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Force 8.9 earthquake hits Japan Options · View
nicola
Posted: Friday, March 11, 2011 2:44:55 PM

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http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/8998621/hundreds-dead-in-japanese-quake-tsunami-disaster/

There's talk about a nuclear power plant needing to release radioactive gas too, to prevent an even bigger catastrophe.

The death toll is already thought to be approaching 1000, millions are stranded in the big cities with electricity cut off.

What is going on with all these natural disasters of late?
Catnip
Posted: Saturday, March 12, 2011 7:52:49 AM

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It's horrible. If anyone needs a place to stay, the chat rooms are open 24/7.
(or I could have a few people in my room, but I don't live in Japan...)

Guest
Posted: Saturday, March 12, 2011 6:56:49 PM

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Previously, there was the huge one in the Indian Ocean. Think plate tectonics. The Earth is ever changing, we just can't stand that it interrupts our visit.
obscura
Posted: Saturday, March 12, 2011 9:02:23 PM

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Location: Zef Side
It is horrible indeed. The power of nature never fails to amaze me.

The fact is that earthquakes have been happening as long as the earth has been here, wherever that is... Besides, we're getting close to December 2012 anyway, keh.

Guest
Posted: Saturday, March 12, 2011 10:50:21 PM

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The scariest part of the whole nuclear power plant issue is after shock. Cross your fingers.
SIL50
Posted: Sunday, March 13, 2011 11:39:58 PM

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Location: Alabama
Just for the record last time they had an earthquake close to this magnitude, Mt. Fuji erupted. Heard today that a volcano in the southern part was erupting.
nicola
Posted: Monday, March 14, 2011 1:31:20 AM

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I saw on the news earlier that 2000 people were found dead on a beach in the north.

I know nuclear power stations need lots of water to cool, but building them close to the ocean? I mean, Tsunami is a Japanese word. What on earth were they thinking?
obscura
Posted: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:05:01 AM

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Location: Zef Side
They either need lots of wind or lots of water. I don't know if there is enough wind in Japan but they obviously chose to go with water cooled reactors for whatever reasons. I can't imagine a tsunami destroying a nuclear power plant as they would have had measures in place to prevent that. And as far as I am aware it wasn't the tsunami that broke the cooling systems but the earthquake which is an extremely rare event, at that magnitude anyway.

Jillicious
Posted: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:32:58 AM

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nicola wrote:
I know nuclear power stations need lots of water to cool, but building them close to the ocean? I mean, Tsunami is a Japanese word. What on earth were they thinking?


It is cheaper and more efficient to use a large body of water for cooling. According to Nuclear News from March of 2010, all six reactors at Fukushima are boiling water reactors (BWR).

A BWR has five levels of shielding
-Zircaloy alloy is coated over the fuel rods
-The reactor pressure vessel is made of 6-inch thick steel. 150 mm for our metric using friends.
-The primary containment is 1 inch thick steel 25.4 mm
-secondary containment of reinforced concrete. 4-8 feet thick. 1.2 to 2.4 meters
-the reactor building is also made of reinforced concrete. 1-3 feet or 0.3 to 1 meter

The water used goes through a separate cooling loop around the reactor pressure vessel and pumped back out into the ocean. There are other safety cooling systems that have, from the information on the news, apparently failed on ONE of the reactors.

The Shutdown Decay Heat of a nuclear reactor can be easily calculated:
P=(P-initial)(6.1x10^-3)[(time since shutdown)^-0.02-(time since startup)^-0.02]

^ means to the power of, and the brackets are an indication of multiplication or to signify the mathematical order of operations.

so the power left in the Unit 1, 439 MWe, Fukushima plant is as close as I can figure:
Power = (439)(6.1x10^-3)[(3 days)^-0.02-(365 days)^-0.02]

0.24 MWe of power left in the fuel rods.

Admittedly my choosing of 365 days since startup is a HUGE assumption. Fuel rods in a BWR are replaced by 1/4 at a time so the reactor does not have to be shut down. 0.24 MWe is still a huge load of power and I would say on the very low end of what is actually left in Fukushima Unit 1.

The fastest way to kill the nuclear reaction would be to flood the vessel with Xenon-135 (with a thermal cross section of 1.2 Million Barnes) or Iodine-135. The major negative result would be a large amount of Cesium-135 being produced, which has a half life of 2 million years. The huge cross section of 1.2 million Barnes means that Xenon prevents fissile material from starting fission with other uranium atoms.


It will take some time to cool the uranium to a workable level. I'm thinking somewhere in the 60-80 days time frame. Once that is done the Fukushima plant will most likely be sealed.

I'm no expert on this so feel free to discard anything I've said.


I don't have a source but I did read somewhere that the island of Honshu was moved 8 ft. That is a considerable distance for an earthquake.


Thousands of user submitted stories removed from the site. You are nothing without your users or their freely submitted stories.
nicola
Posted: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:36:35 PM

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http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/9010010/humanitarian-crisis-deepens-in-quake-hit-japan/

It looks like one of the power stations is heading for a full scale meltdown.
dan17
Posted: Monday, March 14, 2011 9:20:46 PM

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Joined: 3/14/2011
Posts: 283
all we need to do is to pray to all disaster of other country will going through and hoping not to happen in our country... since we cannot control this gods act...angel7

mrgay
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:13:47 PM

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I admire and am impressed with the way the Japanese are handling the aftermath despite the concerns about the potential nuclear meltdown. Considering what has happened, everyone is working together for the greater good of survival, politely standing in line for water and basic food supplies. The culture really asserts a level or order and calm and community.

I strongly suspect that if the same earthquake/tsunami disaster hit North America, the aftermath would not quite be as orderly, and in fact would probably escalate into total anarchy, looting and violence (if we look at Katrina as a kind of preview). Another reason to hope (possibly in vain) that the same kind of natural disaster doesn't hit this continent.

WellMadeMale
Posted: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 11:01:45 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
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Location: Cakeland, United States
That poor country is getting it's ass kicked.

Earthquakes, tsunamis and now...another fucking volcano going batshit on 'em.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366109/Japan-volcano-Earthquake-tsunami-potential-nuclear-meltdown-enough.html

Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 7:37:01 PM

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Got a co-worker who's daughter lives in Japan. It's a temp thing but for some reason she's not leaving, just yet. I don't get it.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:05:28 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
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Location: Cakeland, United States
Thirty-five years ago, Dale G. Bridenbaugh and two of his colleagues at General Electric resigned from their jobs after becoming increasingly convinced that the nuclear reactor design they were reviewing --the Mark 1 -- was so flawed it could lead to a devastating accident.

What fuels Japan's nuclear reactors?

At this time, it is being openly admitted that readings are 400 mR/hr at 20 miles out from the source.

What really pisses me off is the utter lack of honest news actually coming out of or being reported about the dire situation in Japan. Mainstream Media in the US? Might as well forget it. You have to get the news from the internet and of all places...Rense or PrisonPlanet.

We are fucked



Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:11:07 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
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Location: Cakeland, United States
http://www.infowars.com/alert-fukushima-coverup-40-years-of-spent-nuclear-rods-blown-sky-high/

http://www.nirs.org/reactorwatch/accidents/6-1_powerpoint.pdf <-- Information crucial to what is actually on site at these nuclear reactor sites.

The world is being told that only Building no.4 has stored spent fuel rods. ALL 6 buildings are storing spent rods. It should be obvious by now that the authorities in Japan are lying about the effort to contain the situation in order to mollify the public.

The Fukushima Daiichi plant has seven pools dedicated to spent fuel rods. These are located at the top of six reactor buildings – or were until explosions and fires ravaged the plant. On the ground level there is a common pool in a separate building that was critical damaged by the tsunami. Each reactor building pool holds 3,450 fuel rod assemblies and the common pool holds 6,291 fuel rod assemblies. Each assembly holds sixty-three fuel rods. In short, the Fukushima Daiichi plant contains over 600,000 spent fuel rods – a massive amount of radiation that will soon be released into the atmosphere.

http://www.japannuclear.com/nuclearpower/program/waste.html



Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
Jillicious
Posted: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:38:04 PM

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Posts: 1,293
It must be a conspiracy.

Thousands of user submitted stories removed from the site. You are nothing without your users or their freely submitted stories.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 6:06:46 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,471
Location: Cakeland, United States
Jillicious wrote:
It must be a conspiracy.


Contrary to an old adage, what you don’t know CAN harm you.

One may be the most highly intelligent person in the world, but if he or she
is operating on erroneous or incomplete information, a truthful and correct
conclusion on any issue is impossible.

Additionally, a person is at a distinct disadvantage when confronted with
new and unfamiliar information in any situation. So, you want to know all
you can about a wide variety of topics. And none are more fascinating than
the subjects being tossed about on the Internet in the Digital Age.

Some of the issues are concerned with conspiracy, a term formerly disparaged
by the corporate-controlled mass media. However, since the attacks of Sep-
tember 11, 2001, were obviously the result of someone’s conspiracy, the term has been
somewhat rehabilitated.

My motto—“If it’s not an act of God, it’s a conspiracy”—still
stands.
Sure, accidents happen. Cars crash, ships sink and airplanes crash.

But if an event is not an accident and more than one person is involved, by the dictionary
definition, you have a conspiracy.


Conspiracies are not all bad. If you throw your friend a surprise birthday
party, that’s a conspiracy, but it’s not a bad one. However, if people conspire to break
the law or harm someone else, that’s certainly not good.

The Internet is chock-full of conspiracies and mysteries. The Net is a conundrum within
itself because the upside of the Internet is that everyone and anyone has access to
this modern phenomenon. The downside is that everyone and anyone has access.
The problem is separating the wheat from the chaff, distinguishing between good
information and bad.

How does one fnd the truth behind any conspiracy? Take a lesson from the
great detectives and journalists of the past.

Don’t settle for superficial and facile explanations. Dig past the obvious
evidence—which can be fabricated or planted - and look for finer facts. Go past the
headlines and seek evidence in the small print deep within a news story. Carefully
look at the source of a story.

If you read an article about the safeness of nuclear power and note that the story
is based on information from the Atomic Industrial Forum, an industry organization
promoting the commercial use of nuclear power, you will know that you are not
getting both sides of the story.


Likewise, a piece raising alarm over land use citing the Earth Liberation Front as its
source most probably is not a fair and balanced account of the issue.
Study all sides of an issue. Don’t allow partisan politics or an ingrained
belief system to infuence what you read and hear.

Don’t trust polls and statistics; it has been repeatedly proven that these
can be manipulated by loaded questions and misleading arithmetic. For example, did
you know that 82.4 percent of all statistics are just made up on the spot? See what
I mean?


Don’t put your trust in media personalities. In Great Britain, they have it
right. Instead of “news anchors,” media talking heads there are called “presenters,”
a more appropriate description. Most news presenters are fine folks but let’s face it,
they “rip and read,” that is, they read news stories right off the wires that are placed
before them.

They simply do not have the time or inclination to verify all the stories they must deal
with on a daily basis. Additionally, they rarely have the background knowledge or
leniency from management to pass judgment on the truth of any given story. After all,
the sins of the corporate-controlled mass media are primarily those of omission
rather than commission.


Most importantly, begin to think for yourself rather than putting your trust in per -
sons and pronouncements in the media. This does not mean that any old idea that
pops into your head is as valid as those of conventional thinking.

Davy Crockett once said, “Be always sure you’re right and then go ahead.”
The key here is to make certain you know what you are talking about. Just because
you learned something in Sunday school, public school or from your parents does not
necessarily mean that you got correct information.

When you tackle a controversial issue, start out with the fundamental questions that
were once taught to beginning journalism students—Who, What, When,
Where and Why.


Armed with these basics and hopefully a dash of deductive reasoning, you are now ready to take on the world of mystery and conspiracy.

- Jim Marrs (investigative reporter)


Maybe it's a conspiracy Jill...or maybe it's just some professor making up stories and throwing shit against the wall in a classroom of young, naive students hoping some of what he spouts, will stick. And 'that' can't be a conspiracy, can it?

Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
Jillicious
Posted: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 6:18:54 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/28/2009
Posts: 1,293
Every physicist that has been a consultant on the news; MSNBC, Fox, CNN, even PBS, have completely disagreed with Alex Jones and his sensationalist news articles. It would be extremely unlikely that a significant amount of radioactive material makes it to the US. But of course it should right? After all we are narcissistic enough. Maybe if we are lucky we can get a banana equivalent dose.

You do make a good point about the stored fuel rods being on the roof. We could pose the question directly to some CNN, Fox News, Headline News, or (your favorite news source here) and see what they say. Making sensationalist news articles based on fuzzy math and emotions is the worst thing we could do right now.

It appears Nicola has started a thread about decommissioning all nuclear reactors in the think tank. You could go there and vent your frustrations. I don't believe I'll be participating in the discussion but merely watching from the sidelines. Nuclear is, after all, emotional and political before it is scientific and useful.

I apologize if I have offended you.

Thousands of user submitted stories removed from the site. You are nothing without your users or their freely submitted stories.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 6:29:44 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,471
Location: Cakeland, United States
Jillicious wrote:
I apologize if I have offended you.


You offend no one, Jill. bunny Least of all, me.

Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
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