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Time to Ban and Burn confederate flags Options · View
Shylass
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 5:14:26 PM

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Posts: 3,684
Location: Trumpton, United Kingdom
How come the Dukes of Hazzard had the flag on their car? I see that flag and think of them.



But then, my American heritage was diluted by living in England. Apart from the cover of a book on the civil war, on that car was the only place I've really seen it. I think I'll get that book out and read it! book




Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet.

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LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 5:32:44 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart
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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
Magical_felix wrote:


You're so intolerant.


I'm intolerant of intolerance. :)
Red_Dragon
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 5:38:11 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/4/2011
Posts: 768
Location: Charleston , United States
coffeekid63 wrote:
Some folks really need to learn their history ( not the revisionist crap they teach in schools these days) The Civil War started over states rights slavery didn't become the main issue until Lincoln issued the Emaciation Proclamation I think tying the Confederate flag to just that issue is an over simplification, a good comparison might be the " Don't tread on me" flag which stood for the same thing. Please don't misunderstand I'm not advocating any agenda just that some times we need to know more of the "why's" for things. Didn't mean to step on any ones toes.



I think you should study your history prior to the civil war and you would see what really inflamed the north and south carolina

elitfromnorth
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 5:44:32 PM

Rank: Brawling Berserker

Joined: 2/12/2012
Posts: 1,635
Location: Burrowed, Norway
If the Confederate flag is supposed to symbolise hard work and church on the Sunday and all that then they've done one shitty job at marketing it for that purpose. To me it is THE symbol of American stupidity, racism, bigotry, opressing, Bible bashing, intolerance and a bunch of other things, simply because the ones wielding it have been spewing this crap. Banning it isn't the solution, you just have to educate people, although given that the states and different schoolboards have so much liberty in what is to be taught at school it will take some time before that happens. In the meantime, let me turn your attention to this picture. Notice the caption in the bottom. Kinda sums it up...



"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
Red_Dragon
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 5:49:11 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/4/2011
Posts: 768
Location: Charleston , United States
Tranquil wrote:
[quote=Magical_felix]

I guess it's kinda the difference between a cross and an upside down cross. I guess once you have seen both it's obvious. I imagine that most of the eastern world and the educated western world knows the difference. I think if people saw a buddhist temple with the symbol incorporated into the architecture of the building they would hardly think they were Nazis. That said I have learned to never underestimate the ignorance of people. [/quote


I feel ignorance is the biggest down fall of man kind (well up there with Greed).



In answer to your first question Yes he does have the right to wave that flag by law and as any real American will tell you. We will defend his right even if we dont agree with it

Miss_Michelle
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:02:26 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/11/2011
Posts: 169
Location: United States
The confederate flag isn't about racism or oppression its heritage that goes back hundreds of years and those who don't understand it needs to educate themselves about the flag. Ignorant people make me mad.
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:05:55 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 6,102
Location: California
LadyX wrote:


I'm intolerant of intolerance. :)


Ignoramus.

Buz wrote:


If you want to go around banning and censoring you should take a look at yourself in the mirror to see intolerance.


That's what I've been trying to tell LadyX but her head is like a jar of mayonnaise dude.



Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:08:13 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 6,102
Location: California
shelley2013 wrote:
The confederate flag isn't about racism or oppression its heritage that goes back hundreds of years and those who don't understand it needs to educate themselves about the flag. Ignorant people make me mad.


We know it makes you mad, that's why the south got their asses kicked over it.



Dani
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:14:53 PM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch
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Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 6,147
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
shelley2013 wrote:
The confederate flag isn't about racism or oppression its heritage that goes back hundreds of years and those who don't understand it needs to educate themselves about the flag. Ignorant people make me mad.


What heritage? And why does everyone cry 'ignorance' just because people have an understanding of what the flag represents that disagrees with their own? That in and of itself is ignorant. Denying that the Confederate flag is used by most many as a symbol for racism and intolerance is also ignorant.

And if the Confederate flag represents hard work, whose hard work are we talking about?



Guest
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:36:50 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 694,105
Ajax wrote:
This is a National Confederate flag





*i'm ok, with this flag. * Very honorable Southern symbol, if you want to go that route.


The flag in my first post is considered as a battle flag. Georgia no longer incorporates that design in it's State flag. Mississipi does but, what has four "I's " and can't see?


BTW the national Confederate flag was the Bonnie Blue which consisted of a Blue Field with one single White Star in the center was the flag that most southerners would die for. The Stars and Bars which people concieve as THE confederate flag was simply a battle flag. There were 11 confederate states the one you poted is not correct plese be factual.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EouFAM25K7E/S8fPwTdjYoI/AAAAAAAACkU/KhwAq0NarLo/s1600/CSA+National+Flag.jpg
http://www.usaflags.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/o/bonnie-blue-flag.jpg
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:43:53 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 6,102
Location: California
Angie57 wrote:


BTW the national Confederate flag was the Bonnie Blue which consisted of a Blue Field with one single White Star in the center was the flag that most southerners would die for. The Stars and Bars which people concieve as THE confederate flag was simply a battle flag. There were 11 confederate states the one you poted is not correct plese be factual.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EouFAM25K7E/S8fPwTdjYoI/AAAAAAAACkU/KhwAq0NarLo/s1600/CSA+National+Flag.jpg
http://www.usaflags.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/o/bonnie-blue-flag.jpg


So the flag everyone claims is the one representing their southern heritage really isn't even the one that represents southern heritage? It's just a battle flag in a war fought over slavery? LOL talk about ignorance.

Your grammar is getting better too, Angie. Awesome! The real winners are the kids.



Guest
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:52:38 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 694,105
Magical_felix wrote:


We know it makes you mad, that's why the south got their asses kicked over it.


The reason we got our asses kiced was monatary. Had the French an English sided with the Confederacy the south would have had the money manpower and equpment to continue the the fight. Unfortunately had the South been victorious we most likely would all be socialist now as Jefferson was a Socialist.
The Army of the potomic was poorly trained and had poor leadership even after Grant was made chief commander. The south ran out of money and ad nowhere near the manpower that the north had.
Another fact 4 slave states sided with the north: Missouri, Delaware, Kentucky and Maryland.
It has become a moral issue in the 20th century
Yes we are proud and will still fight to protect our honor.
American by birth; SOUTHERN by the Grace of God
Trust me i dont take this all that serious but I am VERY PROUD of my heritage
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:59:32 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 6,102
Location: California
Angie57 wrote:


The reason we got our asses kiced was monatary. Had the French an English sided with the Confederacy the south would have had the money manpower and equpment to continue the the fight. Unfortunately had the South been victorious we most likely would all be socialist now as Jefferson was a Socialist.
The Army of the potomic was poorly trained and had poor leadership even after Grant was made chief commander. The south ran out of money and ad nowhere near the manpower that the north had.
Another fact 4 slave states sided with the north: Missouri, Delaware, Kentucky and Maryland.
It has become a moral issue in the 20th century
Yes we are proud and will still fight to protect our honor.
American by birth; SOUTHERN by the Grace of God
Trust me i dont take this all that serious but I am VERY PROUD of my heritage



I meant they got mad over the slave thing to begin with and seceded. I know why they logistically lost the war.





sprite
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 7:07:11 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
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Posts: 17,612
Location: My Tower, United States
shelley2013 wrote:
The confederate flag isn't about racism or oppression its heritage that goes back hundreds of years and those who don't understand it needs to educate themselves about the flag. Ignorant people make me mad.


ok, educate us then. what is it about?

Live, love, laugh.
Buz
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 7:23:14 PM

Rank: The Linebacker
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Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 8,067
Location: Atlanta, United States
The Civil War is old history. More northerners were killed winning the war than southerners losing it. More Americans were killed in it than any other war, because they were all Americans. The slave holding northern states did not end slavery until 2 years after the war was over. Weird but true. Most civil wars end with a long post war blood purge. This one didn't. Reconstruction pales in comparison to the aftermath of nearly every other nation's civil wars in history. Lincoln wanted an even more forgiving Reconstruction plan and to spend more money rebuilding the South, but some idiot actor shot him. The amazing part is how the nation healed itself and united again. It took much longer for racial equality and there still is the problem of racism in America which exists in equal abundance all over the country. Historically most of the largest and most violent racial clashes and riots happened in New York City and Chicago in the early 1900s.

While the South was forced by the federal government to deal directly with racial injustice in the 1960s, much of the North ignored theirs, hence the massive riots in Boston over school integration and busing in the 1970s. If you notice the 'oh so progressive' California was one of the states included in the Voters Rights Act in the 1960s for its proclivity to racial suppression in voting. (So was the state of Maine...that one was a surprise to me.)

Give the Civil War a rest. The combatants died along time ago, their children and children's children are dead and gone also. The flag is just a historic flag. The USA fought against the tyranny of the Union Jack in 2 different wars and now the United Kingdom is one of our staunchest allies.

Since the Civil War, Americans have united to fight bleed and die together in many wars, including the one that rid the world of Hitler and his Nazi devils and the equally racist master-race believing Japanese Empire.

I am a southerner and I had a direct ancestor that was hung to death pre-Civil War for helping slaves escape to freedom.

I fly 2 flags at my house. The American flag and the flag of my college football team.

Buz
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 7:26:32 PM

Rank: The Linebacker
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Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 8,067
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Magical_felix wrote:


That's what I've been trying to tell LadyX but her head is like a jar of mayonnaise dude.


Dude you have the hots for her so bad!

sprite
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 7:38:06 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 17,612
Location: My Tower, United States
Angie57 wrote:


The reason we got our asses kiced was monatary. Had the French an English sided with the Confederacy the south would have had the money manpower and equpment to continue the the fight. Unfortunately had the South been victorious we most likely would all be socialist now as Jefferson was a Socialist.
The Army of the potomic was poorly trained and had poor leadership even after Grant was made chief commander. The south ran out of money and ad nowhere near the manpower that the north had.
Another fact 4 slave states sided with the north: Missouri, Delaware, Kentucky and Maryland.
It has become a moral issue in the 20th century
Yes we are proud and will still fight to protect our honor.
American by birth; SOUTHERN by the Grace of God
Trust me i dont take this all that serious but I am VERY PROUD of my heritage


people have every right to be proud of their heritage. they should also have every right to run around waving whatever flat they wish. that said, i wish they would pause for a moment and think about what that flag represents. i would expect that, while someone with german ancestry should and would be proud of people like Beetovhen and Einstein and Martin Luthor, most aren't going to be proud of the Nazi flag.

something I'd like to point out, btw, i do realize there are things to be proud of in the south - not sure if everyone is aware of this, but the South's commander in chief, Robert E. Lee let go of his slaves, freed them, before taking command. Jazz and the blues were invented in the south. MLK was born in Memphis. That all said, it's not the flat, per se - it's the attitude that we, as "outsiders" see when the flag is brought out - it seems to come with an attitude of bigotry and intolerance and a firm belief in that the south will rise again (and i can only assume that rising includes a return to slavery). is that an accurate POV? perhaps not, but if it's a common misconception, then perhaps they need to look into a little better PR...

Live, love, laugh.
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 7:40:04 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 6,102
Location: California
Buz wrote:
The flag is just a historic flag.


Yeah but it represents a really ugly part of history. The civil war was fought over slavery. That flag was the one used by the side that didn't want to give up their slaves. The Nazi flag is also just a historic flag too. Can you imagine Germans flying the Nazi flag in England or Poland and saying "It's just part of our history, our heritage." when confronted? It would seem like a bit of a bitch out.



sprite
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 7:44:32 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
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Posts: 17,612
Location: My Tower, United States
Magical_felix wrote:


Yeah but it represents a really ugly part of history. The civil war was fought over slavery. That flag was the one used by the side that didn't want to give up their slaves. The Nazi flag is also just a historic flag too. Can you imagine Germans flying the Nazi flag in England or Poland and saying "It's just part of our history, our heritage." when confronted? It would seem like a bit of a bitch out.


i am guessing that most people of German heritage are embarrassed and ashamed of the nazi flag - and another thing, seems that the only place it's really ever seen is here in America, being brandished by white supremists...

Live, love, laugh.
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 7:47:03 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 6,102
Location: California
sprite wrote:


i am guessing that most people of German heritage are embarrassed and ashamed of the nazi flag - and another thing, seems that the only place it's really ever seen is here in America, being brandished by white supremists...


It's banned in Germany. I was using it as an example of it being "just a historic flag" that represents an ugly part of history and used mostly for hate.



sprite
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 7:50:53 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
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Magical_felix wrote:


It's banned in Germany. I was using it as an example of it being a "just a historic flag" that represents an ugly part of history and used mostly for hate.


i wasn't aware of that, but yes, it makes sense, and yes, it's not "just a historic flag" - it represents, among other things, the systematic attempted genocide of an entire people, just as, to many, the confederate flag represents the enslavement of an entire people. that is what needs to be understood here, and it's a belief that doesn't seem to have disappeared - i see it wielded by bigots and intolerant people - are they all? i don't know, but the loudest of them are, and the rest are being represented by them, whether they wish to be or not.

Live, love, laugh.
CharlotteRusse1
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:03:19 PM

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Joined: 1/9/2011
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I don't think the guy who was waving that flag was trying to make the point that he was proud to be from Mississippi or Georgia. He was trying to make the point that he wishes the South had won the civil war and he didn't have to have a black man as president.

That's my most polite interpretation of the intent of waving a Confederate battle flag (not a state flag) in front of the white house.

Yes he's free to do it. Yes it's Offensive (with a capital O).

CR

Writer of amateur erotica since 2011..See the latest at:

[url=http://www.lushstories.com/stories/reluctance/the-chaise-lounge.aspx]
Buz
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:13:23 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:


Yeah but it represents a really ugly part of history. The civil war was fought over slavery. That flag was the one used by the side that didn't want to give up their slaves. The Nazi flag is also just a historic flag too. Can you imagine Germans flying the Nazi flag in England or Poland and saying "It's just part of our history, our heritage." when confronted? It would seem like a bit of a bitch out.


The war was about economics (egrarian vs industrial) and states rights (confederation style vs. federal power) and the expansion of slavery, not giving up slaves. Of course it makes a much more glamorous story to say the war started to free the slaves. Lincoln had no plan at all to try and take the slaves away. There wouldn't have been enough congressional votes to get such a bill out of committee at the time and would have been at least 2 decades away. He didn't like slavery of course and would've loved it to end, but his only plan when elected was to keep it from expanding. The Emancipation Proclamation came about 2 years into the war as a military strategic manuever as much as anything. With the south's men fighting at the front, the labor keeping them at the front came from slaves. An Emancipation Proclamation would provoke mass revolt, so hoped Lincoln, forcing the soldiers to come home and leave the front. It didn't happen like that but it was a good theory. When the war got started it did give abolitionist the opportunity they needed to exploit their desires to end slavery, which did need to be ended. It should have been ended when the Constitution was ratified.

Lincoln was a strong believer in federal government, which was radically unpopular on the south. Before the Civil War most people felt as much if not more loyalty to their state than the USA. If you'll notice documents, newspapers, etc. before the Civil War always say 'the United States of America' or even 'the united States of America' and after the war the 'the' and the 'u' always becomes capitalized, 'The United States of America,' as it should be. People are a product of their time. like Romans screaming for human blood in the Coliseum just to be entertained and saw nothing morally wrong with that.

History can be ugly. The United States stole Indian lands, massacred Indians, and forced them to migrate, dying on the way, to new lands. Actually Americans committed mass genocide on the Native-Americans and the region that killed the most is the north and midwest. Slavery was once legal in ALL states of the USA. New England merchant ships brought the slaves to the south. So should we get a new American flag? What does our flag represent?

Tranquil
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:16:40 PM

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Location: Curled up in front of a beautiful fire


Just can't imagine the General Lee with a different flag. hmmm childhood memories. loved that show.

Check Out

https://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/curiosity-of-the-female-form.aspx
https://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/sixty-nine.aspx
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:22:51 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 694,105
Unbelievable, really , you are that much against the US Constitution that you would void the 1st Amendment
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:23:44 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 694,105
Tranquil wrote:


Just can't imagine the General Lee with a different flag. hmmm childhood memories. loved that show.



“You can’t drive your SUVs, eat what you want, and heat your homes to 72 degrees and expect other countries to just say OK. That’s not leadership. That’s not going to happen.”

Good thing the General Lee was not SUV.
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:24:15 PM

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Joined: 6/18/2010
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Buz wrote:


ple are a product of their time. like Romans screaming for human blood in the Coliseum just to be entertained and saw nothing morally wrong with that.

History can be ugly. The United States stole Indian lands, massacred Indians, and forced them to migrate, dying on the way, to new lands. Actually Americans committed mass genocide on the Native-Americans and the region that killed the most is the north and midwest. Slavery was once legal in ALL states of the USA. New England merchant ships brought the slaves to the south. So should we get a new American flag? What does our flag represent?


there's a difference... i think that, if i were to walk into a native american reservation flying the flag of the 7th US calvary along with an american flag, they would have a right to be offended - i think that's the comparison you need to draw here.

Live, love, laugh.
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:34:50 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 6,102
Location: California
Buz wrote:


The war was about economics (egrarian vs industrial) and states rights (confederation style vs. federal power) and the expansion of slavery, not giving up slaves. Of course it makes a much more glamorous story to say the war started to free the slaves. Lincoln had no plan at all to try and take the slaves away. There wouldn't have been enough congressional votes to get such a bill out of committee at the time and would have been at least 2 decades away. He didn't like slavery of course and would've loved it to end, but his only plan when elected was to keep it from expanding. The Emancipation Proclamation came about 2 years into the war as a military strategic manuever as much as anything. With the south's men fighting at the front, the labor keeping them at the front came from slaves. An Emancipation Proclamation would provoke mass revolt, so hoped Lincoln, forcing the soldiers to come home and leave the front. It didn't happen like that but it was a good theory. When the war got started it did give abolitionist the opportunity they needed to exploit their desires to end slavery, which did need to be ended. It should have been ended when the Constitution was ratified.

Lincoln was a strong believer in federal government, which was radically unpopular on the South. Before the Civil War most people felt as much if not more loyalty to their state than the USA. If you'll notice documents, newspapers, etc. before the Civil War always say 'the United States of America' or even 'the united States of America' and after the war the 'the' and the 'u' always becomes capitalized, 'The United States of America,' as it should be. People are a product of their time. like Romans screaming for human blood in the Coliseum just to be entertained and saw nothing morally wrong with that.

History can be ugly. The United States stole Indian lands, massacred Indians, and forced them to migrate, dying on the way, to new lands. Actually Americans committed mass genocide on the Native-Americans and the region that killed the most is the north and midwest. Slavery was once legal in ALL states of the USA. New England merchant ships brought the slaves to the south. So should we get a new American flag? What does our flag represent?


The southern states seceded because Lincoln wanted to stop the spread of slavery. Lincoln didn't need the support of the southern states so the South was like, "I say, I say fuck it! We don't take kindly to this notion of losing political sway. We are no longah part of this here Union." Since the South was increasingly becoming irrelevant when it came to polices, primarily slavery polices, they seceded to keep their slaves because eventually they were going to lose them. Then war broke out because you can't have states with militia running around thinking they can do whatever they cotton pickin' well pleased. Denying that that was the reason the civil war was started is a bit revisionist.



Buz
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:48:41 PM

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sprite wrote:


there's a difference... i think that, if i were to walk into a native american reservation flying the flag of the 7th US calvary along with an american flag, they would have a right to be offended - i think that's the comparison you need to draw here.


We're talking mass genocide. A few million Native-Americans died, especially the large tribes of the eastern USA. From around 4-5 million Native-Americans to around 600,000. Extermination! The giving of small pox blankets to wipe out entire villages and tribes, women, children and babies. Small pox was deadly to Native-Americans who had no anti-bodies in their blood against it. Mass murder in so many ways from the germ warfare, starvation and outright shooting them. The US Supreme Court going along with Pres. Andrew Jackson to move entire tribes and steal their legally held deeded lands. This is US History! Some of it is very ugly!

At least The Sioux & Cheyenne won one against the 7th Cavalry. But those were very small populated tribes compared to the ones that were the victims of genocide in the east. It is not popular to tell that story of our history.

As for the Confederate flag. I think its ridiculous to go around waving it at a political rally. It is divisive when used that way. It doesn't represent a war for liberty. I'd choose a flag from The Revolution. I know the Tea Party has picked up on the Don't Tread On Me Flag, which is an American Revolutionary flag. The way I see it is any American could wave that flag. Both sides at a rally should wave it at each other. Then maybe they'd all see how silly it is. Why wave someone else's flag from another time used by other people in another fight. Make a sign!

The gay movement came up with an original flag, the rainbow one. I say be original, don't tarnish or regurgitate something from the past.

coffeekid63
Posted: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:17:15 PM

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OK so who wants a beer, or a glass of wine ?.....I'm buyin....
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