Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

The Incest Category is going to be removed Options · View
robdabaker
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:11:14 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 4/16/2012
Posts: 22
Location: United States
sprite wrote:


i don't NEED to do anything. you agreed to those TOS when you joined Lush. i have no issues with you PMing your fans about your move. if you walked into a restaurant and started telling people to go eat across the street at a competing restaurant, do you think they'd not saying something? while i appreciate your trying to cooperate, i also have to protect the site. it is, after all, kind of my job. sorry if it comes off as unreasonable, but at this point, i'm feeling pretty damn unreasonable, to be quite honest.


Sprite I'm not trying to start something but I do feel that is being a bit unfair. Yes the TOS state you can't advertise other competing websites. but when the website bans her content she should be allowed to simply state where that content can now be found. She wasn't advertising the site. simply telling her readers where specifically her incest content could now be found. Not every reader is a friend with all the writers so the "You can just PM your fans" statement doesn't always work. I won't say you need to do anything but a fair moderator would understand the circumstance and allow it to stay even for just a few hours if you had to be a by the person.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:13:04 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 819,672
sprite wrote:


that's me being completely exhausted after having spent an entire day answering questions, many of which have been incredibly hostile as well, about the change. i'm not crying or moaning about it, cause it's my job, and i'm okay with doing, but it's not exactly how i planned on spending my day :)


I understand you are exhausted and pissed off by all the rude remarks but please do not take it out on those who don't deserve it!! I don't envy you your job!
Guest
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:16:07 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 819,672
mistermatrix24 wrote:


Sprite I'm not trying to start something but I do feel that is being a bit unfair. Yes the TOS state you can't advertise other competing websites. but when the website bans her content she should be allowed to simply state where that content can now be found. She wasn't advertising the site. simply telling her readers where specifically her incest content could now be found. Not every reader is a friend with all the writers so the "You can just PM your fans" statement doesn't always work. I won't say you need to do anything but a fair moderator would understand the circumstance and allow it to stay even for just a few hours if you had to be a by the person.



Well, we have to abide by the rules to be fair to everyone else. A precedent of rule breaking can't really be set, as it would cause a lot more problems in the long run. For those that aren't friends with their favorite writers, it was mentioned (I believe) that authors can put a link to a personal blog on their profiles. In that case, just visiting their profile here would provide a way to get to their stories. While we do understand that this is a really different and tough circumstance, rules are rules.
sprite
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:18:00 AM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 20,311
Location: My Tower, Spain
mistermatrix24 wrote:


Sprite I'm not trying to start something but I do feel that is being a bit unfair. Yes the TOS state you can't advertise other competing websites. but when the website bans her content she should be allowed to simply state where that content can now be found. She wasn't advertising the site. simply telling her readers where specifically her incest content could now be found. Not every reader is a friend with all the writers so the "You can just PM your fans" statement doesn't always work. I won't say you need to do anything but a fair moderator would understand the circumstance and allow it to stay even for just a few hours if you had to be a by the person.


i never said that she can't contact her readers and tell them where her stories are migrating too, i simply said she agreed, when she signed up here, not to do it in a public forum. if she's like to send a mass email about it to her friends list, she is more than welcome to do so, or telling them she was moving, and inviting them to contact her and ask her where. those would be acceptable. feel free to judge me as will for doing what i feel is best for this site and it's members. not everyone is going to like every decision that is made, and i understand that.



Love not hate.
sprite
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:22:21 AM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 20,311
Location: My Tower, Spain
sexybbw71 wrote:


I understand you are exhausted and pissed off by all the rude remarks but please do not take it out on those who don't deserve it!! I don't envy you your job!


i'm not taking it out on anybody. i am simply applying the TOS across the board equally. i'd do the same if you'd been a mod. one of the very first interactions i had with Nicola was her PMing me because i'd blogged about another website that i'd posted stories on. i totally apologized, removed it, and now, here i am.



Love not hate.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:23:10 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 819,672
sprite wrote:


i never said that she can't contact her readers and tell them where her stories are migrating too, i simply said she agreed, when she signed up here, not to do it in a public forum. if she's like to send a mass email about it to her friends list, she is more than welcome to do so, or telling them she was moving, and inviting them to contact her and ask her where. those would be acceptable. feel free to judge me as will for doing what i feel is best for this site and it's members. not everyone is going to like every decision that is made, and i understand that.


What a shame that there is no flexibility with this site!
sprite
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:28:23 AM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 20,311
Location: My Tower, Spain
sexybbw71 wrote:


What a shame that there is no flexibility with this site!


but we DO have penguins!





Love not hate.
Wilful
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:31:00 AM

Rank: Devil's Advocate
Moderator

Joined: 6/15/2013
Posts: 1,455
Location: Digging a hole on the beach, Australia
principessa wrote:
It is unlike every other category because it is based on child sexual abuse.


It's really not. Just like every American isn't a fucking idiot, every Muslim isn't a terrorist, and every woman who doesn't want to fuck me isn't a lesbian. Perhaps we can pump the breaks on the catastrophic, black and white generalisations, and more importantly, the judgement.

This is an emotionally charged issue to be sure. But the inference that anyone with an interest in the category is some sort of a monster is deeply offensive. And it's this attitude with which I have an issue.

Criminals will read and write incest erotica, but that doesn't mean that everyone who reads and writes incest erotica is a criminal.

Please take a look at my latest story, Banging for Roof.

And for a sexy little rush of Adrenalin, pick yourself up a copy of the Lush Summer anthology.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:31:17 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 819,672
sprite wrote:


but we DO have penguins!




love7 Have I told you that I simply adore you? Yes, I believe I have. You give penguins too!? You're my hero love7
robdabaker
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:34:11 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 4/16/2012
Posts: 22
Location: United States
sprite wrote:


i never said that she can't contact her readers and tell them where her stories are migrating too, i simply said she agreed, when she signed up here, not to do it in a public forum. if she's like to send a mass email about it to her friends list, she is more than welcome to do so, or telling them she was moving, and inviting them to contact her and ask her where. those would be acceptable. feel free to judge me as will for doing what i feel is best for this site and it's members. not everyone is going to like every decision that is made, and i understand that.



Look the Mod is always right. I know this. I stated in my first post I've created social forums myself both still active with large user bases. I get it. Mods keep things clean and moving its what you're here for. and sometimes rules are rules. And though i know there's no point in saying it, the way i think it should be looked at is that the people who are going to leave want to know where there writers are going to go. for the most part however. the majority of the all the users who are all going to stay aren't even on this thread and probably haven't even noticed there's a category missing. To say blocking that link on this specific thread is protecting the site is just words. honestly to tell the writers to announce to ALL their readers that they are migrating to a new website because their content isn't allowed will probably bring more attention to the matter than just letting them post it here where just over 7,000 people of the total 239,251 person membership would be able to view it most of whom seem to be in favor of the change. But thats just my non Mod opinion on the issue so it doesnt matter
BadGirl76
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:35:51 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 5/18/2012
Posts: 263
Location: Big Sky Country, United States
This is directed at everyone and no one person in particular:

I asked one question earlier in the day and received my response quickly so I have been lurking in this thread off and on since. I find some of the points valid, some funny and some rude. I won't comment on the decision to eliminate one category because it is something I cannot change. I will comment on what I have read from all that posted.

I feel the need to apologize to the mods for all the abuse they have been through today. They have been kind when needed, given advice when asked, and have put their boots or high heels up you-know-whats when needed. I wish you all the best of days after you have finished fighting this battle.

Please understand the mods are only doing their job. Put yourself in their shoes before you comment.

...I thought that maybe a new life, a different life, wouldn’t be so bad. But where the hell did I put the receipt, and could you return something that was over twenty years old? Where do you go to get a new life when your old one has you so puzzled you don’t know how to fix it? Wish I knew.
-Anita Blake (Laurell K. Hamilton)

Newest stories: The Trials of First Love
sprite
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:45:20 AM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 20,311
Location: My Tower, Spain
mistermatrix24 wrote:



Look the Mod is always right. I know this. I stated in my first post I've created social forums myself both still active with large user bases. I get it. Mods keep things clean and moving its what you're here for. and sometimes rules are rules. And though i know there's no point in saying it, the way i think it should be looked at is that the people who are going to leave want to know where there writers are going to go. for the most part however. the majority of the all the users who are all going to stay aren't even on this thread and probably haven't even noticed there's a category missing. To say blocking that link on this specific thread is protecting the site is just words. honestly to tell the writers to announce to ALL their readers that they are migrating to a new website because their content isn't allowed will probably bring more attention to the matter than just letting them post it here where just over 7,000 people of the total 239,251 person membership would be able to view it most of whom seem to be in favor of the change. But thats just my non Mod opinion on the issue so it doesnt matter



i offered two different ways to contact readers. i am sure that someone interested in getting creative could figure out more. and yes, it just just words, just like the stories here that everyone is getting upset about are just words. and funny enough, Nic's always run this site so that EVERYone's opinion matters - that's why we have an entire thread devoted to suggestions, many of which are implemented. you know, it would be really easy for me to simply lock or delete this thread. instead i am trying to answer questions as best i can, because i really do understand peoples reactions. it did come out of nowhere for all of you. i get that. as a writer, i get it.

oh, and if i followed someone here and felt strongly enough about their stories that i wanted to follow them, it would be easy for me to find out where they'd gone if they ever left the site.



Love not hate.
Milik_the_Red
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:45:56 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 5,827
Location: The Citadel of my mind , United States
Wilful wrote:


It's really not. Just like every American isn't a fucking idiot, every Muslim isn't a terrorist, and every woman who doesn't want to fuck me isn't a lesbian. Perhaps we can pump the breaks on the catastrophic, black and white generalisations, and more importantly, the judgement.

This is an emotionally charged issue to be sure. But the inference that anyone with an interest in the category is some sort of a monster is deeply offensive. And it's this attitude with which I have an issue.

Criminals will read and write incest erotica, but that doesn't mean that everyone who reads and writes incest erotica is a criminal.


No it doesn't. I've written it and I've read it. What I don't get is the frothing obsession. Even I find that creepy, especially considering what they are frothing over. A reaction like this over any sexual practice would raise eyebrows. To see it over something so socially taboo naturally makes people wonder where the hell it's coming from.

Surely silence can sometimes be the most eloquent of replies
- Unknown
Courtneyxoxo
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:46:35 AM

Rank: Rookie Scribe

Joined: 11/10/2012
Posts: 8
Location: United Kingdom
I sort of get why they've decided to make this change, because they want to appear more mature in the hopes that some publishers will pay attention. But it is kind if annoying since incest stories are what originally bought me to the site and I still have alot of fun reading them.
Wilful
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:52:49 AM

Rank: Devil's Advocate
Moderator

Joined: 6/15/2013
Posts: 1,455
Location: Digging a hole on the beach, Australia
Willyc2licu wrote:
One definition of incest would be based on who one is allowed to marry. In the Book of Common Prayer the list of consanguinity (ie. those who are forbidden to marry) is quite clear, and that is what UK law is based on:

A Man may not marry his:
mother; daughter; adopted daughter; father's mother; mother's mother; son's daughter; daughter's daughter; sister; wife's mother; wife's daughter; father's wife; son's wife; father's father's wife; mother's father's wife; wife's father's mother; wife's mother's mother; wife's daughter's daughter; wife's son's daughter; son's son's wife; daughter's son's wife; father's sister; mother's sister; brother's daughter; sister's daughter

A Woman may marry her:
father; son; adopted son; father's father; mother's father; son's son; daughter's son; brother; husband's father; husband's son; mother's husband; daughter's husband; father's mother's husband; mother's mother's husband; husband's father's father; husband's mother's father; husband's son's son; husband'; daughter's son; son's daughter's husband; daughter's daughter's husband; father's brother; mother's brother; brother's son; sister's son


Well, that's the writers of The Bold and the Beautiful fucked then. dontknow

Please take a look at my latest story, Banging for Roof.

And for a sexy little rush of Adrenalin, pick yourself up a copy of the Lush Summer anthology.
DanielleX
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:53:46 AM

Rank: Blonde Bombshell
Moderator

Joined: 11/6/2011
Posts: 3,701
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
sprite wrote:


but we DO have penguins!




PENGUINS!!!

love7 love7
Guest
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:53:58 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 819,672
sprite wrote:


but we DO have penguins!




Sprite, let me say that although we are "friends" here I don't really know you. You have approved a few of my stories, and yes I have lost a couple of stories because of this decision. I do however respect the decision and have moved on.

I just wanted to compliment you on how patient you have been in dealing with the questions and criticisms and how adept you are at keeping your cool. But if that wasn't enough, anyone that can trot out the penguins in this situation is a hero of mine. Keep up the good work.

Jack
robdabaker
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:54:24 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 4/16/2012
Posts: 22
Location: United States
sprite wrote:



i offered two different ways to contact readers. i am sure that someone interested in getting creative could figure out more. and yes, it just just words, just like the stories here that everyone is getting upset about are just words. and funny enough, Nic's always run this site so that EVERYone's opinion matters - that's why we have an entire thread devoted to suggestions, many of which are implemented. you know, it would be really easy for me to simply lock or delete this thread. instead i am trying to answer questions as best i can, because i really do understand peoples reactions. it did come out of nowhere for all of you. i get that. as a writer, i get it.

oh, and if i followed someone here and felt strongly enough about their stories that i wanted to follow them, it would be easy for me to find out where they'd gone if they ever left the site.



Yeah but this issue is your two options require that I or the other readers have friended every single writer that we liked. which isn't the case. but i knew the titles of stories. or favorites those stories i liked or added them to my queue. my point is i Favorited and queued a lot of stories i liked but not necessarily the author because i would use the saved stories to get back to the writers. but now those are dead. they show up in my queue but they're dead links. so now i've got to try and remember the user name of ever writer i've liked on here but didn't friend and find out if they're moving their content. don't you see how that could be seen as not fair to the many readers who are definitely in the same boat.
robdabaker
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:56:01 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 4/16/2012
Posts: 22
Location: United States
Milik_Redman wrote:


No it doesn't. I've written it and I've read it. What I don't get is the frothing obsession. Even I find that creepy, especially considering what they are frothing over. A reaction like this over any sexual practice would raise eyebrows. To see it over something so socially taboo naturally makes people wonder where the hell it's coming from.


I wondered where you went with your insults. You're a wonderful Mod. really.
Milik_the_Red
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:56:05 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 5,827
Location: The Citadel of my mind , United States
BadGirl76 wrote:
This is directed at everyone and no one person in particular:

I asked one question earlier in the day and received my response quickly so I have been lurking in this thread off and on since. I find some of the points valid, some funny and some rude. I won't comment on the decision to eliminate one category because it is something I cannot change. I will comment on what I have read from all that posted.

I feel the need to apologize to the mods for all the abuse they have been through today. They have been kind when needed, given advice when asked, and have put their boots or high heels up you-know-whats when needed. I wish you all the best of days after you have finished fighting this battle.

Please understand the mods are only doing their job. Put yourself in their shoes before you comment.


I just want to thank you for a very reasoned post.

Surely silence can sometimes be the most eloquent of replies
- Unknown
Milik_the_Red
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 12:56:45 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 5,827
Location: The Citadel of my mind , United States
mistermatrix24 wrote:


I wondered where you went with your insults. Your a wonderful Mod. really.


I'll take your dislike as a compliment. Thank you.


Surely silence can sometimes be the most eloquent of replies
- Unknown
Guest
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:00:28 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 819,672
mistermatrix24 wrote:



Yeah but this issue is your two options require that I or the other readers have friended every single writer that we liked. which isn't the case. but i knew the titles of stories. or favorites those stories i liked or added them to my queue. my point is i Favorited and queued a lot of stories i liked but not necessarily the author because i would use the saved stories to get back to the writers. but now those are dead. they show up in my queue but they're dead links. so now i've got to try and remember the user name of ever writer i've liked on here but didn't friend and find out if they're moving their content. don't you see how that could be seen as not fair to the many readers who are definitely in the same boat.



If you're not friends with someone, you can still see their bio and website link. Therefore, you can just click on that to access their personal blog with their stories. Also, if you favorited a story, the author of that story should show up next to it.
robdabaker
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:04:35 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 4/16/2012
Posts: 22
Location: United States
simply_sweet wrote:



If you're not friends with someone, you can still see their bio and website link. Therefore, you can just click on that to access their personal blog with their stories. Also, if you favorited a story, the author of that story should show up next to it.



Your absolutely right with the first part. except i stated that requires remembering their names but yes favorited stories do have the authors names. thats helpful and not rude at all! thank you. but for me i mostly queued stories which does not so im still in quandary.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:07:05 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 819,672
mistermatrix24 wrote:



Your absolutely right with the first part. except i stated that requires remembering their names but yes favorited stories do have the authors names. thats helpful and not rude at all! thank you. but for me i mostly queued stories which does not so im still in quandary.



Hmm, that's true. Let me see what a solution to that particular problem might be, and I'll get back to you.
Wilful
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:12:28 AM

Rank: Devil's Advocate
Moderator

Joined: 6/15/2013
Posts: 1,455
Location: Digging a hole on the beach, Australia
Milik_Redman wrote:


No it doesn't. I've written it and I've read it. What I don't get is the frothing obsession. Even I find that creepy, especially considering what they are frothing over. A reaction like this over any sexual practice would raise eyebrows. To see it over something so socially taboo naturally makes people wonder where the hell it's coming from.


Yeah, I understand the elevation of the eyebrows.

But consider this, you had a safe environment where you could explore your deepest, darkest fantasies, and then it was suddenly taken away from you with little to no warning. People have arced up about it. It's not surprising, Nicola and the mods even expected it.

But then, to add insult to injury, during the initial expression of shock, and dare I say grief, a flood of commentary in support of the decision has not only minimised people's concern and argued with their opinions, but all but accused them of being freaks.

Cue the froth.

Please take a look at my latest story, Banging for Roof.

And for a sexy little rush of Adrenalin, pick yourself up a copy of the Lush Summer anthology.
Milik_the_Red
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 1:40:05 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 5,827
Location: The Citadel of my mind , United States
Wilful wrote:


Yeah, I understand the elevation of the eyebrows.

But consider this, you had a safe environment where you could explore your deepest, darkest fantasies, and then it was suddenly taken away from you with little to no warning. People have arced up about it. It's not surprising, Nicola and the mods even expected it.

But then, to add insult to injury, during the initial expression of shock, and dare I say grief, a flood of commentary in support of the decision has not only minimised people's concern and argued with their opinions, but all but accused them of being freaks.

Cue the froth.


Well, I lost 172 votes and about 50 comments and 67k views. I too feel attacked by the rage this is caused but I'm not bombing the thread and attacking at will. I understand the frustration but it's the ones who've completely gone bonkers that make me say 'what the fuck?'

It's really basic psychology. A level of anger should be commensurate with the wrong. Having to look at another site to find a particular type of story shouldn't cause a full red faced rage. That it does makes me wonder if some of those pointed statements you refer to might not be completely inaccurate.

Surely silence can sometimes be the most eloquent of replies
- Unknown
Guest
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 2:07:55 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 819,672
So many of you are using the word "censorship". The fact remains that incest is ILLEGAL. no other story category is so. You can call it "incest fantasy" all you like, it still doesn't change what the subject is. No other category has the word "fantasy" after it, why is that? At a guess I'm sure no other categories have been dispensed with, because they are not illegal acts. I think what lush has done is something they should be proud of.
Master_Jonathan
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 2:09:00 AM

Rank: Gentleman Master

Joined: 3/6/2013
Posts: 2,838
Location: God's Deep Freezer, United States
BadGirl76 wrote:
This is directed at everyone and no one person in particular:

I asked one question earlier in the day and received my response quickly so I have been lurking in this thread off and on since. I find some of the points valid, some funny and some rude. I won't comment on the decision to eliminate one category because it is something I cannot change. I will comment on what I have read from all that posted.

I feel the need to apologize to the mods for all the abuse they have been through today. They have been kind when needed, given advice when asked, and have put their boots or high heels up you-know-whats when needed. I wish you all the best of days after you have finished fighting this battle.

Please understand the mods are only doing their job. Put yourself in their shoes before you comment.


I second this! This has been a hard decision to make I am sure and even harder with some of the comments and opinions voiced today. I just want the Mods to know that most of us here appreciate the VOLUNTEER work the Mods do here to keep Lush a fun and happy (usually) place. 3601

Banner below is a clickable link!

AbigailThornton
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 2:09:49 AM

Rank: Story Verifier
Moderator

Joined: 7/8/2012
Posts: 771
Location: Masturbation Jail, United Kingdom
sprite wrote:


i do understand that this is an out of the ordinary change. that doesn't change the rules. sorry if i seem draconian here, but that's how it is. and we didn't stop selling hamburgers. we simply stopped selling big macs. you can still get hamburgers, cheeseburgers, quarterpounders, etc, here.


OK now I've got the munchies... *stomach grumbles*

Guest
Posted: Sunday, April 20, 2014 2:10:04 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 819,672
Regardless of the subject matter once the censorship begins, it's like power ceded to the government or taxes once imposed, there is NEVER a lessening. "The problem with a fella in the habit of goring bulls, the next one he gores might be yours!" (A quote of a Chill Wills line from the movie "The Alamo".)
Funny, but when I first arrived here at Lush I had the idea that I'd landed among open minded individuals with sufficient maturity to be willing to simply ignore that in which they lacked an interest. LOL It didn't take me long to find out that the majority of THOSE people had already left the site in disgust! I personally don't care all I'm saying is that you need to be careful about throwing around labels like: weird, nasty or perverse all too much of what ELSE is written about on this site also falls under those headings in the eyes of much of the world. Obstensibly the REASON for sites such as this one is to give people whose sexual preferences we may or may NOT share, the SAME opportunity to express THEIR "deviant" preference as we want where our own is concerned. The decision having been made this may all be moot, still it deserves to be stated as well as the fact that the slippery slope, also has an impact on the site's worth. It's all about "hits" when those drop...
Users browsing this topic
Guest 


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.1.6 (NET v4.0) - 11/14/2007
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.