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Washington Redskins: Time to change the name? Options · View
LadyX
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 8:28:52 AM

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TEAM FACES MOUNTING PRESSURE, PROTESTS TO CHANGE NAME

EL PASO, TX (AP) -- Dozens of protestors once again met spectators at the gates on Sunday afternoon as the El Paso Wetbacks took on the Wichita Eagles, the fourth straight protest at a home game this season. Since the beginning of the season, the El Paso ownership has come under increased pressure from fans and Latino advocacy groups to remove the mascot and name from the team, as it's widely considered a pejorative, racially insensitive term.

John Stanford, CEO and President of the El Paso team, has repeatedly stated that there will be no discussion of, let alone change to, the team name at any point in time.

"We're the Wetbacks forever," Stanford said, noting that the name goes back generations, and insisting that despite the increasing calls for a new name, there's no evidence that any racism or animosity is intended with it's present day use. Many fans have come to Stanford and the team's defense.

"It's just a team name," said Jim Bob Carter, an El Paso season ticket holder. "Hell, I don't think it has anything to do with Mexican people at all. And if you think about it, what's braver than swimming across a river to try to make a better life? To me, when I think 'Wetback', I think honor and bravery among those people."

Nevertheless, Latino focus groups routinely consider the term "Wetback" to be synonymous with a perceived criminal underclass of Hispanic immigrants. And while many local El Pasoans have a hard time reconciling their long-standing team name with what they recognize as an offensive word, others believe tradition and a lack of animosity toward Latin Americans renders the issue moot.

"I know lots of people are upset with it, and I understand," said Joe Logan, a casual fan of the team and El Paso resident. "But they've always just been the Wetbacks, you know? I have lots of Hispanic friends that root for that team, so what's the big deal? It's just a name."

--
1lush
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 9:04:26 AM

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Was never a fan of Washington, but changing their name seems silly. Where will this political correctness end. The KC Chiefs , Oakland Raiders ,Pittsburg Steelers I mean all these name can have a alternate meaning, if someone takes the time OVERTHINK it. Only my opinion here not trying to offend anyone.
ByronLord
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 9:50:09 AM

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Highwayman wrote:
Gladiators, hairy assholes, over paid dicks. Who cares? Grab a six pack, and the nachos and enjoy. Why so serious?


Because a lot of people don't care for the game but the sight of tens of thousand people cheering on the Washington Redskins with fake tomahawks is just as offensive as those people cheering on the Washington Spiks playing in Belsen uniforms would be.

Because these teams pig off the public trough, taking state and city subsidies to build stadiums for what is a highly profitable enterprise for virtually no economic benefits in return (no sports stadiums do not pay for themselves, not when they are used ten times a year, even baseball stadiums are marginal economically).

The American Indian holocaust was bigger than Hitler's genocide in the number of people killed and the duration.

The name Indians has been unused in the NFL since the 1920s.

Guest
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 2:00:19 PM

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LadyX wrote:


You're right, they're offended by much, much more than the Washington NFL team's logo and name. I'm willing to hear them out on those things too, aren't you? If not, then why wouldn't you be?
I have much respect for native Americans, and thier culture. Of course i listen, But unfortunately, you and I can't change things, we can only show support for them( minor help). The more serious, and legitimate grievances Native Americans have had have been given the 'Deaf Ear treatment' by those who can directly make an impact for them.

When i happen to cheer on the Redskins, i'm rooting for a football team, not mocking the native American community.
Rembacher
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 4:31:28 PM

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Ajax wrote:
When i happen to cheer on the Redskins, i'm rooting for a football team, not mocking the native American community.


No. You're doing both. You are showing that you think that term is so harmless, maybe even amusing, it can be used as a nickname in popular culture. The patronizing message to the First Nations in this case is "lighten up; your history of being mistreated and killed because of your skin colour was a long time ago, and we've got more important things to worry about now. Enjoy the game!"

Only the offended group can decide that it is no longer being offended. "That's the way it's always been." Is not justification. Just because the US was once a racist country does not make it right for it to continue using racist terms. By that logic, maybe schools should still be segregated. Blacks in one, whites in another. Maybe even further, girls in one school, boys in another. I mean, that's how it always was for a long time. There are many other examples I could use. But hopefully that example is enough to show you how absurd tradition is as a justification for racially offensive language.
doctorlove
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 5:47:41 PM

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Why do people find this so harmful? This shows alot of respect to any Native American. A football team is a bunch of men out to battle, brave men working hard to make a living. Hell, if Native Americans dont like it, I vote lets change the name and never ever recognize native americans again. Change every town in America that has the name of a tribe. Lets name the states that have cities or towns named after a tribe, how about all of them. Lets change all the names and take the Native Americans out of the history books so they will stop the bitching.
Rembacher
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 5:52:49 PM

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doctorlove wrote:
Why do people find this so harmful? This shows alot of respect to any Native American.


Read the rest of the responses in the thread. If you think that calling someone a Redskin is showing respect to a Native American, then I can't explain this to you. But please, whatever you do, do not pay your respects to them in person, and definitely do not show respect to any black people by calling them "niggers" either.

It won't exactly end well for you.
bat
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 6:27:35 PM

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I AM a Redskins fan ...and a Native American...
both All of my life ...My dad was a skins fan too..... the Native way is to LOVE.....

Quit being so sensitive ......WE ARE ALL ONE !! You GO Boys !!!



Infinite Love IS the Only Truth...Everything else IS Illusion!



http://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/my-own-slow-ride.aspx

bat
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 6:34:28 PM

Rank: Bat out of Hell

Joined: 3/18/2012
Posts: 2,220
Location: Teleporting anywhere I would like
I AM a Redskins fan ...and a Native American...
both All of my life ...My dad was a skins fan too..... the Native way is to LOVE.....

Quit being so sensitive ......WE ARE ALL ONE !! You GO Boys !!!


REDSKIN CHEERLEADERS

Infinite Love IS the Only Truth...Everything else IS Illusion!



http://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/my-own-slow-ride.aspx

sprite
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 6:35:41 PM

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1lush wrote:
Was never a fan of Washington, but changing their name seems silly. Where will this political correctness end. The KC Chiefs , Oakland Raiders ,Pittsburg Steelers I mean all these name can have a alternate meaning, if someone takes the time OVERTHINK it. Only my opinion here not trying to offend anyone.


Cheif is a names used in reverence my most native americans from my understanding. Redskins is a racial slur. not sure how Raiders or Steelers is demeaning a culture or a race? and btw, Redskins really has only ONE meaning, and you really don't need to over think iit.

Live, love, laugh.
LadyX
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 6:50:48 PM

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doctorlove wrote:
Why do people find this so harmful? This shows alot of respect to any Native American. A football team is a bunch of men out to battle, brave men working hard to make a living. Hell, if Native Americans dont like it, I vote lets change the name and never ever recognize native americans again. Change every town in America that has the name of a tribe. Lets name the states that have cities or towns named after a tribe, how about all of them. Lets change all the names and take the Native Americans out of the history books so they will stop the bitching.


Wow.
sprite
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 6:58:00 PM

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LadyX wrote:


Wow.


double wow.

Live, love, laugh.
Dani
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 7:03:42 PM

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Nightmare414 wrote:
No - leave the name alone - it is so silly with all the problems this world faces , that a debate like this has to take place. What a total waste of time


So because there are problems in the world, this should be looked over? If you break your leg, should a doctor say, "Eh, just a broken leg. There are children dying in Cambodia. This is such a waste of time."

As to the original question, yes, I think it is time for a change. Yes, it's tradition. But then again, going out and finding a black man and hanging him for the fun of it was tradition a long time ago (It's where we get the term 'Picnic'). Times are changing. So should this team name/logo.



doc73
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 8:28:58 PM

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leave it
1lush
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 8:29:16 PM

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There are way to many other ways that the Native Americans were taken advantage of besides the nickname of a football team. Everyday someone somewhere is made fun of or ridiculed in some way. If all teams were called only by the state the represent that would please everyone......wait they have 2 teams in New York should large people be offended by Giants?
Guest
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 8:39:13 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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If this didn't do it, I doubt anything will. Hold true to what is self evident. Love watching football. But, if it was gone tomorrow i'd be okay. Redskins, Indians, Blackhawks, seems the NBA thought more clearly.
goofygus42
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 9:14:22 PM

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Not NO but heck NO.


You know those guys on the corner with signs that say "Will Work For Food"? I sit on Canal street with a sign that says "Will Do Anything For Pussy".
Buz
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 9:15:26 PM

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Like I have already stated, as part Native-American, I am not in any way offended by Braves, Chiefs, Indians, Seminoles, Warriors, Black Hawks, etc., but there is no reasonable and intelligent way to defend Redskins. It is an offensive racial slur period! It is derogatory and demeaning to Native-Americans.

How ironic that it was the leaders in Washington that stole the Cherokee lands and sent the US Army to herd us up like cattle and move us a thousand miles so that they could give our stolen farms and homes to their greedy white politically influential friends. Half the Cherokee people died on the way to Oklahoma, especially the elderly, the women and the children. A huge stain on American history along with that evil called slavery. US President Andrew Jackson is on equal terms with Adolph Hitler! A mass murdering racist bigoted piece of shit!

Dan Snyder, who owns the Redskins is Jewish, how would he like a team called the Washington Hymies? Or the Washington Big Nosed Jews? Or Washington Kikes? Those names are certainly no less offensive, bigoted and racist as Redskins.

I have an even better suggestion for Mr. Dan 'the Bigot' Snyder, how about Washington Foreskins?



Rembacher
Posted: Monday, September 16, 2013 9:42:46 PM

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1lush wrote:
There are way to many other ways that the Native Americans were taken advantage of besides the nickname of a football team. Everyday someone somewhere is made fun of or ridiculed in some way. If all teams were called only by the state the represent that would please everyone......wait they have 2 teams in New York should large people be offended by Giants?


I'm not sure whether you are purposely being difficult, or if you are really missing the point that badly. Calling a large person a giant, and calling a Native American a Redskin are NOT EVEN CLOSE to being comparable. Redskin goes so far beyond being "made fun of, or ridiculed in some way." I think you need to read a history book or two. Or even just start by reading Buz's latest post.

And to reiterate what Buz said, Braves, Chiefs, Indians, Seminoles, Warriors, Black Hawks, are not offensive. Those are groups of people. There is nothing offensive to naming your team after a group of people. Naming a team Cowboys, Rangers, or Islanders is not offensive to Cowboys, Rangers, or Islanders. To suggest that naming your team Chiefs is as offensive as naming it Redskins demonstrates either a complete lack of understanding of the separate uses of those two terms; or a belief that all things Native American are offensive, which is a belief that is pretty damn close to racist, if it isn't entirely racist.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:09:42 AM

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Personally, they should just call themselves RG3. It contemporary, hip and the only basis for them actually being a point of any conversation.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 1:42:34 PM

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I did a little research on the Redskin's history. When the organization changed the team name from Braves to 'Redskins' in 1932/33 , It was a co- owners idea because the head coach of the team at the time was part Sioux Indian. If that's true, i'm sure they didn't agree on "Redskins" to insult the guy lol. Also from what i understand 'Redskin' was once used in a positive way. It just kind of evolved into an offensive racial slur for some.


Also, The team chose the Redskin name prior to moving to Washington. So we can't fault our Nations Capital for anything.


They tried forcing the team to change It's name back in 1992, look how that turned out. Just fyi
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:47:39 PM

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redskins

It's funny, just a block from me there's a site where construction has ceased in this burgeoning Miami metropolis. The construction stopped because of two things, remains of the Tequesta Indian tribe, and some remnants of the old Flagler Royal Palm Hotel. There are two people who dig every day in the Miami heat (pun intended). No Seminoles, no Cherokee, and no Miccosukee anywhere. The Miccosukee tribe live about 15 minutes away, but have yet to make a visit to their founding fathers. For the past seven months, it's been two people. A man and a woman who are actually concerned about preserving and respecting people.

Across the street, construction was stopped for a while while the remains of 500 Tequesta Indians were found. The Seminole tribe came down, collected the remains that others labored to secure, and then buried them elsewhere.

If honor is so important, then I would think some other natives should get their asses down to Miami, and help the two people preserving their heritage. But, it's easier to harp on some bullshit like a team that has not been in the news since Riggins and Theisman actually made a difference. Here we go again, boo fucking hoo! You're making a mockery of my people. It's like the fat old Cubans sitting at Versailles on 8th Street talking about what they will do once the Castro brothers are out of luck.

Shhhhh, if you're so proud, get your ass down to Miami and help preserve your history. Otherwise, shut the fuck up and enjoy the game.

http://youtu.be/aVX-voqWuwY


Rembacher
Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 3:49:05 PM

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Highwayman wrote:
redskins

It's funny, just a block from me there's a site where construction has ceased in this burgeoning Miami metropolis. The construction stopped because of two things, remains of the Tequesta Indian tribe, and some remnants of the old Flagler Royal Palm Hotel. There are two people who dig every day in the Miami heat (pun intended). No Seminoles, no Cherokee, and no Miccosukee anywhere. The Miccosukee tribe live about 15 minutes away, but have yet to make a visit to their founding fathers. For the past seven months, it's been two people. A man and a woman who are actually concerned about preserving and respecting people.

Across the street, construction was stopped for a while while the remains of 500 Tequesta Indians were found. The Seminole tribe came down, collected the remains that others labored to secure, and then buried them elsewhere.

If honor is so important, then I would think some other natives should get their asses down to Miami, and help the two people preserving their heritage. But, it's easier to harp on some bullshit like a team that has not been in the news since Riggins and Theisman actually made a difference. Here we go again, boo fucking hoo! You're making a mockery of my people. It's like the fat old Cubans sitting at Versailles on 8th Street talking about what they will do once the Castro brothers are out of luck.

Shhhhh, if you're so proud, get your ass down to Miami and help preserve your history. Otherwise, shut the fuck up and enjoy the game.

http://youtu.be/aVX-voqWuwY




This is really starting to stretch. We are talking about using a racial slur. Not about respecting heritage. You are lumping all first nations into one group. They were all distinct tribes, some who were friendly with each other, and some who warred with each other. Expecting one to take care of the remains of another would be like expecting Irish people to take care of English remains, just because they are both white. On top of that, most municipalities have very strict rules on who can participate in an archaeological dig like that. So they probably wouldn't have been able to help even if they wanted to.

From your own wikipedia link:
Quote:
It is later that the term became more pejorative. A linguistic analysis of books published between 1875 and 1930 show an increasingly negative context in the use of redskin, often in association with "dirty", "lying", etc.; while benign or positive usage such as "noble" redskin were used in a condescending manner.[4] The term continued in common use until the 1960s, as evidenced in Western movies, but is now largely considered a pejorative and is seldom used publicly aside from football teams.

That, and that alone, is why the team name should be changed. It's a name that was so distasteful that society stopped using it.
Rembacher
Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 3:56:18 PM

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Ajax wrote:
I did a little research on the Redskin's history. When the organization changed the team name from Braves to 'Redskins' in 1932/33 , It was a co- owners idea because the head coach of the team at the time was part Sioux Indian. If that's true, i'm sure they didn't agree on "Redskins" to insult the guy lol. Also from what i understand 'Redskin' was once used in a positive way. It just kind of evolved into an offensive racial slur for some.


Also, The team chose the Redskin name prior to moving to Washington. So we can't fault our Nations Capital for anything.


They tried forcing the team to change It's name back in 1992, look how that turned out. Just fyi


You've heard of the term "patronizing" right? The rich guy in charge of the team tells his coach "here you go, we named it Redskins, after you!" Doesn't mean he actually liked the name, or that it was right to use the name. And yes, Redskin started out as a positive name. So did many names we used to call black people. It's what those names became that makes us not use them anymore. See my previous post for wikipedia's take on how the word's use evolved. Again, that is why it shouldn't be used as a team name.

Just because a previous attempt to change it didn't work, that doesn't make the word any less offensive.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 6:11:13 PM

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Rembacher wrote:


You've heard of the term "patronizing" right? The rich guy in charge of the team tells his coach "here you go, we named it Redskins, after you!" Doesn't mean he actually liked the name, or that it was right to use the name. And yes, Redskin started out as a positive name. So did many names we used to call black people. It's what those names became that makes us not use them anymore. See my previous post for wikipedia's take on how the word's use evolved. Again, that is why it shouldn't be used as a team name.

Just because a previous attempt to change it didn't work, that doesn't make the word any less offensive.
It shows, not everyone agree's, it is all that offensive. One may view 'Redneck' as being far more offensive than 'Redskin'. Seems people are getting more and more offended by pettiness and looking for a reason to get offended.

Believe it or not, there are women out there who take offense with The University of Alabama, for using a name like 'Crimson Tide'. It's only a matter of time before they storm campus administration armed with maxipads.


SydneySider
Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:07:51 PM

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dont be messing with these...



kylie_kained
Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:46:15 PM

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I'm not your side of the pond but how about the Washington Foreskins they could even be a clean cut team?
















Ruthie
Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:00:47 PM

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Ajax wrote:


Believe it or not, there are women out there who take offense with The University of Alabama, for using a name like 'Crimson Tide'. It's only a matter of time before they storm campus administration armed with maxipads.




bs
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 10:36:13 PM

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Not lumping, unless all human beings are to be categorized. Each separate from one another. That is a fault.

Taking part in, and totally ignoring something are distinct and evident.

If society stopped using it, then just change it. There, hope that was not a stretch for you.



sprite
Posted: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:43:49 AM

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Ajax wrote:

Believe it or not, there are women out there who take offense with The University of Alabama, for using a name like 'Crimson Tide'. It's only a matter of time before they storm campus administration armed with maxipads.




dude, seriously, you seriously went there? i thing you just shot a bit more of your credibility in the foot.

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