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A Mosque at ground zero. Options · View
MrNudiePants
Posted: Monday, August 9, 2010 5:40:08 AM

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Thanks for posting this, Lady X. I read through this story last night and was going to try and post it today. If I remembered. I think this issue is only going to get worse before it gets better.

Quote:
“What’s different is the heat, the volume, the level of hostility,” said Ihsan Bagby, associate professor of Islamic studies at the University of Kentucky. “It’s one thing to oppose a mosque because traffic might increase, but it’s different when you say these mosques are going to be nurturing terrorist bombers, that Islam is invading, that civilization is being undermined by Muslims.”



Quote:
Feeding the resistance is a growing cottage industry of authors and bloggers — some of them former Muslims — who are invited to speak at rallies, sell their books and testify in churches. Their message is that Islam is inherently violent and incompatible with America.

But they have not gone unanswered. In each community, interfaith groups led by Protestant ministers, Catholic priests, rabbis and clergy members of other faiths have defended the mosques. Often, they have been slower to organize than the mosque opponents, but their numbers have usually been larger.

Quote:


Larry Slusser, a Mormon and the secretary of the Interfaith Council of Murietta and Temecula, went to the protest to support the Muslim group. “I know them,” he said. “They’re good people. They have no ill intent. They’re good Americans. They are leaders in their professions.”

Of the protesters, he said, “they have fear because they don’t know them.”

Religious freedom is also at stake, Mr. Slusser said, adding, “They’re Americans, they deserve to have a place to worship just like everybody else.”




My favorite quote of the story:

Quote:
In Wisconsin, the conflict over the mosque was settled when the Town Executive Council voted unanimously to give the Islamic Society of Sheboygan a permit to use the former health food store as a prayer space.

Dr. Mansoor Mirza, the physician who owns the property, said he was trying to take the long view of the controversy.

“Every new group coming to this country — Jews, Catholics, Irish, Germans, Japanese — has gone through this,” Dr. Mirza said. “Now I think it’s our turn to pay the price, and eventually we will be coming out of this, too.”

Guest
Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 4:36:13 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,296
Lets see if we can add fuel to this fire:

1. The actual attacks were known about by the US government, and they kinda didn't read the memo clearly enough.

2. With the whole terrorist, religion, zealot arguments floating, dontcha think other countries have at one point or another seen the US as the terrorist, money hungry zealot who takes things from the world by any means necessary?


As for the center, there are other mosques in NYC and one was close to the area even before the towers were first built. I don't see how a center that would probably not even be noticed or even be in eyeshot of ground zero would or should have any affect.

The people and their governments concern should be on the those who are still living that tried to help after the attacks and get them health care which they are not getting, and recently got voted down. Concern for those men and women coming back from overseas to nothing but other health and mental issues since in the middle east, and the families who won't be getting their loved ones back home because of the "WAR."

Lights a match, fires up the cig and throws the match on the fuel.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:42:18 AM

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Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,781
Location: Cakeland, United States
eiotis123 wrote:
Lets see if we can add fuel to this fire:


Careful dude, you're making too much sense. Stating uncomfortable and easily proven facts makes a lot of people wish to strike first before they take the time and effort to question authority enough to actually do any real research beyond being spoon fed the official conspiracy theory and accept 'that' as fact.

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 11:26:33 AM

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Good article on this issue here in Newsweek - way too many sentient thoughts expressed though.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/james_standish/2010/08/the_great_ground_zero_mosque_hoax.html

This one being one of the most obvious, but yet...not really thought about by those who don't want a mosque close to ground zero -

Don't Give the Government Power to Ban our Houses of Worship

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 12:45:29 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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"The politicians and NGOs that have stoked the "ground zero" mosque hoax should be seen for what they are - security charlatans. Their intolerance weakens our society and our allies, while strengthening our enemies."

I found that line interesting. And with the debate herein I see that underlying fear of Muslim's has only been further enhanced by the media and our own government. The security charlatans have been able to a; enforce regulations on flying that has given TSA's the power to stop you for no reason and tell you it is a matter of US security, b; take away many of your rights as a US citizen through the Patriot Act, and c; instill fear in all citizens so that any future proposals/acts can be ratified almost without debate, all in the name of US security.

There is no money to be made if there is nothing to fear, and fear due to misinformation is what they count on. Yes, there are extremist Muslim's, but there are extremists in any religion, and ideology, all I am saying is don't feed into it and become an extremist yourself.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:21:20 PM

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When something can serve to divide the American people - you can bet that our politicians will exploit it and hammer away at us ... with it. And since 9/11/2001...it's been the GOP doing the hammering, fear-mongering, accusation bombardment and ridiculous scenario manufacturing. Why? Because there's money to be made with this technique!

Ground Zero Mosque Imam...actually helped the FBI with counterterrorism efforts beginning as far back as March 2003.

A longtime Muslim presence in New York City, Feisal Abdul Rauf has been a participant in the geopolitical debate about Islamic-Western relations well before 9/11. In 1997, he founded the American Society for Muslim Advancement to promote a more positive integration of Muslims into American society. His efforts and profile rose dramatically after the attacks when, in need of a calm voice to explain why greater Islam was not a force bent on terrorism, he became a go-to quote for journalists on the beat.

"We have to be very much more vocal about protecting human rights and planting the seeds of democratic regimes throughout the Arab and Muslim world," he told Katie Couric, then with NBC, during an interview in October 2001

Not that the imam has been without controversy. The most famous quote circulated by critics came when he talked to the Australian press in March 2004.

"The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians," he said. "But it was Christians in World War II who bombed innocent civilians in Dresden and dropped the nuclear bomb on Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

Then there is the interview he gave to CBS's "60 Minutes" shortly after the 9/11 attacks occurred. "I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened," he said by way of explaining the attacks. "But the United States' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened."

More often than not, he's pushed his audience to grapple with uncomfortable analogies in his efforts to contextualize Islamic radicalism, such as when he argued that the Ku Klux Klan was, likewise, drawn from a form of extreme religiosity.

Those statements, in the end, were not enough to convince the Bush administration that he was a militant. Feisal Abdul Rauf was dispatched on speaking tours by the past State Department on multiple occasions to help promote tolerance and religious diversity in the Arab and Muslim world. In 2007, he went to Morocco, the UAE, Qatar and Egypt on such missions, a State Department official confirmed to the Huffington Post.

In February 2006, meanwhile, he took part in a U.S.-Islamic World Forum in Doha, Qatar with Undersecretary of State Karen Hughes, a close adviser to President Bush. Months later, Feisal Abdul Rauf wrote favorably about his meeting with Hughes, noting that he wanted to further the discussion with other members of the administration.

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
Jacknife
Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 3:00:44 AM

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Sorry, bit late to this party. I see no real problem with such a centre. Personally I think the true tragedy is that the most powerful country in the world hasn't managed to build something on the site after almost 10 years.

If I were american I would be annoyed that a community can actually try and orgainse something rather than sit around arguing about it
LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:06:54 AM

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Jacknife wrote:
Sorry, bit late to this party. I see no real problem with such a centre. Personally I think the true tragedy is that the most powerful country in the world hasn't managed to build something on the site after almost 10 years.


Well, if it were a measure of might and ability, something could have been built in a year, Jacknife, but given the sensitivity of what amounts to a memorial site, nobody was, or should have been, in a hurry to do anything. What's the rush? Either way, there is a combination of buildings and memorial markers being constructed there, it was started a while back actually.

As far as this mosque goes, you might have missed it at the beginning of this thread, or in the news, but what's being discussed isn't even on the site of 9/11, it's just nearby to it.


Jacknife wrote:

If I were american I would be annoyed that a community can actually try and orgainse something rather than sit around arguing about it


As an American, I'm annoyed that the group in charge has successfully organized something, but is meeting so much resistance from others. Remember, the organizers aren't the ones sitting around arguing here, it's the peanut gallery, basically.

I think it was WMM that brought up the subject that if those who oppose this successfully bully the organizers into not building their mosque, then who is to say that it will always be those shadowy, evil-doing Muslims that are discriminated against? Next time, twenty years and some unfortunate turn of events later, it might be YOUR faith getting smeared through ignorance and fear.

SweetPenny
Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 12:33:37 PM

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I am a New Yorker and I know people who perished on 9/11. Personally, I wouldn't want to see a mosque at Ground Zero. However, I feel very strongly that it is not the government's place to get involved.
Jacknife
Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 1:55:05 PM

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Location: United Kingdom
LadyX wrote:


As far as this mosque goes, you might have missed it at the beginning of this thread, or in the news, but what's being discussed isn't even on the site of 9/11, it's just nearby to it.


I haven't missed anything, it is two blocks away from the site which is another reason I also can't understand the rights reaction to this. I also know there is already an Islamic centre 4 Blocks away from the site now, yet no one complains about it.

LadyX wrote:
As an American, I'm annoyed that the group in charge has successfully organized something, but is meeting so much resistance from others. Remember, the organizers aren't the ones sitting around arguing here, it's the peanut gallery, basically.

I think it was WMM that brought up the subject that if those who oppose this successfully bully the organizers into not building their mosque, then who is to say that it will always be those shadowy, evil-doing Muslims that are discriminated against? Next time, twenty years and some unfortunate turn of events later, it might be YOUR faith getting smeared through ignorance and fear.



I hear that Republicans are going to bash Obama on this issue everywhere in November. Is this truly going to work on the populace? I know the Fox news watching crowd will lap it up but they are going to vote republican anyway. Is the average man in the street going to be truly influenced by this issue?

Also isn't there some rather important document in America. The Con......Consti......something or other that has these little things written down on it and doesn't the first one protect any religion from being interfered with by the government? For a party that supposedly loves it and the Founding Fathers how can you argue against it in support of trying to interfere with a religious group?
MrNudiePants
Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 2:26:24 PM

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Jacknife wrote:

I hear that Republicans are going to bash Obama on this issue everywhere in November. Is this truly going to work on the populace? I know the Fox news watching crowd will lap it up but they are going to vote republican anyway. Is the average man in the street going to be truly influenced by this issue?

Also isn't there some rather important document in America. The Con......Consti......something or other that has these little things written down on it and doesn't the first one protect any religion from being interfered with by the government? For a party that supposedly loves it and the Founding Fathers how can you argue against it in support of trying to interfere with a religious group?


The sad truth is that the current trend in American politics shows that whichever group can hurl slurs loudest, usually wins any contest. Both of our major political parties are pretty much morally bankrupt, preferring to ride the money train, rather than remain true to values and ethics, and starve. Democrats (of which Obama is one) are already going to have a tough row to hoe, inasmuch as Obama ran on the premise that Bush spent money like a drunken sailor on leave while his administration would correct things. As it turns out, when Obama took office, the only difference was that he spent money like a drunken sailor who had recently been promoted.

Our First Amendment has been taken to mean a lot of things lately, but the totality of the language (as far as protecting religion goes) only goes as far as saying, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." Originally, the framers of this document, meant that we should never have a State-sponsored religion (like there is a Church of England).
LadyX
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 9:40:46 AM

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Here's some footage from yesterday's anti-mosque rally in NYC. Give this a watch, then try saying with a straight face that this isn't in fact an anti-Muslim bigot-fest disguised as an opposition rally to the (2 blocks and around the corner from) 'ground zero' mosque.



So many lies about the guy in charge being terror-friendly, despite his efforts toward peace being so well-known that President Bush himself hired him as an advisor for Middle East peace. So much ignorant attitude toward a faith that has discredited terrorism, no matter how often I hear that they never have.

I've seen enough to be convinced that the location of this mosque and all the 'hallowed ground/sacred memorial' talk is just cover for a whole lot of hatred toward one religion.

Watch in this video where a guy that makes the mistake of looking dark-skinned and maybe Muslim walks through and gets verbally attacked by a bunch of white people. He points out that they have no idea what his opinion is, and then they start hurling hate speech about Islam, and somebody shouts that "he must have voted for Obama."

Sometimes it's really embarrassing to realize I'm part of the same country, the USA, as these people. What am I supposed to have pride in, again? What a sad, unfunny joke.
scarletblue
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 10:31:03 AM

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12 MIN LONG BUT WORTH A WATCH ..

Rembacher
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 10:57:57 AM

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Posts: 1,107
scarletblue wrote:


12 MIN LONG BUT WORTH A WATCH ..


Impressive rant. I have to admit, as an outsider I do see a lot of similarities between the current treatment of Muslims in the US and the treatment of communists led by senator Joseph McCarthy in the 50s.

This article is a prime example of what I see from the outside. Liz Cheney says terrorists have no rights

Quote:
You would think, however, that when Cheney and Kristol launched their execrable "Keep America Safe" Web ad, they would have been very, very careful with their words. In the ad they accuse seven Justice Department lawyers and two colleagues—all of whom had represented Guantanamo detainees—of being members of the Department of Jihad. A screen shot of Osama Bin Laden and a creepy voice-over asks of these attorneys, "Whose values do they share?" Thanks to people like Kristol and Cheney, people take accusations of this sort very seriously. The Justice Department reports being swamped with panicked phone calls since the ad started running this week. In 2010, calling someone a Bin Laden-loving jihadist isn't just meaningless partisan hackery.
Magical_felix
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 11:48:44 AM

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LadyX wrote:

Sometimes it's really embarrassing to realize I'm part of the same country, the USA, as these people. What am I supposed to have pride in, again? What a sad, unfunny joke.


I think that this group of people are to the USA what terrorists are to the Muslim community. Just an embarrassment that shouldn't be used to judge the rest. I too used to get annoyed by what Americans say and do but now I try and not let it upset me as much as it used to.

WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 1:09:22 PM

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Location: Cakeland, United States
FOX News Corporations 2nd largest shareholder has donated money to the Imam's causes for many years.

Prince Al-Waleed owns an estimated $2.5-billion-worth of News Corp.

Majority shareholder Rupert Murdoch recently took a stake in the prince's Middle East-based media conglomerate, Rotana Group.

Murdoch and Prince Al-Waleed are reportedly working on launching an Arabic news network that will compete with existing pan-Arabic networks Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya.


Yowsers, Rupert Murdoch is a terrorist sympathizer?!!? It's all about the money...as always.

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
LadyX
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 1:36:16 PM

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scarletblue wrote:


12 MIN LONG BUT WORTH A WATCH ..


Applause that was fabulous.

Love this bit about the 'mosque' that's been in operation near the actual 'ground zero' since 1970. Funny, you never hear about that one.

Quote:

But back to Downtown. Does the name "Masjid-Manhattan" mean anything to you? Let me take you, in conclusion, to 20 Warren Street. Not much to look at. Not from across the street Not from up close. That open door is the only thing that distinguishes it from the rest of the grill-fronts of the neighborhood.
That, and the yellow sign there. "Entrance To Islamic Center."

It's in the basement. It is a Muslim house of worship. Masjid-Manhattan. It lost its lease in a larger building down the street, two years ago. The new facility is so small that only about 20 percent of worshipers can use it, at a time. But "Masjid-Manhattan" opened in early 1970. Four blocks away, the World Trade Center opened, in December 1970.

The actual place that is the real-life equivalent of the paranoid dream contained in the phrase "Ground Zero Mosque," has been up and running, since before there was a World Trade Center, and for nine years since there has been a World Trade Center.

Running, without controversy, without incident, without terrorism, without protest. Because this is America, dammit.

And in America, when somebody comes for your neighbor, or his bible, or his torah, or his Atheists' Manifesto, or his Koran, you and I do what our fathers did, and our grandmothers did, and our founders did you and speak up.



But then again, that one's not right on the site like this one....oh wait a minute: it's blocks away from the nearest edge of the WTC, too. My bad.

Well done, Olbermann.

A call to arms, or at least to common sense and basic tolerance for anyone who sees the world slightly different from you- recognize and call bigotry and hate by it's real name instead of hiding behind the dead from past tragedies.
Jacknife
Posted: Thursday, August 26, 2010 4:17:46 PM

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If I may go on a small Tangent

This video just scared the crap out of me. If there are significant numbers of people who think like this I am genuienly at a loss on how to deal with the general hate and stupidity that goes on in some peoples head

Rembacher
Posted: Thursday, August 26, 2010 4:36:40 PM

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Jacknife wrote:
If I may go on a small Tangent

This video just scared the crap out of me. If there are significant numbers of people who think like this I am genuienly at a loss on how to deal with the general hate and stupidity that goes on in some peoples head



Yeah, guys like that creep me out. For the good of the public, they should put him in a nice hotel with white padded walls.
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, August 26, 2010 5:49:10 PM

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Jebru wrote:
Jacknife wrote:
If I may go on a small Tangent

This video just scared the crap out of me. If there are significant numbers of people who think like this I am genuienly at a loss on how to deal with the general hate and stupidity that goes on in some peoples head.


Yeah, guys like that creep me out. For the good of the public, they should put him in a nice hotel with white padded walls.


And yes, Jacknife, there are plenty of hateful dumbass bigots that think the way this guy does. And you're right, its not sad, it's not maddening, it's just scary. There's a reason why I don't like to stop in small towns if I'm driving long distance-I don't feel as safe as I do in cities. Too much intolerance and 'ideas' they have about 'sinful' culture, etc., and I'm not nearly white enough to feel safe sometimes.

I really don't get this logic that others seem so certain about. How can we invade Muslim countries, bomb targets in other Muslim countries, threaten yet more Muslim countries, and somehow believe that doing those things make us SAFER?

Are we really that fucking dumb, to not know that doing those things is what leads to crazy people wanting to do us harm? They don't 'hate our freedom', they hate our war on Islam, and if Mr. White-Trash Koran Burner isn't enough evidence of that, consider our military activity over the past 10 years, and how eager we were to get it going, and how slow we are to get out of any of them. We can say all we want that we aren't at war with Islam, but it looks a lot like that exactly to anyone watching.

Now to loop it back to the Islamic Center in New York- and I refuse to say 'ground zero' or 'mosque' when that's not where or what it is, there's a group who, in the face of all of this hostility toward their faith, wants to set up a community center to reach out beyond their faith to others, and try to build bridges. And look what they get for it. Islamophobes hiding behind the dead of 9-11 to mask their own bigotry. I'm so embarrassed sometimes to be part of the same country as such a fiasco, and hope they dig in and don't give up. It's a matter of principle. If they cave, then nobody's faith- including yours Hater McBookburner- is safe in the future. First Amendment rights mean nothing if your fellow man will just come after you on his own. Who needs the law?

You want to know why there are some Muslims that won't just come out and condemn extremist groups at the top of their lungs? Because there is a superpower that's currently firebombing a few Muslim countries. We all have our reasons for what we do, but I can forgive their hesitance to cheer on the side of those that sustain this kind of activity for a decade against those of fellow faith. Innocent people die in wars, so why are we having those wars again (cue the talking points now).

The opponents- apparently 70 percent of the US is against this Islamic Center- try to smear the leader of this group as much as possible, when the worst real thing they can really pin on him is that he once said that the US's actions helped cause 911- which is absolutely true. I'm not saying that there aren't good reasons for the things the US does, or that Al Qaeda's not batshit crazy (of course they are), but if you look at anything they've ever said, they make clear why they wish us dead, but you can't mention that without right-wingers going nuts on you, you can only repeat that they 'hate freedom'. It's really as if you have to have slavish reverence toward the dead without acknowledging any wrongdoing that the US might have done, or else you're 'destroying the country' with your views. And that's what this "Muslim Extremist" is guilty of.

So, yes, let's run them out of town, burn their holy books, and smear a billion people of faith as crazy death-hungry terrorists. Awesome.







Dancing_Doll
Posted: Thursday, August 26, 2010 6:22:42 PM

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LadyX wrote:

The opponents- apparently 70 percent of the US is against this Islamic Center- try to smear the leader of this group as much as possible, when the worst real thing they can really pin on him is that he once said that the US's actions helped cause 911- which is absolutely true. I'm not saying that there aren't good reasons for the things the US does, or that Al Qaeda's not batshit crazy (of course they are), but if you look at anything they've ever said, they make clear why they wish us dead, but you can't mention that without right-wingers going nuts on you, you can only repeat that they 'hate freedom'. It's really as if you have to have slavish reverence toward the dead without acknowledging any wrongdoing that the US might have done, or else you're 'destroying the country' with your views. And that's what this "Muslim Extremist" is guilty of.

So, yes, let's run them out of town, burn their holy books, and smear a billion people of faith as crazy death-hungry terrorists. Awesome.


Great post LadyX! I also get extremely frustrated watching news clips of random people looking confused into the camera lens and saying things like "I don't know why they hate us"... and then the requisite "they hate freedom" banner-waving to explain why 911 happened. The reasons are extremely clear to anyone that extends their research beyond CNN (and of course, Fox-News). In fact, years ago, when they found one of those early "Bin Laden" tapes, they translated it as it was going straight to news broadcast, and he explained the core justifications for it (I say his justifications by the way, not that the events that transpired were justified in any way). Of course that was the first broadcast that probably should never have been run. The subsequent ones were heavily edited because it's preferable to keep people in a state of terror by simplifying it all down. "They hate us because of our freedom". It's easy to remember, and sounds good when trying to rally people up to join the military and burn Qurans. People are willing to die for something abstract like "freedom", not because of controversial political alignments and unconditional support in a heated foreign conflict. When you get involved, you often set yourself up for terrorist attacks... the same as the allies to the US have experienced since the war in Afghanistan and Iraq first began.

Since then you have a whole lot of moderate people starting to consider more radical thinking when their families are killed, homes are bombed, and you get the newsfeeds from the US about "Burn a Quran Day"... Is it really such a question about "why they hate us"?

At this point, there's obvious hatred on both sides... but instead of attempting to diffuse the situation nearly a decade later, it seems that the world is still intent on pitting one side against the other, even within the same country. There is no question that terrorists and extremists are still a reality... but I think the ability to differentiate an entire population of people and a religion from the minority extremist bad guys is something that needs to happen sooner than later. Otherwise it just breeds an entire new generation of people that are angry at being blamed or condemned for something they had no part of. It's this kind of thinking that lends easily to the idea of targeting civilians with terrorist tactics... If we can't differentiate a muslim from a terrorist, then why should we be surprised when they don't differentiate a military target from a civilian one when it comes to terrorist attacks.


WellMadeMale
Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:01:45 AM

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Nearly a decade later, ahem...the United States is almost alone as the sole entity still engaged in warring conflict inside of Afghanistan and Iraq. Most all of the rest of the very small contingent countries which were basically cajoled and threatened into joining the 'Coalition of the Willing' back in 2002 have long since figured out...

"This is fucking stupid, and I'm outta here. Go ahead and blackmail us and cut off the pittance of aid you threatened to with hold from us, America!"

People of the Terry Allen mindset do not number all that highly in America. It is a very small percentage, Jacknife.

These brainwashed on power (since they think they have a select following of money donating/tithing slaves - and they do) war mongers simply grab the headlines during an otherwise slow news cycle. As the NYTimes article indicates: He is truly obscure. I've never heard of the cretin, but he's not the first nor will he be the last Religio-Rabble-Rousing fire and brimstone tossing demonizer.

He has a small flock, the rest of the more sensible Americans don't even know whom he is, and since he doesn't have his finger on the launch codes/button of any nukes...ignore him and he'll fade back to his cockroach-like dark crack in the flooring.



Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
Rembacher
Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 12:20:30 PM

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WMM while Terry Jones may be a fringe character, and not a representative of the US as a whole, the fact that he got national/international coverage and face time from msnbc and the New York times gives him more legitimacy. At most a pastor of a 50 member church who plans to burn the Koran should be a local crackpot story in the local paper. But it's controversial, so the US media is running with it, and it seems, far more so than it runs the opposition to this idea.

Perception is reality. Those of us outside the US only see the US public through the media. And just like people in the US hear more about the few Muslims supporting terror, than the many who condemn it; those of us outside the US see far more coverage from both US media and our own media, of the bigoted loud mouths than those who condemn them. Also if I look at the related articles on your link, I find this Tennessee Official Says Islam May Be a ‘Cult’ Tennessee’s lieutenant governor, Ron Ramsey, made a comment that seems to indicate he doesn't believe Islam is a real religion, or that its followers should be given the rights to freedom of worship. Terry Jones is a crackpot, but this man is the second in command in the state of Tennessee, and seems to have similar views. To the outsider, if a man with bigoted thoughts like this can be in public office, then his constituents must not see his behaviour as the closeminded hatred it is or they'd have him removed from office.

And then there is journalism like this, also in one of the related stories: Muslim Community Center in Lower Manhattan (Park51)
Quote:
The organizers of the project are Daisy Khan; her husband Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the imam of a mosque in the financial district; and Sharif el-Gamal, a young real-estate investor born in New York. Their first public presentation of the project — a voluntary appearance at a meeting of Community Board 1, the largely advisory body that represents the neighborhood in Lower Manhattan — was on May 5, 2010, just after an American Muslim, Faisal Shahzad, was arrested for planting a car bomb in Times Square.

It's a subtle connection by the writer, linking the attempted terrorist act to the people who are opening the centre. Aside from sharing a religion common to many within New York, let alone the US, there is no connection between these two acts, so no need to link them in a single article, nevermind the same paragraph. It would be like mentioning the cult from Detroit that got busted for its plans to overthrow the government, in the same paragraph as an explanation of the leaders of a baptist church unveiling that day. It just doesn't make sense.

Until the media stops connecting muslims to terrorism, and giving a forum for people with anti-islamic views, the perception is going to persist that the US is an anti-islamic, if not completely racist, nation.

Edit: After a brief discussion with the thread moderator LadyX, I need to make clear that I do not mean to call the entire country or everyone in it racist. Only that in general the view through the media gives the impression of a culture that makes life difficult for minorities, specifically those of Islamic faith.
LadyX
Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:57:22 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
It may be a small group that thinks the way that crackpot does, but it's a large group that truly has an issue with an Islamic center being built on this "sacred, hallowed ground."

Speaking of that, here's a few photos of the what else can currently be found within the same distance to "ground zero" as this proposed Islamic center:











I mean, seriously people- how could they dare to build a community outreach and worship center here? And disrespect the singing of angels and reverent atmosphere amongst fast food, strip clubs, worthless trinket vendors, donut shops, and horse race betting parlors?

How dare they!

Guest
Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:33:06 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,296
I think they probably don't have a problem with it because it's American born free enterprise. dontknow Don't know, don't care. hello1
Trimble
Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 4:33:32 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 5/23/2009
Posts: 17
Location: Tucson
LadyX wrote:
It may be a small group that thinks the way that crackpot does, but it's a large group that truly has an issue with an Islamic center being built on this "sacred, hallowed ground."

Speaking of that, here's a few photos of the what else can currently be found within the same distance to "ground zero" as this proposed Islamic center:

I mean, seriously people- how could they dare to build a community outreach and worship center here? And disrespect the singing of angels and reverent atmosphere amongst fast food, strip clubs, worthless trinket vendors, donut shops, and horse race betting parlors?

How dare they!



that's a nice, big whole blown through the Sarah Palin "sacred ground" argument, Lady. Where did you find the pics?

The argument I hear often is that other countries wouldn't allow a Christian church to be built under similar circumstances, but to me, this is exactly the point. This is America, where *hopefully* fear mongering and bigotry don't rule the day, but between this needless fight, and the fight over SB 1070 here in AZ, you start to wonder.

The right-leaning factions say they "want to take our country back", but they leave off the rest of the sentence, which clearly is "...about sixty years."
LadyX
Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 4:37:55 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
Trimble wrote:

The right-leaning factions say they "want to take our country back", but they leave off the rest of the sentence, which clearly is "...about sixty years."


evil4

WellMadeMale
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 1:08:07 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,781
Location: Cakeland, United States
Jebru wrote:
WMM while Terry Jones may be a fringe character, and not a representative of the US as a whole, the fact that he got national/international coverage and face time from msnbc and the New York times gives him more legitimacy. [/color]


Joe the farking Plumber is more well known (thanks to MSNBC/FAUX/CNN) than what's his name the ftard reverand. But Joe is not any more of an actual working plumber than that guy is a leading evangelist either and Joe never represented any large % of the conservative movement in America either.

In this media driven world, everyone gets 15 minutes.

They are lost in the chatter almost immediately.

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
Guest
Posted: Monday, September 6, 2010 6:06:33 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,296
They are lost in the chatter almost immediately.[/quote]

Exactly.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, September 11, 2010 1:46:52 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,296

I am appalled that so many of my friends are against the mosque near Ground Zero. We should allow it in order to promote tolerance.



I propose that a gay nightclub be opened next door to the mosque to promote tolerance in the mosque. We could call it "The Turban Cowboy" or "You Mecca Me Hot".



Next door could be a butcher shop that specializes in pork and across the street a very daring lingerie store called "Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret”.

Just sayin.
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