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Should kids in the untied states have to say the pledge of alligence in school Options · View
RobHarper
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 9:12:35 PM

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No, Americans have the freedom to refuse to pledge. But that freedom should be the reason that you do pledge! We take this freedom for granted. In what other country can the losing side of a civil war display their flag in public and not be executed? You should pledge, but because you want to. Take out the "under God" part though, that wasn't in there when the pledge was first written.
Buz
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 10:01:30 PM

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The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855–1931), who was a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist, and the cousin of socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy (1850–1898).

In Nazi Germany all citizens were required to swear a pledge of allegiance to Adolph Hitler, the Fuhrer. personally.

After the American War Between the States (1861-1855) the former soldiers of the Confederate States were required to swear an oath of allegiance to the federal government that just won the war, making it a much more powerful than it had been before the war.

The US Constitution does not require American school kids to say the Pledge of Allegiance. I would be opposed to such an amendment.

The US government seems more adept at taking away freedoms and civil liberties from its citizens rather than protecting freedoms and liberties of its citizens.

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
— Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence & 3rd US President)

The US Federal government DOES NOT fear its citizens!

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
— Thomas Jefferson

KatR
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2013 10:11:33 PM

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I think that is good but far less important than teaching them HOW TO THINK! How to read, analyze, and reach intelligent conclusions about things that affect their lives.
kylie_kained
Posted: Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:31:36 AM

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Even though I'm a Brit I would suggest not If the child is born in the USA but any outsiders that take up residence yes. It should be down to the parents to instill the pride of the Country and most would I should think.

margali
Posted: Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:38:27 AM

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Reciting words without an understanding of their meaning is a mindless activity. Children are capable of understanding far more than most give them credit for. When I was young, we knew what we were saying and it had meaning to us. There was a sense of pride in belonging to something bigger than ourselves and that we were a part of. I see nothing wrong with children reciting the pledge of allegiance. Just teach the meaning along with the words.
Jack_42
Posted: Saturday, March 23, 2013 2:52:09 AM

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I feel that there is no moral reason for instilling patriotic pride in anyone. The only reason is practical - that is control. I understand pride in something you have personally achieved but pride in the past acts of people and governments many of which are questionable to say the least has a lot of ethical questions attached to it. There is also the aspect that the kid didn't have any control over his birth so where is all the pride coming from? I, with very mixed antecedents would not have been born unless WWII happened - am I seriously expected to be pleased about that nice little piece of patriotic fervour by all concerned or should it really be indifference as it wasn't my fault?
TxPrincess
Posted: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:00:32 PM

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RobHarper wrote:
No, Americans have the freedom to refuse to pledge. But that freedom should be the reason that you do pledge! We take this freedom for granted. In what other country can the losing side of a civil war display their flag in public and not be executed? You should pledge, but because you want to. Take out the "under God" part though, that wasn't in there when the pledge was first written.


I agree we as adult have the freedom to refuse the pledge. Children on the other hand should know how to be loyal and respectful, before they are allowed to exercise there freedoms.

Ruthie
Posted: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:39:03 PM

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Which states are untied?

http://








Ruthie
Posted: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:44:33 PM

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Why not a pledge to uphold the constitution? That seems more appropriate to me. Shouldn't children be taught to respect the document that guarantees our freedom, one of which is to not have to take oaths?

http://








Guest
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 9:57:17 AM

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Don4poon wrote:
I fought for this country and held in my arms my friends that died for it!!!! If you don't like the way this country is then you are welcomed to get the HELL out!!!
But if you are here and not a United States citizen you have no right to criticize the way we do our things.
But yes I believe ever child regardless of what country they live in should learn to respect and support their country no matter how they feel about it.
That start with learning their national anthem.


The way we do things in this country is not requiring students to say the Pledge of Allegiance. West Virginia State Board of Education v Barnette: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

If you don't like it, get the HELL out.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 9:59:08 AM

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TxPrincess wrote:
I am gonna go with HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!! Those in Texas should say the State Pledge tooo and dare I say a prayer.

Give the kids a since of value for the Country, State, and God. They need to learn respect and that it means something to be a citizen and that it is a privilege not a right.


I agree. The kids should have to say a prayer to Allah every morning, and learn a sense of value for Allah. Oh, wait, you meant your god, didn't you? Which god should you force students of every religion to pray to, exactly? There's several thousand, at least.
clum
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:08:56 AM

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TxPrincess wrote:
I agree we as adult have the freedom to refuse the pledge. Children on the other hand should know how to be loyal and respectful, before they are allowed to exercise there freedoms.


Wow.

ByronLord
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 12:08:29 PM

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MatthewVett wrote:


I agree. The kids should have to say a prayer to Allah every morning, and learn a sense of value for Allah. Oh, wait, you meant your god, didn't you? Which god should you force students of every religion to pray to, exactly? There's several thousand, at least.


Don't forget the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!!

Tranquil
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 1:29:08 PM

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From an outside prospective....

I find it rather touching your children say the pledge of alligence in school. its a bonding moment for a group of people whom will need it later in life.

America is a world in its own right. Half your schools teach with World maps so out of proportion to show how big America is that you leave other countries off.
a third of the country doesn't even know more then a handful of other countries names. The backlash towards Americans world wide is rather sad but it is not a small contingent either, and grows when the USA Government decide to throw their weight around, as well as Hollywood portraying other countries incorrectly and like cowards like the Argo movie did doesn't help. and for some reason America can't seem to apologies to the outside world.

Its a good thing for Americans to be proud of their country. to feel that bond of brotherhood and sisterhood. I say keep it up, as the world becomes more a cyber world with business, technology, privatization, It will hold your country together longer then others that will fall apart.

WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 2:36:40 PM

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I say we enforce brainwashing as soon as fucking possible. Should be playing on all speakers inside every delivery room in the 50 United States and every single one of those countries where we've invaded & installed our own puppet dictators.

Have a US military base on your soil? You better know that pledge of allegiance to the US flag and know when to wrap yourself in it to advance your own ideology (or ours).

A year after the time you're yabbering Mama & Dada & poopoo - you need to be coherently pronouncing syllables & reciting that sacred pledge every morning when you wake up. If you see someone stepping out of line or rebelling - stone that person!

Parents these days... Embarassed



Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
CurlyGirly
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:07:17 PM

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Location: United States
Tranquil wrote:
From an outside prospective....

I find it rather touching your children say the pledge of alligence in school. its a bonding moment for a group of people whom will need it later in life.

America is a world in its own right. Half your schools teach with World maps so out of proportion to show how big America is that you leave other countries off.
a third of the country doesn't even know more then a handful of other countries names. The backlash towards Americans world wide is rather sad but it is not a small contingent either, and grows when the USA Government decide to throw their weight around, as well as Hollywood portraying other countries incorrectly and like cowards like the Argo movie did doesn't help. and for some reason America can't seem to apologies to the outside world.

Its a good thing for Americans to be proud of their country. to feel that bond of brotherhood and sisterhood. I say keep it up, as the world becomes more a cyber world with business, technology, privatization, It will hold your country together longer then others that will fall apart.


And what exactly are we apologizing for? How far back do the grievances go? Does each individual American need to send an apology letter? Is it OK for the government to send one mass apology to the world? You can just fill in the blank where you think we've wronged you. Do you get to choose what/why we're apologizing? I'm pretty sure what you think we need to apologize for, someone else will thank us for. It's a no win situation.

Do I think this country is right or perfect all the time? No fucking way, but the America bashing gets old. evil4


As far as the OP, I'm a nostalgic and patriotic person. I like it. In fact the company I work for has us say the pledge before we start our annual meetings, which was this past weekend.
LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:23:50 PM

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CurlyGirly wrote:


And what exactly are we apologizing for? How far back do the grievances go? Does each individual American need to send an apology letter?


No worries, Curly. There's a form for this:


CurlyGirly
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:27:42 PM

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LadyX wrote:


No worries, Curly. There's a form for this:




Laughing Out Loud


Glad to know there's an official form.

Tranquil
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 5:10:04 PM

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Oh Wow,
My words where not written to insult or for you to take offence. It was a simple personal perspective from a non American. it was even positive in regards to the actual Ops question.

There are many instances that the USA has done things to hurt little countries such as mine. do these piss me off. why of course they do. However there is no denying the USA does do things to help little countries around the world. so yes it balance it out.

Do I believe my country has be hurt by the USA, yes originally, but a lot of good has come from the hurt. do we hold onto grievances in regards to these situations? hell no, we wouldn't be a country that move with the times if we did to survive. do I believe the USA holds grievances.. umm yes I do. as we are still paying for a decision from years ago. One we hold strong to. We still have sanctions on us because of it. but we work around them. Also I believe What was huge against us, was simply small fry to the USA and therefore they didn't really think of it again. a long grievance? hmm I wouldn't call this example a long term grievance rather that we are continually having to pay a new price in regards to the decision every time your terms change. As I said, we seem to be able to work around them when they are thrown at us.

Wikipedia Quote

"New Zealand is a signatory of the ANZUS treaty, a defence pact between it, Australia and the United States dating from 1951. After the 1986 anti-nuclear legislation that refused access of nuclear-powered or armed vessels to ports, the USA withdrew its obligations to New Zealand under ANZUS, and ANZUS exercises are now bi-lateral between Australia and the United States. Under anti-nuclear legislation, any ship must declare whether it is nuclear propelled or carrying nuclear weapons before entering New Zealand waters. Due to the US policy at that time of "neither confirm nor deny", ship visits ceased. Despite the Presidential Directive of 27 September 1991 that removed tactical nuclear weapons from U.S. surface ships, attack submarines, and naval aircraft,[60] ship visits have not resumed. Despite signs of rapprochement in recent years, military relationships with the US remain limited, although senior US officials have been complimentary about New Zealand's contributions to the Iraq[citation needed] and Afghanistan conflicts.[61] New Zealand retains a close bi-lateral defence relationship with Australia.

HMNZS Te Kaha and HMNZS Endeavour and the South Korean destroyer ROKS Choe Yeong at RIMPAC 2012
Due to New Zealand's antinuclear policy, defence cooperation with the U.S., including training exercises, has been significantly restricted since 1986, when the ANZUS treaty defence obligations to NZ were suspended by the USA. However, New Zealand and the USA remain 'very, very good friends'.[62] On 26 July 2008 during a visit to New Zealand, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice upgraded this status and said "New Zealand is now a friend and an ally".[63] The NZDF has served alongside NATO led forces in Afghanistan in recent times, and in 2004 the NZSAS was awarded a Presidential Unit Citation by US President George W Bush for "extraordinary heroism" in action."

Does this effect my friendship with friends I hold dear in the USA , Why no, no it does. Why would I want to that over a Government choice?





Tranquil
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:06:55 PM

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Oh and as for the apology i said American can't seem to give?

quote from channel 24 entertainment now .

{during Oscar media interviews last month, Affleck told reporters: "Let me just start by saying I love New Zealand, and I love New Zealanders." He added that "I think that it's tricky. You walk a fine line. You are doing a historical movie and naturally you have to make some creative choices about how you are going to condense this into a three-act structure."}


if a director from another country minimized a dangerous game of cat and mouse, calling your country cowards when in fact they took much risk in the things they could help with and did considering their limited power and protection, i am sure heads would role.

Just saying...


Guest
Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:28:56 PM

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YES, if they can't then why is the military fighting for freedom?
Guest
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:29:50 AM

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They defend everyone's right to speak and be I taught and went to school and never remember being Forced to bu twe all did it out of respect and if it would have gotten out we didn't I wouldn't have been able to sit for a week. Its all out of respect
Master_Jonathan
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 2:39:12 AM

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I can't believe this is even a question. HELL YES they should! And that's not the only thing they should be taught to respect!


Banner below is a clickable link!





LadyX
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 7:25:59 AM

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MasterJonathan wrote:
I can't believe this is even a question. HELL YES they should! And that's not the only thing they should be taught to respect!


Responses like these are kind of interesting, also I detect a bit of desperation. Is the fear that if kids aren't forced to recite a pledge every day, that they won't develop the same kind of blind loyalty that you grew up with? And if instilling a sense of respect in children is really the entire point, then repetition of the same two long sentences should be way, way down the list of priorities.
Guest
Posted: Friday, March 29, 2013 1:39:09 AM

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It really saddens me to see that this has even become something we have to discuss. What happened to our country? So much has changed in only the little time I've been here. I'm thankful my parents raised me the way they did. It worries me to see the generation that Im a part of beginning to move up in the world, all I can do is hope there are some kids that had parents with the same values and principles as mine.
WhatDoYouThink
Posted: Saturday, March 30, 2013 2:59:39 AM

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I think no because America is suppose to have the church separated from the state. Not everyone believes in god. It's a pledge, why say it so many times? There's more important things.
vjlegbabe
Posted: Saturday, March 30, 2013 10:06:21 AM

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Yes,the biggest problem in this country is we are slowly becoming unamerican to please others who come to this country and try to change our values to appease their own.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, March 31, 2013 6:15:15 PM

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vjlegbabe wrote:
Yes,the biggest problem in this country is we are slowly becoming unamerican to please others who come to this country and try to change our values to appease their own.


You do know that traditionally, women weren't allowed to vote in America, right? Lesbians weren't thought too highly of, either. Should those values have changed? Yes or no?
smitty319
Posted: Sunday, April 21, 2013 3:50:05 AM

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damn str8. I think it's Kansas that just passed a law putting it back in schools!
Guest
Posted: Sunday, April 21, 2013 10:51:06 AM

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I can't wait until we can get rid of borders and think as one as a species.



Yes, let's pledge, it allows us excuse to treat others like shit.
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