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Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 others. Is it rape culture, guns or something else? Options · View
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:16:15 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
MrNudiePants wrote:


I'm a firm believer in training but my main argument against requiring it would be that the cost would put self defense out of the reach of poor people. Unless we teach it in public schools like we do with drivers' ed. I'd be all for that.

I see too many hurdles to be overcome regarding registration for it to work. They tried registration in Canada with (I think) around a 15% success rate. They just recent passed a registration bill in Massachusetts, and the results seem to be similar to those experienced in Canada. A recent newspaper article claimed something on the order of 80% of all police officers in the state are now felons because even they refuse to register their firearms. How would you enforce it? Repeal the 4th Amendment and allow the police to go house-to-house searching for guns? Do you imprison the millions of conscientious objectors? 85% of 350 million... that's a lot of cells to be built.


I find 'fear that people will choose to be lawless' a poor reason to not pass a law. If people choose to be wackos who interpret law different from the way our elected legislators do, then that's on them. Civilized society will be over here, they'll be over there I suppose. You enforce it by offering a grace period to either register or turn in guns. Beyond the grace period, if you get caught with an unlicensed gun, you go to the slam, and lose the ability to ever own one legally. You can't go door to door gestapo-style, but you also don't just declare a state of "welp" and take no action at all.

If people can afford to drive a car they can afford to take the necessary registration steps to train and register as a gun operator and owner. I agree that poverty is a problem, but any way you slice it, the guns need to be accounted for.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:21:39 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
Magical_felix wrote:


Are you saying those people wouldn't have been able to defend themselves if they had to register their guns? If they had to take some tests before owning one it would have made their self defense non-existent? Of those self defense cases how many of them used three or more guns and hundreds/thousands of rounds of ammo to do so? That is a serious question, not that I expect you to have an answer. Go ahead and prove me right again nudiepants.


How many people buy a firearm, and train with it regularly? You don't, but many do. How many people have a smaller gun for concealed carry and a larger one for home defense? You don't, but many do. How many houses have both spouses that own guns, and adult children that own guns? Evidently yours doesn't, but many do. How many spurious accusations have you made (and will continue to make) in your life? I don't even think you could read a number that long with the Hubble telescope.
MostPreciousLittle
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:22:13 AM

Rank: MostPreciousLittle

Joined: 11/14/2013
Posts: 8,841
Location: An angel dropped down from heaven
LittleLuce wrote:



I'm so sorry this happened to you, I can only say that you have my sympathy - all of it.

I understand what DPW is saying though as over the years women of all ages have been threatened with further violence should they report the rape. Also some women fear that they will not be believed if they report it and many others just cannot bear to re-live the terror of the experience when talking about it may well give them some kind of mental relief.
I believe that sex offenders will always repeat their offence if not brought to justice.

No offence meant to you with this post daddysweetheart.


Thanks hon.. I couldn't wrap my head around it at the time..too horrible/horrendous. I had to shove it away. I don't think that person lives there anymore. I haven't been there in so long. I moved away a long time ago..

Thank you hon..hugss..


MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:27:09 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:


I find 'fear that people will choose to be lawless' a poor reason to not pass a law. If people choose to be wackos who interpret law different from the way our elected legislators do, then that's on them. Civilized society will be over here, they'll be over there I suppose. You enforce it by offering a grace period to either register or turn in guns. Beyond the grace period, if you get caught with an unlicensed gun, you go to the slam, and lose the ability to ever own one legally. You can't go door to door gestapo-style, but you also don't just declare a state of "welp" and take no action at all.

If people can afford to drive a car they can afford to take the necessary registration steps to train and register as a gun operator and owner. I agree that poverty is a problem, but any way you slice it, the guns need to be accounted for.


Millions of people can't even afford to register a car, much less a gun.

We're talking about real world problems that will need real works solutions. Passing a law, knowing ahead of time that is an unworkable law, is insane. It's living in a fantasy world. If we're going to live in a fantasy world, just have Magic Jack make a magic wand out of a unicorn horn, and wish all the nasty evil guns away. evil4
Guest
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:30:02 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,296
First of all, the fallen and the injured require the sympathy of everyone.

This thread makes very tedious if sadly predictable reading.
There is only one post above that hits the nail on the head. (Invecticus)

This is not PRIMARILY about guns.
This is not PRIMARILY about sexist or rapist attitudes
This is not about mental illness as I understand it.

This is PRIMARILY about a what in good old plain English is called a psychopath. ( I would also add the notion of an inadequate psychopath).
By that I mean a narcissistic individual, whose brain chemistry and neuronal patterns are different from most people's, who shows no remorse, and fails to profit from experience, tells lies with facility and thinks they are the centre of the universe. Everything else is their property to be used or abused at will. Typically they fail to sustain relationships, although they may subjugate another person. The use of weapons, the denigration of the sex of preference etc, are not nurtured attitudes; they are part of the pattern, caused by it, not learned or assimilated into it. They are potentially dangerous individuals who really exist.
Can we reliably identify these people? Possibly.
Reliably without error? No
Does the UK legislation help? Probably not because, if anything, our innate sense of individual freedom will cause us to give the benefit of the doubt. We have a poor record off releasing killers back into society who then re-offend. I have had direct experience of detaining people against their will using both the Mental Health Act and the National Assistance Act. I can tell you it is never done lightly. It is a very hard thing to do.
Are psychopaths capable of rehabilitation? I personally do not think so. Some people however do. We let some of them out. Not the late Myra Hindley though, despite the delusions of the late Lord Longford.
Can we stop this happening again? No I don't think so because psychopaths are born that way, they may be contextualised by society, but they are not made by it.
For what it worth my experience tells me these people are not mad, they are genuinely, irretrievably, bad.
Sadly this case will change little, although it clearly has and will continue to generate heat but not light.
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:30:02 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
MrNudiePants wrote:


Millions of people can't even afford to register a car, much less a gun.

We're talking about real world problems that will need real works solutions. Passing a law, knowing ahead of time that is an unworkable law, is insane. It's living in a fantasy world. If we're going to live in a fantasy world, just have Magic Jack make a magic wand out of a unicorn horn, and wish all the nasty evil guns away. evil4


I don't think a registration requirement is an unworkable law. People who choose to be lawless will be felons if and when they're caught. You won't have 100% compliance but when do we have that anywhere? People drive around without insurance or registration, people violate parole, people refuse to pay child support: that doesn't make the existence and attempted enforcement of those requirements insane.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:31:28 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,296
Dani wrote:


I've already addressed this. Regulate guns like we regulate driving. Make sure one is fit to carry a gun before being allowed to own/operate one. Make only certain types of guns available. Register every gun. Have a record of every new owner of said guns. Require insurance. Report guns as lost or stolen. Suspend or revoke gun licenses as necessary. Government mandated safety features. Extra licenses or different license classes on high capacity guns. Inspections. Etc.


Now this is what I was looking for. Ideas on guns that are truly workable. Whatever happened to consequence? How some people think they have an inalienable right to have guns is ludicrous. When it came to Marijuana people were, and still are at smaller rate, thrown in jail for the violation. If they got caught with it again, they were thrown in jail again. Why can't that work with guns? Yes, those that have had the right taken away will still violate the order handed down to them. If they do, and they get caught, jail again. And again. And again until they reach three strikes.

Insurance required for every gun and gun owners....just like cars...brilliant! Why not? This may not minimize crime but it makes complete sense.

MrNudiePants wrote:


Millions of people can't even afford to register a car, much less a gun.

We're talking about real world problems that will need real works solutions. Passing a law, knowing ahead of time that is an unworkable law, is insane. It's living in a fantasy world. If we're going to live in a fantasy world, just have Magic Jack make a magic wand out of a unicorn horn, and wish all the nasty evil guns away. evil4


Of course the gun enthusiasts will disagree...but who gives a crap? If/when the idea gets momentum and becomes law,their opinions, like those of the guy flippin off the enormous finger (I think that avi says it all about him) will be of little or no value anyways.

Thanx Dani. Yours, and Dancing Doll's sentiments that follow, both get post of the day in my book.
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:32:15 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,665
Location: California
Dancing_Doll wrote:
What I find most fucked up in this thread is that there are so many sentiments about what women are doing wrong and what they need to change.

We need to:

- not drink or do drugs or 'glorify' these things because it sends the wrong message to guys
- we need to not condone pro-athletes like Tiger Woods cheating on his wife
- we're making the situation worse by not reporting all rapes, despite the aftermath, being a social outcast, and lack of criminal outcome
- we are apparently making false rape accusations nearly 50% of the time according to tinfoil-FBI websites
- we need to buy more guns and ammo because that's supposedly the answer - regardless of the fact that a drive-by shooting while you're standing outside a sorority house is still going to kill you, regardless of whether you're packing

What about what guys can do to better the cause?

* What about not making 'rape' jokes - how many times in the past year have I heard jokes made about the 'rape van' and that girl's dress looks pretty 'rapey' and then having the guy say relax, he was just 'joking around'.

* What about not standing by and condoning locker-room talk that degrades women beyond the pale and promotes a culture of misogyny?

* What about not supporting your buddy when he intimidates women at the bar or grabs/gropes them and not blame it on him just being drunk - or looking the other way when your friend mistreats his girlfriend or wife?

* What about not blaming women when they don't want to date you or have sex with you despite you being a 'really nice guy' and sticking it out in the friend zone? And not taking the approach that if you're persistent enough, eventually she'll come around.

* What about not calling a woman a 'stuck up bitch' when she tells you she's not interested or doesn't respond to your leers and cat-calls on the street?

* Or not judging a woman based on what she's wearing, whether she has breast implants or whether she works in a strip club to make money and not assuming these things means she's open to being a sex-object 24/7 or that you can treat her differently than you would treat the girl next door.

* Or not silently blaming the female when you hear stories of women who stayed with abusive men or girls that went to a party and got wasted and ended up being half-consciously pushed into sex with one or more guys. And if you are actually there - step in and do something instead of being a bystander because it doesn't involve you! And don't whip out your camera to take pics or laugh about the 'slutty drunk girl' the next day with your friends or on Twitter and then have your friends back and defend them and put the blame on the girl for 'making trouble' when she tells people or wants to report it. She was there - drunk or willingly taking drugs - it's her fault if she inadvertently ended up turning all those guys on, right?

* Or how about not ignoring the girl that's being harassed on the subway or the street and clearly needs help because you don't want to get involved and it's not your problem.

* Or maybe not shrugging it off when your friend tells you he dropped some GHB in the drink of the girl he's been dating lately to 'loosen her up'.

* What about not doing a damn thing when you know your friend date-raped a girl and insisting on having his back or ignoring the facts that you are 100% aware of as fact.

* What about not being content to take the stance of "well, rape and assault happen - go get a gun and learn how to use it."

I have seen stuff like this happen around me - every single example I've given comes from personal experience, either involving myself or close friends of mine - and there were plenty of 'good guys' who wouldn't dream of committing any kind of violence against women themselves who just let it happen, made excuses, or listened to the stories from their buddies and laughed or said nothing, or looked the other way because as long as they weren't 'the bad guy' it doesn't matter. And this bystander-effect involved men of all ages, economic backgrounds and status - all the way up to high level CEOs of massive international corporations. And they all did nothing or they covered for their 'buddies' and blamed the girl.

I think there is plenty that 'good guys' can do to help the cause... and it doesn't involve buying more guns.


Just quoting this so it doesn't get lost so fast in this thread because some people think this thread is only about fear that their guns will be taken.

These are the core problems with rape culture. The bystander effect, men getting dumber in groups to impress each other, slut shaming, sexual intimidation and making light of women's fears. This is the first time in the thread that specific things have been mentioned that men can do to curve this problem in our society. Eventually after a few generations if older wiser men teach their sons, younger friends and peers some good values and lead by example these practices can be minimized to the point of extinction.

dpw
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:34:18 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/15/2013
Posts: 4,464
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
daddysweetheart wrote:


So the reason why I was raped at knifepoint by two men was because of other women not reporting it.

Thanks for clarifying that. I feel so much better.



Have you made it your life mission to misread, misinterpret, misquote and misunderstand every post that I make?
I said non reporting exacerbates, not shifts the blame! Most criminals play a numbers game, if the crime isn't even reported there is no chance that they will be caught and a very good chance that they will repeat the crime.
I'll ask you this.
How would you feel if, after your attack, two women came forward and said that it had happened to them. They knew who did it, but didn't report it. They didn't commit the crime but by not reporting it, facilitated the likelihood of further attacks.
Now do you understand?
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:40:13 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,665
Location: California
MrNudiePants wrote:


Millions of people can't even afford to register a car, much less a gun.

We're talking about real world problems that will need real works solutions. Passing a law, knowing ahead of time that is an unworkable law, is insane. It's living in a fantasy world. If we're going to live in a fantasy world, just have Magic Jack make a magic wand out of a unicorn horn, and wish all the nasty evil guns away. evil4


I never said take all the guns away. Making a responsible system for gun ownership doesn't mean take all the guns away. It's not an all or nothing issue like you are trying to make it.

Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

MrNudiePants wrote:


How many people buy a firearm, and train with it regularly? You don't, but many do. How many people have a smaller gun for concealed carry and a larger one for home defense? You don't, but many do. How many houses have both spouses that own guns, and adult children that own guns? Evidently yours doesn't, but many do. How many spurious accusations have you made (and will continue to make) in your life? I don't even think you could read a number that long with the Hubble telescope.


You avoided a simple question once again to attack me on things you couldn't possible know.

We get it, you jerk off with guns and you believe that more guns equal less killings.

Do you have anything else to say because this thread isn't just about your slippery slope paranoia that the government and american citizens are out to take your guns away.

Dani
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:48:50 AM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch
Moderator

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 7,187
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
dpw wrote:
I said non reporting exacerbates, not shifts the blame! Most criminals play a numbers game, if the crime isn't even reported there is no chance that they will be caught and a very good chance that they will repeat the crime.
I'll ask you this.
How would you feel if, after your attack, two women came forward and said that it had happened to them. They knew who did it, but didn't report it. They didn't commit the crime but by not reporting it, facilitated the likelihood of further attacks.
Now do you understand?


This is all so laughably ideal.

You think knowing who did it is enough? A great bit of women who are raped or assaulted know their attacker. It makes no difference. It's about proving it. And there are great lengths one has to go through to prove someone did the crime. It's all an embarrassing and invasive process, and it's much like being raped all over again.

It may not shift the blame, but it definitely shifts the responsibility (which isn't much different).

Ashleigh made some excellent points regarding men's responsibility in all of this. Perhaps you should give those a look before further posting on the subject.



MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:49:37 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:


I don't think a registration requirement is an unworkable law. People who choose to be lawless will be felons if and when they're caught. You won't have 100% compliance but when do we have that anywhere? People drive around without insurance or registration, people violate parole, people refuse to pay child support: that doesn't make the existence and attempted enforcement of those requirements insane.


If a nice, polite, law-abiding country like Canada only achieved 15% compliance, I'd call it an unworkable law.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:56:00 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
elicia wrote:


Of course the gun enthusiasts will disagree...but who gives a crap? If/when the idea gets momentum and becomes law,their opinions, like those of the guy flippin off the enormous finger (I think that avi says it all about him) will be of little or no value anyways.


And posts like this indicate why people on my side of the fence are so wary of people on the other side. Cause folks like this don't care about my rights, and they don't care what my opinion is. They want to pass any law their spur of the moment emoting tells them is "the right thing to do". No logic, no thought, no learning from history.
Weavindreams
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:04:03 PM

Rank: Ricepaddy Daddy

Joined: 10/28/2013
Posts: 11,242
Location: On the bluffs above the Mississippi River., United
Magical_felix wrote:


I believe he is assuming that because you're a women. Comments like that and earlier when he said women condoning the use of alcohol sends males the wrong idea make it evident that he is a misogynist and a slut-shamer.


Here's a thought, how about I don't CARE what gender you happen to be wrong is wrong? Now, if you're about through commenting on ME in an effort to once again use ASSUMPTIONS and lifting my comments piece meal in order to reassemble them to suit yourself in an effort to discredit my commentary, can we maybe get back to the OP?

And, BTW; having spent over thirty years of my life, as either a combat Marine, Brig Guard, Security Officer at a State run veteran's home and/or bouncer in a night club; the great vast majority of my working life has been spent PROTECTING the weak and defenseless from this world's predators. But, don't let THAT little "irrelevancy" stand in the way of your apparent need to cast aspersions upon me.


Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:05:02 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,665
Location: California
MrNudiePants wrote:


If a nice, polite, law-abiding country like Canada only achieved 15% compliance, I'd call it an unworkable law.


How was a less polite society like Australia able to account for every gun in their citizens hands? By your rationale then we should do it since that country was able too.

Australian stats wrote:
Firearm controls have been in place following the 1996 Port Arthur massacre. Gun ownership in Australia is not a wide social issue, and major political parties are generally supportive of pro-control legislation

The rate of homicides involving firearms per 100,000 population in 2009 was 0.1. The rate of unintentional deaths involving firearms in 2001 was 0.09. The overall homicide rate of Australia was 1.2 deaths per 100,000 for 2007-2008.

In 1996 Australia restricted semi-automatic weapons and "The American Journal of Law and Economics reported in 2010 that firearm homicides in Australia dropped 59 percent between 1995 and 2006. In the 18 years before the 1996 laws, there were 13 gun massacres resulting in 102 deaths, according to Harvard researchers, with none in that category since.




dpw
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:09:08 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/15/2013
Posts: 4,464
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
LadyX wrote:


Not to put too fine a point on it, but whatever one believes about it, only one of those is in the legally binding US Constitution. The other is just a sentence lifted from the Declaration of Independence.

Good job I'm not American, lol. I've just read it, and the first 12 amendments, complete with all the non pc references to Indians. Heavy reading setting up a country.
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:09:57 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,665
Location: California
Weavindreams wrote:


Here's a thought, how about I don't CARE what gender you happen to be wrong is wrong? Now, if you're about through commenting on ME in an effort to once again use ASSUMPTIONS in an effort to discredit my commentary, can we maybe get back to the OP?


It's not an assumption. It is what you said and it has everything to do with the topic.

MostPreciousLittle
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:12:18 PM

Rank: MostPreciousLittle

Joined: 11/14/2013
Posts: 8,841
Location: An angel dropped down from heaven
dpw wrote:

Have you made it your life mission to misread, misinterpret, misquote and misunderstand every post that I make?
I said non reporting exacerbates, not shifts the blame! Most criminals play a numbers game, if the crime isn't even reported there is no chance that they will be caught and a very good chance that they will repeat the crime.
I'll ask you this.
How would you feel if, after your attack, two women came forward and said that it had happened to them. They knew who did it, but didn't report it. They didn't commit the crime but by not reporting it, facilitated the likelihood of further attacks.
Now do you understand?


Of course I understand.

And maybe they felt like me.....

I can't speak for them..


MostPreciousLittle
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:13:37 PM

Rank: MostPreciousLittle

Joined: 11/14/2013
Posts: 8,841
Location: An angel dropped down from heaven
Dani wrote:


This is all so laughably ideal.

You think knowing who did it is enough? A great bit of women who are raped or assaulted know their attacker. It makes no difference. It's about proving it. And there are great lengths one has to go through to prove someone did the crime. It's all an embarrassing and invasive process, and it's much like being raped all over again.

It may not shift the blame, but it definitely shifts the responsibility (which isn't much different).

Ashleigh made some excellent points regarding men's responsibility in all of this. Perhaps you should give those a look before further posting on the subject.


Thank you Dani.


MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:17:20 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
Magical_felix wrote:

More blah blah blah.


Demographically, who is the USA closer to? Australia or Canada? Who do we share similar histories with? Who do we more closely share similar economic issues with?
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:25:52 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,665
Location: California
MrNudiePants wrote:


Demographically, who is the USA closer to? Australia or Canada? Who do we share similar histories with? Who do we more closely share similar economic issues with?


History and economic issues don't have anything to do with the statistics of Australia regarding their actions they took after mass murders were reaching epidemic levels.

You are insisting on picking and choosing data (which you have no sources for by the way. I can provide real sources for all of mine).

You are also acting childish now. It's embarrassing.

MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:31:11 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
Magical_felix wrote:


History and economic issues don't have anything to do with the statistics of Australia regarding their actions they took after mass murders were reaching epidemic levels.

You are insisting on picking and choosing data (which you have no sources for by the way. I can provide real sources for all of mine).

You are also acting childish now. It's embarrassing.


Economic issues are not related to crime rates? Okay. I'm out.
dpw
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:36:53 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/15/2013
Posts: 4,464
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Dani wrote:


This is all so laughably ideal.

You think knowing who did it is enough? A great bit of women who are raped or assaulted know their attacker. It makes no difference. It's about proving it. And there are great lengths one has to go through to prove someone did the crime. It's all an embarrassing and invasive process, and it's much like being raped all over again.

It may not shift the blame, but it definitely shifts the responsibility (which isn't much different).

Ashleigh made some excellent points regarding men's responsibility in all of this. Perhaps you should give those a look before further posting on the subject.

I was answering from a quote of mine that she made. I have read this thread, hell I've been in it. Perhaps you should look at them!
So tell me, what do you propose? Don't report it, maybe decriminalise it? Nice! If so don't complain when it happens because they are all walking around scot free.
I never said it was easy or it wasn't degrading. I never said that it would stop rape, but it might stop a rapist doing it again.
And I don't need to be lectured about when to post and when not to post!
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:42:14 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,665
Location: California
MrNudiePants wrote:


Economic issues are not related to crime rates? Okay. I'm out.


That's not what I said.

Explain how the economies of the United States and Australia are so different to the point that it is warping the stats on murder in australia after they put real gun regulation in place. We aren't comparing Nigeria to the UK here.

Explain how they are so vastly different, please.

Oh that's right you can't.

dpw
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:50:07 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/15/2013
Posts: 4,464
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
daddysweetheart wrote:


Of course I understand.

And maybe they felt like me.....

I can't speak for them..

It's that, that is wrong! It's how to make it easier for the victim that needs to be adressed. A victim should not have to be scared or ashamed, they shouldn't have to question themselves. They are the victim and should be treated as such.
MostPreciousLittle
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:53:26 PM

Rank: MostPreciousLittle

Joined: 11/14/2013
Posts: 8,841
Location: An angel dropped down from heaven
dpw wrote:

It's that, that is wrong! It's how to make it easier for the victim that needs to be adressed. A victim should not have to be scared or ashamed, they shouldn't have to question themselves. They are the victim and should be treated as such.


You're getting mad at imaginary victims now? You're acting like you "know" these imaginary victims.
Should I not be surprised? Maybe less coffee?

They are imaginary because this is in theory.

I'm.a fucking survivor.




Dani
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:57:32 PM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch
Moderator

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 7,187
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
dpw wrote:

I was answering from a quote of mine that she made. I have read this thread, hell I've been in it. Perhaps you should look at them!
So tell me, what do you propose? Don't report it, maybe decriminalise it? Nice! If so don't complain when it happens because they are all walking around scot free.
I never said it was easy or it wasn't degrading. I never said that it would stop rape, but it might stop a rapist doing it again.
And I don't need to be lectured about when to post and when not to post!


1. I'm not saying don't report it. I'm saying reporting it is hardly half the battle and you're making it out to be the ultimate solution.
2. I don't have to decriminalize rape. Society's done a good enough job of that already.
3. The rapists are still walking around 'scot free' despite thousands of reported rapes files along with their respective rape kits sitting around collecting dust.
4. Rapists continue to rape because something's rarely done about it due to the fault usually being placed on the women who can't do much about it in the first place.
5. I'm not lecturing you. Grow up. You get so emotional and indignant and make every serious debate about you. It's embarrassing to watch. You've proven time and time again that you're just not fit for serious debating.

I never said they shouldn't be reported. I'm just saying why most aren't reported. It's not a worthwhile process. And until it's made a worthwhile process, many rapes will continue to go on unreported.

So how about instead of going around telling women to suck it up and report it, you tell this patriarchal society about being much more proactive when it comes to the rape culture as a whole?

The little women can do about rape has been proven time and time again not to be enough.




Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:02:14 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,665
Location: California
And people wonder why more often than not women don't report a rape.



Statistics from Justice Department, National Crime Victimization Survey: 2006-2010 and FBI reports.

NOTE (1/7/13): For more detail on statistics used, please click here.

MostPreciousLittle
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:07:18 PM

Rank: MostPreciousLittle

Joined: 11/14/2013
Posts: 8,841
Location: An angel dropped down from heaven
Dani wrote:


1. I'm not saying don't report it. I'm saying reporting it is hardly half the battle and you're making it out to be the ultimate solution.
2. I don't have to decriminalize rape. Society's done a good enough job of that already.
3. The rapists are still walking around 'scot free' despite thousands of reported rapes files along with their respective rape kits sitting around collecting dust.
4. Rapists continue to rape because something's rarely done about it due to the fault usually being placed on the women who can't do much about it in the first place.
5.*********-** I'm not lecturing you. Grow up. You get so emotional and indignant and make every serious debate about you. It's embarrassing to watch. You've proven time and time again that you're just not fit for serious debating. **********

I never said they shouldn't be reported. I'm just saying why most aren't reported. It's not a worthwhile process. And until it's made a worthwhile process, many rapes will continue to go on unreported.

So how about instead of going around telling women to suck it up and report it, you tell this patriarchal society about being much more proactive when it comes to the rape culture as a whole?

The little women can do about rape has been proven time and time again not to be enough.


Once again, thank you Dani.



LadyX
Posted: Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:18:20 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
dpw wrote:

Good job I'm not American, lol. I've just read it, and the first 12 amendments, complete with all the non pc references to Indians. Heavy reading setting up a country.



I'm sure it was.

You presented two options as if they were contradictory legal sets of rights. FYI- they are not.

"lol"
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