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RACK vs SSC Options · View
HanoverPhist
Posted: Thursday, April 11, 2013 6:48:11 PM

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Location: State of Confusion, United States
For those of you who are unaware SSC is Safe, Sane and Consensual. A term coined in the 70's to make BDSM palatable to the masses. Nothing in life is totally safe. In all honesty living in this world is inherently unsafe. At any time a runaway garbage truck may take you out. Remember that "safe sex" is technically "safer sex" Sanity is purely subjective. What may be sane to me may be completely insane to others. After all a 6' bull whip is quite capable of breaking bones. Most people would say that standing in front of one would be totally insane. And what is sane about getting together in a dark room where one person is naked and the other is wielding implements of torture. As for consensual I'm here and you're here. One out three ain't bad.

I enjoy downhill skiing. When you purchase a lift ticket it says right on the back that there are inherent risks to the sport and by using that lift ticket you both understand and accept these risks. This is more akin to RACK or Risk Aware Consensual Kink. Negotiation is not at all valid unless there is foreknowledge of the inherent risks. RACK allows us the freedom to participate in, what most would call, non PC fantasies in a responsible fashion.

Personally I subscribe to RACK. Feel free to weigh in. I look forward to hearing your opinions
overmykneenow
Posted: Friday, April 12, 2013 5:01:14 AM

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Joined: 6/8/2010
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Location: United Kingdom
I would imagine most level headed people see it for what it is: an abusive relationship or self-harm by proxy.

Perfect for control freaks and adrenaline junkies, not so good for their victims - and yes, that is the right term for anyone in the passive (I won't even call it submissive) role in that "relationship"



Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

Why not read some stories instead

NEW! Want a quick read for your coffee break? Why not try this... Flash Erotica: Scrubber
crazydiamond
Posted: Friday, April 12, 2013 5:16:56 AM

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Location: Exactly where I should be!, Canada
HanoverPhist wrote:
After all a 6" bull whip is quite capable of breaking bones.


A six inch bull whip? That's a short whip.




Ravyn
Posted: Friday, April 12, 2013 3:45:37 PM

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overmykneenow wrote:
I would imagine most level headed people see it for what it is: an abusive relationship or self-harm by proxy.

Perfect for control freaks and adrenaline junkies, not so good for their victims - and yes, that is the right term for anyone in the passive (I won't even call it submissive) role in that "relationship"



Am I to understand you correctly, that anyone into the BDSM lifestyle is in an abusive relationship or into self harm by proxy?

VanGogh
Posted: Friday, April 12, 2013 11:23:08 PM

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Posts: 3,908
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overmykneenow wrote:
I would imagine most level headed people see it for what it is: an abusive relationship or self-harm by proxy.

Perfect for control freaks and adrenaline junkies, not so good for their victims - and yes, that is the right term for anyone in the passive (I won't even call it submissive) role in that "relationship"



thats one way of putting it
Ravyn
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 12:19:26 AM

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PersonalAssistant wrote:


thats one way of putting it


One could say an uninformed or judgmental way

eocpez2
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 1:32:22 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 4/16/2012
Posts: 72
Location: United States
Ravyn wrote:


One could say an uninformed or judgmental way


Exactly. I feel that was judgemental and said without thought.

Being in a BDSM relationship is not subjecting yourself to abuse and torute and is not giving you the free will to beat and hit on someone. This is a topic that will never have an ending. One side of the fence thinks the other is wrong. Who has the right to say that anyone in the BDSM lifestyle is wrong for living that way? You say that my ropes and whips are abuse and I say your rose pedals and candles are lame. Its not right. Being in a relationship that transfers control to someone else is not something that everyone is interested in but that doesn't mean it is a wrong way of life.

I knew there was a reason I began to shy away from the forums. If you are against the lifestyle, why post in the forum? Leave it for those who enjoy it and wish to have a real conversation with out being judged on everything they decide to do in their own relationship. Unless you think its fair for us to tell you that your relationships are lame and weak so add some chains and whips or its not a real relationship.

Now about the topic, my personal opinion is ssc. I'm not much for the "surprise attack" lol
VanGogh
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 1:48:14 AM

Rank: Sarcastic Coffee Aficionado

Joined: 2/10/2012
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eocpez2 wrote:

Exactly. I feel that was judgemental and said without thought.


before you and anyone else goes bonkers with "leave our lifestyle alone" ... there is validity in someone's opinion ... it may not be your's - but before YOU judge his comment, relax and perhaps appreciate that it was his opinion to the OP statement. I enjoy coming into this forum and reading some of the posts. It enlightens me. bdsm is not my lifestyle, and neither is lgbt ... but I can and will comment with my opinion, when I read something that I want to comment on.

eocpez2
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 1:57:22 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 4/16/2012
Posts: 72
Location: United States
I am not saying keep your comments to yourself. What I am getting at is that so often in this forum, people who are not "into the lifestyle", come in and post their their negative comments without thinking first. There is a way to tell someone that your views don't agree with ours. Then there are ways of coming in and being disrespectful. Which is why I asked who has the right to tell someone their way of life or relationships are wrong. I am not telling you to shut up and stay out. I am saying that a little more thought in your choice of words should be considered. I have nothing against someone who is not in the lifestyle coming in and finding information, asking their questions, or stating their thoughts. What I am against is someone coming in just for the purpose of putting someone down because of the way they chose to live. So no, I will not appreciate his criticism and thoughtless disrespect. Like you, I will state my disagreeance.
overmykneenow
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 2:27:36 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,387
Location: United Kingdom
Ravyn wrote:


Am I to understand you correctly, that anyone into the BDSM lifestyle is in an abusive relationship or into self harm by proxy?


No, you're understanding me incorrectly - I obviously didn't make myself clear. I was referring to the OP's request for opinions on his definition of RACK. Granted, I have assumed what he euphemistically refers to as "non-pc fantasies" refers to things we can't even discuss here - subjects like knife play.

Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

Why not read some stories instead

NEW! Want a quick read for your coffee break? Why not try this... Flash Erotica: Scrubber
BamaFan78
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 2:39:52 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 3/18/2013
Posts: 30
Location: Bama Country, United States
overmykneenow wrote:


No, you're understanding me incorrectly - I obviously didn't make myself clear. I was referring to the OP's request for opinions on his definition of RACK. Granted, I have assumed what he euphemistically refers to as "non-pc fantasies" refers to things we can't even discuss here - subjects like knife play.



Your right about that most BDSM is SSC by OP's definition. RACK would be more for people who are into causing pain and being in pain. I feel it would be safe to say 90% of lush would fall under SSC.
overmykneenow
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 3:12:02 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,387
Location: United Kingdom
If you're in any kind of relationship that is not safe, sane and consensual, what kind of relationship are you in?

Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

Why not read some stories instead

NEW! Want a quick read for your coffee break? Why not try this... Flash Erotica: Scrubber
jerseylynn
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 3:26:40 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 1,387
Location: around and about Hell, United States
PersonalAssistant wrote:


It enlightens me. bdsm is not my lifestyle, and neither is lgbt ... but I can and will comment with my opinion, when I read something that I want to comment on.



I guess all anybody is saying here is please respect the location that you are in. It's understood that not everybody will agree on any type of subject and of course everybody is welcome to post their thoughts. What is asked is that people respect the location they are visiting. The purpose is to educate and give a new understanding. What isn't appreciated is when people poke fun at or post inappropriate things.

I'm not saying that is the case here just making a statement that pertains to all Forum threads and posts.

No one can make you jealous, angry, vengeful, or greedy -unless you let him.
- Napoleon Hill
jerseylynn
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 3:28:58 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 1,387
Location: around and about Hell, United States
overmykneenow wrote:
If you're in any kind of relationship that is not safe, sane and consensual, what kind of relationship are you in?


Nods and agrees as this should hold true in any type of relationship no matter what it may fall under.

No one can make you jealous, angry, vengeful, or greedy -unless you let him.
- Napoleon Hill
VanGogh
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 3:53:41 AM

Rank: Sarcastic Coffee Aficionado

Joined: 2/10/2012
Posts: 3,908
Location: Vancouver, Canada
jerseylynn wrote:
What isn't appreciated is when people poke fun at or post inappropriate things.


Who poked fun? Who posted inappropriate things??

Certainly it wasn't me, when my comment was in agreement with OMKN.

Relax ... enjoy ... smile. Smiles look good on everyone!!
Jack_42
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 4:01:32 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/21/2009
Posts: 1,167
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
I don't mind the lifestyles so much as all the acronyms which I find most affected. Is that to keep a sort of restricted club or cult atmosphere or is is related to George Orwell's ideas about language in 1984? How about HMP (hetrosexuall mainstream practices) or WMSENOPL (wank myself stupid every night over pornographic literature), or PTCIMBN (put the custard in my boots now)?
Sensei
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 9:08:36 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 5/16/2012
Posts: 566
Location: United States
I guess I have a different perspective on RACK versus SSC.

Both have "Consensual" in it. I believe that true, informed, withdraw-able consent is the ONLY thing that separates BDSM from abuse. I'm not going to say more than that - I believe it's as black-and-white as it gets. Either everyone consents, or it's a felony.

The difference between the two is the emphasis on safety.

Mike Rowe, I believe, said it most succinctly on Dirty Jobs (though he was speaking of employment rather than kink). SSC, I believe, is like saying "Safety First." In Mike Rowe's narrative, "Safety First" was a useless mantra. Clearly safety is never first on a job site where safety is a concern, because the safest course is to simply not do the work. Mike's replacement mantra was "Safety Third." For him, doing the job came first, making entertaining television was number two, and safety was number three.

That, I believe, is the essence of RACK. It is deciding that what you (and that includes EVERYONE INVOLVED) want to do is to put pleasure ahead of safety in the priority list. Not that it means doing things with a disregard to safety, but with the idea that you're not going to let a concern for safety get in the way of kink.

To paraphrase Mike, "Safety, while always in the top 5, is never first."

My novel, The Society, is available now in the Kindle Store: http://www.amazon.com/The-Society-ebook/dp/B00BPF9U2I
jerseylynn
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 12:59:32 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 1,387
Location: around and about Hell, United States
PersonalAssistant wrote:


Who poked fun? Who posted inappropriate things??

Certainly it wasn't me, when my comment was in agreement with OMKN.

Relax ... enjoy ... smile. Smiles look good on everyone!!


Did i say you did... hmm in fact i believe i said you didn't, i was just making a statement...here have a cup of coffee, a chill pill and relax.

No one can make you jealous, angry, vengeful, or greedy -unless you let him.
- Napoleon Hill
overmykneenow
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 1:27:25 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,387
Location: United Kingdom
Sensei wrote:
I guess I have a different perspective on RACK versus SSC.

Both have "Consensual" in it. I believe that true, informed, withdraw-able consent is the ONLY thing that separates BDSM from abuse. I'm not going to say more than that - I believe it's as black-and-white as it gets. Either everyone consents, or it's a felony.

The difference between the two is the emphasis on safety.

Mike Rowe, I believe, said it most succinctly on Dirty Jobs (though he was speaking of employment rather than kink). SSC, I believe, is like saying "Safety First." In Mike Rowe's narrative, "Safety First" was a useless mantra. Clearly safety is never first on a job site where safety is a concern, because the safest course is to simply not do the work. Mike's replacement mantra was "Safety Third." For him, doing the job came first, making entertaining television was number two, and safety was number three.

That, I believe, is the essence of RACK. It is deciding that what you (and that includes EVERYONE INVOLVED) want to do is to put pleasure ahead of safety in the priority list. Not that it means doing things with a disregard to safety, but with the idea that you're not going to let a concern for safety get in the way of kink.

To paraphrase Mike, "Safety, while always in the top 5, is never first."


What is deemed as safe and sane is subjective. Unfortunately it seems that consensual also falls into that category for some people. Some people think that a woman wearing a short skirt is consent.

The definition of consent is key because it informs what's safe and what's sane. If someone tells you they want you to cut their arms off, you really shouldn't.


Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

Why not read some stories instead

NEW! Want a quick read for your coffee break? Why not try this... Flash Erotica: Scrubber
Sensei
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 1:51:38 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 5/16/2012
Posts: 566
Location: United States
overmykneenow wrote:


What is deemed as safe and sane is subjective. Unfortunately it seems that consensual also falls into that category for some people. Some people think that a woman wearing a short skirt is consent.



Those people are either criminals or insane.

I don't really want to argue the consent portion. Quite frankly, it's the easiest part when you're dealing with reasonable people (which is the only way one should play). You establish that consent exists at the outset and establish a mechanism (safe word or gesture) by which it can be withdrawn at any time. That's just a given. It's no different for RACK or SSC. Anyone who doesn't do that is doing it wrong.

Dismemberment isn't an interesting point for me, because it's one of the things that for me is a hard limit - I'd never consent to it (and I'm talking about giving OR receiving). And consent from all parties is a requirement.

My novel, The Society, is available now in the Kindle Store: http://www.amazon.com/The-Society-ebook/dp/B00BPF9U2I
HanoverPhist
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 2:04:11 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 2/19/2013
Posts: 35
Location: State of Confusion, United States
All this and all I ever intended was to see how many people subscribed to what. I'm not tellin ya how to do it. I am just expressing an opinion. My OPINION is simply that most of the things that I do during play are not ever totally safe. Yes there are measures taken to ensure safety, and to make such activities as safe as possible. Sanity is subjective. Some people would say that jumping out of a perfectly good airplane is insane, but there are people who do it all the time. They do so in the safest possible manner and aware of the risks associated with doing so. And as far as consent I mean if you show up to play that's pretty much consent. Notice that I said CONSENT and NOT NEGOTIATION, for those are two very different things. I mean you show up at a car lot, chances are you're there to buy a car.

overmykneenow wrote:


If someone tells you they want you to cut their arms off, you really shouldn't.


If someone tells me that they want me to cut their arms off I see that there are two options. HOLD ON AND HEAR ME OUT NOW. The first, and more likely, option would be not to play with them because it wouldn't be healthy. The second option, and this would be only with someone I knew well, make em think I cut their arms off.

so now have at it folks... I'm sure you're all gonna chew me a new asshole. My opinions are rarely that of the general populous.

I been doin this a while, I kinda know what I'm doin and in 20 years I'm sure that all the people that I have played with would come play with me again, and I haven't caused harm to anyone, physical, mentally, or emotionally
VanGogh
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 2:25:12 PM

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Posts: 3,908
Location: Vancouver, Canada
jerseylynn wrote:


Did i say you did... hmm in fact i believe i said you didn't, i was just making a statement...here have a cup of coffee, a chill pill and relax.


Hey Jers .... because you quoted me, it certainly LOOKED like you were making a statement directed at me. dontknow

But, hey, I'm having my coffee just observing most of the time. I am not a pill popper ... so I'll pass on that ... cat

and my opinion is that the OP and his thread is VERY interesting .... let THAT debate / SHARING of opinions continue!!
jerseylynn
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 3:24:58 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 1,387
Location: around and about Hell, United States
PersonalAssistant wrote:


Hey Jers .... because you quoted me, it certainly LOOKED like you were making a statement directed at me. dontknow



Maybe you need to go back and read the original post i made...seems you stopped just short of the last sentence.

As i'm very much enjoying the post i will do just that and read the words written not assume just cause a part of my post is mentioned that i'm being attacked...enjoy your coffee and please if you have anything to add to the thread, please do.

No one can make you jealous, angry, vengeful, or greedy -unless you let him.
- Napoleon Hill
IronRaven
Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 3:46:31 PM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 4/7/2013
Posts: 4
Location: United States
since everything is open to interpretation ... is there truly a difference between SSC and RACK? to be safe...you must be aware of the risks.. insane people wouldn't even consider the risks.. both are consensual.... and anyone not into kink wouldn't know either term

I'm no newbie to this life.... and I've seen ppl debate this topic before....but it's always seemed to me that the terms are interchangeable I'm just glad MOST ppl choose to use one or the other in their decision making process
HanoverPhist
Posted: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:16:44 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 2/19/2013
Posts: 35
Location: State of Confusion, United States
IronRaven wrote:
....but it's always seemed to me that the terms are interchangeable


I would tend to agree that regardless of which you choose that the priorities are be placed on being as safe as possible. As I was told many years ago, don't do anything that you can't undo. Holding in mind that I speak of safety not only am I referring to the physical but the mental and emotional as well.

SweetPenny
Posted: Sunday, April 14, 2013 3:32:34 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/15/2010
Posts: 1,274
Location: State of Confusion
Risk Aware Consensual Kink. Personally, if I feel that my life, safety or health is at RISK, I would tell the guy to fuck off.
LordOmega
Posted: Thursday, April 25, 2013 6:49:40 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/24/2012
Posts: 129
Location: Marietta, United States
Now see being in the lifestyle for 16+ years (just had my birthday April 16th so it had to change) this is by far one of the more interesting topics I have seen here in a while and brought me out of my self imposed non commenting hiatus on this board.

First thank you for defining RACK and SSC for those that might not have known what it meant. I think anytime we talk it is important that we make sure that anyone that reads the posts have a complete understanding of the terms being used as that is key in any level of communication.

As for me personally, I think all my slaves and subs, those that are mine, those I have trained for others and those I have rehabilitated know that it is always Safe (as defined by the guidelines of the relationship), Secure (with all safety precautions taken, including quick release in bondage situations) and in ALL CASES Consensual (hope I spelled that right).

That said there is always a Risk (if it were completely safe there would be no reason to take precautions), they are always Aware (they know what they are getting into from the beginning), Consensual (see above point as it can't be made enough. It must ALWAYS be Consensual) and I could have now misspelled that three times. And it would be hard not to admit that it is Kink (just by definition alone).

I would say that it is less one or the other and more a combination of practice from the SSC side and awareness from the RACK side and so both parties may be in the same relationship and see it from one side or the other.

If you have read 50 Shades of Gray and think that you are ready to be a dom or a sub. Then you have a lot to learn.

Follow my slave's blog slave skye's real life blog if we can get 100 followers she is going to start posting pictures!!! I know there are at least 100 of you that want to see that click the link enter your email and follow. We hit 100 then she has said she will post a picture of herself.
BlackTalon
Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:37:25 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 4/19/2013
Posts: 55
Location: United States
I still feel this topic is equal to discussing the subtle difference between "My car is yellow." and "I have a yellow car."

One cannot attempt to be safe unless aware that there is risk involved, and takes precautions to reduce said risks.

...as stressed by many others...consent, consent, consent

Choose either principle and implement it into your lifestyle.

Knowledge is nothing if not shared, with your slave, your community, and those wishing to enter into it. So I will continue to look for topics to give My opinion about, yes opinion.

*** Disclaimer ***
My way of thinking doesn't fit everyone, nor does anyone elses, it is not My intention to tell anyone else here how they must see or do things, as there are as many views of what "the life" means to people as there are people in it.
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