Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

Horror genre has been killed Options · View
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:14:31 AM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 7,497
Location: Your dirty fantasy
Magical_felix wrote:
This is a french movie. If you do check it out, watch it in it's original language. There isn't much dialogue. It's called high tension for a reason. You will find yourself holding your breath. It's more classic horror than the other movies I mentioned but it still seems fresh to me. It's director is now making american horror movies that aren't as good but this is a classic.



Oh my god - YES! I couldn't remember the name of this one because I saw it so many years ago, but it's always been stuck in my head as a great horror film. As soon as you wrote "this is a french movie", I knew it had to be the same one. The ending was so unexpected. This was a really cool little flick. High Tension. Gotta see it again. :)


MrLosAngeles
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:31:59 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/11/2013
Posts: 482
Location: Marina del Rey, United States
I don't know if it's been killed. Themes have a way of resurrecting themselves after a gap. Westerns came back, spy thrillers came back. Good horror might come back, but I agree most of what passes these days is just "shock" and schlock. Even Guillermo del Toro's latest stuff is far from frightening. The remake of the Wolfman was dreadful, but then the old 1960s Hammer movies and Roger Corman dealt a terrible blow to the genre as did all the various Stephen King schlock fests. The original material is still there but in book form, like the novels of Robt. McCammon, Dan Simmons, Richard Matheson, and the early Necroscope books of Brian Lumley.
overmykneenow
Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:56:33 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,407
Location: United Kingdom
If it has been killed it'll just get reincarnated in the sequel Horror Genre II: Back from the Dead

Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

Why not read some stories instead

NEW! Want a quick read for your coffee break? Why not try this... Flash Erotica: Scrubber
seeker4
Posted: Friday, March 1, 2013 2:00:43 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/17/2012
Posts: 7,097
Location: Sneaking through the forest, Canada
MrLosAngeles wrote:
The original material is still there but in book form, like the novels of Robt. McCammon, Dan Simmons, Richard Matheson, and the early Necroscope books of Brian Lumley.


And even in book form, I'm not really sure what's good anymore. So many of the back of the book blurbs suggest to me the same old ideas being hashed out over and over again. When I need a chill these days, I find I'd just as soon go back to a classic like M. R. James or H. P. Lovecraft as try some of what's out there now unless I've had a specific recommendation from a source I can rely on like a friend with similar tastes or an author that I like. All the ones you mention go back to the nineties or earlier but I agree that all are modern horror at its best when they are on their game. Matheson in particular is pretty much into the classic category now.


A hike in the woods leads to an encounter between the erstwhile bride Julia and her groom Curt. Will love be rekindled?

A Bride's Confession

And the complete story of Curt and Julia can be found by following the links between the stories or see the list on this forum thread:

Wedding Interrupted

Jack_42
Posted: Friday, March 1, 2013 5:09:08 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/21/2009
Posts: 1,326
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
I find the term horror movie difficult as there as so many varieties of it. Movies that portray in great detail internal and external body parts don't exactly frighten me more nauseate - as I don't enjoy watching surgical operations on tv the same goes for such movies. I would include those that feature cannabalism or blood drinking from wine glasses etc as in the same mode. I am also baffled and sometimes suspicious as to why people enjoy such sights maybe cathartic or is it some nasty primeval need? For example Cabin Fever in my opinion was only nauseating and not frightening as was Hostel. Some of the more gothic ones are amusing in their over the top terms though like references to Dracula as ''the prince of darkness'' makes me smile (good name for a band). Or I once met an incredibly handsome young man in the Ukraine who was highly amused when I told him that his name was often that of the assistant in Frankenstein movies - Igor (a more unlikely Igor you'd never meet - he looked like a gleaming matinee idol). I feel that as effects have grown more graphic and realistic the genre has become more vomit evoking and less scary accordingly. The old black and white movies for instance with clever lighting and use of shadow could be very atmospheric whereas watching someone's fingers being realistically cut off in a toilet in full glorious colour to me is not frightening just sickening and not really in good taste.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Friday, March 1, 2013 5:34:50 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 7,497
Location: Your dirty fantasy
Jack_42 wrote:
For example Cabin Fever in my opinion was only nauseating and not frightening as was Hostel.


Yeah, I get what you're saying. They do have some shock-gore. I think what I appreciate about these films though is what they say about the human condition. It's not just about a bunch of good looking people getting tortured or dying grim deaths, it's about the morality behind their actions and the connections between them.

Like in Cabin Fever - we'd like to think we'd help a stranger in need or especially a close friend, but as the virus sets in - you start to re-evaluate your morality (self-preservation at any cost or altruistically sticking together no matter what). It's an interesting concept and so you can start to imagine yourself in that situation (conceptually speaking). Does self-preservation outweigh all other relationships and to what degree? I thought it was a cool little flick. Gory, yes. But the premise was very thoughtful. It wasn't simply a bunch of hot teens being stalked and killed off by a miscellaneous monster. And it wasn't just the virus transforming the characters - it was slowly transforming their moral compass as well.

Hostel similarly plays off several interesting ideas as well that make it more than just a gore-flick. Where do loyalties lie, what does money (in cases of poverty and semi-lawlessness) make you do if you don't know what the end-product looks like. Is there such evil depravity inside the minds of seemingly banal/successful people.

That's why I like Eli Roth's films. There's some gore - but there's always bigger statements about the human condition and looking at the dark side in all of us and what conditions can elicit it. It's rare that a horror film can really make me think and it seems like he sets out to do that with his films even more so than delivering a temporary scare or a stomach-turning cinematic moment.


darlvanhorn
Posted: Friday, March 1, 2013 7:33:16 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/28/2013
Posts: 407
None of the horror films of today have given me a fright, like the ones from 70's 80's. the last time i got a fright, was when i went to picture's to see Batman: Dark Knight. That goes to show, it ain't even a horror.
you want a horror film where you don't expect what comes next.

<a href="http:www.lushstories.com/stories/masturbation/bathroom-fantasy.aspx">Bathroom Fantasy</a>

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-stories/a-night-that-never-happend.aspx
Jack_42
Posted: Saturday, March 2, 2013 12:57:04 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/21/2009
Posts: 1,326
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
[quote=Dancing_Doll]

[Yeah, I get what you're saying. They do have some shock-gore. I think what I appreciate about these films though is what they say about the human condition. It's not just about a bunch of good looking people getting tortured or dying grim deaths, it's about the morality behind their actions and the connections between them. ]

I understand but I suppose for the questions you feel the films raise I would be more entertained - or educated if you like without the extreme grottiness. I prefer morality lessons to be presented in a more amusing way for example as in In The Heat Of The Night. And I still don't understand why people are entertained by very realistic horrible things which I find a little disturbing like Kill Bill which after the 3rd or 4th suicidal Japanese sword wielding gangster realistically bit the dust (they could have easily shot her) became nauseatingly boring. There was a movie based on fact about people in a sunk ship's lifeboat the commander of which ditched the wounded, the weak and the useless in order to save the majority but the scenes weren't presented in a way that was totally nauseating they didn't for example show how they managed toilet facilities but the moral question was still understood.

Dancing_Doll
Posted: Sunday, March 3, 2013 11:38:25 AM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 7,497
Location: Your dirty fantasy
Jack_42 wrote:


I understand but I suppose for the questions you feel the films raise I would be more entertained - or educated if you like without the extreme grottiness. I prefer morality lessons to be presented in a more amusing way for example as in In The Heat Of The Night. And I still don't understand why people are entertained by very realistic horrible things which I find a little disturbing like Kill Bill which after the 3rd or 4th suicidal Japanese sword wielding gangster realistically bit the dust (they could have easily shot her) became nauseatingly boring. There was a movie based on fact about people in a sunk ship's lifeboat the commander of which ditched the wounded, the weak and the useless in order to save the majority but the scenes weren't presented in a way that was totally nauseating they didn't for example show how they managed toilet facilities but the moral question was still understood.



I like a bit of gore or shock value sometimes. It goes with the horror genre, otherwise it's more just a suspense/thriller (which I also enjoy but have different expectations from). Was 'In the Heat of The Night' considered a horror film? I haven't seen it. I don't consider Kill Bill a horror, but it's one of my fave movies of all time. When I think of 'horror' I think of 'horrible things' so I expect to see stuff that makes me cringe. I don't get nauseated by it though - I actually enjoy the zombie segments in Walking Dead for example. To me, the key is that it needs to have a balance with the rest of the storyline/action - not just nonstop blood. If a film can push the envelope in certain scenes but still have compelling themes beyond "try not to get killed" then I think it can make for a successful horror film. Cheesey and/or campy gore like Piranha 3D and the flicks where a series of one-dimensional characters gets sliced and diced by a random bad guy don't really interest me. A little bit of gore and shock value combined with a complex plot line and interesting characters makes for a solid film for this genre. It's similar to my favourite formula for erotica writing actually, except I substitute the hot explicit sex for the gore. :)


oldhound
Posted: Sunday, March 3, 2013 11:53:49 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/7/2013
Posts: 203
Location: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Current horror films have way too much gore. Classics like the Hound of the Baskervilles, or the Raven. Those engage your mind to the point you are far morw terrified than seeing a decapitation.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Sunday, March 3, 2013 12:27:40 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 11,235
Location: Cakeland
The 2003 movie - Open Water - scared the living shit out of me. I doubt it was mean to be a horror movie - according to IMDB it was a Drama/Thriller.

The scenario was based upon something which indeed happened to a couple...and the fact that it can happen to people ... made it a horror movie to me. I could barely watch it, I was petrified by what I knew the outcome not only MIGHT be...but they would definitely drown, if nothing else.



Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Sunday, March 3, 2013 12:51:56 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 7,497
Location: Your dirty fantasy
WellMadeMale wrote:
The 2003 movie - Open Water - scared the living shit out of me. I doubt it was mean to be a horror movie - according to IMDB it was a Drama/Thriller.

The scenario was based upon something which indeed happened to a couple...and the fact that it can happen to people ... made it a horror movie to me. I could barely watch it, I was petrified by what I knew the outcome not only MIGHT be...but they would definitely drown, if nothing else.



I absolutely loved this one too. I watched it several times. And you're right - it's that it did happen that makes it even more terrifying. The quieter improv-style acting made it more realistic too. You can totally imagine them as a couple going through all the different phases of hope and despair to the final realization that they were doomed.


Magical_felix
Posted: Sunday, March 3, 2013 12:56:26 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 8,194
Location: California
oldhound wrote:
Current horror films have way too much gore. Classics like the Hound of the Baskervilles, or the Raven. Those engage your mind to the point you are far morw terrified than seeing a decapitation.


Oh yeah... I think I remember my grandma saying that was scary.

crazydiamond
Posted: Sunday, March 3, 2013 1:04:02 PM

Rank: Clever Gem

Joined: 7/17/2011
Posts: 2,303
Location: Exactly where I should be!, Canada
Magical_felix wrote:


Oh yeah... I think I remember my grandma saying that was scary.


Ohhhh yeah, I heard about your Grandma!! kekekegay

Magical_felix
Posted: Monday, March 4, 2013 9:06:51 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 8,194
Location: California
crazydiamond wrote:


Ohhhh yeah, I heard about your Grandma!! kekekegay


My grandma was a hip hip lady, man.

Guest
Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 7:34:21 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 891,900
As per what a couple of others have said, [Rec] is brilliant. Im assuming anyone who has said they havent seen a decent horror in years hasnt seen it. Its "shit your pants" scary.

Human Centipede isnt even remotely scary, its just shit

If anyone likes horror comedy, I couldnt recommend "Tucker and Dale vs Evil" more highly. It really is superb. The first fifteen minutes or so give the impression its going to be the worst movie you've ever seen, but then its just changes and becomes great. An little known classic.


Guest
Posted: Monday, April 8, 2013 6:20:36 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 891,900
I watched Evil Dead last night .... It did a good job trying to stay true to the 80s style horror, gore, over the top bloody violence but lacked the bits of humour Bruce Campbell brought to the original. Remaking any cult classic is going to be tough job, I think good originals should stay just that. I also watched the trailer for the remake of Carrie .... which leaves little to be desired.
Foreign horror is really the way to go, High Tension was brilliant! Another great french horror film was Martyrs ... 2 really good korean flicks were The tale of two sisters and I saw the devil ... some parts looked alittle too real. And some might disagree but Let the right one in ( swedish version ) was pretty good for a vampire horror .. if there is such a thing.
TheCrimsonKing
Posted: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:26:40 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 5/1/2012
Posts: 66
Location: Kentucky, United States
there are plenty of good horror films out there. You just have to sift through all the crap. Insidious was a very well done movie. The Descent, 1408, Let Me in(or the original swedish film), REC 1 and 2, 30 days of night, Midnight Meat Train, Sinister. Those are just a few recent films that come to mind.
Guest
Posted: Friday, April 12, 2013 7:56:53 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 891,900
I'm a horror junkie.My favs are Henry:Portrait Of A Serial killer,Evil Dead,F13,A Nightmare On Elm Street,Texas Chainsaw Massacre,Halloween...you know,the basic four ...Freddy,Jason,Michael,Leatherface...as for new horror movies Hatchet is pretty good(2006),Kane Hodder is wonderful in it.I love Kane Hodder and Bruce Campbell.You might want to also check out Bubba Ho Tep.I like horror with a splash of dry humor in it and I think that is why the 70's and 80's horror was so good because of that.There are other movies I like that are thrillers and suspense.Sorry but I just loved "The Ring".There are only two movies that ever scared the hell out of me,The Beast Within,and The Ring.I must interject on one thing however...a rating of R does not promise a better horror movie.Remember a little ole movie named "Poltergiest".I saw it when I was 8 years old on vhs and at the time it had a PG rating because PG-13 did not come along till two years later.A movie does not have to show blood to scare you.I think a mind fuck is more intense then a few buckets of red dyed karo syrup anyday.However the Karo syrup will alway's have a special place in my heart
paul_moadib
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 12:44:24 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/31/2013
Posts: 781
Location: Docking bay 94
Perhaps not entirely.

I think a lot of traditional horror themes are being over-exploited, zombies being the obvious craze at the moment but there are loads of lower-budget movies being made to counter-balance the weaker remakes and the teen-marketed "jump-scare" genre.

Some decent movies of the last few years, at least IMO:

- Red, White & Blue
- The Dead
- Grave Encounters
- Chained
- Sinister
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 2:12:10 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 891,900
I can't believe I'm gonna do this, but...

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE HORROR GENRE.

Hear me out...true, horror seems to be on a downturn, but that's movies in general - not just horror. I've read through this thread and many people are commenting on how cheaply made movies are now. That's true, but horror has always been cheaply made. You will never find a horror movie with an Iron Man like budget - especially in this economy. I agree pg13 horror should be banned. It fits the "Two things that don't go together make a good band name" rule. There are good movies out there but they are harder to find in this online generation, much like music. If you are waiting for the mainstream to make something worthy then I suggest looking into cryo-chambers cause it's gonna be awhile.

If there is one thing I wish the industry would do, it would be marketing better and more honestly. I know a lot of people were pumped for "Cabin in the Woods" only to be disappointed it was a comedy. If the industry would have marketed it as a fun romp through horror icons (what it really was, an ode to the genre), it would have fared better.

"The Exorcist" is still the scariest, but "In the Mouth of Madness" is an under-rated classic.
seeker4
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 2:27:13 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/17/2012
Posts: 7,097
Location: Sneaking through the forest, Canada
artistmda wrote:
I've read through this thread and many people are commenting on how cheaply made movies are now. That's true, but horror has always been cheaply made. You will never find a horror movie with an Iron Man like budget - especially in this economy. I agree pg13 horror should be banned. It fits the "Two things that don't go together make a good band name" rule. There are good movies out there but they are harder to find in this online generation, much like music.


Exactly. Look at Night of the Living Dead. Packs more intensity and story than many of the modern big budget zombie flicks and Romero and some friends made it for $114000.

Oh, and it would likely get a PG-13 today, given that there isn't much explicit gore.




A hike in the woods leads to an encounter between the erstwhile bride Julia and her groom Curt. Will love be rekindled?

A Bride's Confession

And the complete story of Curt and Julia can be found by following the links between the stories or see the list on this forum thread:

Wedding Interrupted

Guest
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:11:25 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 891,900
seeker4 wrote:


Exactly. Look at Night of the Living Dead. Packs more intensity and story than many of the modern big budget zombie flicks and Romero and some friends made it for $114000.

Oh, and it would likely get a PG-13 today, given that there isn't much explicit gore.




I totally agree. I think a good pg13 horror movie could be made, the only real issue is once you've eliminated too much gore, the movie becomes a "thriller/drama/suspense" film and nearly leaves the horror genre. The horror genre's budget has been effected the least with this economy.
paul_moadib
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:00:33 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/31/2013
Posts: 781
Location: Docking bay 94
Dancing_Doll wrote:


Oh my god - YES! I couldn't remember the name of this one because I saw it so many years ago, but it's always been stuck in my head as a great horror film. As soon as you wrote "this is a french movie", I knew it had to be the same one. The ending was so unexpected. This was a really cool little flick. High Tension. Gotta see it again. :)


Try:Inside (French title - À l'intérieur)

Not great but there are few movies as bloody as this.
seeker4
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 7:47:23 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/17/2012
Posts: 7,097
Location: Sneaking through the forest, Canada
artistmda wrote:


I totally agree. I think a good pg13 horror movie could be made, the only real issue is once you've eliminated too much gore, the movie becomes a "thriller/drama/suspense" film and nearly leaves the horror genre. The horror genre's budget has been effected the least with this economy.


Gore =/= horror for me. I'm old-fashioned that way. 1963's The Haunting (based on Shirley Jackson's The Haunting of Hill House) is definitely horror and yet it's all psychological. And my favorite slasher films are Hitchcock's Psycho and Carpenter's Halloween, both having gore but far less of it than most of their successors.



A hike in the woods leads to an encounter between the erstwhile bride Julia and her groom Curt. Will love be rekindled?

A Bride's Confession

And the complete story of Curt and Julia can be found by following the links between the stories or see the list on this forum thread:

Wedding Interrupted

Metilda
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:47:15 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/10/2013
Posts: 1,675
Location: United States
I don't scare easy - so horror just lost it's appeal . . . the genre is just full of recycled themes and concepts - there's very little that's new.
seeker4
Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 7:05:33 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/17/2012
Posts: 7,097
Location: Sneaking through the forest, Canada
Metilda wrote:
I don't scare easy - so horror just lost it's appeal . . . the genre is just full of recycled themes and concepts - there's very little that's new.


You know, I felt that way about written horror in the mid-eighties. I'd burned out on King and Straub and other bestselling horror. I actually went back and focussed on Victorian, Edwardian, and pulp horror for a while (M.R. James, H. P. Lovecraft, Arthur Machen, William Hope Hodgson) and found some stuff that didn't necessarily scare me, but definitely gave me the creeps. Eventually, Clive Barker's The Books of Blood and Damnation Game came along and I discovered some other modern horror writers like Britain's Ramsey Campbell who were writing stuff that similarly gave me the creeps. And that's what I really look for in a good horror story. It doesn't have to scare the crap out of me and leave me shivering under the covers. It just has to unsettle me and leave me thinking about it for a time afterwards.

I will concede that literary horror tends to be better at this than horror movies, which seem to thrive on cheap thrills.


A hike in the woods leads to an encounter between the erstwhile bride Julia and her groom Curt. Will love be rekindled?

A Bride's Confession

And the complete story of Curt and Julia can be found by following the links between the stories or see the list on this forum thread:

Wedding Interrupted

Metilda
Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 8:03:12 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/10/2013
Posts: 1,675
Location: United States
seeker4 wrote:


You know, I felt that way about written horror in the mid-eighties. I'd burned out on King and Straub and other bestselling horror. I actually went back and focussed on Victorian, Edwardian, and pulp horror for a while (M.R. James, H. P. Lovecraft, Arthur Machen, William Hope Hodgson) and found some stuff that didn't necessarily scare me, but definitely gave me the creeps. Eventually, Clive Barker's The Books of Blood and Damnation Game came along and I discovered some other modern horror writers like Britain's Ramsey Campbell who were writing stuff that similarly gave me the creeps. And that's what I really look for in a good horror story. It doesn't have to scare the crap out of me and leave me shivering under the covers. It just has to unsettle me and leave me thinking about it for a time afterwards.

I will concede that literary horror tends to be better at this than horror movies, which seem to thrive on cheap thrills.


Yes - it takes more than 2 hours of thrill kill drama or even hauntings to get under my skin.

Books - yes - books definitely do it. It's the world I create in my head . . . lol - I tend to avoid them :)
Jack_42
Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 9:33:41 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/21/2009
Posts: 1,326
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Most so called horror movies aren't really frightening just nauseating with graphic detail like watching some surgery in a documentary. I like some of the old gothic style ones but strictly for laughs with outrageous references like ''The Prince of Darkness.'' (good name for a band). Since the cold sweats of the lived through small hours of my divorce no piece of film can really frighten me ever again. I like spoof horror and can visualize a scene where the horrible thingy - werewolf or whatever is getting ever closer and the victim is in a car but instead of frantically failing to start the engine she can't get her seat belt fastened. :)
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:49:54 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 891,900
Discretion is advised.



And, "Funny Games" was awesome as well. That new Purge film looks trite and too much of a soap box film.

Just scare me without me laughing at you. O Hictchcock, Hitchcock! Wherefore art thou Hitchcock?
Users browsing this topic
Guest 


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.1.6 (NET v4.0) - 11/14/2007
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.