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Olivia
Posted: Sunday, August 14, 2011 2:56:47 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/7/2011
Posts: 112
I received this message for advice so I'm posting it anonymously here, because this is a problem that seems to put people into a spin quite often. The more people that can benefit from this advice, the better.

"I like this girl but I'm not sure how she feels about me and she knows i like her. Should i move on since I am not sure if she is interested in me?"

What we have here is a classic "Friend Zone" situation.

The short answer is yes, please move on. If a girl knows how you feel about her, and she is not addressing the situation or reciprocating with a "omg, I've been secretly crushing on you too!" response, then she is not interested in you!

I'll say it one more time, broken down, because this seems to be the statement that often results in people finding a million excuses to explain it away because your case is special and that people just don't get how 'unique' your particular relationship is: She. Is. Not. Interested.

The reason I am so certain of this is because when you find out (or even suspect) that the person you like definitely feels something for you, you aren't going to do the evasive 'buddy dodge' and waste time pretending to be platonic friends.

Women tend to really love having male friends in general. It can be refreshing to not constantly be around estrogen all the time. Sometimes they even lightly flirt with them because women enjoy attention and playful banter.

Some men take flirting very literally. Their friend Lucy might say "hey! sexy shirt... you're lookin' hot tonight, Toby!" one night at the bar. What Toby might hear can range from "I want to suck your dick" to "I want to marry you and have your babies." Lucy on the other hand was just casually bantering and indulging in some attention seeking behaviour. Every woman wants to imagine that all her male friends lust for her. This doesn't mean that she ever wants them to act on it.

Which brings us to the Awkward Moment:

You have confessed your feelings for your opposite sex friend. Perhaps you initiated a heartfelt conversation while driving in the car one evening as the sun set and Celine Dion played on the radio (this happened to me once). Or maybe it was a drunken text you ended up sending late one night. Or a slurred confession in the corner of the bar while she sipped her drink and prayed for an intervention to save you both from that moment you just can't really take back once it's all out in the open.

IF after confessing your feelings, this person changes the subject, ignores what you said, reiterates what a great person you are and how much they care about you as 'friend', suggests they set you up with someone else who would be 'perfect for you', or laughs it off and starts talking about what round of drinks to buy next... They are not interested!

Do not be misguided and start thinking they will change their minds later, or that if you continue being their BFF that they will see the light one day and realize that you are the man for them. And especially, please do not consider increasing your romantic overtures with a 'if at first you don't succeed, try, try again!' mentality.

Move on from this person. I know it's not easy when you have feelings for someone, but unless you want to ruin your friendship completely or entertain even more awkwardness, then it's best to accept that you are not fated to be together.

IF, by some anomaly of the typical friend zone rules, she does develop feelings for you much later on, let her come to you. Don't be the doormat waiting in the wings. In fact, it's common knowledge that when you move on and start pursuing other girls, the original object of your affections may start to get those first inklings of jealousy and wonder what they might have missed out on.




nicola
Posted: Sunday, August 14, 2011 3:09:51 PM

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Good advice Olivia.

I wish more guys would take the (usually not so subtle) hint sooner, rather than making the situation awkward.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, August 14, 2011 3:22:43 PM

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Excellent post, as usual Olivia!!

(boys take note - although I guess it applies to the girls too)
Olivia
Posted: Sunday, August 14, 2011 3:36:26 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/7/2011
Posts: 112
Sometimes guys don't know when they are in the Friend Zone, so they are more likely to initiate those awkward moments.
Here are some helpful hints!

How to know if you are in the Friend Zone!

She starts asking your advice on other dudes and wants your help with decoding their real intentions. In other words, you are her "bro-translator" when it comes to guys that she actually likes!

When you are out at the bar with her, she is on the prowl for other guys and entertains their advances while you buy her drinks and watch her purse while she's on the dance floor grinding with them.

You are willing to do things that no other guys will do... like take salsa dancing lessons with her.

She invites you out to group activities sporadicly OR on those nights were she doesn't want to deal with other guys. You are her 'fake boyfriend' or wing-man that will go with her to those parties nobody else wants to be bothered with.

You are on-call as her 'date' for boring things like weddings, funerals and broadway musicals.

She invites you over (usually on a Sunday or Monday night) when she's exhausted from her weekend fuck-fest with other dudes and she just wants to chill out and play scrabble or watch Harry Potter.

You are that friend that comes with non-sexual benefits like a big-screen TV, a yacht, or a time-share in Aruba. OR you can fix things like her computer or sound-system and know how to install her new kitchen sink or fancy tiled backsplash. If her calls usually begin with "Hey Toby, do you wanna come by my place tonight. I can make chilli for dinner and then maybe you can help me with XYZ", you are in the Friend Zone!
clum
Posted: Sunday, August 14, 2011 4:23:44 PM

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So many of your points ring true with me, Olivia. Fortunately (did I just say that?), I have been in this situation so many times that I figured out everything you said a while ago and no longer spend long periods of time pining for girls that are never going to be interested. I consider myself the 'master' of the friend zone.

I have a peculiar example of this sort of thing, though. There was a girl who genuinely seemed more interested in me than I was in her to begin with (and that wasn't just in my imagination, trust me). On our second meeting, I got her number and she barely stopped texting me from then on. When we met again (by arrangement) at a 'disco', she was all over me and my friends actually double-took at me grinding and making out with her (so unlike me). She took me back to her flat and we spent the night together, although there was no sex.

Seeing as this sort of thing NEVER happens to me, and she seemed pretty much perfect for me (hot to boot), I quickly became infatuated. Already wary of my previous failings with women, I strived to stay out of the friend zone; I wanted to take the relationship forward. Unfortunately, there was an on-off ex-boyfriend lurking in the background, conversation about whom I purposely avoided. I was and am sure I was making my intentions clear but it still seemed like I was slipping into the position of confidante yet again. I was so frustrated.

Before I let myself get too far into the zone, I decided I would just have a flat-out conversation with her about it. When she expressed then that she didn't want that kind of relationship with me then, I said to her, "Should I just forget about it then?" and she said that she didn't want me to do that. I was so confused, but carried on. It wouldn't have been so bad if she hadn't left that glimmer of hope. The friendship became excruciating to me because of my attachment to her (especially seeing her being jerked around by her asshole (ex-)boyfriend). It was a very emotional couple of months for both of us, but I didn't make any more advances on her. Another long overdue conversation put me much more firmly in the friend zone, and I could finally start to move on properly.

A few weeks later, when she drunkenly came onto me, it took all my strength to resist her (I deserve a fucking medal, quite honestly). I knew I couldn't put myself through that drama. That nearly destroyed our friendship, but thankfully we got through it and are still very good friends to this day. I realise we weren't as compatible as I had myself believe and I'm quite glad nothing came of it in the end.

So be cautious - even when it seems like it could go somewhere, you can still end up in the friend zone. The important thing is, like Olivia says, to realise when you're there. It took me a bit longer in this case, but I put that largely down to her. Sure, I got hurt, but I learned a lot for future relationships.

Also, I take exception to you describing Broadway musicals as "boring". To be frank, I'd love it if more of my friends would invite me out on such 'dates'.

Love your work, O.

She Just Wants To Be

Third place entry in the Toy With Me competition.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, August 14, 2011 5:10:08 PM

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Ok, probably a dumb question but how do you avoid being put in the friendzone? I'm pretty much guaranteed to be in the friendzone if I can get a woman to talk to me for longer than 5 minutes and I'm tired of not being seen as a potential partner
clum
Posted: Sunday, August 14, 2011 7:23:03 PM

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studintraining wrote:
Ok, probably a dumb question but how do you avoid being put in the friendzone? I'm pretty much guaranteed to be in the friendzone if I can get a woman to talk to me for longer than 5 minutes and I'm tired of not being seen as a potential partner


Before you even say a word, grab her tits.

Works every time...

She Just Wants To Be

Third place entry in the Toy With Me competition.
LadyX
Posted: Sunday, August 14, 2011 7:28:12 PM

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Posts: 4,813
I second that. Or, get a job as a pizza delivery man. When your work is over, order your own pizza, then deliver it to the girl of your dreams. Insert your cock through the middle of the pizza from the underside, and then when she opens the box, she'll see that you'll have delivered her a large sausage!

Unmistakably not a 'friend zone' move, Casanova. ;)
Olivia
Posted: Monday, August 15, 2011 9:37:16 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/7/2011
Posts: 112
clum wrote:

I have a peculiar example of this sort of thing, though. There was a girl who genuinely seemed more interested in me than I was in her to begin with (and that wasn't just in my imagination, trust me). On our second meeting, I got her number and she barely stopped texting me from then on. When we met again (by arrangement) at a 'disco', she was all over me and my friends actually double-took at me grinding and making out with her (so unlike me). She took me back to her flat and we spent the night together, although there was no sex.

Seeing as this sort of thing NEVER happens to me, and she seemed pretty much perfect for me (hot to boot), I quickly became infatuated. Already wary of my previous failings with women, I strived to stay out of the friend zone; I wanted to take the relationship forward. Unfortunately, there was an on-off ex-boyfriend lurking in the background, conversation about whom I purposely avoided. I was and am sure I was making my intentions clear but it still seemed like I was slipping into the position of confidante yet again. I was so frustrated.

Before I let myself get too far into the zone, I decided I would just have a flat-out conversation with her about it. When she expressed then that she didn't want that kind of relationship with me then, I said to her, "Should I just forget about it then?" and she said that she didn't want me to do that. I was so confused, but carried on. It wouldn't have been so bad if she hadn't left that glimmer of hope. The friendship became excruciating to me because of my attachment to her (especially seeing her being jerked around by her asshole (ex-)boyfriend). It was a very emotional couple of months for both of us, but I didn't make any more advances on her. Another long overdue conversation put me much more firmly in the friend zone, and I could finally start to move on properly.

A few weeks later, when she drunkenly came onto me, it took all my strength to resist her (I deserve a fucking medal, quite honestly). I knew I couldn't put myself through that drama. That nearly destroyed our friendship, but thankfully we got through it and are still very good friends to this day. I realise we weren't as compatible as I had myself believe and I'm quite glad nothing came of it in the end.



Dearest Clum,

Unfortunately the diagnosis for this emotionally confounding situation is... You were in "The Rebound Zone".

Unlike the friend zone, the rebound zone is one where you will get an immediate rush and almost manic release of desire and affection from a person. The texting, public grinding and making out are examples of a woman that had decided to stick it to her to asshole 'on and off again' ex-boyfriend and move on. Unless someone is aware of these 'on/off again' exes lurking in the background, it's easy to take things at face value: That this hottie wants you and it's green-lights ahead.

Rebound Girls (and guys) are great for flings, quickies, fuck-buddies, or one-nighters. It becomes much more complicated when we start to develop feelings for them or have hopes of a relationship because they are usually emotionally unavailable. They are still going through the drama of their break-up or trying to resolve where they stand with their exes and run a very high risk of running back to them. They often act-out initially in a very sexually aggressive or even "high on new love" way with the target of their rebound because they have fragile or broken egos (from their previous relationships) and want the comfort of knowing that they can have it all again (and in record time!).

It seems like you were caught in the cross-hairs of this situation. Once things simmered down, it seems she realized she didn't want to jump into a new relationship yet and started feeling the tugs of her ex-bf. Basically this situation is like playing with an emotional grenade if you already have feelings for her.

You can enjoy the sexual and casual aspect of this relationship with her, but as you wisely realized this can run the risk of ruining your friendship. Until she has sorted herself out, she is not a good prospect for pinning your romantic hopes on.

It sounds like you are already ahead of the game and playing this perfectly. Well done!

Olivia xxx
Olivia
Posted: Monday, August 15, 2011 9:43:26 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/7/2011
Posts: 112
studintraining wrote:
Ok, probably a dumb question but how do you avoid being put in the friendzone? I'm pretty much guaranteed to be in the friendzone if I can get a woman to talk to me for longer than 5 minutes and I'm tired of not being seen as a potential partner


Dear StudinTraining,

You can't avoid it. It just happens.

Try to make your intentions known ahead of time with a girl if you are interested in her. She may reject you completely, but at least you aren't in The Friend Zone. The reject zone is usually easier to move on from as well.

As LadyX's pizza strategy mentions: when you are trying to hook things up, go easy on the cheese .... and heavy on the sausage. The spicier the better!

Olivia xxx
clum
Posted: Monday, August 15, 2011 10:13:41 AM

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Olivia wrote:
Dearest Clum,

Unfortunately the diagnosis for this emotionally confounding situation is... You were in "The Rebound Zone".

Unlike the friend zone, the rebound zone is one where you will get an immediate rush and almost manic release of desire and affection from a person. The texting, public grinding and making out are examples of a woman that had decided to stick it to her to asshole 'on and off again' ex-boyfriend and move on. Unless someone is aware of these 'on/off again' exes lurking in the background, it's easy to take things at face value: That this hottie wants you and it's green-lights ahead.

Rebound Girls (and guys) are great for flings, quickies, fuck-buddies, or one-nighters. It becomes much more complicated when we start to develop feelings for them or have hopes of a relationship because they are usually emotionally unavailable. They are still going through the drama of their break-up or trying to resolve where they stand with their exes and run a very high risk of running back to them. They often act-out initially in a very sexually aggressive or even "high on new love" way with the target of their rebound because they have fragile or broken egos (from their previous relationships) and want the comfort of knowing that they can have it all again (and in record time!).

It seems like you were caught in the cross-hairs of this situation. Once things simmered down, it seems she realized she didn't want to jump into a new relationship yet and started feeling the tugs of her ex-bf. Basically this situation is like playing with an emotional grenade if you already have feelings for her.

You can enjoy the sexual and casual aspect of this relationship with her, but as you wisely realized this can run the risk of ruining your friendship. Until she has sorted herself out, she is not a good prospect for pinning your romantic hopes on.

It sounds like you are already ahead of the game and playing this perfectly. Well done!

Olivia xxx


Thanks for your response, Olivia. There was a bit more to it than it being a straightforward rebound (there were a lot of psychological considerations and she was all about the 'college experience' at the time) but you are essentially right. She picked a bad guy for rebounding, I'm all about commitment, and I think she realised that (if a little too late). Once she finally actually split from her boyfriend, she had a proper rebound period with more appropriate people.

Strange as it sounds, I'm just relieved I didn't sleep with her.

Thanks again, you're better than I had at first suspected. :) x

She Just Wants To Be

Third place entry in the Toy With Me competition.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 8:28:40 AM

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Location: Cakeland, United States
The friend zone is not the horrible place which some paint it to be. It is not some purgatory where you are meant to be in emotional limbo.

I feel that I'm fortunate to have enjoyed several female friendships over the last 30 years. Those ladies all have had a substantial circle of friends too.

Farm and cultivate the friend zone, I say...you may well be glad that you did. Be a gentleman and a rogue. At appropriate moments.

And eventually, you may even bone a few of your close female friends. It just happens on their time-table and not the one you may have once desired.

Patience, young dudes.

Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 11:29:46 AM

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I had a male friend that tried three times (once every six weeks) before he finally said "ohhhh I get it now."

We would usually be talking about random things at his place when all of a sudden he would dim the lights, put on the sex tunes and sit a little too close to me on the sofa. A lot of times I would actually be talking about other men, hoping I could divert things from going there. But nope... he'd slowly move in for the kill... ugh!!!

The whole "I don't see you like that. We are just buddies" was awkward the first time. But when he tried two more times after that I got pissed off. When I asked "what part of 'I don't see you like that' didn't you get?" he just replied. "Oh, I thought you just needed more time."

With every male friend I've had, I always make it a point to talk about other guys I'm interested in or find hot. I've always hoped that they would be able to understand that I wouldn't be crushing and gushing about other guys if I was the slightest bit interested in them. But... some guys are totally clueless.


Nikki703
Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 4:32:44 PM

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Dancing_Doll wrote:
But... some guys are totally clueless.


Some? HAHA!

You can tell them you are in love with another man, a lesbian, celibate, only have sex with aliens. Doesnt matter, they hear what they want to hear. Sorry guys but its true.

I usually try to make it clear that I just want to be friends. Then once I started my relationship with Ann, I figured if I let them know that I am in a relationship with a woman and I just want to be friends, they would get the message. WRONG!! That was such a big mistake. While I am saying I am not into you like that, they are hearing "THREESOME"!

Luckily I have some great male friends who accept that and a few who are occaisional playthings and not looking for more than that.
jhmik_88
Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 8:31:59 PM

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Nikki703 wrote:
Dancing_Doll wrote:
But... some guys are totally clueless.


Some? HAHA!

You can tell them you are in love with another man, a lesbian, celibate, only have sex with aliens. Doesnt matter, they hear what they want to hear. Sorry guys but its true.

I usually try to make it clear that I just want to be friends. Then once I started my relationship with Ann, I figured if I let them know that I am in a relationship with a woman and I just want to be friends, they would get the message. WRONG!! That was such a big mistake. While I am saying I am not into you like that, they are hearing "THREESOME"!

Luckily I have some great male friends who accept that and a few who are occaisional playthings and not looking for more than that.


Hey! I resent that! haha. But I'm the type of guy that will either be the perfect boyfriend, or the perfect friend. It's quite simple for me to know when I've landed myself in the friend zone. Which happens way too often...



Guest
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 4:11:34 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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Maybe this has already been mentioned or asked but what are the benefits of the friend zone for the uninterested person thats being pursued?
Is it like a test of the other person's loyalty and intentions for a genuine relationship(be that friendship or romantic) or do they keep the friendzoned person around as like a contingency plan, ie "I'm in my 30s now and Mr Right still hasnt shown up, this guy will have to do" type of thing?
btw, thats not from personal experience, just trying to gain more insight
clum
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 4:36:45 AM

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studintraining wrote:
Maybe this has already been mentioned or asked but what are the benefits of the friend zone for the uninterested person thats being pursued?


It's highly possible that they just enjoy your company and genuinely want to be friends with you (and that is from personal experience).

The Friend Zone, as WMM alluded to, is not a place to be feared or avoided at all costs. Better that, surely, than the Creepy-Guys-Who-Won't-Leave-Me-Alone Zone. Whereas I may not be the luckiest person in love so far, I consider myself very rich in good friends, some of whom have rejected my romantic advances in the past.

Some women may look at you as their 'back-up' - "If neither of us are married when we turn 40..." - but one shouldn't suspect everybody who rejects them and still wants them around of having ulterior motives. If they do see you like that, then what harm is done? At least they think somewhat fondly of you and would rather end up with you than be alone forever.

P.S. Sorry that I'm posting a lot on this thread. The 'Friend Zone' is a subject close to my heart, as you can probably tell. If you think this is bad, just wait until Olivia posts a 'Bitches Be Crazy' blog - I could write an essay!

She Just Wants To Be

Third place entry in the Toy With Me competition.
Olivia
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 6:28:35 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/7/2011
Posts: 112
studintraining wrote:
Maybe this has already been mentioned or asked but what are the benefits of the friend zone for the uninterested person thats being pursued?
Is it like a test of the other person's loyalty and intentions for a genuine relationship(be that friendship or romantic) or do they keep the friendzoned person around as like a contingency plan, ie "I'm in my 30s now and Mr Right still hasnt shown up, this guy will have to do" type of thing?
btw, thats not from personal experience, just trying to gain more insight


The benefits of the friend zone for the uninterested person is... friendship.

Hard to believe, isn't it?

Women don't just want men for their bank accounts, their cocks, and their sperm count.

Imagine it this way. Let's say you have a buddy named Joe. You guys spend time fishing, going to monster truck rallys, playing sports, and picking up hot chicks. He's the best wing man you ever had. One night after some cold beers, Joe turns to you in the moonlight . You take note of his adoring gaze and the giant bulge in his pants. Suddenly Joe confesses that he has deep feelings for you and since you are so close already, why not take the next step?

That's how it feels when your opposite-sex friend that you've always seen in a sexually neutral way springs the "let's take things to the next level" conversation.

Awkward, right?

Friendship is just that: friendship.

It doesn't mean that they are reserving you in the bullpen just in case they never find anyone to marry (that's usually what you do with your fuck-buddies; which is very different from the friend zone). It just means that they enjoy your company, find you interesting and like hanging out together... in a very platonic kind of way.

Important Note: If any of you ever have a 'friend' who turns to you with a proposal along the lines of "well, I can't find Mr Right and I'm getting old now, so I guess you'll do," please walk away. You don't ever want to be the back-up plan someone begrudgingly decides to go along with as a last resort.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2011 8:58:09 AM

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You know, this is not just a phenomenon that is relegated to men coming on to their lady friends.

I've experienced a small handful of women over the last 30 years who wanted more than friendship. And that moment is quite awkward. Even more complicated when it occurs in front of other people you both may know.

Like leaning over close for the pre-kiss dreamy eyed look (only to not have it returned). It did not help that she was the younger sister of a woman I was deeply in love/lust with, 20 years earlier. Eh, I managed to salvage that friendship by blaming it on the booze she and I had consumed. She never tried that shit again.

A 50 year old woman sitting across a table from me, while my best male friend sat to my right. The 36 year old woman sitting close to my left who I'd been banging occasionally for the last 7 years (was her daughter). When the mother proclaimed after her usual four Long Island Tea cocktails...

"I bet I can suck your dick better than my daughter can!" She boasted this verbally, while leaning back in the chair, spreading her legs and flashing me and my friend her snatch - in commando mode under her skirt.

Mom was pretty good looking...but her daughter (who is not easily stunned nor embarrassed) was slack jawed and I think I heard her jaw hit the table top in front of her. My friend was in the middle of sipping his Jack & Coke...and I think he almost spilled it on himself.

I just sat there and felt the small hairs on the back of my neck - shoot straight up and out.

There was no recovery possible on that occasion.

So this isn't just a Beta move, which is foisted on women by the less experienced men of the world.

Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
Olivia
Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:36:55 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/7/2011
Posts: 112
WellMadeMale wrote:
You know, this is not just a phenomenon that is relegated to men coming on to their lady friends.

I've experienced a small handful of women over the last 30 years who wanted more than friendship. And that moment is quite awkward. Even more complicated when it occurs in front of other people you both may know.

Like leaning over close for the pre-kiss dreamy eyed look (only to not have it returned). It did not help that she was the younger sister of a woman I was deeply in love/lust with, 20 years earlier. Eh, I managed to salvage that friendship by blaming it on the booze she and I had consumed. She never tried that shit again.

A 50 year old woman sitting across a table from me, while my best male friend sat to my right. The 36 year old woman sitting close to my left who I'd been banging occasionally for the last 7 years (was her daughter). When the mother proclaimed after her usual four Long Island Tea cocktails...

"I bet I can suck your dick better than my daughter can!" She boasted this verbally, while leaning back in the chair, spreading her legs and flashing me and my friend her snatch - in commando mode under her skirt.

Mom was pretty good looking...but her daughter (who is not easily stunned nor embarrassed) was slack jawed and I think I heard her jaw hit the table top in front of her. My friend was in the middle of sipping his Jack & Coke...and I think he almost spilled it on himself.

I just sat there and felt the small hairs on the back of my neck - shoot straight up and out.

There was no recovery possible on that occasion.

So this isn't just a Beta move, which is foisted on women by the less experienced men of the world.


You are very right, WellMadeMale... there are plenty of women in the Friend Zone as well.

It's even more problematic for a man in this situation, because men are supposed to be hard and willing to have sex with any woman that offers herself to them. It doesn't matter that it's a friend they value, or a friend they don't find sexually attractive, or even if it's a MILF flashing her bush at you in public accompanied by a vulgar suggestion. Men are supposed to want to jump at the chance to "take things to the next level" with any willing woman.

When a man doesn't want to give in to these scenarios, he has to find an even better excuse than a woman does. When a woman tells her male buddy "Sorry, I just don't see you in that way, Harvey," it's a fairly standard rejection. Harvey will nod, apologize and probably try to reassert the value of their friendship. He will probably explain away the rejection as due to bad timing or her unfortunate weakness of falling for jerks and assholes. There is always light at the end of the tunnel, as he will probably hold out some hope that eventually she will "come around."

When it happens to a man, he runs the risk of totally shattering the female friend that put herself out there. Women are typically not used to making the first move, so when they do and they are rejected they may not take things very well. She will probably immediately wonder what is wrong with her. Since you like her personality and are friends, then it must mean that you aren't attracted to her (female translation: 'Oh my god, I am heinously ugly! *Sob*). She may internalize the rejection completely. On the other hand, she may unexpectedly lash out at the man, insisting that he must be 'gay' or 'impotent' to refuse her.

Society does have to get over the fallacy that all men are always ready for sex, regardless of whom it's with.

When a man breaks down the friend zone and gets intimate with a female friend... it comes with a lot of baggage. Unless he thinks he might marry this girl, it runs an unusually high risk of destroying the friendship entirely. Girls that finally confess their feelings for their male friends are typically already very emotionally fixated on them. You have to be willing to go the distance with at least some kind of relationship. It's not going to be a one-night stand or casual thing, so proceed with caution.

And on that topic, let me reassert: I am talking about a sober person revealing their true feelings to their friend. NOT the situation where someone was totally wasted and ended up fucking their friend in an inebriated haze and doing the "ooh, gee, what the hell happened last night" hangover reaction in the morning when they wake up beside their friend and both agree to pretend like it never happened.

Getting out of the Friend Zone... and either into a relationship or the Fuck-Buddy Zone is very contingent on attraction (both sexual and psychological). It's either there or it isn't. It happens to both sexes, but I would say that the burden of awkwardness is even heavier when it's the man doing the rejecting.

Olivia xxx
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2011 2:25:43 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,666
Location: California
What about the mixed signals? I'm not just talking about a guy misinterpreting a girl's smile or her nice gesture of buying you a cup of coffee. I'm talking about those friends who will sit on your lap to share your drink. Fish for compliments about their bodies. The ones that tend to tell you things like, "God, if you were my guy we'd have so much fun all the time." Shit like that.

Dont get me wrong, I know this is all part of the game men and women play and I understand that all this type of behavior isn't always intentional or well thought out. But some dudes are more desperate than others and take anything short of, "fuck off creep," as a come on.

Sometimes women fail to realize certain guys in their lives are their friends BECAUSE they want to be more. Or they know this but choose to ignore it. Sometimes it's not just a guy being sneaky and acting like friends to try and get in that later. Sometimes it is though. But sometimes women like to test shit out when they are in the right mood.



Olivia
Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2011 7:44:50 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/7/2011
Posts: 112
Dear Magical_felix,

Yes, I know those girls (and guys). I think it's natural that we all want attention and validation, even from our platonic friends. Women might dress and flirt and enjoy knowing that she's making her friend-zone boy drool into his Heineken as he watches her on the dance floor, grooving like a stripper without a pole, maybe even winking at him for added effect.

It can be a bit of a cock tease, right?

Some women are flirty and as you wisely noticed, they like to play games and fish for compliments and attention.

One easy way to figure out her true intentions is to call her on it. If she teasingly says "God, if you were my man tonight, we'd have so much fun," then say something playful like "Ok, I'll be your man tonight. What's on the menu?" Calling her on the bluff is the fastest way to figure out how she really feels. If her smile fades when she realizes that you're serious and she says "damn Felix, I was just kidding with you," then you know she is all talk, no action.

I have a lovely friend that is a notorious cock-tease. She will flirt and push the innuendos all day long because it's a bit of a power and ego trip for her. But when someone actually calls her on it, or steps up to the plate, she freezes like a deer caught in the headlights and runs away.

My advice: call her bluff and see how she responds.

She might just be a tease, but she might also be wanting to move things into the 'fuckbuddy zone' or 'friends with benefits zone'. If you are both fun, open-minded and equally attractive people, this can be a great zone to play in.

Olivia xxx
Magical_felix
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2011 9:11:03 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,666
Location: California
Thanks! That is great advice! I should start making these bitches friends with benefits. And here I was worried about ruining a great friendship. Next time she's grinding her ass on my crotch cause I'm such a swell guy I won't hold back from letting thinks just pop up and see where it goes from there. A blow job on the way to the airport next time she needs a ride is in order too. I gotta start thinking more with my dick and stop being mr. Nice guy.

I like this new forum section.



WellMadeMale
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2011 9:29:55 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,483
Location: Cakeland, United States
Magical_felix wrote:
Thanks! That is great advice! I should start making these bitches friends with benefits. And here I was worried about ruining a great friendship. Next time she's grinding her ass on my crotch cause I'm such a swell guy I won't hold back from letting thinks just pop up and see where it goes from there. A blow job on the way to the airport next time she needs a ride is in order too. I gotta start thinking more with my dick and stop being mr. Nice guy.

I like this new forum section.


Dude...
A FWB I've known carnally, since January 2000 (fewer than 2 dozen hookups since)...has always enjoyed flirting hard with me when she and I bump into one another (unplanned) at various nightclubs around our Metro area. She and I have similar taste in entertainment and meat markets.

Since I met her in a Gentleman's Club in 1996...and I know her personality...I play along. 99% of the time, I know I'm not getting invited back to her house to provide her meat filling for her sandwich - but she's a fun woman and likes to cut loose and I like to mess around a bit too - as I am sure you do, also. And ... everyone else, men and women, take note. Michelle's often the starter log on everyone's fireplace, if you catch my drift. That's the entertaining aspect of her personality shining through. She's not an attention whore so much as she's just incredibly self aware and doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks about her...All while maintaining everyone's respect and fueling lotsa lust which will go unsatisfied (towards her). She picks and chooses who she wishes to be with ... and more often, those times she just goes home alone.

I consider her a great friend. And not just because she occasionally invites me to bust a nut.

Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
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