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LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:21:54 PM

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"Born Free"

This got banned on youtube- it's intense and VERY graphic, so be prepared. It's also damn cool.
Rembacher
Posted: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:30:17 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,107
Very intense video. I see it as a statement against the Arizona immigration laws. But I could be wrong on that.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 10:20:22 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,033
I liked the guy getting blown up at the end. Cool!
I think you're probably right Jebru.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:51:16 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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It's actually represntative of how red-haired people are treated over here in the UK (obviously not to that extreme) but my God do they get picked on... and quite openly too...
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 10:03:22 AM

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Joined: 9/25/2009
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I hadn't heard that one Cupcake, and didn't know redheads were hated on so much over there.

Here's the wiki page on it- looks like there are lots of ideas on what it actually is about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_Free_(M.I.A._song)
Rembacher
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 10:14:51 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,107
HoneyCupcake wrote:
It's actually represntative of how red-haired people are treated over here in the UK (obviously not to that extreme) but my God do they get picked on... and quite openly too...


I thought about that possibility, but how do you explain the US flags on the soldiers' sleeves?
thepainter
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 10:28:39 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 1,353
Location: hell, Netherlands


Insert typical super smart ass comment courtesy of thepainter here.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 12:10:29 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,033
oh my fuck..gross but cool
LushPrincess
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 1:42:16 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 7/17/2008
Posts: 1,177
Location: AZ
Oh my, I had clicked on this thread before but I didn’t feel the need to watch the video. Jebru’s comment however made me think twice about doing so I’m directly affected by the “tough” immigration law in Arizona.

I’ve decided to share a little about my personal life with you guys, I’m not sure if this will violate any of the forum rules but if it does Nicola you are more than welcome to delete it. I’ve just been going through so much in my life, struggling with all kinds of things – I really hate to bitch about it but sometimes you just have to let it all out.

I’m hurt and angry with the way they’re trying to treat Latinos here in Arizona. You can bullshit me all you want about how it won’t lead or it’s not racially profiling but I won’t believe it. I CAN’T believe that if these “officers” see me and a blond girl with blue eyes walking right next to me, that they will stop HER and ask her for her papers. I may be wrong… but I don’t think so.

Ok I’ll drop this here, because in reality this is NOT what I wanted to tell you about. Twenty two years ago my father made a tough decision; he decided to bring us [my mother, five brothers and myself] to the U.S illegally.

It was a split second decision, no time to pack or to say goodbye to anybody. I was almost a year old at the time, now I love my Sinaloa and it’s a beautiful place, with beautiful people and a rich culture. BUT it’s run by the drug cartels – and they could give a rat’s ass about the citizens.

About a week before our departure, one of these gangsters came knocking at my uncle’s door. He told him he needed his land to cultivate some of their “herbs” he offered my uncle a small amount of money to move and start fresh [please keep in mind that they amount they offered him was a joke] of course he refused, the land was given to him by my grandfather and it was his family’s only means of survival. They told him to think about it, they would return in a few days. He did, he thought about it, talked to his family, and thought about it some more – in the end he stuck with his original decision; NO!

A few days later the guys came back, when my uncle explained to him that he could not give away his land they snapped – they’re not used to taking no for an answer. They did exactly what they were trained to do; they entered his house and brutally murdered his family. They killed him last, they made sure he SAW what his decision did ... his refusal took his family’s life.

We lived a couple of houses away, we heard all of the commotion but if you’re used to that kind of mayhem you know better than to even look out the window. My father never that this time his brother was on the receiving end of the slaughter. The next morning my father walked into my uncles house and found the bodies; along with a message. “[My father’s name, we tried to be nice. We’re not playing leave now or suffer the consequences.]” What other choice did he have? Our names where written in blood, literally.

We left, our struggle started with the crossing. Six days of walking under the scorching hot sun of the Arizona desert. We almost didn’t make it, my dad says that by the grace of God and that we had an Angel looking out for us – and I guess I believe him.

We had no one when we got here and not a penny in our name. My dad worked hard for years cramming us in a one bedroom apartment, we couldn’t afford anything else. We ate nothing but beans and rice and once a week we had the luxury of eating meat; my father as the bread winner got the first pick and I as the youngest almost never got anything but the bones to suck and boy where they delicious! Little by little and with the sweat from his forehead he raised enough money to start his own construction business and after a few years of struggling he became successful.

We moved out of that raggedy one bedroom and into a 5 bedroom home, my dad continued to be successful and started our immigration process – it took years, a lot of patience and tons of money before we could call ourselves U.S legal residents.

I know a lot of people want this whole immigration problem to be black and white, to find an easy fix but it’s not. We all have different reasons for coming here and sometimes you just can’t wait and do everything the legal way. Don’t judge us all because of what some people have done – in every culture in every race there will always be bad apples…

“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”
Guest
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 1:54:37 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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thanks for sharing that Mara...immigration isn't clear cut. Thanks for being so brave
ChelleLaBelle
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 2:26:30 PM

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Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 494
Location: Cincy, Ohio
You're very brave for sharing your story babe!
Guest
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 2:44:03 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,033
I am sorry for your loss. It must have been a very hard thing for your family but, you also have to understand that a lot of us have the same kinds of stories to tell about our families coming to the States as well. Most of us came in the front door at Ellis Island and tried to make an honest living. And as you point out, not all of the immigrants do things the legal way when they do get here. The illegal ones don't or didn't expect anything in return for being here. No health care, foodstamps,houses or jobs. We understand that there are already federal laws in place to handle illegals but, they're not being enforced. 70% of the people in Arizona wanted another avenue of help. That must be what the governor is trying to give them.
You're right, if you and a blond are walking down the street the blond won't be asked for papers. Just like the blond that gets on an airplane won't be picked out for a search either. The man with the dark skin and turban will be. Sometimes it's necessary. To think that you're the only people that have been or will be racially profiled, you'd be thinking wrong. Ask a black man. Ask a Native American. Ask a Japanese person. Ask a German. Ask a Vietnamese. I can go on and on but, you get the picture.
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:13:04 PM

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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,813
chefkathleen wrote:
I am sorry for your loss. It must have been a very hard thing for your family but, you also have to understand that a lot of us have the same kinds of stories to tell about our families coming to the States as well. Most of us came in the front door at Ellis Island


Back then they loaded up boats and dumped them off at Ellis Island. If they required you to have special skills, or college degrees, or an employer to vouch for you, or already have a brother/sister, or kid, or parent in the US back then, like they do now, then I bet not everyone would've come through the front door. Given the opportunities here, people would find a way, legally or not. It just so happens it was far easier back then to do it legally. It's easier to be honest when others make it easy to be honest.

The only other options now are to sit on a waiting list that's decades long, or apply for some kind of temporary visa, which is expensive and really no different than crossing illegally, since visas and passes expire after a short time. People who want to give themselves and their loved ones a real shot at a good life aren't that concerned about the laws- which outrages a lot of people, but it's an ends and means thing. If I'm staring poverty in the face, and I have kids who likely stare the same fate down in their lifetime if we don't move, I know I've got a better shot by crossing and taking the chance than I do working for peanuts doing whatever the hell I'm doing. There's not the opportunity there like there still is in the US, and that's not even talking about the ruthless druglord motherfuckers that run parts of mexico and threaten people on top of everything else that's hard about life. And so if I'm that person in the Mexican underclass with a family that I care about, then I could care less what some privileged foreign lawmaker in Washington DC has to say about it, but that goes back to making it VERY difficult to do it legally.

It's so easy to say "why don't they just do it legally??" If you know anything about immigration, lived beside those that dealt with it themselves and with their relatives, then that just makes you laugh at the ignorance.

chefkathleen wrote:

To think that you're the only people that have been or will be racially profiled, you'd be thinking wrong


correct, it's all equally wrong and outrageous, whenever and whoever it happens to.

I don't think that illegal immigration is not a problem, but let's not pretend like it's always been the same circumstances, and only now are people being criminals and breaking the law unlike everyone's honest relatives from the past, wanting to 'make an honest living'. I bet the majority of people crossing illegally just want to do what's best for their families and their future, and a broken system isn't helping.

I sure as hell don't know what the solution isn't, but I'm seeing things that I know AREN'T the solution happening too.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:23:07 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,477
Location: Cakeland, United States
Thank you for sharing that, Mara.

All I can say is.... w o w

Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
LushPrincess
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:25:01 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 7/17/2008
Posts: 1,177
Location: AZ
I really only wanted to share, I realize NOW that it may not have been very smart. We all have different opinions on the subject and most of us will never really agree on a solution, but Chef to say that “To think that you're the only people that have been or will be racially profiled, you'd be thinking wrong.” What exactly does this mean? Does it make it ok then? Should we all just fold our arms and take it, because it has been done many times before? No, I don’t think so…

If my father had decided to stay, or to move to another part of Mexico I know for a fact I wouldn’t be sitting here today giving my opinion on an online forum; and those of you who say you wouldn’t do the same – are lying! Or simply don’t give a f*** about your family and their lives.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:32:44 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,033
Immigration problems occur all over the world but this is another area where things are shades or grey instead of black or white.What is the right answer? No American's except the American indians are indigenous to America. This is the same in places alll over the world.

I'm an immigrant here in the UK though I'm here legally there are plenty of immigrants who aren't. In the past I have been insulted and told to fuck off back home by disgruntled English people. I work hard for my money and pay taxes and have never claimed any kind of benefits. I look around in my town and see English people who have never worked a day in their life claiming benefits and having another child to increase these benefits. A lot of immigrants here work their asses off to send some money home to feed their familes because they live in such poor countries who don't have the benefit of the Euro. So immigration is a subject dear to my heart.

I think also of Zimbabwean friends who had to flee Zimbabwe because of Mugabe. They have emigrated all over the world trying to find a place to live because they were white and that sick excuse for a human being has convinced those ignorant starving people that looting farms and killing white people will solve all their problems. So is it wrong for them to emigrate? Do you see how murky this area is?
LushPrincess
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:55:55 PM

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Joined: 7/17/2008
Posts: 1,177
Location: AZ
I agree with you Lois, if this world were different we would all be in our native countries surrounded by family and friends. [sighs] If only…
Guest
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:06:24 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,033
LadyX wrote:
chefkathleen wrote:
I am sorry for your loss. It must have been a very hard thing for your family but, you also have to understand that a lot of us have the same kinds of stories to tell about our families coming to the States as well. Most of us came in the front door at Ellis Island


Quote:
Back then they loaded up boats and dumped them off at Ellis Island. If they required you to have special skills, or college degrees, or an employer to vouch for you, or already have a brother/sister, or kid, or parent in the US back then, like they do now, then I bet not everyone would've come through the front door. Given the opportunities here, people would find a way, legally or not. It just so happens it was far easier back then to do it legally. It's easier to be honest when others make it easy to be honest.


No, that isn't the only way people got here. I'm sure you've seen pictures on tv of cubans in shit boats trying to get here the 90 miles. Well, some Europeans had some similar experiences only in the bottom of huge tankers for weeks on end with little to no food or water to speak of or toilets. When they got to Ellis Island they still walked up to the policemen told their name and country of origin and did it the right way. Saying that it's easier to be honest when someone makes it easy for you is like saying two wrongs make a right. That isn't so. It's still wrong.


The only other options now are to sit on a waiting list that's decades long, or apply for some kind of temporary visa, which is expensive and really no different than crossing illegally, since visas and passes expire after a short time. People who want to give themselves and their loved ones a real shot at a good life aren't that concerned about the laws- which outrages a lot of people, but it's an ends and means thing. If I'm staring poverty in the face, and I have kids who likely stare the same fate down in their lifetime if we don't move, I know I've got a better shot by crossing and taking the chance than I do working for peanuts doing whatever the hell I'm doing. There's not the opportunity there like there still is in the US, and that's not even talking about the ruthless druglord motherfuckers that run parts of mexico and threaten people on top of everything else that's hard about life. And so if I'm that person in the Mexican underclass with a family that I care about, then I could care less what some privileged foreign lawmaker in Washington DC has to say about it, but that goes back to making it VERY difficult to do it legally.

Quote:
It's so easy to say "why don't they just do it legally??" If you know anything about immigration, lived beside those that dealt with it themselves and with their relatives, then that just makes you laugh at the ignorance.


That still doesn't make doing something illegal the right thing to do just because it's hard. Freedom is hard won. Makes it worth it to the people that earned it. It's worth more to them.



chefkathleen wrote:

To think that you're the only people that have been or will be racially profiled, you'd be thinking wrong


correct, it's all equally wrong and outrageous, whenever and whoever it happens to.

I don't think that illegal immigration is not a problem, but let's not pretend like it's always been the same circumstances, and only now are people being criminals and breaking the law unlike everyone's honest relatives from the past, wanting to 'make an honest living'. I bet the majority of people crossing illegally just want to do what's best for their families and their future, and a broken system isn't helping.

I agree but starting a new life as a criminal make you just as bad as what you were trying to flee from.


I sure as hell don't know what the solution isn't, but I'm seeing things that I know AREN'T the solution happening too.


We all do but, it has to begin somewhere just as it did in the past.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:14:51 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,033
Quote:
but Chef to say that “To think that you're the only people that have been or will be racially profiled, you'd be thinking wrong.” What exactly does this mean? Does it make it ok then? Should we all just fold our arms and take it, because it has been done many times before? No, I don’t think so…


It's mean that Mexican's aren't the only people that have been shit on when they try to come into the US. So have many, many others. Even others that came in legally. You still have to do what's right in the long run.

I prefer if they profile muslims. That may piss you and a lot of other people off but, I don't care. I lost friends at the World Trade Center. I'll walk though a scanner at the airport that shows me buck ass naked warts and all if it will keep one more person from being blown up like 09/11/01.

Some people equate the same with Mexicans. You don't hear about the ones that come into the country and do good things legally. That's a shame. Education always breeds tolerance.
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:22:10 PM

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chefkathleen wrote:
I'm sure you've seen pictures on tv of cubans in shit boats trying to get here the 90 miles. Well, some Europeans had some similar experiences only in the bottom of huge tankers for weeks on end with little to no food or water to speak of or toilets. When they got to Ellis Island they still walked up to the policemen told their name and country of origin and did it the right way.


Right, the point being that the requirement was to have a pulse and the ability to tell somebody your name. Now, it's much different- still illegal, but the argument of "why don't they just do it legally, our ancestors did" is a bullshit comparison.


chefkathleen wrote:
That still doesn't make doing something illigal the right thing to do just because it's hard. Freedom is hard won. Makes it worth it to the people that earned it. It's worth more to them.

chefkathleen wrote:
starting a new life as a criminal make you just as bad as what you were trying to flee from.


I agree that it's not 'right', in the sense that it's illegal, but in certain people's shoes I absolutely would do it- as in Mara's dad in this case. And to say that somebody coming here illegally is just as bad as being dirt poor and under the thumb of drug cartels? I can't agree less on that point, there's no way. People get pissed about it, but to those people who lack a way to find a better life where they are, it's not even a question of which way they would rather go, and I can't blame them if they don't choose not to escape just because it's against the law where there's light at the end of the tunnel.


chefkathleen wrote:
We all do but, it has to begin somewhere just as it did in the past.


True that, but I hate where some people are wanting to start.
Rembacher
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:56:54 PM

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Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,107
chefkathleen wrote:
I prefer if they profile muslims. That may piss you and a lot of other people off but, I don't care. I lost friends at the World Trade Center. I'll walk though a scanner at the airport that shows me buck ass naked warts and all if it will keep one more person from being blown up like 09/11/01.


This attitude makes me very nervous. Maybe I don't understand it because I'm from Canada. I just find it very hard to understand how a country that supposedly prides itself on the freedom of all individuals can be so restrictive, and oppressive to people. It seems that people like you live your life in constant fear. And since you are afraid, you don't think logically, and you lash out against the people you blame.

19 people from an organization that twists the islamic religion attacked the world trade center causing horrific casualties. But to abuse an entire religion over the actions of 19 people is absurd. It's McCarthyism all over again. Only now it's followers of Islam, not the Communists that you are afraid of.
stang
Posted: Thursday, April 29, 2010 6:23:16 PM

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Joined: 4/29/2009
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Very brave of you to share Mara
LadyX
Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 1:30:59 AM

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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,813
chefkathleen wrote:
Quote:
but Chef to say that “To think that you're the only people that have been or will be racially profiled, you'd be thinking wrong.” What exactly does this mean? Does it make it ok then? Should we all just fold our arms and take it, because it has been done many times before? No, I don’t think so…


It's mean that Mexican's aren't the only people that have been shit on when they try to come into the US. So have many, many others. Even others that came in legally. You still have to do what's right in the long run.


Saying, as a response to the outcry, that it's not the first time it's happened is just another way of saying "settle down, it's not that noteworthy", but it sure as hell is. Just as you said that two wrongs don't make a right, in this case a couple of dozen wrongs damn sure don't make a right, especially when this particular wrong includes racist laws are being passed. Saying that profiling is happening and is- as you say- necessary, is an admission that it's racially driven, as in: racist. I'd hate for America to stand for racism. Nazis stood for racism. Nazis also asked to see random people's paperwork in the street.

It's disappointing but no surprise that a bunch of, hmm let's say non-Latinos, in Arizona are just fine with the idea of stopping 'suspected illegals' on the street and asking for their paperwork. What's next, in the name of 'safety' (which means: fear), since that was part of their claim in passing this thing? Also, it's good to see that the police have all the crime taken care of- now they have time to search millions of Latinos for their paperwork.

Oh, that's right I forgot, it's the illegals that are causing the crime! My mistake.

chefkathleen wrote:

I prefer if they profile muslims. That may piss you and a lot of other people off but, I don't care. I lost friends at the World Trade Center. I'll walk though a scanner at the airport that shows me buck ass naked warts and all if it will keep one more person from being blown up like 09/11/01.


wow.

An entire religion that makes up several races? Plus the Latinos? Should we just round up everyone that's not fair-skinned and demand to see their papers while we're at it?

And how many times are we going to use 9/11 as justification for being racist and fear-driven? Like you mentioned Chef, I too have heard Mexicans talked about the way terrorists are, and I always listen, because who doesn't want to hear a racist wacko rant when they come across one? I got to hear a nice, long one from a customer earlier tonight.

Is there a shelf life on dragging out 9/11 for arguments sake, or in 20 years am I going to be told to submit for a bar code on the back of my neck, unless I want to see the "tragic events of 9/11" repeated because we weren't "secure"?

With laws like this going on the books, I'm more and more inclined to say- fuck the law.
Trimble
Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:47:38 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 5/23/2009
Posts: 17
Location: Tucson
Alright so I mostly just lurk and look here, haha. But then I read all the way through this and had to say something. I'm a police officer in Arizona. I'm not Hispanic, but I patrol in an area where almost everybody who lives there is. I'm fairly new to the force, but we have guys that have been there for 20, 30 years in the same neighborhood, and the number one job we have is to build trust and relationships with the people we try to protect. If we can do that, then a big part of the crime battle just got a whole lot easier, because all the residents are eyes and ears for us too.

Then they pass something like this, and all those walls between us and them, that we work so hard to bring down over the years, goes right back up again. They may not hate us, but they can't trust us if our job, by law, is to find which ones are undocumented and uproot them from their lives here. I can tell you first hand that undocumented residents commit crime, but no more than documented ones do.

Most of us on the force also don't care for this law because it adds a huge workload on us, and we've already got plenty on our plate in terms of crime and protection. We pledged to protect everybody within our jurisdiction, it doesn't matter to us what their status is, but now we're forced by law to monitor that too. One of the guys on our force just filed suit against this law, and we're not supposed to comment officially on any litigation, but most of us hope he wins, or that they find this unconstitutional, and this law goes away.

Sorry to go on and on, I said my peace.



Guest
Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:26:47 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,033
Quote:
And how many times are we going to use 9/11 as justification for being racist and fear-driven? Like you mentioned Chef, I too have heard Mexicans talked about the way terrorists are, and I always listen, because who doesn't want to hear a racist wacko rant when they come across one? I got to hear a nice, long one from a customer earlier tonight.

Is there a shelf life on dragging out 9/11 for arguments sake, or in 20 years am I going to be told to submit for a bar code on the back of my neck, unless I want to see the "tragic events of 9/11" repeated because we weren't "secure"?


As many times as it takes for people to pay attention. There are probably a billion muslims in the world. Do they all want to kill us because we don't believe the way they do? I hope not but, in the meantime there is a sect of them that do and I will not let some small faction of people cry about their civil rights being violated and take the chance that 3000 more people will be killed because of it. No it doesn't have a shelf life. It's the biggest act of terrorism ever on our country and we will talk about it until you are old and gray. Just like we do Pearl Harbor. You'll just have to sigh and roll your eyes when people in this country talk about it and your customers as well. Then just tuck that raciists Amercian dollar bill down your pants and go on to the next one.

More than half the people in Arazona want that bill. If it gets shelved until 2012 when it's put on the ballot that will give you and the others two years to convince the 70% that they don't want it and the federal government to wake up and do something to make their citizens happy and safe. Like upholding the laws that are already on the books.
Rembacher
Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:38:32 AM

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Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,107
how many members does Al Qeada have? Maybe a thousand? And you want to restrict the rights of one billion people because of one thousand who base their beliefs on some parts of the Musllim religion? That's like me wanting to restrict the rights of all Christians because a cult in the Detroit area planned to topple the government on instructions from God. It makes no sense.

Then, the Arizona argument. Are there enough legal immigrants who are willing to clean houses, pick fruit, and work in factories for minimum wage that if all illegal immigrants were gone, the economy wouldn't halt? Most legal immigrants are required to have better job prospects than that in order to enter the country.

Where you get the 70% approval for the bill, I don't know. The figure I saw was 64%. Whether most people want it or not, does not matter. It will only take one challenge to knock it down as being unconstitutional and descriminatory. And who knows how many lawsuits the state of Arizona will face once that ruling is made.
Guest
Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 10:00:00 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,033
Quote:
how many members does Al Qeada have? Maybe a thousand? And you want to restrict the rights of one billion people because of one thousand who base their beliefs on some parts of the Musllim religion? That's like me wanting to restrict the rights of all Christians because a cult in the Detroit area planned to topple the government on instructions from God. It makes no sense.


Nope that's not what I said.


Quote:
Where you get the 70% approval for the bill, I don't know. The figure I saw was 64%. Whether most people want it or not, does not matter. It will only take one challenge to knock it down as being unconstitutional and descriminatory. And who knows how many lawsuits the state of Arizona will face once that ruling is made.


On the news. And like I said it may get shelved and put on the ballot in 2012.
LadyX
Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 10:14:42 AM

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Posts: 4,813
chefkathleen wrote:
Quote:
how many members does Al Qeada have? Maybe a thousand? And you want to restrict the rights of one billion people because of one thousand who base their beliefs on some parts of the Musllim religion? That's like me wanting to restrict the rights of all Christians because a cult in the Detroit area planned to topple the government on instructions from God. It makes no sense.


Nope that's not what I said.


If you're not talking about running over the rights of Muslims, then what is the small faction of people you referred to disregarding the civil rights concerns of?

chefkathleen wrote:
I will not let some small faction of people cry about their civil rights being violated and take the chance that 3000 more people will be killed because of it


If it gets on the ballot it probably passes again, but I hope a court decides what to do, not voters being prodded by fear and frustration. If Alabama had voted on civil rights in the 50s and 60s instead of letting the courts handle it, I'm pretty sure it would have taken a lot longer for black people to order lunch from the same counter.
Guest
Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:23:19 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,033
I just saw someone that was in that vid. He said it was supposed to be about genocide and not immigration. Interesting.
Trimble
Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 1:13:20 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 5/23/2009
Posts: 17
Location: Tucson
LadyX wrote:
chefkathleen wrote:
Quote:
how many members does Al Qeada have? Maybe a thousand? And you want to restrict the rights of one billion people because of one thousand who base their beliefs on some parts of the Musllim religion? That's like me wanting to restrict the rights of all Christians because a cult in the Detroit area planned to topple the government on instructions from God. It makes no sense.


Nope that's not what I said.


If you're not talking about running over the rights of Muslims, then what is the small faction of people you referred to disregarding the civil rights concerns of?

chefkathleen wrote:
I will not let some small faction of people cry about their civil rights being violated and take the chance that 3000 more people will be killed because of it



-waits for answer to that one-


And make no mistake, this is the politics of fear. Illegal immigration has been trending down steadily for several years now, and Bush tightened the screws on roundups and raids, which Obama has continued, plus got the wall built, which is nearing completion now.

So this 'crisis' is arguably less of one than it has been any time this decade. What many in Arizona want is the satisfaction of rounding them up and sending them back, then their sense of law and order will be stroked, which has little relationship with the actual 'danger' that you hear mentioned with regard to crime and illegal immigrants.

The truth is, this state has a long history of transplants and snowbirds who have never been comfortable with Mexicans or their culture, which makes them susceptible to fearmongering disguised as other things. This is what's rearing it's head again, in addition to the problems of having residents that are off the grid.

So much for saying my peace before.

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