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Is meat bad for you? How about cooking oils? Protein shakes? Options · View
nicola
Posted: Friday, June 14, 2013 4:28:33 AM

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I got talking to a guy the other day (Joe), friend of a friend, who's had a quadruple bypass. He's only 48. It was 3 years ago when he had the op. He was telling me a few myth debunkers, and some cliff notes on what causes heart disease (the biggest killer) and how to prevent it.

Interesting stuff, which I wasn't aware of. He nearly died. He's now more active than 99% of people I know, and there's not an ounce of fat on him (he's never been overweight in his life, backed up by his wife).

So, first up, the myth about meat rotting in your stomach for up to 2 weeks (as I was told in my early teens when I went vegetarian for close to a decade). Does it?

Short answer, contrary to popular belief, no. http://www.gnolls.org/1444/

So why then, is meat bad for you?

Joe told me that the guy who operated on him, strongly urged him, to go totally vegan, and eat no oils whatsoever either. There's apparently no such thing as a healthy oil apparently. Not even your cold pressed virgin olive oil (guilty as charged).

The surgeon himself, after carving up people for many years, and having some problems of his own along the same lines, started painstakingly researching what could be done about the issue. He discovered heart disease amongst people who never ate meat, was almost non-existent.

Some interesting reading backing up his findings:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/health/study-points-to-new-culprit-in-heart-disease.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Quote:
The researchers had come to believe that what damaged hearts was not just the thick edge of fat on steaks, or the delectable marbling of their tender interiors. In fact, these scientists suspected that saturated fat and cholesterol made only a minor contribution to the increased amount of heart disease seen in red-meat eaters. The real culprit, they proposed, was a little-studied chemical that is burped out by bacteria in the intestines after people eat red meat. It is quickly converted by the liver into yet another little-studied chemical called TMAO that gets into the blood and increases the risk of heart disease.

That, at least, was the theory. So the question that morning was: Would a burst of TMAO show up in people’s blood after they ate steak? And would the same thing happen to a vegan who had not eaten meat for at least a year and who consumed the same meal?

The answers were: yes, there was a TMAO burst in the five meat eaters; and no, the vegan did not have it. And TMAO levels turned out to predict heart attack risk in humans, the researchers found. The researchers also found that TMAO actually caused heart disease in mice. Additional studies with 23 vegetarians and vegans and 51 meat eaters showed that meat eaters normally had more TMAO in their blood and that they, unlike those who spurned meat, readily made TMAO after swallowing pills with carnitine.

“It’s really a beautiful combination of mouse studies and human studies to tell a story I find quite plausible,” said Dr. Daniel J. Rader, a heart disease researcher at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, who was not involved in the research.

Researchers say the work could lead to new treatments for heart disease — perhaps even an antibiotic to specifically wipe out the bacterial culprit — and also to a new way to assess heart disease risk by looking for TMAO in the blood.

Of course, critical questions remain. Would people reduce their heart attack risk if they lowered their blood TMAO levels? An association between TMAO levels in the blood and heart disease risk does not necessarily mean that one causes the other. And which gut bacteria in particular are the culprits?

There also are questions about the safety of supplements, like energy drinks and those used in body building. Such supplements often contain carnitine, a substance found mostly in red meat.


Reasons to eat less meat:

http://www.womenshealthmag.com/nutrition/vegetarian-benefits

The Japanese diet contains almost no meat whatsoever. I've been there a few times, if meat is served, it's usually cut exceedingly thinly, and there's not a lot of it per serve.

The oldest man in the world died yesterday (aged 118), he was Japanese. It led me to post this.

I'm going to try and cut down my intake, I don't eat much as it is, but that conversation really affected me, particularly after being shown his zipper scar and told in great detail how the surgical procedure goes...

Pretty much any animal product will add to your bad cholesterol count. I told him mine was registered as fine and well within the recommended range (LDL: 2.1-4.0 - mine was 2.6). It should be well under 2.0 in reality, his surgeon said, if you really want to avoid heart disease.

Believe what you will from scientists, I mean one time everyone thought the world was flat, but I'm taking this information on board.

Balance is the key, as in most things. I think the majority of us (those that do) would probably benefit from eating less animal products, and being more active. Is the lifestyle choice worth the sacrifice? I wonder what I'll think about this on my death bed.

Be well!



Dancing_Doll
Posted: Friday, June 14, 2013 8:15:19 AM

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This was an interesting read.

Truth be told, I naturally dislike meat (probably more due to the ethical reasons than the health reasons), but I've never liked the texture of it or the look of cooked flesh. I was vegan from about 14 to early 20's (no meats, but I did eat some dairy and the occasionally eggs). I did end up going slightly anaemic but then started getting a little more thoughtful about what I consumed, trying to get other sources of iron and took supplements. I went back to incorporating some chicken and very rarely I'll have a bit of red meat (usually in a pasta sauce or pepperoni on a pizza or something). It's not something I crave or particularly enjoy though and I could easily go to strict vegan without losing any sleep over it. I much prefer seafood, tofu and grains and veggies.

I don't agree about cutting out all oils though. I think a bit of olive oil and coconut oil are good for the diet. And hey - even if it's not healthy, I'm not going to give it up. As long as you're staying away from the deep fryers and heavy canola oils, I think you're still staying in the healthy realm.

I will say that the cleaner you eat, the better you feel. There's no debating that one. I did a modified version of the raw food diet for a while and I really liked how I felt on it but it's pretty strict. There's this hardcore health food grocery store near me that really specializes in it and makes all kinds of raw food 'faux cakes' and pre-made stuff and it's surprisingly tasty. I might go back to that eventually. At the very least it's excellent to try for a six week cleanse 2-3 times a year.


nicola
Posted: Friday, June 14, 2013 3:50:30 PM

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Yes, I take coconut oil too, it supposedly helps the balance of your stomach, and helps control your weight.

You might want to read this when you're considering the amount of vegetable oil you eat / cook with, pretty alarming read. I use mainly olive oil for cooking too, but have some canola oil for things requiring a lighter touch. That's one of the worst offenders...

People eating a "Mediterranean diet" have long been known to live longer lives.

Quote:
1. Eat at least five servings of fruit and vegetables a day.
2. Eat fish at least three times a week.
3. Eat legumes such as beans, peas and lentils, at least three times a week.
4. Choose white meat over red meat.
5. Use extra virgin olive oil or a handful of mixed nuts every day.
6. If you enjoy alcohol, stick to one glass of wine a day.
7. Limit commercially made cakes, pastries and biscuits.
8. Limit sweetened cold drinks to less than 1 a day.
9. Limit consumption of red and processed meats.


I have a bit of an issue with 6. Other than that, it makes sense!
crazydiamond
Posted: Friday, June 14, 2013 4:00:54 PM

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Location: Exactly where I should be!, Canada
Dancing_Doll wrote:
This was an interesting read.
I don't agree about cutting out all oils though. I think a bit of olive oil and coconut oil are good for the diet.


This is a big point Doll, you cannot properly absorb vital nurtrients without some good oils/fats in your diet.
It's the bad ones you have to worry about, the bad, fat laden animal fats and of course the highly processed ones.
But healthy fats, in moderation, will only help your nutrition.

Dancing_Doll
Posted: Friday, June 14, 2013 4:02:32 PM

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nicola wrote:
Yes, I take coconut oil too, it supposedly helps the balance of your stomach, and helps control your weight.



Don't laugh but I give coconut oil to my dog as well. It has lots of health benefits for canines too. :)

I can't remember the last time I used canola - I never buy it. I have coconut, avocado, walnut and olive oils. Grapeseed is also nice for a little drizzle over salad or veggies.

That point about sugared drinks is a big one. People don't think twice about grabbing a Snapple or soft drink in the summer. If I'm craving a sugary cold drink, I brew a cup of fruity tea (I have a great coconut mango one at the moment), add tons of ice and a splash of lemonade. Starbucks makes the same kind of drink but charges $5 for it. It's low cal and tastes amazing.

nicola
Posted: Friday, June 14, 2013 4:12:02 PM

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Something else which is also not particularly well documented or made known.

You know that new fad for protein shakes? Apparently it's rampant in gyms now. There has been a spike in deaths, particularly amongst young people. Consumed at even moderate levels, they may cause kidney failure and death.

I'm such a ray of sunshine today! sunny
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Friday, June 14, 2013 4:53:54 PM

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nicola wrote:
Something else which is also not particularly well documented or made known.

You know that new fad for protein shakes? Apparently it's rampant in gyms now. There has been a spike in deaths, particularly amongst young people. Consumed at even moderate levels, they may cause kidney failure and death.

I'm such a ray of sunshine today! sunny


Admittedly I used to be a protein shake junkie. I'm less so now, but I will add some to a shake/smoothie sometimes. You really have to research the company and ingredients. Buying 'cheaper' powders and stuff online is highly risky. Powder that comes from China or has ingredients shipped from China and assembled in North America sneakily hiding behind that "made in the USA" label, has been the cause of a lot of issues. The whole melamine and poisoned pet foods and breast milk powder from a few years ago also affected the protein powder industry.

People also have the tendency to overuse it. Like if it says two scoops, they figure 'well four scoops would probably be even better!' Not so. As well if you don't know what you're buying you can end up products that add a ton of calories that are meant as gainers (weight) and there's no point in adding something in powder form when you'd probably rather just eat those calories at dinner in the form of healthy food portions.

But yeah - total buzzkill. I'll still drink protein shakes though... sometimes I like to live on the edge. geek

LYFBUZ
Posted: Friday, June 14, 2013 8:24:38 PM

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the Japanese, despite a healthy diet actually have a high rate of heart attacks..caused by stress (a culture with demanding expectations)...which is a huge factor in many illnesses .. stress increases cortisol in your body....a major indicator of likelihood of heart disease...its really pretty simple...moderation and balance...and avoid fad diets and, in my opinion, any advice that comes from anyone trying to sell you something...
Buz
Posted: Saturday, June 15, 2013 7:02:51 AM

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I just recently read an article in Smithsonian magazine (published by the scientific institute) that one can starve to death over a period of time, eating their fill of uncooked food (vegetables and fruits). The human digestive system has evolved with human habits and lifestyle and now works best with cooked foods. Uncooked foods in humans take more energy to process than they give. Of course in moderation this can add to your health. Even most vegetarians do eat cooked vegetables which are already broken down, ready to digest and provide positive calories and nutrition.

Myself, I do consume a lot of meat, but also eat a lot of vegetables and fruit, cooked and uncooked. I do burn enormous amounts of calories through exercise and have actually had a problem maintaining my weight recently. The doctor suggested I eat more and do less extreme exercising so I don't continue to lose weight.

I have a Japanese cook book and use it a lot. I consider myself an amateur chef and enjoy cooking very much. Japanese cooking is one of my favorites.

I always suggest purchasing 'organic' meats and vegetables whenever possible. No doubt the antibiotics and steroids used in much beef, poultry and pork production is a major contributor to the high rate of modern cancer and heart disease. This must also be true of vegetables inundated in pesticides. I go to great lengths to purchase foods free of such, but then many people cannot afford to do so because it is expensive.

The health problem we deal with in today's world is the unnatural growth and production of food in order to meet the massive demands of an overpopulated world. Eating that food causes many unhealthy side effects.

nicola
Posted: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:50:07 PM

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Buz wrote:
I just recently read an article in Smithsonian magazine (published by the scientific institute) that one can starve to death over a period of time, eating their fill of uncooked food (vegetables and fruits).


I'd like to read that article.

I agree re eating organic as much as possible, but yes, expect to pay close to double for a lot of it - well, here in Australia at least.

LYFBUZ - loved the advice!
Guest
Posted: Sunday, June 16, 2013 6:06:50 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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nicola wrote:


I'd like to read that article.

I agree re eating organic as much as possible, but yes, expect to pay close to double for a lot of it - well, here in Australia at least.

LYFBUZ - loved the advice!



You will see prices more than double the regular price in Brissy and then you see a tray of unsold produce in the supermarket going to waste...angry7
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 9:58:00 AM

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Just a tip I picked up to cut out a lot of oils in my diet. in most cases when vegetable oil is needed in baking you can substitute apple sauce 1 to 1 and I prefer the taste. It may take some getting use to but in the long run its a no brainer!
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 12:05:30 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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If all the crap about what's bad for you were true I would have been dead long ago. I believe an active lifestyle is more likely the answer to healthy living. Of course I could be completely wrong.
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