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Assisted Suicide - What's your view? Options · View
Guest
Posted: Monday, August 04, 2014 1:07:24 PM

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Dirty_D wrote:



I don't know anyone who is a CNA, RN, LPN, RT, or MD who doesn't care about their patients. Its hard work, and there are a lot easier ways to make a living. I've attended funerals for patients I cared about. I've held hands, hugged family, shared food, and bought things for patients with my own $ (cards, flowers, and just last week, hair bands/detangler for a pt who had no family, and couldnt keep her long hair from knotting up).


By the same token, I've been stopped by family on the street before and recognized for my care of a family member. Nothing happens in a vacuum. When you see people like that, you can't help but form a connection. No matter how much professional distance you might try to keep.

It's important to realize that patients are people first, and patients second.
Well just do the best you can to take care of yourself too. Don't pussh yourself to the point of burn-out. easier said than done, i know.

Most of the in- patients where i work have to be tranfered from cart to table to bed via lift help or a slide. I'd say about 85 to 90 percent of all our patients are non-ambulatory. intraCranial bolt, chest tube(s) NG tube, foley catheter, Plenty of iv lines, intubated etc... Rib fractures, pelvic fractures, internal injuries. . It's a big production just to complete a CT scan. but it helps when you have a lot of support at your disposal. Still not a typical day at the office, that's for sure. Not saying a day at the office is stress free mind you.










BiMale73
Posted: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 10:07:56 AM

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Ajax wrote:
I think the pro death people in this thread were under the impression that asssisted suicide is quick and painless 100% of the time. What i posted shows otherwise.

Pro death? You seem to have a tendency of fear-mongering. First you keep insinuating that doctors or family members will decide for the patients instead of the patients themselves and now this. It's 'pro assisted suicide' or 'pro choice' if you will.

Ajax wrote:
If you want to kill yourself all you need is an Human anatomy and physiology course.

They don't want to kill themselves, they want to die. Killing oneself is not the goal, no longer living is.

Ajax wrote:
A gun is 100% more reliable, than assisted suiicide , provided you know what you're doing.

I've worked with a guy who took a couple bottles of lidocaine, needles , syringe and scalpel from the hospital. He commited suicide by cutting his femoral arteries
in his bathtub.

But you can't have your loved ones present then, can you? Unless you want to traumatize them for the rest of their lives and have them be investigated for (complicity to) murder.


Guest
Posted: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 2:18:14 PM

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BiMale73 wrote:

But you can't have your loved ones present then, can you? Unless you want to traumatize them for the rest of their lives and have them be investigated for (complicity to) murder.


No, i was just saying those methods would appear to be more reliable than what's currently in place under assisted suicide.

The reason most are in favor of assisted suicide was is because they were under the impression it's quick , comfortable and dignified.
What i linked would indicate otherwise. What Oregon has currently in place, seems rather lazy and half assed to me.

The definition of 'suicide' is the act of killing oneself right? So , by assisting you're helping with that.

People don't want to kill themselves, they just want to die? um,,, what?

I said early on that i was concerned about how assisted suicide would impact the quality of health care. But fuck that, right?

Because that's not the question? If you want a yes or no answer, or for everyone to agree, then maybe it shouldn't be a think tank topic.

Lucy, posted of her experience at a nursing home. Those patients wouldn't even meet the protocol requirments for assisted suiicide in the U.S. .











LittleLuce
Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2014 2:46:50 PM

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Ajax wrote:


No, i was just saying those methods would appear to be more reliable than what's currently in place under assisted suicide.

The reason most are in favor of assisted suicide was is because they were under the impression it's quick , comfortable and dignified.
What i linked would indicate otherwise. What Oregon has currently in place, seems rather lazy and half assed to me.

The definition of 'suicide' is the act of killing oneself right? So , by assisting you're helping with that.

People don't want to kill themselves, they just want to die? um,,, what?

I said early on that i was concerned about how assisted suicide would impact the quality of health care. But fuck that, right?

Because that's not the question? If you want a yes or no answer, or for everyone to agree, then maybe it shouldn't be a think tank topic.

Lucy, posted of her experience at a nursing home. Those patients wouldn't even meet the protocol requirments for assisted suiicide in the U.S. .





I have to say that I'm a little astounded by some of the things that you have said Ajax considering that you stated awhile back that you are involved with heath care. I do feel that the more you see of something you dislike - the more you become immune to the severity of it. For that reason I don't think that health care workers are necessarily the best people to consult about a subject like assisted suicide. That's not to say that you're not entitled to your own opinion - of course you are and I'm glad you have posted here. You did state in your last post however........


" Lucy, posted of her experience at a nursing home. Those patients wouldn't even meet the protocol requirments for assisted suiicide in the U.S"

How do you know that? You wouldn't be able to know that! Apart from one or two states in the U.S, assisted suicide doesn't exist. It is these terminally and mentally ill patients that ARE asking for assisted suicide to be brought in.

We have as I stated in my starter thread, just had a debate on assisted suicide - it was a discussion in the house of commons with an even amount of 'fors' and 'againsts' being put forward for discussion. It has a long way to go yet before any possible vote could be put in place. But the bigger the population gets, the more terminally ill people there will be, the more stress there will be on a healthcare system ultimately leading to a poorer level of care for patients of all illness types.

There are very few countries that have brought in 'assisted suicide' and if Britain were to vote it in at sometime in the future then other countries around the world will start to consider it for sure, and if the American people were to see us bring it in - I know they will start asking for the same considerations to be made available to them as we are very close allies.

Another thought is that there are 58 countries that still have the death penalty in place (although many of them probably do not use it) so if countries are willing to allow punishment by death, then may be mercy by death should also be allowed.

I do agree with you Ajax when you said a few post back that you believed some people who were supporting assisted suicide would not be able to bring themselves to take that option should it be made legal..........

I also believe that some of those who are opposing assisted suicide will also have a change of heart should they find themselves in such a dire, painful and desperate situation, it's all very well caring for and helping sufferers - but you could never ever know what it's like to suffer such an illness.

Just remember - this thread was not started by me for people to consider curable illnesses - it's all about the terminally ill through either physical or mental suffering and degradation.
I also believe after hearing a good few people state" If I ever get like that - I don't want to continue living" that people should be able to sign a form allowing assisted suicide to be performed once their health has degraded to a point that they are unable to authorise it themselves and also in agreement with the next of kin.

Whilst there are preventative breakthroughs on illness's like dementia - there are no cures for the existing sufferers and the preventative breakthroughs are only possibles and not definites.


Sometimes it's not about voting just for or against something that you want or don't want........

Sometimes it's about voting for something that others want that will also give you the same option should you change your mind if you also become terminally ill - you don't however have to take up that option if you don't want it - but it would be there.





malebox
Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2014 3:21:32 PM

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Believe it should be legal.
justalilfun
Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2014 3:41:44 PM

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Location: Somewhere near Kingaroy, Australia
I watched a very good mate fade away as cancer took a once healthy man and ate away his body from the inside.
I will NEVER die from cancer. I may get it a terminal cancer, but it will not be what ends my life.

My view is that we would be sent to prison for inhumane treatment of an animal to let them suffer the indignities of terminal cancer and other diseases.
Yet we must keep a human alive until the bitter end. Why is this considered OK and not inhumane?

The cost of all the drugs that go into keeping a vegetative terminally ill human alive, long after their bright bubbly self has been replaced by the sad remnant shell the disease turns them into would be far greater than allowing them the dignity of ending their suffering.

Just my view, please don't hate me for it.
dpw
Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2014 4:07:23 PM

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justalilfun wrote:
I watched a very good mate fade away as cancer took a once healthy man and ate away his body from the inside.
I will NEVER die from cancer. I may get it a terminal cancer, but it will not be what ends my life.

My view is that we would be sent to prison for inhumane treatment of an animal to let them suffer the indignities of terminal cancer and other diseases.
Yet we must keep a human alive until the bitter end. Why is this considered OK and not inhumane?

The cost of all the drugs that go into keeping a vegetative terminally ill human alive, long after their bright bubbly self has been replaced by the sad remnant shell the disease turns them into would be far greater than allowing them the dignity of ending their suffering.

Just my view, please don't hate me for it.

I'm with you on this, but with the proviso that the person wants to hasten their end. I would.
My father died of lung cancer. He went from 220 pounds to just over 100, and was in great pain towards the end. He didn't want to die and I respect that. If he had, I would have understood.
kornslayer1
Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2014 5:46:14 PM

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justalilfun
Posted: Thursday, August 07, 2014 10:41:36 PM

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Location: Somewhere near Kingaroy, Australia
dpw wrote:

I'm with you on this, but with the proviso that the person wants to hasten their end. I would.
My father died of lung cancer. He went from 220 pounds to just over 100, and was in great pain towards the end. He didn't want to die and I respect that. If he had, I would have understood.


I agree it should be up to the sufferer to decide - that is where the dignity of it all comes into play.
I also think they should be assessed by more than the one doctor who would be happy to administer the fatal dose, just to make sure they are still of sound mind.
Guest
Posted: Friday, August 08, 2014 12:15:17 AM

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Ajax wrote:
I think the pro death people in this thread were under the impression that asssisted suicide is quick and painless 100% of the time. What i posted shows otherwise.


I am pretty sure the connotation of "pro death" is with the death penalty.

Intended or not, I'd suggest using it in the context of this thread is a tad insulting to all those who have expressed opinions contradicting yours.

From all the posts made here by people who are in favor of having the assisted suicide choice, I don't see them as "pro death people". It is a phrase that one can envision the theme from The Omen being played as the words are being read...

You've got a strong opinion on the topic - which is great - just suggest you don't categorize others who disagree with an incorrect-to-insulting description.


Guest
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:34:03 AM

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My dog has just been run over or if he was diagnosed with a malignant tumor, the Vet tells me that there is nothing they can do. The best thing for the dog is to humanely euthanize him, to stop the suffering. Why can't people who are terminally ill and in just as much pain, have the same option? Even though I can see the moral and ethic lines with this issue.
AriOli101
Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:15:37 AM

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I think I've already put my opinion up, possibly. I don't know.

I figure that, like in Holland, any legislation which makes euthanasia legal needs to be tight and as waterproof as possible. The decision of whether to die or not rests solely with the person who actually wants suicide.

Where do I stand on people who have mental disorders? The key term here seems to be "Terminal" and most mental disorders aren't terminal.

Depression, bi-polar disorder and schizophrenia caused me so much pain that, sometimes, I wanted to end it. I got better through treatment and support, but for the vast majority of terminal illnesses the only foreseeable future is a downward spiral. My father-in-law has Emphysema, final stages, but he wants to stick around as long as he can! Again, that's his decision. If he seriously considered it, unlikely but possible, then we would support him in any decision regarding HIS health and HIS life that HE wanted to make. Of course we don't want him to die, but it's HIS decision.

Sometimes a bit of objectivity is helpful, while still making sure that you never become distanced from the people behind the legislation.

Make love not horcruxes! >^_^<

Check out my stories, you'd be surprised what I can do :)
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 2:47:15 AM

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dpw wrote:

I'm with you on this, but with the proviso that the person wants to hasten their end. I would.
My father died of lung cancer. He went from 220 pounds to just over 100, and was in great pain towards the end. He didn't want to die and I respect that. If he had, I would have understood.


My grandmother died and there was no joy in it. But she said it is my life and my decision. Who wants to suffer?
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 7:52:06 PM

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Much like abortion, it is a personal decision.. One that we should be entitled to make for ourselves. I do however think it should be done in medically supervised manner.
mirrorkisses
Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 11:12:39 AM

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I am a bit split on this one. I honestly think people in extreme pain or illness have the right to check out but I fear it could be abused as a form of legitimized suicide for people who more aptly need to call a suicide prevention hotline. I am too aware of the ripple effect suicide causes and the pain it inflicts on family members and friends.
jeremiahbull
Posted: Thursday, August 28, 2014 11:33:15 PM

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LASARDaddy wrote:
It all boils down to one thing.

I AM IN CHARGE OF ME!

I'll decide what's best not some delusional god that I am not sure exists and almost all of the arguments against it stem from that. It's a perfect delusion but I support those that need Him. I never tear down their beliefs unless they attack mine then I've studied this and have a lot of thoughts. I've stood on the street and argued with ministers who stopped me to "Share God" and none have destroyed my arguments yet. I also change my mind when I'm presented with good ones so it's not about being hide-bound. Not someone else either if I have any choice. Just "Me!"

Some are very easy, fully ware, little pain. I live between a 3 and a 4 on the pain scale all day, every day, and I do not take drugs, I understand all about pain and how to deal with it. It's getting worse and having to deal with my wife's dementia is destroying me. Watching each little piece break off and go away and not be able to do anything is a killer and I don't know how much longer I can. I absolutely detest the thought of her being treated like a piece of meat, a burden that someone has to clean up after like an animal, but I will not decide for her. I will however do anything she asks. I just keep plugging along.

I found this link and I hope it's all right to post it. It's a different site but I think it's one of the most beautiful and scary things I've ever read. I can not read it without losing it. I do read it every couple of months then suffer for a day or 2 but it reminds me of the really important things in life, people, then friends and family, then the one you do not want to live without. She is that and I hang on trying to give her that like I always have. Well, for 44 years so far.

http://letmechoosemyownway.deviantart.com/art/Death-by-Sea-292553317

I will not allow my family to watch me become another person, one who doesn't know who they are and says nasty things to those trying to help. As long as I can still understand and agree I'll go on. My wife and a couple of our kids have talked about this and we both think like that. Not the kids yet. She won't be able to understand soon and that kills me. It rips holes in my soul thinking about her gone, but I would do what the man in that story did, for her, not me.

I would give her absolutely anything she wanted as long as I knew she could still think and understand, make up her own mind. If I had to I'll lie with her and go along if to makes it easier for her but probably not. She won't give up so I have to keep doing what she needs.

The problem stems from who gets to decide. Not you and hopefully not some greedy asshole after money. I don't have any of those that I know of. I've had my mother go the way my wife is and it is absolutely demeaning and de-humanizing.

I sat and cried with the vet holding my shoulders when my wife's boxer, "Missy", her running buddy when she was a marathoner, had to be put down. Boxers get rumors and the vet said she was suffering so why can't we decide that? She was a wonderful and understanding and didn't charge me for that. I've thanked her for being that kind and will again if I see her.

If it's easy, great, that's how it should be, a slipping away, so why doesn't God do that for us? Do not give me the argument about it being a dip-shit test. If he's "Omniscient" He should know what kind of person I am. He also should have known that the devil would happen. If he's "Omnipotent" then why a war? Just plunk your magic twanger god and he's gone.

Good luck with living your life as it winds down, live with all those soul destroying things or do what I do. Accept it all, try to understand and then do what causes the least pain. Do more good than harm, live a good life, then it doesn't matter if there's a God. You get accepted if there is and have led a life that's appreciated by those that knew you and it can't get better in either case.

Sprite is quite right.

It took me longer than her to understand. Getting old gives a different prospective on life but mostly I'm still what I was taught as a child. I had a good mommy.


Good fortune with yours.

My 2 cents



This is touching and reflects my own thinking and you have said it much better than I can.

Thank you and best wishes.
Guest
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 9:26:30 PM

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LittleLuce wrote:





I have to say that I'm a little astounded by some of the things that you have said Ajax considering that you stated awhile back that you are involved with heath care. I do feel that the more you see of something you dislike - the more you become immune to the severity of it. For that reason I don't think that health care workers are necessarily the best people to consult about a subject like assisted suicide. That's not to say that you're not entitled to your own opinion - of course you are and I'm glad you have posted here. You did state in your last post however........


" Lucy, posted of her experience at a nursing home. Those patients wouldn't even meet the protocol requirments for assisted suiicide in the U.S"

How do you know that? You wouldn't be able to know that! Apart from one or two states in the U.S, assisted suicide doesn't exist. It is these terminally and mentally ill patients that ARE asking for assisted suicide to be brought in.

We have as I stated in my starter thread, just had a debate on assisted suicide - it was a discussion in the house of commons with an even amount of 'fors' and 'againsts' being put forward for discussion. It has a long way to go yet before any possible vote could be put in place. But the bigger the population gets, the more terminally ill people there will be, the more stress there will be on a healthcare system ultimately leading to a poorer level of care for patients of all illness types.

There are very few countries that have brought in 'assisted suicide' and if Britain were to vote it in at sometime in the future then other countries around the world will start to consider it for sure, and if the American people were to see us bring it in - I know they will start asking for the same considerations to be made available to them as we are very close allies.

Another thought is that there are 58 countries that still have the death penalty in place (although many of them probably do not use it) so if countries are willing to allow punishment by death, then may be mercy by death should also be allowed.

I do agree with you Ajax when you said a few post back that you believed some people who were supporting assisted suicide would not be able to bring themselves to take that option should it be made legal..........

I also believe that some of those who are opposing assisted suicide will also have a change of heart should they find themselves in such a dire, painful and desperate situation, it's all very well caring for and helping sufferers - but you could never ever know what it's like to suffer such an illness.

Just remember - this thread was not started by me for people to consider curable illnesses - it's all about the terminally ill through either physical or mental suffering and degradation.
I also believe after hearing a good few people state" If I ever get like that - I don't want to continue living" that people should be able to sign a form allowing assisted suicide to be performed once their health has degraded to a point that they are unable to authorise it themselves and also in agreement with the next of kin.

Whilst there are preventative breakthroughs on illness's like dementia - there are no cures for the existing sufferers and the preventative breakthroughs are only possibles and not definites.


Sometimes it's not about voting just for or against something that you want or don't want........

Sometimes it's about voting for something that others want that will also give you the same option should you change your mind if you also become terminally ill - you don't however have to take up that option if you don't want it - but it would be there.
Astounded by what? Cuz i don't believe in solving a problem by eleminating the people who have the problem? Medical personel get desensitized by what they see but they don't lose compasion for thier patients. No one wants to see anyone suffer lucy. Unfortunately a small percentage of people in the world are dealth a shit hand and it's not fair but, it is life.
The patients you observed in the nursing home would most likely not be mentally competent to make the choice of assisted suicide here Lucy. So they would still be stuck in a nursing home.

When i said that some people of the people who posted in favor of assisted suicide (or choice) wouldn't go thru with it , I meant they probably just hopped on the popular bandwagon just to score points with other members. Some members just won't post because they're worried about upsetting other members lol.
Some members here were ready to throw in the towel when someone swiped some stories off lush and posted them on another site. They actually said that they were gonna quit writing because of that. I Can't trust the judgement of anyone so easily defeated over something so trivial to life/death choice decisions.

I also wonder if the pro choice/ suicide people who are so afraid of terminal disease take 'suffering' it into consideration before they light up that cigarette , and spend thier lives dining on shit food. Those people are already killing themselves. Just hasn't caught up with them yet. Now they want the medical profession to assist in finishing them off? Not what medicine is here for Lucy.

I'm actually kind of astounded that you are so obsessed with death tbh.

















Guest
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 9:32:24 PM

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dpw wrote:

I'm with you on this, but with the proviso that the person wants to hasten their end. I would.
My father died of lung cancer. He went from 220 pounds to just over 100, and was in great pain towards the end. He didn't want to die and I respect that. If he had, I would have understood.


sorry to here about your dad. But let me get this straight. You watched your dad die of cancer, yet you yourself still smoke? If you wind up with terminal cancer then you think doctors should be responsible for expediting your death to ease your suffering? am i getting that right?
Guest
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 9:43:01 PM

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chatnstroke wrote:


I am pretty sure the connotation of "pro death" is with the death penalty.

Intended or not, I'd suggest using it in the context of this thread is a tad insulting to all those who have expressed opinions contradicting yours.

From all the posts made here by people who are in favor of having the assisted suicide choice, I don't see them as "pro death people". It is a phrase that one can envision the theme from The Omen being played as the words are being read...

You've got a strong opinion on the topic - which is great - just suggest you don't categorize others who disagree with an incorrect-to-insulting description.


Pro choice in this case would = pro death. If you're not pro choice then you're not pro death. Because death woulnd't be an option.


It's no more offensive than someone telling me i need to get some air or myabe when i get older i'll see it different lol.


Guest
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 4:16:29 AM

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Maybe you should get some air...?
Guest
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:14:56 AM

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This is my life. If I want to end my own suffering then I should be allowed to. I didn't come into this world with a social security number and a badge on my ass. I came on my own with a wonderful mother. What is to anyone if I want to end my suffering? I am supposed to be in agony for some stupid laws? I never want to be a burden to my family. We had fun. Remember me that way and not some person you visit for 10 years in a coma on life support. Every breath and every move was mine and my responsibility so now someone else suddenly determines my end? I don't think so. My life. My soul. My spirit. I will determine where we go.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 11:59:28 AM

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Ajax wrote:
Pro choice in this case would = pro death. If you're not pro choice then you're not pro death. Because death woulnd't be an option.


It's no more offensive than someone telling me i need to get some air or myabe when i get older i'll see it different lol.




Getting some air - provided it is clean - is always a good thing to do. My point is that I believe "pro death" is not associated with the topic of this thread - it is associated with the death penalty.

I think the others (myself included) who favor the choice option are doing so with compassion. Of course you can disagree with them - and say whatever you want - my suggestion was simply in a debate such as this I find it is best to avoid phrases that instigate (i.e. "pro death").

It is just a suggestion - I do not charge for them :)
dpw
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 12:18:25 PM

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Ajax wrote:


sorry to here about your dad. But let me get this straight. You watched your dad die of cancer, yet you yourself still smoke? If you wind up with terminal cancer then you think doctors should be responsible for expediting your death to ease your suffering? am i getting that right?

I won't need any assistance if I get cancer, I'll be quite capable of doing it all on my own.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 1:15:04 PM

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totally and morally wrong, I am against it as it is murder. no no no no no no
Cyndy
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:42:11 PM

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Against it. Having walked through my first husband's cancer, and many other family members' sickness and deaths, I would still support fighting for life. I would be concerned that in a period of depression, I might be looking to end my troubles, and someone might offer to help and help me die. I would rather someone help me with my depression or sickness and help me live. My family actually likes me and wants to be around me, so I don't want to take me away from them. But, of course, everyone's situation is different, so it isn't for me to judge what someone else thinks or what situation they are in. I can only speak for myself.
silveranode
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 3:24:58 PM

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Some people need to be prevented.
Some people need to be assisted.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:15:17 PM

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chatnstroke wrote:


Getting some air - provided it is clean - is always a good thing to do. My point is that I believe "pro death" is not associated with the topic of this thread - it is associated with the death penalty.

I think the others (myself included) who favor the choice option are doing so with compassion. Of course you can disagree with them - and say whatever you want - my suggestion was simply in a debate such as this I find it is best to avoid phrases that instigate (i.e. "pro death").

It is just a suggestion - I do not charge for them :)
Don't you have something more pertinent to add?
Guest
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:16:36 PM

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dpw wrote:

I won't need any assistance if I get cancer, I'll be quite capable of doing it all on my own.


I'll take that as you being opposed to assited suicide then.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:17:22 PM

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Cindertoffee wrote:
Maybe you should get some air...?
Are you coming with?
dpw
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 10:18:25 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/15/2013
Posts: 4,460
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Ajax wrote:


I'll take that as you being opposed to assited suicide then.

No, you can take it that I, won't need assistance.
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