them over for dinner.

Maybe a website which is primarily devoted to clarity of comprehension, above almost every thing else - is not the location to test out your theories about non-verbal, non gesticulating communication? Especially since you're admittedly suffering from knowing how to utilize a thesaurus, dictionary or a freaking keyboard..?


Alright now, that is going to fucking far. Just because I don't agree with you on gun control? So what if I think it is funny to see small animals go ape-shit over a point of light. You are going to compare me to a monster? You know nothing about me! Except for few controversial viewpoints that I have. I am trying to be honest about my thoughts. I am trying to be respectfull of others. I haven't said the people are wrong. Not that may way is the only way! I am just expressing my personal opinons. All of ya'll "educated" people are the ones twisting it. Making a simple thought into some kind of dramatic overreation. I am not saying I can't use a computer. Not that literary aids confuse me. All I'm saying is that fuckers like you always take what I say to a whole new level. It is not your fault that I can't make myself better understood online. However I will call you all sort of names if you continue to insult me with such disgusting accusations.director

The whole reason I started this thread was to express an idea. I am better at face to face communication than online typing or cell phone texting. It was my way of asking people not to overreact to my hair-brained theories and posts.
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