Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

More violent than the US or even South Africa: Great Britain? Options · View
MrNudiePants
Posted: Monday, August 15, 2011 4:38:48 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,220
Location: United States
Link to story.



Quote:
Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.
Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.


Quote:
In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.
The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.


Quote:
Experts say there are a number of reasons why violence is soaring in the UK. These include Labour's decision to relax the licensing laws to allow round-the-clock opening, which has led to a rise in the number of serious assaults taking place in the early hours of the morning.

But Police Minister David Hanson said: 'These figures are misleading. Levels of police recorded crime statistics from different countries are simply not comparable since they are affected by many factors, for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime.


Is this just an example of the Tories slinging mud at the Labour Party? Or are these statistics indicative of something people like me ave been saying for some time: that certain policies limiting the rights of citizens to self-defense are guaranteed to have long-term, negative ramifications?

Think for a moment about the inargable fact that as more American states pass laws allowing law-biding citizens to carry firearms, the violent crime rate definitely is going down. The issue is too complex to say definitively that more guns equals less crime, but it would be astounding if it were a total coincidence. Also think about the fact that those places in the USA with the higest violent crime rates also have the most draconian anti-gun laws - something they share with Great Britain.

Do more guns equal more violence? Or do more guns only add up to more gun violence? It's a no-brainer to say that if there are more guns in a society, there will be more gun violence, but it's kind of shocking to actually see statistics that show that places with more violence overall... have stricter gun laws, and stricter self-defense laws overall, with fewer firearms actually in the possession of law-abiding people. Do more lenient legal systems embolden the criminals, allowing them to ply their violent trade with more impugnity? I think so.

Opinions?
lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 8:08:36 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,447
Location: Alabama, United States
I'm with you here Mr. No Pants. In an ideal world, guns wouldn't be needed. But until that Utopian society actually happens, people should have the right to defend themselves with however much force is necessary. Pro-gun people have been saying for years that taking guns out of the hands of "good" citizens will only allow the criminal element to do whatever they wish. Because they don't care about the law anyway. Anti-gun people disagree. I think the thought that a homeowner "may" be armed is a huge deterrent and lessens our rate of burglary and break-ins. Take away that possiblity and those numbers would spike dramatically.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Buz
Posted: Sunday, August 21, 2011 8:00:52 PM

Rank: The Linebacker
Moderator

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 7,559
Location: Atlanta, United States
I have a permit to carry a concealed pistol. Why? Because in Georgia they are easy to get. So why not? I also own a lot of guns, about a dozen (actually more). Mostly hunting rifles and a couple of shotguns. I hunt and I target practice and I take gun safety very seriously.

I think no matter where you go in the world there are neighborhoods or districts that breed violence. Those areas usually have poverty, poor education and poor family structures.






Guest
Posted: Saturday, September 03, 2011 5:39:10 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,035
We have a generation of young people with no purpose. They have poor education, poor family units and no job prospects.
On the other hand there are the police who get accused of being too hard, then too soft. they cannot win whatever.
We have a schooling system which is failing and unversity places that are causing graduates to leave uni and face huge debts.
We have a government to lie, steal. over tax and take shortcuts wherever they can, selling off any decent assets we once had.
We have families who think it is the governments and societys job to raise their children and refuse to take responsibilty for thier own offspring because they have either lost control or can't be arsed.

This is just where I live. I was lucky as me and my siblings were raised decently and we did well in school, however, I have good friends who have not been so fortunate. Some turned out ok, others not so.
Yes, we have come to a point were violence is an everyday occurrence in some areas but you can't deal with the problems of society until you have honestly faced up to them. This isn't going to happen any time soon imo
Guest
Posted: Saturday, September 03, 2011 6:59:15 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,035
some people have to understand the the reason there is more crime the UK is because it is a lot small than other coutries. but yes there is a lot more crime in the UK then anywhere else. i should know i live here.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, September 03, 2011 8:43:22 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,035
lafayettemister wrote:
I'm with you here Mr. No Pants. In an ideal world, guns wouldn't be needed. But until that Utopian society actually happens, people should have the right to defend themselves with however much force is necessary. Pro-gun people have been saying for years that taking guns out of the hands of "good" citizens will only allow the criminal element to do whatever they wish. Because they don't care about the law anyway. Anti-gun people disagree. I think the thought that a homeowner "may" be armed is a huge deterrent and lessens our rate of burglary and break-ins. Take away that possiblity and those numbers would spike dramatically.


I think that the absolute last thing the UK needs is more guns, seriously, that will cause nothing but more trouble. What we need (and it always comes back to this) is education and investment. Without the social skills, moral code, jobs, community structure, things are never going to improve.

I think this is probably applicable in most 'western' countries...

AnAmber wrote:
We have a generation of young people with no purpose. They have poor education, poor family units and no job prospects.
On the other hand there are the police who get accused of being too hard, then too soft. they cannot win whatever.
We have a schooling system which is failing and unversity places that are causing graduates to leave uni and face huge debts.
We have a government to lie, steal. over tax and take shortcuts wherever they can, selling off any decent assets we once had.
We have families who think it is the governments and societys job to raise their children and refuse to take responsibilty for thier own offspring because they have either lost control or can't be arsed.

This is just where I live. I was lucky as me and my siblings were raised decently and we did well in school, however, I have good friends who have not been so fortunate. Some turned out ok, others not so.
Yes, we have come to a point were violence is an everyday occurrence in some areas but you can't deal with the problems of society until you have honestly faced up to them. This isn't going to happen any time soon imo


I think you put it really well AnAmber - things aren't going to change anytime soon the way things are...
joebackagain
Posted: Saturday, September 03, 2011 9:13:10 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 773
I couldn't agree more with both mazza and AnAmber. Bringing more guns into any equation to do with safety and protection is never going to work. You can claim all afternoon that "good people" should be able to defend themselves from "bad people" with guns. Who is certain enough to establish who is good and bad? And hypothetically, if good people did defend themselves from bad people with guns dont they become bad people then for using guns? there are too many variables to make an educated prediction on how more guns would affect society. One thing is certain, however, that less guns = less shootings.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, September 03, 2011 9:32:09 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,035
joebackagain wrote:
I couldn't agree more with both mazza and AnAmber. Bringing more guns into any equation to do with safety and protection is never going to work. You can claim all afternoon that "good people" should be able to defend themselves from "bad people" with guns. Who is certain enough to establish who is good and bad? And hypothetically, if good people did defend themselves from bad people with guns dont they become bad people then for using guns? there are too many variables to make an educated prediction on how more guns would affect society. One thing is certain, however, that less guns = less shootings.


Well said Joe - I agree
Pelicanbill
Posted: Saturday, September 03, 2011 5:27:19 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/13/2011
Posts: 304
Location: Top Of The South
Unfortunately it is now appearing that way, that the UK is more violent. So far it is not in an armed fashion as with the two cited examples. It seems to rise from
crowded cities where there is a lot of unemployment/inequality, throw in (un)healthy doses of racism and the english propensity to solve things by fighting/rioting
and that is what you get. The answer - I don't know!!
rxtales
Posted: Friday, September 09, 2011 7:25:01 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 11/28/2008
Posts: 2,589
Location: Newcastle, United Kingdom
Okay, I have been meaning to reply to this for a while. I am not so sure the UK is any more violent than the US. Sure there are areas where there is a lot of a crime, and there seems to be an increase of it, but I wouldn´t say that´s any different than the US, or most other countries for that matter. I don´t feel in danger walking down the street or anything. I feel perfectly safe walking home from a bar at 2 or 3 in the morning in London. Sure I´ve been mugged, and such, but that´s happened to me in the US as well as four or five other countries. I think the big difference between the US and UK is that in the US there are a lot of sparsly populated areas that we don´t have over here.

As for guns, that´s the last thing we need. I can just see that as being an absolute disaster.
lafayettemister
Posted: Friday, September 09, 2011 9:18:26 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,447
Location: Alabama, United States
rxtales wrote:
Okay, I have been meaning to reply to this for a while. I am not so sure the UK is any more violent than the US. Sure there are areas where there is a lot of a crime, and there seems to be an increase of it, but I wouldn´t say that´s any different than the US, or most other countries for that matter. I don´t feel in danger walking down the street or anything. I feel perfectly safe walking home from a bar at 2 or 3 in the morning in London. Sure I´ve been mugged, and such, but that´s happened to me in the US as well as four or five other countries. I think the big difference between the US and UK is that in the US there are a lot of sparsly populated areas that we don´t have over here.

As for guns, that´s the last thing we need. I can just see that as being an absolute disaster.


Been mugged in the UK, the US and four or five other countries? That is up to 7 muggings in your life. Umm, I hate to point this out but you are either running with the wrong crowd or you're going to places you shouldn't. Might be time to make a few lifestyle changes. I'm almost 40 years old and I've never been mugged. I don't know anyone that has been mugged.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Guest
Posted: Friday, September 09, 2011 9:33:57 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,035
lafayettemister wrote:
rxtales wrote:
Okay, I have been meaning to reply to this for a while. I am not so sure the UK is any more violent than the US. Sure there are areas where there is a lot of a crime, and there seems to be an increase of it, but I wouldn´t say that´s any different than the US, or most other countries for that matter. I don´t feel in danger walking down the street or anything. I feel perfectly safe walking home from a bar at 2 or 3 in the morning in London. Sure I´ve been mugged, and such, but that´s happened to me in the US as well as four or five other countries. I think the big difference between the US and UK is that in the US there are a lot of sparsly populated areas that we don´t have over here.

As for guns, that´s the last thing we need. I can just see that as being an absolute disaster.


Been mugged in the UK, the US and four or five other countries? That is up to 7 muggings in your life. Umm, I hate to point this out but you are either running with the wrong crowd or you're going to places you shouldn't. Might be time to make a few lifestyle changes. I'm almost 40 years old and I've never been mugged. I don't know anyone that's been mugged.


Ha, I was going to say something similar

Although, my youngest sister got mugged at knifepoint in Glasgow a while back.

I've had a few close calls, but I generally don't attract that sort of behaviour (ie muggers and shit), and I can generally talk my way out of these situations.

Oh, and stupidly, the reason that I've had to talk my way out of stuff is because I can't leave well enough alone and will step in when I see trouble... *sigh*
Guest
Posted: Saturday, September 10, 2011 8:14:07 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,035
rxtales
Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2011 8:10:36 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 11/28/2008
Posts: 2,589
Location: Newcastle, United Kingdom
lafayettemister wrote:
rxtales wrote:
Okay, I have been meaning to reply to this for a while. I am not so sure the UK is any more violent than the US. Sure there are areas where there is a lot of a crime, and there seems to be an increase of it, but I wouldn´t say that´s any different than the US, or most other countries for that matter. I don´t feel in danger walking down the street or anything. I feel perfectly safe walking home from a bar at 2 or 3 in the morning in London. Sure I´ve been mugged, and such, but that´s happened to me in the US as well as four or five other countries. I think the big difference between the US and UK is that in the US there are a lot of sparsly populated areas that we don´t have over here.

As for guns, that´s the last thing we need. I can just see that as being an absolute disaster.


Been mugged in the UK, the US and four or five other countries? That is up to 7 muggings in your life. Umm, I hate to point this out but you are either running with the wrong crowd or you're going to places you shouldn't. Might be time to make a few lifestyle changes. I'm almost 40 years old and I've never been mugged. I don't know anyone that has been mugged.


Yeah point taken. I haven´t lived in the safest of countries, but I do just generally have bad luck.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, September 15, 2011 3:14:21 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,035
sholomrabin wrote:
some people have to understand the the reason there is more crime the UK is because it is a lot small than other coutries. but yes there is a lot more crime in the UK then anywhere else. i should know i live here.


WOW!! ...Not too sure where you get your stats from, be it a personal guess or whatever, but the UK does certainly not have the highest crime rate in the world. There are numerous countries way worse than your country mate. Just to quote a few; SA - from 2003 to present day, no fewer than 60 000 rapes are committed annually (and not all of them are reported) ...the murder rate has decreased by just over 5% ...tally of murders 2010; 15 940 to be exact ...

Just thought I would throw that out there Whistle
MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, September 15, 2011 10:19:11 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,220
Location: United States
Conny-sure wrote:
sholomrabin wrote:
some people have to understand the the reason there is more crime the UK is because it is a lot small than other coutries. but yes there is a lot more crime in the UK then anywhere else. i should know i live here.


WOW!! ...Not too sure where you get your stats from, be it a personal guess or whatever, but the UK does certainly not have the highest crime rate in the world. There are numerous countries way worse than your country mate. Just to quote a few; SA - from 2003 to present day, no fewer than 60 000 rapes are committed annually (and not all of them are reported) ...the murder rate has decreased by just over 5% ...tally of murders 2010; 15 940 to be exact ...

Just thought I would throw that out there Whistle


Just so you know, Connie - the stats posted here came from The Daily Mail. A UK news organization.
Guest
Posted: Friday, September 16, 2011 5:12:04 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,035
Hi NP - yes, I know the Daily Mail ...and don't doubt that the stats they are providing for the UK are correct, but to try to even compare it to SA's horrendous violent crime might be a bit far fetched. Additionally; it has only been very recently that SA have made available their crime stats - and then maybe not in totality. In fact, probably not as the present regime would like to have one believe that they have everything under control.
It's an interesting topic though and by the looks of it, it's not getting any better - anywhere!!
Thanks for the insight though -
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 9:30:56 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 676,035
Im usually against the bible but, in the words of Moses "Violence only begets more violence."

If kids grow up witnessing violence, they're prone to use it later in life. There's a huge social problem in Britain at the moment, everyone seen that with the riots, and the only way to fix that is forming communities to support those living unstable lives, but as usual nothing will be done about it.
Users browsing this topic
Guest 


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.1.6 (NET v4.0) - 11/14/2007
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.