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Don't Ask, Don't Tell Options · View
LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 1:26:41 PM

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So for all those that live in other countries or are unaware, the US military has a policy that allows homosexuals to serve, so long as they don't reveal it to anyone, talk about homosexuality either regarding themselves or anyone else, or of course, engage in any homosexuality or lifestyle. In return, the military won't ask them whether or not they are homosexual. But, if they reveal it, then they can and will be discharged. And supposedly, they can't initiate an investigation against a suspected homosexual, but if somebody who knows who that person really is out of uniform notifies the military, and if the investigation reveals that they're gay, they get discharged.

Wierdly, though- during times of war, they won't let anyone quit, and according to reports, they aren't eager to be discharging people, for being gay or any other reason. So, on one hand I've heard reasoning that men don't need the distraction of a 'faggot' in the foxhole with them when their lives are on the line, but then, that's the only time the government seems to think it's okay for gays to be in the military- at least according to reports that I've read.

The whole policy seems un-American- whatever it means to be "American". In the military, you can be forced to suppress who you really are for the sake of a career, then have it taken away from you when if/when somebody who knows this detail about your life outs you to your superiors. And with more and more of the 'brass' saying it's time to repeal it, the arguments against it seem really outdated and desperate for a reality that doesn't exist anymore.

If they decide that gays just aren't worthy of service in the military, then that's one thing, but unless they're prepared to say that, they should repeal this policy- which is up for a vote this week, and expected to fail.

One could say, "well, they won't refuse gays because they need them for their numbers", but this policy far predates any time when the military was hurting for personnel.

I wonder if there was a similar debate when women were first considered for military service. Only now, it doesn't seem as significant of a change as that was. After all, gays are already there, defending this country and serving just like everyone else. They are men, and they are women, and they are no different than (supposedly) straight people who serve next to them.

Is there any good reason to keep the "don't ask, don't tell" policy? What do you think the government should do, if your answer is not "yes, repeal it now, and treat gays fairly, just like any other career they could choose"?

Jacknife
Posted: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 1:35:53 PM

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Location: United Kingdom
As I understand it, it is as usual the republicans who are blocking this repeal. I've heard them say that their worst nightmare is the destruction of america.

No No. Their worst nightmare is america being saved by someone who is gay.

It's a moronic rule, what can you say!!!
Magical_felix
Posted: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:29:35 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
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Location: California
I think that with most of those army chicks the policy should be "don't tell, we know."


Seriously though it's about time the human race just got over their whole hatred of gay people. They're not hurting anyone, just move along.



LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 2:37:16 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:
I think that with most of those army chicks the policy should be "don't tell, we know."


so wrong- but funny, Jack.
laughing6
SadBi-Virgin
Posted: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 3:31:13 PM

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Location: nunya, United States
oh i don't know i went to a LBGT campus org. meeting and had one ROTC chick who basically said that atleast half of her platoon she knew was gay. But honestly if gay soliders want it to be repealed they should all on the same day go to their superiors and tell them they are gay and see how fast it gets repealed when 1/4 of the armed serivices get discharged in one day.
DamonX
Posted: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 9:43:39 PM

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Joined: 1/25/2009
Posts: 795
Come on guys....try and see it from the republicans' point of view. If gays start winning war medals, then what will our children think? With such role models, they will start converting to "gayness" and ruin the wholesomeness of the ideal American family!

And, they obviously can't fight! How can we win the war on terror with an army of dildo-toting, sex crazed wiener lovers? Those overseas military bases will turn into huge orgies, closely resembling a shower scene in "Oz." And soon they'll be changing the name of "Fort Bragg" into Fort....well...you know. Do we really want the "Pansy Division" defending our freedom?

Not to mention that assless chaps are simply murder in the desert....


happy8

Oh, and for those that don't understand sarcasm....that was fucking sarcasm!
Guest
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:28:18 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 671,889
That's the greatness of the USA, even gay people want to join in the army and defend their country. In Spain not even heterosexual people want to join, authorities have a hell of a time hiring new soldiers, they have to hire people from South America .
SadBi-Virgin
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:24:05 PM

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Unfortunately it is only the gay community that wants to serve anymore.
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:32:26 PM

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SadBi-Virgin wrote:
Unfortunately it is only the gay community that wants to serve anymore.


I know there are plenty of homosexuals signing up, but I doubt they are actually the majority. It mainly just sucks that 100% of the gays that are in the military have to hide it or else lose their career there.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:37:40 PM

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They can shoot a bullet and stop one just as easily why the fuck does it matter who the hell they sleep with?
MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:56:08 PM

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I've never understood the whole prohibition against gays in the military. It's sort of an open secret that there are plenty of gays in the military. Hell, the Village People wrote a song about it decades ago. I'm sure it has to do with heterosexual male insecurities and fears coming to the fore. Why is it that guys that are insecure in their own manhood always have to assume that exposure to gays will somehow make them gay as well, as if "gay" is a disease that's contagious?
Guest
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:58:32 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 671,889
Magical_felix wrote:
Seriously though it's about time the human race just got over their whole hatred of gay people. They're not hurting anyone, just move along.


YES!!! notworthy

We need to just get over our own insecurities and stop worrying about everyone else.
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 3:04:20 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart
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Posts: 4,813
MrNudiePants wrote:
I've never understood the whole prohibition against gays in the military. It's sort of an open secret that there are plenty of gays in the military. Hell, the Village People wrote a song about it decades ago. I'm sure it has to do with heterosexual male insecurities and fears coming to the fore. Why is it that guys that are insecure in their own manhood always have to assume that exposure to gays will somehow make them gay as well, as if "gay" is a disease that's contagious?


Macho homophobe bigotry. Like every other kind of bigotry, it dies hard.
Concretus
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:10:15 PM

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If there is reason for the military to think gay ppl should not serve, then they should use that not to hire gay ppl. But as I understand it is ok for gays to join the military as long as they hide it
What's the point, if the military doesn't think they fit, they're already hired????

Doesn't make any sense to me
MrNudiePants
Posted: Friday, September 24, 2010 6:41:07 AM

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SadBi-Virgin
Posted: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:14:32 PM

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Location: nunya, United States
I really do think that all gay service members should just come out all at once. The policy would be dismissed within a week if all gay service members came out.
gimmesumpussy
Posted: Saturday, October 23, 2010 11:49:22 PM

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Location: Texas, United States
its the same way i see about 18-20 year olds in the military who can't get a beer: If you will go and willingly give your life for your country then it should not matter if you ike tits or dicks. And if someone who is barley a man can legally kill the enemies of the state than god dammit he should be able to get some motherfucking booze !
Guest
Posted: Sunday, October 24, 2010 7:32:32 AM

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MrNudiePants wrote:



very well put. that really drives the point home nudie..
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 8:50:27 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,295
Location: California
SadBi-Virgin wrote:
I really do think that all gay service members should just come out all at once. The policy would be dismissed within a week if all gay service members came out.


That would certainly make some headlines. Probably impossible to find out but it would be interesting to see exactly what percentage of the military is gay. I think anything over 5% would be a strong enough number to get some high ups in the military to reconsider the policies dealing with gays. Extremely hard to organize something like this but a good idea.



SadBi-Virgin
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 5:36:08 PM

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Location: nunya, United States
Magical_felix wrote:
SadBi-Virgin wrote:
I really do think that all gay service members should just come out all at once. The policy would be dismissed within a week if all gay service members came out.


That would certainly make some headlines. Probably impossible to find out but it would be interesting to see exactly what percentage of the military is gay. I think anything over 5% would be a strong enough number to get some high ups in the military to reconsider the policies dealing with gays. Extremely hard to organize something like this but a good idea.

I think it would be atleast 15% of the military 10 percent at the lowest.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 8:29:21 PM

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I've never been in the military, and it's unlikely, though not impossible, that I will ever be. That being said, I do have my own opinion about DA/DT.

I am in support of it, and before you all tear me to shreds as a homophobe, allow me to explain my reasoning. I personally have zero problem with homosexuality - that being said, I don't want to see two men kissing each other, or showing physical intimacy beyond a hug or holding hands. I'm not going to lie, it makes me uncomfortable. That doesn't mean I hate gays. Many people are more tolerant of it than I am, but then again, many are much less tolerant.

Now, where I'm going with this is that you have a nation of 300 million people. The entire population provides members of the military - black, white, tall, short, black hair, brown hair, blue eyes, brown eyes, what have you. These people come from most every walk of life and every state. Some states or parts of states are notoriously resistant to change, and many parts of this country are unfortunately still very bigoted and homophobic. They don't like gay people at all. You throw some of these guys into close proximity with someone who is actually gay, and who knows what could happen?

I think, for the sake of keeping order, the best thing is to keep the DA/DT policy in effect - I just don't think our military is ready to become a sexually mixed fighting force. And remember, these guys signed up knowing that this was the way things were going to be - they fully understood that they were to "stay in the closet," for lack of a better term. When you're signing up for the military, you're not just signing up for an ordinary job. You're signing up to take orders, and, in some way defend our country and the lives of the people in it. You're signing up to do what you're told until your term is done. You don't get a choice to do what you really want to do - you do what you're told. Sure, there may be some wiggle room, but the penalties for disobeying legitimate orders, etc. are very harsh. These guys KNEW that when they signed up, they would be booted if their superiors found out about their sexual preferences.

I want the military that is defending me and my friends and family to be a cohesive, well trained, and focused fighting force. I just don't think that the military is ready to accept gays, especially when the majority of it is on a wartime footing, and tensions are running high. It's not a question of 'gay hating,' politicians are some of the most mutable people out there - they do what they have to to keep their asses in office.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 11:39:37 PM

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I understand the point of the confusion that may occur in some soldiers when they are faced with someone who is gay and the disorder that it may bring. However:

1. Some of those enlisting do not find themselves or are not fully aware of their sexuality until after they are in. So, no, they did not know what they were getting into, they just knew that it might be a viable option for college tuition, or it's just what the family did. These guys, and gals must under the current rule keep themselves "in the closet" until after they get out of the armed forces, and then continue to stay in the closet because of the bigoted sentiment against them from the communities that the non-gay soldiers came from in the first place. It is a matter of pride and prejudice.

2. As for the order being kept, this is just another little microcosm where people just don't want to accept others for who they are, and that needs to stop. The only defending that is going on at the moment is the defense of the government assertion that it has the right to tell all other nations how to do their business, and the control of future financial assets.

As a nation we need to progress, and don't ask don't tell is just a small example of how much further we need to go.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 6:05:05 AM

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eiotis123 wrote:
I understand the point of the confusion that may occur in some soldiers when they are faced with someone who is gay and the disorder that it may bring. However:

1. Some of those enlisting do not find themselves or are not fully aware of their sexuality until after they are in. So, no, they did not know what they were getting into, they just knew that it might be a viable option for college tuition, or it's just what the family did. These guys, and gals must under the current rule keep themselves "in the closet" until after they get out of the armed forces, and then continue to stay in the closet because of the bigoted sentiment against them from the communities that the non-gay soldiers came from in the first place. It is a matter of pride and prejudice.

2. As for the order being kept, this is just another little microcosm where people just don't want to accept others for who they are, and that needs to stop. The only defending that is going on at the moment is the defense of the government assertion that it has the right to tell all other nations how to do their business, and the control of future financial assets.

As a nation we need to progress, and don't ask don't tell is just a small example of how much further we need to go.


I don't disagree with you about the bigotry associated with homosexuality - I wish it wasn't a problem any more, either. However, wishing something was different or saying that it's wrong doesn't change the fact that that's often how it is. And considering the standard length of service is two years, I really don't think it's too much to ask someone to 'stay in the closet' for that length of time, especially considering that during that formative period, they likely would be anyways, even if they weren't in the military.

Just as a point - does anyone know that if a discharge as a result of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, is an honorable or dishonorable discharge? I couldn't see it being a dishonorable discharge - there are many things that affect your life for years after such a discharge. If it is a case of dishonorable discharge, I think that should be changed.


Remember this is just my opinion - how I feel about the situation, I don't say these things to offend anyone.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 6:26:27 PM

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Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 7:55:04 PM

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Yeah, it looks like it is an honorable discharge, which is good - Dishonorable discharges mess your life up, BAD. I would have been very surprised if the DA/DT discharges were dishonorable, actually. And I'm all for DA/DT discharged personnel being eligible for full benefits. I'm not saying they should automatically get it (unless of course, they already qualify,) but it should be available, like it is for other personnel. Anyway, basically what I'm saying is that being gay should not be a cause for discrimination in this regard.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:46:44 PM

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"Why reward them for that by giving the same amount as guys who were straight like they are supposed to be in the military?"

Honestly?

I can, but have not patience for your tirades, and won't delve into how wrong that statement is.
lafayettemister
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:40:13 AM

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Location: Alabama, United States
I dont' think it should matter at all what a person's sexual life is. I may be in the minority here.. there are still plenty of people that think differently than I do. As much as I think gay people should be allowed to act like everyone else in the military and not hide their sexuality, a congress person should vote according to what their own district/state wants them to vote. After all, that's what democracy is, or should be, about.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
myself
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:55:13 AM

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SadBi-Virgin wrote:
I really do think that all gay service members should just come out all at once. The policy would be dismissed within a week if all gay service members came out.


I really like this idea -If I was in the service, I'd stand with them to say I'm against the policy too : )

Torture the data long enough and they will confess to anything.
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