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Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 others. Is it rape culture, guns or something else? Options · View
kiera
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 12:57:05 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/23/2013
Posts: 14,236
Location: Sipping tea , United Kingdom
Magical_felix wrote:


Yes but throughout this thread you have mentioned how women should be responsible for their own decisions. Decisions they made that resulted in them getting abused, raped, harassed, made to feel fearful etc. You have stated that if they had guns this wouldn't happen. You blame them for not making proper decisions like arming themselves or staying sober for them getting raped. You are basically telling them it's their fault for taking a knife to a gun fight. A gun fight that they didn't ask to be a part of.


Sorry Jack I truly wasn't sure which to quote. I am a wardog victim (now know as withering dreams) if he is referring to which threads to look at perhaps check mine and ginger86's posts. He surely believes I am responsible for leading him on, I am 36 he is 64 WTF. I was just nice but clearly once he realised nothing was reciprocated he became abusive, denied the fact he knew I was unavailable from day one and blamed me for all. This all transpired after his neighbour moved and he sent me yet again countless emails one of which said he hoped to marry me altho he denies this I have the zillion emails. He Wanted me Ginger and him to be together he even checked out flight costs said it was what we all wanted WTF? Did we Fuck.

I later checked with a mutual friend who he had been evasive over and she told me straight to delete him immediately which I did and blocked him. Tosser can deny it all he wants ive got all the emails so his forums rants are just that. As are his claims the mods have deemed him blameless I assure u and him the mods have seen them all.

@ Sprite I just want to Hug you I am so so sorry Big Hugs Big Hugs Big Hugs
LadyX
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 1:01:24 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,813
Let's leave personal discussions about other members out of this thread and off the forums please.

Thank you.
jollylolly
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 1:02:43 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/24/2012
Posts: 610
Location: Texas, United States
LadyX wrote:


Women have the right to be raped. Freedom in 2014 America: savor it.


They will only be happy if they can do this while shooting an AK-47 and giving someone an unwanted vaginal ultrasound.
Magical_felix
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 1:04:00 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,333
Location: California
kiera wrote:


Sorry Jack I truly wasn't sure which to quote. I am a wardog victim (now know as withering dreams) if he is referring to which threads to look at perhaps check mine and ginger86's posts. He surely believes I am responsible for leading him on, I am 36 he is 64 WTF. I was just nice but clearly once he realised nothing was reciprocated he became abusive


I gathered that from the rants I saw. No need to pull them up. They are not needed in this thread. That's unfortunate that happened and good thing you don't know him in real life.



kiera
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 1:08:24 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/23/2013
Posts: 14,236
Location: Sipping tea , United Kingdom
Magical_felix wrote:


I gathered that from the rants I saw. No need to pull them up. They are not needed in this thread. I think it is clear what type of vomit witherindreams is. That's unfortunate that happened and good thing you don't know him in real life.


agreed and sorry to all I just saw his usual blameless self posts and felt he was ruining the thread especially after Sprites.

My apologies LadyX I wont do it again
daddysweetheart
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 1:09:53 PM

Rank: Beautiful Submissive

Joined: 11/14/2013
Posts: 3,396
ChateauGrand wrote:


You're not really impressing anyone and nobody cares about your life's work. Your worldview is still extremely warped and counter-intuitive. There are certainly things people can do that can and will solve a lot of these issues, but people like you are preventing that from ever happening.

By the way, CAPITALISING random WORDS for NO reason is REALLY annoying and I think I speak for EVERYONE else in THIS thread when I SAY that you should STOP, it DOESN'T get your POINT across any better than TYPING NORMALLY.


Nevermind.

Guest
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 1:25:01 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 674,138
a
LadyX
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 1:31:03 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,813
Weavindreams
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 1:39:17 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/28/2013
Posts: 8,180
Location: On the bluffs above the Mississippi River., United
THIS is what I was talking about, but don't let truth stand in the way of a good story. And, you wonder WHY I simultaneously condemn those who DO post that stuff and shake my head at the ADULT who CHOSE to make it possible? The allusion to rape is more BS. AT NO TIME have I said anything to that effect.


I'll leave further commentary to those whose admissions and multiple profiles are a "testament" to their innocence and honesty! And, to Mr. Defamation himself.
Feel free to ignore unpleasant FACTUAL reality while Felix "the Pied Piper" explains how it can all simply be legislated away.

sprite
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 1:41:20 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 16,665
Location: My Tower, United States
Weavindreams wrote:


Oh I see so NOW you're saying that WOMEN are NOT adults but children? And as such are NOT responsible for THEIR OWN DECISIONS? Hmm THAT IS an interesting mindset.

And, FYI; MANY women have had their safety and protection left in my hands in my capacity as a bouncer, and as a Security Officer (I was MOST diligent in performing my duties, unlike several others who were too busy FLIRTING to DO THE JOB AT HAND!) WHY do YOU remind me of THOSE guys?


seems to me that the guys had a choice to NOT take those pictures and repost them or use them for whatever. they could have taken the high road and simply not been assholes. instead, the decided to be assholes. really, we should expect ALL guys to be asshole, then, right? works for me. :)

Live, love, laugh.
LadyX
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 1:53:11 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,813
Weavindreams wrote:
....it can all simply be legislated away.


Again, where is this talk about politicians, big brother, and legislation coming from? Nobody's suggesting anything of that sort. This is about society and what those in it find acceptable from one another.
Magical_felix
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 1:58:42 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,333
Location: California
Weavindreams wrote:

Felix "the Pied Piper"




I'm through with love hangovers,
It's best that I stay sober.
No rolling in the clover,
No Gretna Green trip over.
No honeymoon in Paris,
I only feel embarrassed
For the cool cats,
The charmed kittens,
Both smitten by the love songs
That he's written.
Caught in the sights
Of a deadly sniper:
The magic piper of love.
The magic piper of love.
Of love, of love.

My girlfriend, she go blotto
Of cunnings and his grotto.
It turns out he's a dirty old man.
The nice place that I want to be,
Is sat up on this Christmas tree,
While playing these games of
Catch as catch can.
Cause he's a sweet talker,
A silent stalker.
All the savvy of a street walker.
More deadly than a horned viper:
The magic piper of love.
The magic piper of love.
Of love, of love.

He's a heart breaker,
A mover and a shaker:
The magic piper of love.

It's kind of hard to swallow,
You know you've gotta follow,
The magic piper of love.

Cause he's a city slicker,
An expert politic-er:
The magic piper of love.

Of love, of love.
Of love, of love.
Of love, of love..




elicia
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 2:55:24 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 8/31/2013
Posts: 89
Location: socal, United States
People....people...PEOPLE!

This thread has become a fight with a total moron/imbecile/jackass/punk/liar/victim. Worthlessdreams has hijacked this thread and turned it into his own personal battleground. Quit talking to this idiot. Quit responding. His opinions obviously are not wanted. They are not acceptable. They are not even educated.

When Donald Sterling was given a shot at regaining his composure...but turned it into another moronic gaff by attacking Magic Johnson...the collective attitude of anyone who said anything was simple, "Okay, you can just go away and shut up now!

Apply the same logic here.

Give us back our topic by ignoring this ignoramus!

Christ, they shoot horses don't they?
sprite
Posted: Friday, May 30, 2014 10:05:55 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 16,665
Location: My Tower, United States
This may seem like a completely non-sequitur statement, but if anyone ends up seeing Maleficent, keep this discussion in mind during the movie.



Live, love, laugh.
wanderlustlove
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 6:08:53 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 10/10/2013
Posts: 22
Location: United Kingdom
Why is this particular tragedy garnishing so much news? A white male born into privilege and entitlement coupled with obvious personality issue and the US's lacklustre response to gun violence seems a recipe for disaster. Women raped, murdered and abused every single day - they don't make the news as they weren't killed by a C-list celebrities offspring.
LittleLuce
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 6:56:50 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/14/2013
Posts: 6,586
Location: Here n' there, United Kingdom
wanderlustlove wrote:
Why is this particular tragedy garnishing so much news? A white male born into privilege and entitlement coupled with obvious personality issue and the US's lacklustre response to gun violence seems a recipe for disaster. Women raped, murdered and abused every single day - they don't make the news as they weren't killed by a C-list celebrities offspring.


It's not just this particular tragedy that has hit the news heavily - in the past Waco, McDonalds, The Cinema killings, schools, colleges as well as others that I have not mentioned here have all been heavily covered in the past. What it does highlight is how accessible guns are to people of an unstable nature and the American governments need to come up with a solution.
With the Second Amendment in place to protect peoples rights, it doesn't seem to protect peoples rights to live any longer than an individual with a gun would see fit to allow them to.
Without the heavy worldwide news coverage of these tragedies as well as such coverage on social media, just maybe it will hit home hard enough for the American government to come up with a solution. We've also had tragedies occur like this here in Britain over past decades but thankfully due to the strict laws and the fact that guns have never been that popular in the UK, the incidents have been few and far between.

As far as rape is concerned, you may find the answers you're looking for elsewhere in this thread.





daddysweetheart
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 12:52:28 PM

Rank: Beautiful Submissive

Joined: 11/14/2013
Posts: 3,396
elicia wrote:
People....people...PEOPLE!

This thread has become a fight with a total moron/imbecile/jackass/punk/liar/victim. Worthlessdreams has hijacked this thread and turned it into his own personal battleground. Quit talking to this idiot. Quit responding. His opinions obviously are not wanted. They are not acceptable. They are not even educated.

When Donald Sterling was given a shot at regaining his composure...but turned it into another moronic gaff by attacking Magic Johnson...the collective attitude of anyone who said anything was simple, "Okay, you can just go away and shut up now!

Apply the same logic here.

****Although he was a friend before, and yes was there for me, he turned into someone I no longer cared for.*****
Give us back our topic by ignoring this ignoramus!

Christ, they shoot horses don't they?
daddysweetheart
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 12:54:53 PM

Rank: Beautiful Submissive

Joined: 11/14/2013
Posts: 3,396
ChateauGrand wrote:


You're not really impressing anyone and nobody cares about your life's work. Your worldview is still extremely warped and counter-intuitive. There are certainly things people can do that can and will solve a lot of these issues, but people like you are preventing that from ever happening.

By the way, CAPITALISING random WORDS for NO reason is REALLY annoying and I think I speak for EVERYONE else in THIS thread when I SAY that you should STOP, it DOESN'T get your POINT across any better than TYPING NORMALLY.


Applauds you..thanks.

Big Hugs
She
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 1:04:33 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 2,547
Location: Europe
Some of the comments are preposterous.

Even though I believe people should take care of themselves, it is absolutely beyond my imagination to blame victim for anything. No one has the right to damage the other one on purpose such is rape and murder. We can defend rapists and murderers that they weren't in their right mind when doing a crime, the bottom line is that we all have to keep our sanity clean, it is in our hands, so I have absolutely no sympathy for criminals, abusers, and in general for people who are damaging other for their own benefit. It is just ugh.
elicia
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 5:49:52 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 8/31/2013
Posts: 89
Location: socal, United States
wanderlustlove wrote:
Why is this particular tragedy garnishing so much news? A white male born into privilege and entitlement coupled with obvious personality issue and the US's lacklustre response to gun violence seems a recipe for disaster. Women raped, murdered and abused every single day - they don't make the news as they weren't killed by a C-list celebrities offspring.


You are very exact when you say that women are often abused. What brings this to front of the discussion, I think, is the collective understanding that some discussion and brain storming needs to be done to address the situation. Most citizens have too much on their plate to care...unless it is delivered to them in a national discussion. Politicians aren't aren't going to move alone unless it benefits them somehow.

Hence, the discussion.

To just accept that we live in a "dangerous world" is weak. It is a copout and most ignorant. Now that we got rid of the loony's can we carry on with the discussion or has it lost steam?
elicia
Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2014 8:08:46 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 8/31/2013
Posts: 89
Location: socal, United States
She wrote:
Some of the comments are preposterous.

Even though I believe people should take care of themselves, it is absolutely beyond my imagination to blame victim for anything. No one has the right to damage the other one on purpose such is rape and murder. We can defend rapists and murderers that they weren't in their right mind when doing a crime, the bottom line is that we all have to keep our sanity clean, it is in our hands, so I have absolutely no sympathy for criminals, abusers, and in general for people who are damaging other for their own benefit. It is just ugh.


You are right...it is just ugh! But, it takes a village to raise children, right? If this world is so crazy dangerous, it is going to take a village to take care of the people that occupy the village as well. If that means changing societies attitudes, it is going take discussion...and a village. If it means changing the regulations on gun laws...it is going to take discussion, which we have, but it's going to take many villages to keep the pressure on until thinking is mainstream acceptable.

It begins with taking care of ourselves...but it is extended to the village to make sure that wrongs are righted, that the weak have a voice (strength in numbers) and that our collective attitudes are changed.

MrNudiePants wrote - And posts like this indicate why people on my side of the fence are so wary of people on the other side. Cause folks like this don't care about my rights, and they don't care what my opinion is. They want to pass any law their spur of the moment emoting tells them is "the right thing to do". No logic, no thought, no learning from history.

This is exactly the attitude that needs to be addressed in the discussion. Because nobody is talking about taking the guns away. Only changing the regulations to make the tracking of guns more responsible, for taking more steps to insure that those that have them are being more responsible with them and for taking them out of at the very least some of the hands they don't belong in. Attitudes like this are not only uneducated, they are self-centered and lack any empathy for the victims of mass murder as well as the level of everyday violence in our villages that somehow is, apparently, acceptable to people like this when, bottom line...to a society...it is sick, wrong and unsustainable and acceptable. All in the name of his so-called rights.

You are damn right MrNudiePants...I don't give two shits about your rights at the cost of so much death. Rights change all the time...it's about time that more gun responsibility is a right that is afforded to potential victims.
elicia
Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2014 12:22:06 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 8/31/2013
Posts: 89
Location: socal, United States
daddysweetheart wrote

elicia wrote:
People....people...PEOPLE!

This thread has become a fight with a total moron/imbecile/jackass/punk/liar/victim. Worthlessdreams has hijacked this thread and turned it into his own personal battleground. Quit talking to this idiot. Quit responding. His opinions obviously are not wanted. They are not acceptable. They are not even educated.

When Donald Sterling was given a shot at regaining his composure...but turned it into another moronic gaff by attacking Magic Johnson...the collective attitude of anyone who said anything was simple, "Okay, you can just go away and shut up now!

Apply the same logic here.

****Although he was a friend before, and yes was there for me, he turned into someone I no longer cared for.*****
Give us back our topic by ignoring this ignoramus!

Christ, they shoot horses don't they? wrote:





Daddysweetheart...why did you quote me...say nothing outside of my quote but add the text that I have highlighted in red...INSIDE my quote. I didn't say this. This guy was never my friend. I never talked to to this guy before this thread. Did you mean to put that text outside my quote as your own statement? Because what you did was change my quote.
She
Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2014 2:09:16 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 2,547
Location: Europe
elicia wrote:


You are right...it is just ugh! But, it takes a village to raise children, right? If this world is so crazy dangerous, it is going to take a village to take care of the people that occupy the village as well. If that means changing societies attitudes, it is going take discussion...and a village. If it means changing the regulations on gun laws...it is going to take discussion, which we have, but it's going to take many villages to keep the pressure on until thinking is mainstream acceptable.

It begins with taking care of ourselves...but it is extended to the village to make sure that wrongs are righted, that the weak have a voice (strength in numbers) and that our collective attitudes are changed.


MrNudiePants wrote - And posts like this indicate why people on my side of the fence are so wary of people on the other side. Cause folks like this don't care about my rights, and they don't care what my opinion is. They want to pass any law their spur of the moment emoting tells them is "the right thing to do". No logic, no thought, no learning from history.

This is exactly the attitude that needs to be addressed in the discussion. Because nobody is talking about taking the guns away. Only changing the regulations to make the tracking of guns more responsible, for taking more steps to insure that those that have them are being more responsible with them and for taking them out of at the very least some of the hands they don't belong in. Attitudes like this are not only uneducated, they are self-centered and lack any empathy for the victims of mass murder as well as the level of everyday violence in our villages that somehow is, apparently, acceptable to people like this when, bottom line...to a society...it is sick, wrong and unsustainable and acceptable. All in the name of his so-called rights.

You are damn right MrNudiePants...I don't give two shits about your rights at the cost of so much death. Rights change all the time...it's about time that more gun responsibility is a right that is afforded to potential victims.



I don't really agree when people are blaming society for their mistakes, bad luck and so on. Society is made of individuals, individuals are the one who should make difference in their own life and not expecting others to change so they can live in the world they think is right. However, world is not perfect, we are not perfect so that is why we are where we are. Personally I strongly believe that we would be better as society if we wouldn't wait society to get better.

When it comes to raising children, it takes just one committed parent to raise a child, maybe that child wont be the happiest one, but for sure he/she will have values for life. It is not easy for a child to accept that everything has been thought outside the house it is a no in the house. Not the happiest childhood, but with values for the future life.

When I said that that people should take care of themselves, I didn't have in mind weapon. If I will elaborate that statement some more it could take this discussion into the despicable way of blaming the victims which I most certainly don't want, so I will not say a thing.
daddysweetheart
Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2014 2:16:35 PM

Rank: Beautiful Submissive

Joined: 11/14/2013
Posts: 3,396
elicia wrote:





Daddysweetheart...why did you quote me...say nothing outside of my quote but add the text that I have highlighted in red...INSIDE my quote. I didn't say this. This guy was never my friend. I never talked to to this guy before this thread. Did you mean to put that text outside my quote as your own statement? Because what you did was change my quote.


As my own statement yes....

elicia
Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2014 2:54:46 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 8/31/2013
Posts: 89
Location: socal, United States
She wrote:



I don't really agree when people are blaming society for their mistakes, bad luck and so on. Society is made of individuals, individuals are the one who should make difference in their own life and not expecting others to change so they can live in the world they think is right. However, world is not perfect, we are not perfect so that is why we are where we are. Personally I strongly believe that we would be better as society if we wouldn't wait society to get better.

When it comes to raising children, it takes just one committed parent to raise a child, maybe that child wont be the happiest one, but for sure he/she will have values for life. It is not easy for a child to accept that everything has been thought outside the house it is a no in the house. Not the happiest childhood, but with values for the future life.

When I said that that people should take care of themselves, I didn't have in mind weapon. If I will elaborate that statement some more it could take this discussion into the despicable way of blaming the victims which I most certainly don't want, so I will not say a thing.


I totally understand your position but I must disagree with you. When a woman is followed home after work, as happened in my city just this week, and is surprised in the darkness and raped by a man who was just released from prison, little could she have done to avoid her "mistake" of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and just trying to get home. Please don't misunderstand me, we clearly are a world of individuals who are expected to make the right decisions for our own destiny/result. However, we must rely on the village as the teaching begins in the home and then extends to the teachers and school when the parent is not present...village. It extends even further to the neighbor...when children are at play, away from the watchful eye of a parent...village. (A situation in my city just happened two days ago when a child abductor tried snatching a 10 y/o girl. The incident was thwarted when a neighbor boy, age 8. saw what was happening and started yelling, ran toward the abductor and the little girl and began kicking at the bastards heels. He ran...village.) It extends to the local police...village. And extends even further to city, state and federal officials who institute policy and law...village.

I certainly hope that if you are ever in need of help from the village around you that you raise your voice loud enough to summon the help you need so those can come to your assistance, rather than suck it up and just accept the outcome of your misfortune.

Without a village, we are nothing.
She
Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2014 3:30:15 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 2,547
Location: Europe
elicia wrote:


I totally understand your position but I must disagree with you. When a woman is followed home after work, as happened in my city just this week, and is surprised in the darkness and raped by a man who was just released from prison, little could she have done to avoid her "mistake" of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and just trying to get home. Please don't misunderstand me, we clearly are a world of individuals who are expected to make the right decisions for our own destiny/result. However, we must rely on the village as the teaching begins in the home and then extends to the teachers and school when the parent is not present...village. It extends even further to the neighbor...when children are at play, away from the watchful eye of a parent...village. (A situation in my city just happened two days ago when a child abductor tried snatching a 10 y/o girl. The incident was thwarted when a neighbor boy, age 8. saw what was happening and started yelling, ran toward the abductor and the little girl and began kicking at the bastards heels. He ran...village.) It extends to the local police...village. And extends even further to city, state and federal officials who institute policy and law...village.

I certainly hope that if you are ever in need of help from the village around you that you raise your voice loud enough to summon the help you need so those can come to your assistance, rather than suck it up and just accept the outcome of your misfortune.

Without a village, we are nothing.


I am not really sure what you disagree with. When I said that a person who harms others shouldn't blame society for being a bad one, or when I said that we as individuals are responsible for our own life, or when I said that parent should take interest in childrens wealth and not let society be the one who is raising them?

Of course that we as humans are social beings, I never said it differently and we as humans do interact with others, with village as you put it, but we shouldn't depend and wait for village to bring us our wealth.

And I am really not sure what you wanted to say with your warning that if something is about to happen, village will save me.
Don't you see, no one can save us until we will make better society, we can make better society only when and if we as individuals will become better, make better society and not waiting for others to do it first. That is what I was talking about and partly referring to the OP

P.S. some friends of mine pointed out that my forum posts can be interpreted as fighting or even attacking. It is not the case, it is just the way I express myself.
elicia
Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2014 5:51:47 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 8/31/2013
Posts: 89
Location: socal, United States
She wrote:


I am not really sure what you disagree with. When I said that a person who harms others shouldn't blame society for being a bad one, or when I said that we as individuals are responsible for our own life, or when I said that parent should take interest in childrens wealth and not let society be the one who is raising them?

Of course that we as humans are social beings, I never said it differently and we as humans do interact with others, with village as you put it, but we shouldn't depend and wait for village to bring us our wealth.

And I am really not sure what you wanted to say with your warning that if something is about to happen, village will save me.
Don't you see, no one can save us until we will make better society, we can make better society only when and if we as individuals will become better, make better society and not waiting for others to do it first. That is what I was talking about and partly referring to the OP

P.S. some friends of mine pointed out that my forum posts can be interpreted as fighting or even attacking. It is not the case, it is just the way I express myself.


I think we are misunderstanding each other because I didn't realize you were talking about the bad person blaming society for his woes. Sorry.

And it wasn't a warning that if something goes terribly wrong with an event in your life that a village might save you. It was a hope that you would be acceptable of a villages assistance. Kinda like the "no man is an island" mentality. My bad. occasion5
Magical_felix
Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2014 9:43:34 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,333
Location: California
The first—and last—word on Elliot Rodger, as written eloquently by Ezra Klein:

This is the entire article below if you don't wish to follow the link.

Quote:
Elliot Rodger is the most dangerous possible shooter for an age of media saturation. His chilling clips were on YouTube — and can be replayed across a thousand nightly news broadcasts. His posts litter forums, and more are sure to be discovered. His family is connected to celebrities. He was handsome in a way, and a student at a sexy, sun-drenched school on the California coast. His madness was a weaponized mixture of rich-kid entitlement, aching lonesomeness, and digital cries for help. He seems less like a person than like a character from an artsy slasher flick meant to comment on inequality, misogyny, gun violence, and online alienation. He will be irresistible to the media. And that makes him a threat even in death.

There's a reason the media rarely reports on suicides. Sociologists long ago discovered that suicide is contagious — and media coverage helps its spread. There are guidelines endorsed by the Centers for Disease Control, the World Health Organization, the National Institutes of Mental Health, the Office of the Surgeon General, and others warning against "inadvertently romanticizing suicide or idealizing those who take their own lives by portraying suicide as a heroic or romantic act." They also caution media outlets against credulously relaying the testimony of the deceased. "The cause of an individual suicide is invariably more complicated than a recent painful event such as the break-up of a relationship or the loss of a job," they write.

But the national media reports ceaselessly on mass murders. Cameras are often there to cover the actual shooting, and they don't leave until weeks or months after the final press conference. Magazines profile the killers, lingering on their fashion affectations or their love of death metal or their disturbed art or the maddening realization that they didn't seem like killers at all. These are all natural attempts to understand a tragedy. But the end up glorifying the murderer — and possibly creating copycats.

[b]Sociologists believe that mass murder is contagious, too. "The tornado of media coverage that swirls around each such mass killing," wrote Zeynep Tufekci at The Atlantic, "and the acute interest in the identity and characteristics of the shooter -- as well as [b]the detailed and sensationalist reporting of the killer's steps just before and during the shootings — may be creating a vicious cycle of copycat effects similar to those found in teen and other suicides." They also may be fulfilling the shooter's hopes and dreams.

"Isn't it fun to get the respect that we're going to deserve?" said Columbine shooter Eric Harris. He and his partner, Dylan Klebold, had hoped that Steven Spielberg and Quentin Tarantino would fight to tell their story. Instead, it was Gus Van Sant who fictionalized their lives on the silver screen.

In the New York Times, Adam Lankford, an assistant professor of criminal justice at the University of Alabama, summarized three motivations for suicidal mass murderers. The first is they are "struggling with mental health problems that have produced their desire to die." The second is "a deep sense of victimization and belief that the killer's life has been ruined by someone else, who has bullied, oppressed or persecuted him." The third "is the desire to acquire fame and glory through killing."

Every time a mass murderer wins fame and glory through killing it helps convince the next mass murderer that a shooting spree will give them the respect in death that they were never able to acquire in life.

Rodger's writings are a sick mixture of megalomania and self-pity. "I was desperate to have the life I know I deserve; a life of being wanted by attractive girls, a life of sex and love. Other men are able to have such a life," he wrote in his 141-page autobiography. "So why not me? I deserve it! I am magnificent, no matter how much the world treated me otherwise. I am destined for great things."

Unable to be the hero of his own story he decided to become the villain of everyone else’s. And, with the unwitting cooperation of 24/7 media, he will become a national villain. And other sick young men will see him get the renown in death that they have have never been able to receive in life.

This is an easy dilemma to point out. It is much harder to solve. Even the act of writing this article contributes to the problem. I've described Rodger's life, his grievances, his writings. I've quoted from his manifesto and compared him to past notorious mass murderers. I've made him that much more famous.

Tufekci offers some recommendations. "There should be no reporting of the killer's words, or actions before or during the shooting," she writes. The name of the killer should not be officially confirmed until the trial. And she warns against "stories about which guns exactly were used or how much robo-cop gear was utilized."

This amounts, of course, to a kind of call for censorship around a national event. There are some precedents. She points to the kidnapping of NBC's Richard Engel in Syria as an example. "The information about his capture, though obviously newsworthy, was held back in order to aid the negotiations and rescue efforts," she writes. But routinizing that kind of censorship is probably impossible, even if it was wise.

Another possibility, though, would be to say less about the killer and more about the victims. The women and men Rodger shot had lives, too. They had social media accounts, and friends, and they made art and wrote essays. Perhaps there's a way to honor the victims rather than glorifying their murderer. Perhaps it would give future mass murders pause to know that they would be making their enemies into national heroes rather than making themselves into national villains.


So this interesting article brings up something that was touched upon earlier in this thread but not really elaborated on by anyone. The media and the roll they play in this phenomenon of suicidal mass murderers.

Could the media be fueling copy cat mass murderers?

Is the infamy they will certainly gain in death be enough incentive to push someone over the edge?

Can reporting on the specific guns, tactics, body armor, motivations, failed plans and successful plans be giving other potential killers ideas?

If the media holds back from reporting on suicide, suicide rates, ways of suicides etc, is it also possible for them to hold back on reporting mass murder? The media proved it is actually capable of blacking out a story for the greater good like they did with the journalist who was kidnapped in Syria.

Is saying that these young men who kill masses of people are simply copy cats who may not have done this if it wasn't for the media making other killers infamous also a cop out?



LittleLuce
Posted: Monday, June 02, 2014 11:02:20 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/14/2013
Posts: 6,586
Location: Here n' there, United Kingdom
Felix that was a wonderful account, but I believe that media/social media are not to blame for his actions - it was in him and it would almost certainly have been in him for most of his life, even if he had been able to contain it. He just used social media to advertise his madness.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dispatches/2014/05/i_could_have_been_elliot_rodger_young_frustrated_and_full_of_rage_toward.2.html





Magical_felix
Posted: Monday, June 02, 2014 11:17:46 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,333
Location: California
LittleLuce wrote:
Felix that was a wonderful account, but I believe that media/social media are not to blame for his actions - it was in him and it would almost certainly have been in him for most of his life, even if he had been able to contain it. He just used social media to advertise his madness.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dispatches/2014/05/i_could_have_been_elliot_rodger_young_frustrated_and_full_of_rage_toward.2.html


So you think that the allure of infamy in death is not a contributing factor in him making the ultimate decision? I'm not talking about him, himself, using social media. I mean the endless media coverage that happens after these killings.

You said "it" would have been in him even if he was able to contain it. I think what makes "it" happen in him is his perceived lot in life and possible mental illness. What turns "it" into the will to carry out a mass killing/suicide is how easy guns make it to do so and also the fact that they will be remembered forever (look at the columbine killers, people still remember their names). In eliot rodger's case he has even been glorified for it by many men.

I can definitely see other angry bitter men with a lot of guns and a low mental capacity "getting ideas" and maybe wanting to copy cat or even outdo rodger.



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