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What's your opinion on abortion? Options · View
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:06:06 PM

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"You think using the IUD and morning after pill is ok.

You're contradicting yourself."

SexEmporer wrote:
Yes. That's exactly what I'm doing. Why can't you just accept that and leave me to my ignorance?


Whoa, there. What's the qualitative difference between morning-after and abortion? One is more graphic? One is further along? In either case, you're terminating something already in motion, based on a deed already done.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:06:12 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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AriOli101 wrote:


*sigh*

Look, I'll hug you because we may have been harsh with you.

But think about what you're saying, ok?

Hugs
Okay. If y'all had used kind words from the start, I would've been much more agreeable.
AriOli101
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:08:44 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 7/3/2013
Posts: 340
Location: United Kingdom
SexEmporer wrote:
Okay. If y'all had used kind words from the start, I would've been much more agreeable.


Yeah. I'll give you credit for not wanting to outlaw abortion, and I'll stick up for you against anyone on the pro-life side who says you're an idiot, but sometimes the ways you said things sounded like you were an unfeeling psychopath.

We cool?

Make love not horcruxes! >^_^<

Check out my stories, you'd be surprised what I can do :)
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:09:33 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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LadyX wrote:


I don't seek to twist your words. I just find it hard to picture anyone truly shrugging their shoulders at the scenario I laid out ("well, that's just what it is. If you can't drag your freshly-victimized ass to the clinic and don't want to carry a rape-pregnancy, then you'll just have to be okay with murdering, I guess"). I don't think your misogyny is intentional, but just so you know, it reeks very much of that.

As for me, I think much of this is semantic bullshit. People don't like to use the word "kill" and "murder", for obvious reasons. It's unpleasant. It makes people feel like villains simply for administering medical care to their own bodies as they see fit. Personally, I don't care too much for the "is it really a murder" argument. I'm not that concerned about those who feel it is. I know they mostly throw the 'murder' word around in pursuit of a pro-life, zero-abortion agenda.

So you say that you believe it's wrong but that it should stay legal on behalf of those who feel differently, and I do count that bit to your credit. I know that not everyone is going to support that action when taken. What's obviously a sensitive issue is when women are told directly by others that they're 'wrong', and 'murderers.' No surprise that this tactic does not win friends.
Yes. I do believe that. And I have been very extreme. And I apologize if I hurt anyone. I just personally believe that it is 'wrong' and 'murder'.
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:10:38 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
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Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 16,973
Location: My Tower, United States
SexEmporer wrote:
So because she's not comfortable with it, she won't do it. If she would go do either of those things, she could not have a baby, and possibly put away a fucking rapist. But no. She's uncomfortable with those choices. So she's allowing herself to get pregnant and then killing the baby. Have you any idea how evil that sounds?


true story. i was raped last July, a little over a year ago. i was lucky. i didn't get pregnant. i did give as detailed of a description of the guy who did it as i could. they got dna samples - btw, my rape kit, all the info, is sitting in a warehouse somewhere still, waiting to be processed, for more about that, read this:

Alameda County has about 2,000 untested rape kits sitting on evidence shelves at its police departments. The kits haven't been tested for numerous reasons, including the cost and, in some instances, because a case has already been solved.

that's one county in californina - that's fairly typical numbers nationwide btw. so don't dare tell me about my comfort level, i went thru that shit, answering questions over and over, the invasive shit, too... it's fucking dehumanziing, but i fucking figured if i could stop this fucker, and you know what? he's still fucking out there. you won't to know what is truly evil? rape. that's is the fucking definition of evil in a nutshell. how dare you compare getting a fetus aborted for ANY reason to that.

he stabbed me twice, btw. i was in shock for several days after... scratch that. several weeks. i had trouble remembering my own name at times. my first thought wasn't... oh, gee, i should do something to prevent being pregnant - i may have even been given the morning after pill, i really don't have any idea. i lost three weeks of my life that i really don't remember besides outside of those 20 or so minutes. you have no idea what it does to a person to go thru that, do you? that you can even say that stuff makes me think your inhuman.

listen, i could respect your feelings on this if you hadn't decided to demonize any woman who's even been in a position, or ever will be, where she decides that abortion is her best option. and for the record, it's not easy - you DO live with it, or at least the women i know do, for the rest of your life - it's not something you just walk away from and never think about. it's a HARD descion and most of us do NOT take it lightly and most of us DO have regrets at times. still, i also think that most of us make the right choice for our own particular circumstance, so yeah, i'm going to be nice, since Xuani asked me too, and not call you an asshole. i'm doing that for her, tho, not for you.

Live, love, laugh.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:10:49 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 683,000
AriOli101 wrote:


Yeah. I'll give you credit for not wanting to outlaw abortion, and I'll stick up for you against anyone on the pro-life side who says you're an idiot, but sometimes the ways you said things sounded like you were an unfeeling psychopath.

We cool?
Yeah. I admit that I used strong words. And I'm sorry if I hurt you in any way. I think everyone should have the choice. So yeah, we're cool. Hugs
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:12:37 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
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Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 16,973
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SexEmporer wrote:
If you kill someone without their say in the matter, why should you have a say in the matter in your death? I don't think it's a good choice, but if they go to prison, they can get worse and do it again. And I'd rather have them no longer able to commit crimes than do them as they please.


so you're in favor of killing someone as punishment for their crimes as opposed to locking them away for life - just wanting to make sure we're on the same page here.

Live, love, laugh.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:13:54 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 683,000
sprite wrote:


true story. i was raped last July, a little over a year ago. i was lucky. i didn't get pregnant. i did give as detailed of a description of the guy who did it as i could. they got dna samples - btw, my rape kit, all the info, is sitting in a warehouse somewhere still, waiting to be processed, for more about that, read this:

Alameda County has about 2,000 untested rape kits sitting on evidence shelves at its police departments. The kits haven't been tested for numerous reasons, including the cost and, in some instances, because a case has already been solved.

that's one county in californina - that's fairly typical numbers nationwide btw. so don't dare tell me about my comfort level, i went thru that shit, answering questions over and over, the invasive shit, too... it's fucking dehumanziing, but i fucking figured if i could stop this fucker, and you know what? he's still fucking out there. you won't to know what is truly evil? rape. that's is the fucking definition of evil in a nutshell. how dare you compare getting a fetus aborted for ANY reason to that.

he stabbed me twice, btw. i was in shock for several days after... scratch that. several weeks. i had trouble remembering my own name at times. my first thought wasn't... oh, gee, i should do something to prevent being pregnant - i may have even been given the morning after pill, i really don't have any idea. i lost three weeks of my life that i really don't remember besides outside of those 20 or so minutes. you have no idea what it does to a person to go thru that, do you? that you can even say that stuff makes me think your inhuman.

listen, i could respect your feelings on this if you hadn't decided to demonize any woman who's even been in a position, or ever will be, where she decides that abortion is her best option. and for the record, it's not easy - you DO live with it, or at least the women i know do, for the rest of your life - it's not something you just walk away from and never think about. it's a HARD descion and most of us do NOT take it lightly and most of us DO have regrets at times. still, i also think that most of us make the right choice for our own particular circumstance, so yeah, i'm going to be nice, since Xuani asked me too, and not call you an asshole. i'm doing that for her, tho, not for you.
I understand completely where you're coming from. And I'm sorry for anything I said to hurt or offend you. I admit that I'm an asshole from reading some of the things I said. I just couldn't see past my personal opinion. And I have no idea what it's like to be raped, and I hope I never do. But comfortability has nothing to do with it, as I now see. It's about what the woman chooses. And that's up to her. I will not try to change her choice. I just find it wrong. And I apologize for what I've said to you.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:15:04 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 683,000
AriOli101 wrote:


Thank you.

But people are entitled to their opinions.

But opinions should not become legislature (as in the case of Texas)!!


That they are icon_smile
I don't know anything about Texas, probably couldn't point it out on a map Think
Good post though!
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:15:24 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 683,000
LadyX wrote:
"You think using the IUD and morning after pill is ok.

You're contradicting yourself."



Whoa, there. What's the qualitative difference between morning-after and abortion? One is more graphic? One is further along? In either case, you're terminating something already in motion, based on a deed already done.
I see where you're coming from. In a way, I'm pro-life, but in a way, I'm pro-choice. There is no difference. I just find abortion wrong because the baby has begun to take shape. I'm sorry for anything I said to hurt or offend you.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:16:27 PM

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sprite wrote:


so you're in favor of killing someone as punishment for their crimes as opposed to locking them away for life - just wanting to make sure we're on the same page here.
Yes. Because if you lock them away for life, they could still kill or rape someone. And I personally don't think they should get that chance ever again.
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:18:34 PM

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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,813
SexEmporer wrote:
I see where you're coming from. In a way, I'm pro-life, but in a way, I'm pro-choice. There is no difference. I just find abortion wrong because the baby has begun to take shape. I'm sorry for anything I said to hurt or offend you.


No worries, Scro.

I'll just point out that you're making an emotional rather than a logical argument by making that distinction. It's the same tactic with the 'murderer' moniker thrown toward those who receive an abortion. If I have an abortion and you want to call it murder, that's fine by me. But the point is that focusing on the imagery of a gerber baby being butchered is an intentional tactic to overshadow the issue of a woman's sovereignty over her own body.

adagio_sabadicus
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:18:47 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/24/2013
Posts: 1,446
Abortion should remain out of religion and politics. The woman carrying the fetus should make that decision.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:20:45 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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LadyX wrote:


No worries, Scro.

I'll just point out that you're making an emotional rather than a logical argument by making that distinction. It's the same tactic with the 'murderer' moniker thrown toward those who receive an abortion. If I have an abortion and you want to call it murder, that's fine by me. But the point is that focusing on the imagery of a gerber baby being butchered is an intentional tactic to overshadow the issue of a woman's sovereignty over her own body.

Yes. And I'm sorry for my extreme words. She should have the choice to do with her body what she wants. And if someone I knew and loved had an abortion, I would stand by them as much as I could. In my mind, I would think it wrong, but I would support her through her struggle.
clum
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:25:54 PM

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I only have one thing to say on the issue of abortion:

I wish, when the decision on whether to abort a pregnancy or not is being made, that the father had just as much a say in it as the mother (in the cases where the father is around and not some deadbeat asshole, obviously).

"But it's her body!" I know. I get that, but saying that it's ultimately up to her, whatever he thinks, is punishing a man for being male. We can't carry children; that's not our choice. You're both equally parents of that unborn child/foetus. You would (hopefully) play an equal role in raising the child, so I (strongly) believe this part should be the same.

If I had slept with a woman, whether wife or one-night stand, and she got pregnant then decided she was going to have an abortion, I would be devastated/heartbroken/irate. I would beg her to keep it, even if it meant me raising it on my own. As it stands, if she is resolved to have an abortion, there's not really anything I can do to stop her. That makes me sad and angry.

That's pretty much my only opinion on the issue of abortion.


(If there's a health risk to the mother, it's a different scenario, of course. I'm working on the assumption of a "typical" pregnancy.)

She Just Wants To Be

Third place entry in the Toy With Me competition.
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:26:40 PM

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SexEmporer wrote:
Yes. And I'm sorry for my extreme words. She should have the choice to do with her body what she wants. And if someone I knew and loved had an abortion, I would stand by them as much as I could. In my mind, I would think it wrong, but I would support her through her struggle.


thinking it's wrong isn't standing by them, you will fucking still be judging them, you might say it silently, but the word 'murderer' will still be there, and they will fucking feel it.

Live, love, laugh.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:28:24 PM

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sprite wrote:


thinking it's wrong isn't standing by them, you will fucking still be judging them, you might say it silently, but the word 'murderer' will still be there, and they will fucking feel it.
They would feel that I don't like it because I would be loving and caring for them and supplying them for what they ask for?
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:30:03 PM

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clum wrote:
I only have one thing to say on the issue of abortion:

I wish, when the decision on whether to abort a pregnancy or not is being made, that the father had just as much a say in it as the mother (in the cases where the father is around and not some deadbeat asshole, obviously).

"But it's her body!" I know. I get that, but saying that it's ultimately up to her, whatever he thinks, is punishing a man for being male. We can't carry children; that's not our choice. You're both equally parents of that unborn child/foetus. You would (hopefully) play an equal role in raising the child, so I (strongly) believe this part should be the same.

If I had slept with a woman, whether wife or one-night stand, and she got pregnant then decided she was going to have an abortion, I would be devastated/heartbroken/irate. I would beg her to keep it, even if it meant me raising it on my own. As it stands, if she is resolved to have an abortion, there's not really anything I can do to stop her. That makes me sad and angry.

That's pretty much my only opinion on the issue of abortion.


(If there's a health risk to the mother, it's a different scenario, of course. I'm working on the assumption of a "typical" pregnancy.)
You, have spoken what I believe. If I got a girl pregnant, and I knew she was pregnant, I would try to convince her to keep the child, I would rather raise it than her abort it.
clum
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:32:39 PM

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SexEmporer wrote:
You, have spoken what I believe. If I got a girl pregnant, and I knew she was pregnant, I would try to convince her to keep the child, I would rather raise it than her abort it.


That was just from a very personal point of view. I did not say that I think it is always the right decision not to have an abortion.

Just want that to be clear.

She Just Wants To Be

Third place entry in the Toy With Me competition.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:35:37 PM

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clum wrote:


That was just from a very personal point of view. I did not say that I think it is always the right decision not to have an abortion.

Just want that to be clear.
I know. And I feel the same way now.
freakycactus
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:47:44 PM

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clum wrote:
I only have one thing to say on the issue of abortion:

I wish, when the decision on whether to abort a pregnancy or not is being made, that the father had just as much a say in it as the mother (in the cases where the father is around and not some deadbeat asshole, obviously).

"But it's her body!" I know. I get that, but saying that it's ultimately up to her, whatever he thinks, is punishing a man for being male. We can't carry children; that's not our choice. You're both equally parents of that unborn child/foetus. You would (hopefully) play an equal role in raising the child, so I (strongly) believe this part should be the same.

If I had slept with a woman, whether wife or one-night stand, and she got pregnant then decided she was going to have an abortion, I would be devastated/heartbroken/irate. I would beg her to keep it, even if it meant me raising it on my own. As it stands, if she is resolved to have an abortion, there's not really anything I can do to stop her. That makes me sad and angry.

That's pretty much my only opinion on the issue of abortion.


(If there's a health risk to the mother, it's a different scenario, of course. I'm working on the assumption of a "typical" pregnancy.)


It's something that is incredibly difficult and if circumstances allow then I agree, the guy should be involved in the decision. But, and I'm not suggesting you're saying this at all, it is unreasonable to expect a woman to act as an incubator for a child she doesn't want just so the dad can raise it.

I am pro choice, abortion is something that should be accessible to all and I believe there are some circumstances where I would have an abortion and I accept they are personal to me, the decisions of others are their own and not for me to judge.

clum
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:15:38 PM

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freakycactus wrote:
But, and I'm not suggesting you're saying this at all, it is unreasonable to expect a woman to act as an incubator for a child she doesn't want just so the dad can raise it.


Well, yes and no. If a woman feels she is no more than an incubator, and she's bearing the child completely against her will, of course I don't support that.

What if it were the other way around, and she wanted to keep the child while he did not? She could decide to do that and either force him into fatherhood or choose to be a single parent. My point is that he does not have that choice.

I just don't think the woman's preference should take precedence over the man's. There should be a dialogue until they come to a decision they are both happy (or at least not unhappy) with, but the father's opinion should not simply be dismissed when it is at odds with the mother's.

As I see it, two adults get themselves into this situation (putting aside rape) and they should be able to decide between them, on completely equal terms, what to do about it.

Am I idealistic? Perhaps.

She Just Wants To Be

Third place entry in the Toy With Me competition.
MadMartigan
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:19:33 PM

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SexEmporer wrote:
So you're saying that we're equal to animals and plants?


There's a song title for this. And it is really I need to say.

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
When really, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves
Hello God I'm avoiding the truth



My parents may be ministers, but for fuck's sake. Humans are just highly evolved animals with highly specialized motor functions with the ability of a higher plane of thought.

Plants, animals, insects. They're all living things. I don't get what you're trying to say.

Quote:
I'm not trying to convince you to do anything. Handle it however you want. Your choice is your choice. I respect that. But there are wrong choices


Says who? God? A personal system of morality? Labeled females who get abortions are murders only perpetuates the issue and makes women feel like greater shit than they already do for getting an abortion.

And saying you'd support them, while secretly labeling them murders inside is just as worse. You are lying to them in the worst possible way, unless they know you are lying and then feel even worse about it.

And you clearly don't know the follow-up to rape cases when females actually report it. I don't think you fully acknowledge the sheer amount of emotional trauma women go through with rape. Pregnancy is the farthest thing from their minds when it happens. Doesn't help when cops don't know how to handle rape cases and a certain group I don't think I need to name, is aiding in shutting down shut places in a round-about manner.


Abortion should be left up to the mother without external judgements and men trying to convince them (effectively force them) to carry to term...

Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:37:08 PM

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MadMartigan wrote:


Says who? God? A personal system of morality? Labeled females who get abortions are murders only perpetuates the issue and makes women feel like greater shit than they already do for getting an abortion.

And saying you'd support them, while secretly labeling them murders inside is just as worse. You are lying to them in the worst possible way, unless they know you are lying and then feel even worse about it.

And you clearly don't know the follow-up to rape cases when females actually report it. I don't think you fully acknowledge the sheer amount of emotional trauma women go through with rape. Pregnancy is the farthest thing from their minds when it happens. Doesn't help when cops don't know how to handle rape cases and a certain group I don't think I need to name, is aiding in shutting down shut places in a round-about manner.


Abortion should be left up to the mother without external judgements and men trying to convince them (effectively force them) to carry to term...

You do realize that I revoked everything I said? Or did you realize that and are trying to make me feel like shit. Because if you're trying to make me feel like shit, get the fuck away.
MadMartigan
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:49:54 PM

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Lighten up francis. If I wanted to make you feel like shit, I'd be an ass about it.

At any rate, it appears the conversation ended anyway while I was in the middle of typing and distracted watching baseball. dontknow
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:59:39 PM

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Baseball is very distracting, I have to agree.
VanGogh
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:02:19 PM

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MadMartigan wrote:
Lighten up francis. If I wanted to make you feel like shit, I'd be an ass about it.

At any rate, it appears the conversation ended anyway while I was in the middle of typing and distracted watching baseball. dontknow


I got distracted by work ... damnit ... rather have been distracted by baseball!

Glad to see "some things" were ironed out .... and glad to see some even hugging after all that ....


A Milf series combined with Office Sex *fans face* .... The Secretary and The Student
starting withThe Secretary and The Student - first part with a Famous Story - over 30,000 views! woohoo!

Enjoy!!

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Another Sex in the Office Poem (I know you love those!!) In Your Office with over 10,000 views! woohoo!

Guest
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:05:24 PM

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Glad to see a general good mood returning.
BiMale73
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:10:16 PM

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AriOli101 wrote:
Mine is that it is *not* acceptable:

- When used as a form of contraception, (eg, repeated visits because you couldn't be bothered with contraception).
- When the child has a MINOR disability (eg, clef palate) when you want a "perfect" child.
- When you've consciously had unprotected sex KNOWING that it could lead to pregnancy and you just don't care.

It is acceptable:

- In the case of the child being born into an environment where it would not be wanted/loved or it would have a poor quality of life (eg, already have kids you can't afford, families with a history of abuse/neglect, etc).
- When the child would have a SEVERE disability (eg, dystrophic epidermolysis bullosa).
- In cases of rape/forced marriage (because if the marriage is forced, it's fairly likely the sex will also be forced) where the child is not wanted and in ALL cases of incest.
- When the mental or physical health of the mother is at stake.


Reason 1 & 3 in your 'not acceptable' list seem to be the same and they somewhat contradict reason 1 in your 'acceptable' list (child not wanted).

In general I agree with your lists though. Abortion should not be used as just a form of contraception, but neither do I think it should be forbidden to do so. People should just be encouraged to use regular forms of birth control instead.
The terms for when an abortion is allowed and when not should be based upon scientific facts instead of assumptions/beliefs. And the life of the mother should always prevail over that of her unborn child.

Just my 2 cents.


freakycactus
Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:25:44 AM

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clum wrote:


Well, yes and no. If a woman feels she is no more than an incubator, and she's bearing the child completely against her will, of course I don't support that.

What if it were the other way around, and she wanted to keep the child while he did not? She could decide to do that and either force him into fatherhood or choose to be a single parent. My point is that he does not have that choice.

I just don't think the woman's preference should take precedence over the man's. There should be a dialogue until they come to a decision they are both happy (or at least not unhappy) with, but the father's opinion should not simply be dismissed when it is at odds with the mother's.

As I see it, two adults get themselves into this situation (putting aside rape) and they should be able to decide between them, on completely equal terms, what to do about it.

Am I idealistic? Perhaps.


It would be nice if that could happen and yes it is possible to force a man into fatherhood.

Having said that, if I found myself pregnant and wanting to keep the baby when the father didn't, if I felt I could manage as a single parent then I would probably have the baby against his wishes and would repeatedly tell him, 'tough', and I would even tell him that as I would be the one growing the child he could fuck off telling me what to do with my body. A contradiction, I know but it's a very difficult and emotive subject.

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