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MistressS
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 3:56:48 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 65
1ball wrote:


It seems to me this thread is about the people beneath the "lifestyle" mask. At least that's who I assume Shylass was trying to understand. It did not seem that she was asking about the mechanics of living the lifestyle. For Dom/mes and subs in the lifestyle who are true to type, what I said is true and if a Dom is too resentful of their depenency on subs, they will overcontrol because truly dominant personalities are one-trick ponies. Abuse until they have to make up is their cycle until they learn self-control, which the truly dominant personality is usually poor at achieving. If you're going to tell me that none of the Dom/mes in the lifestyle are true to type, then be prepared to be disbelieved. Overcontrol by a true-to-type Dom is a sign of fear borne from dependency. Addict behavior.

If you want to talk about Dom/mes who are not true to type, who willingly allow their subs to set the rules and dictate their behavior, then the issue isn't really trust, but display of trust, in other words play acting. In that case, you can possibly turn around what I said and find Dom/mes who are seeking a sense of self-worth in their sense of place and subs who are at risk of overcontrolling their Dom/mes out of dependency.


People in the lifestyle do not have some kind of 'mask' as you put it, we are people just like everyone else, we are not pretending to be something we are not.

When you say there must be those in the lifestyle that 'need' to control, this shows you clearly do not know what a Dom/me is, dom/mes do not abuse their sub, they look after and care for their subs, and in return the subs offer their submission. Neither side 'needs' to control/ be controlled, it is a choice of both sides. Yes there are those who do have this need, but they are not Dom/mes, they are abusers, and have no interest in the lifestyle, they only care about the control, and will exercise that control over any person they are in a relationship with, they don't want a Dom/sub relationship.

Again, i ask you to stop with these posts, you clearly have not looked up anything about the lifestyle, you seem to be working of the fantasy stories and videos that make up the majority of porn about BDSM which is very far from the reality, and you are just greatly offending those of us in the lifestyle.

If you feel the need to continue this, then message me, rather than staying in this thread.
DLizze
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:09:58 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 4/23/2011
Posts: 2,568
THANK you, Mistress S!

"There's only three tempos: slow, medium and fast. When you get between in the cracks, ain't nuthin' happenin'." Ben Webster
Shylass
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:32:35 PM

Rank: Gingerbread Lover

Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 3,660
Location: Trumpton, United Kingdom
Blimey. Sorry, I didn't mean to create any aggro. Embarassed

Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet.

***
********************************CLICK THE BANNERS TO BUY THESE WILLY-STIFFENING BOOKS!********************************
sprite
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:37:02 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 16,617
Location: My Tower, United States
Shylass wrote:
Blimey. Sorry, I didn't mean to create any aggro. Embarassed


trouble maker! i am SO keeping my eye on you!



Live, love, laugh.
Shylass
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:41:13 PM

Rank: Gingerbread Lover

Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 3,660
Location: Trumpton, United Kingdom
sprite wrote:


trouble maker! i am SO keeping my eye on you!



Can't you find a shelf? clown

Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet.

***
********************************CLICK THE BANNERS TO BUY THESE WILLY-STIFFENING BOOKS!********************************
sprite
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:43:04 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 16,617
Location: My Tower, United States
Shylass wrote:


Can't you find a shelf? clown


it kept rolling off. plus, it got dusty. and the cat kept getting up there and knocking it down and playing with it.

Live, love, laugh.
sprite
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 8:05:50 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 16,617
Location: My Tower, United States
btw? bdsm IS funny. it's a little weird, it's not something everyone is going to get, and dammit, it's ok to show a little humor. that said, laughing at it and those 'in the lifestyle' is not the same as laughing about it, if that makes sense? i think that bdsm people get a little bit edgy cause of all the misunderstanding and i think that Mistress S's bdsm 101 post should be read if people want to really understand the subject.

that said, there's often misunderstanding on both sides, like, when someone just wants to be funny, and doesn't mean any harm, or is trying to work stuff out, yeah, we tend to get a little defensive and go on the attack - honestly, as i told someone earlier - everything in life is funny, not always, but sometimes - that i like dressing up as a kitty and being tried up is hilarious! that doesn't mean i want to be laughed at, but dammit, if you smile at that thought and think i'm a bit silly, i won't be offended. i am, after all :)

if peep are truly curious, listen. if peep are just taking shots, knock it off and you'll find that bdsm peep will chill out too and sit and chat about it (probably until you wish they'd shut up). :)

mew! =^.^=

Live, love, laugh.
1ball
Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012 10:01:32 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
MistressS wrote:

If you feel the need to continue this, then message me, rather than staying in this thread.


No. I think I have something to say that others might want to read. I don't think you can presume to speak for the entire lifestyle. To say "we are people just like everyone else" and then to deny that people in the lifestyle struggle with control issues is a contradiction. Everyone else is dealing with the fulfillment of their control needs, why not the people in the lifestyle? I am not judging the people in the lifestyle by pointing out that they use it to fulfill their control needs any more than I would be judging skydivers for using airplanes to fulfill their needs for high speed approaches to planetary surfaces. I don't judge people who need to control others, I judge how they accomplish it. That's where they can cross the line between use and abuse and that is dependent on the sub's perception.

The people I've spoken with who are in the lifestyle say they are there because it gives them a safe way to get their control fix. Are they lying to me? They also say they were not satisfied with relationships that did not offer them the control they desired. Were those lies or did they just not understand? I've watched them struggle with attempts to find compatible subs and when they failed I watched them attempt to control others, just to get what they were missing. I'm standing by what I wrote. You're feeling a need to defend something that wasn't being attacked.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
MistressS
Posted: Monday, May 28, 2012 1:26:24 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 65
1ball wrote:


No. I think I have something to say that others might want to read. I don't think you can presume to speak for the entire lifestyle. To say "we are people just like everyone else" and then to deny that people in the lifestyle struggle with control issues is a contradiction. Everyone else is dealing with the fulfillment of their control needs, why not the people in the lifestyle? I am not judging the people in the lifestyle by pointing out that they use it to fulfill their control needs any more than I would be judging skydivers for using airplanes to fulfill their needs for high speed approaches to planetary surfaces. I don't judge people who need to control others, I judge how they accomplish it. That's where they can cross the line between use and abuse and that is dependent on the sub's perception.

The people I've spoken with who are in the lifestyle say they are there because it gives them a safe way to get their control fix. Are they lying to me? They also say they were not satisfied with relationships that did not offer them the control they desired. Were those lies or did they just not understand? I've watched them struggle with attempts to find compatible subs and when they failed I watched them attempt to control others, just to get what they were missing. I'm standing by what I wrote. You're feeling a need to defend something that wasn't being attacked.


I never said that I alone was speaking for the lifestyle, everything I have said came from talking with many others and doing research on the lifestyle.

I also never said people never want control in their lives, I said that Dom/mes do not NEED it, neither do most people out there, there are those few who really feel they do but as I said before, those who do NEED to control do not look for a Dom/sub relationship, they simply take that control, and abuse those who they try to control. A Dom/mes control comes from the sub giving it to them. So I feel I can say that those in the lifestyle do not NEED that control, or they would not be in the lifestyle.

As for how you say the point it becomes abuse is up to the sub, if someone would beat on their partner whenever they got angry, would you say that was abuse? Of course you would, even if the person being abused said they were ok with it, they say this because they are afraid it will get worse if they say anything. Abuse is abuse, regardless of what the person who is receiving it says.

These people you have asked who have told you they use it to exercise their 'control fix' as you put it, I highly doubt that they meant that they have a 'need' to control, and I doubt what they said iis the same as how you have written it. If they did say that they NEED to control, then I feel very worried for anyone they have a relationship with, and neither myself or any other Dom/me I have ever spoken too would say that someone like that was a Dom/me themselves, they may call themselves a Master/Mistress, but this would be another attempt to be in control, what truly makes someone a Dom/me is that they look after and care for their subs, and in return their subs give control to them, they never take that control without the subs consent.

I also never said that you were attacking the lifestyle, what I said is that what you have said and how you said it is very offensive to many on here that are in the lifestyle.
1ball
Posted: Monday, May 28, 2012 9:11:53 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
MistressS wrote:


I never said that I alone was speaking for the lifestyle,.


What you never said contradicts the way you act.

Quote:
I also never said people never want control in their lives, I said that Dom/mes do not NEED it, neither do most people out there, there are those few who really feel they do but as I said before, those who do NEED to control do not look for a Dom/sub relationship, they simply take that control, and abuse those who they try to control..


You're stumbling over the word need. They don't need the way we need air or water, but they need the way that people mean when they say they need love. Technically speaking, nobody needs love, but if their happiness depends on it, it's perfectly acceptable to say they need it.

Quote:
As for how you say the point it becomes abuse is up to the sub, if someone would beat on their partner whenever they got angry, Would you say that was abuse? Of course you would, even if the person being abused said they were ok with it, they say this because they are afraid it will get worse if they say anything. Abuse is abuse, regardless of what the person who is receiving it says.


It's not up to what the sub says. It's up to what the sub believes. If the sub believes they deserve it, the sub has drawn the use-abuse line beyond it. We can look from the outside and say it's abuse, but if we did something about that, we would be taking control away from the sub. That seems controlling to me.

Quote:
These people you have asked who have told you they use it to exercise their 'control fix' as you put it, I highly doubt that they meant that they have a 'need' to control, and I doubt what they said iis the same as how you have written it.


You can doubt all you want. They said it as if their happiness depends on being able to control others. They struggled to exercise enough self-control to not overcontrol their subs and lose them. They provided enough care to keep their subs so they could continue controlling them. They took advantage of the sub's needs and the sub took advantage of theirs. If a sub required too much care and offered too little control, they would look for another sub. You can argue all you want that this is not "NEED", but it looks like "required for happiness" to me.

Quote:
I also never said that you were attacking the lifestyle, what I said is that what you have said and how you said it is very offensive to many on here that are in the lifestyle.


I guess I don't worry all that much about offending those who might be using offense as an excuse for attempting to control away an unpopular viewpoint. I'm calling it like I see it and I see people pursuing happiness by attempting to get their control needs fulfilled, not just in the lifestyle, but in humanity in general. I've offered that as an explanation for why Doms might overcontrol and why subs might not mind rules that others would not tolerate. I have not judged the people in the lifestyle as being inferior to people in general. I commend them for finding safe and mutually acceptable outlets for their urges.


My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
MistressS
Posted: Monday, May 28, 2012 10:51:25 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 65
1ball wrote:

snip


At no point have I acted like I alone speak for the lifestyle, everything I have said has also been said by many others I have talked to, I simply have written them down in response to you.

All off your posts have used the word 'need' in the sense that they need control in the same way they need air or water, if you have not meant it this way, then your posts have made it seem you do, and again, many agree with me on that.

Yet again I'll say, abuse is abuse, it doe not matter if a sub feels they deserve that abuse, it is still abusive and no Dom/me should be abusing anyone, if they do then they are not a Dom/me, simply an abuser.

If these people you have talked to really feel they need so much control to be happy, I strongly advise that they seek help for that, people who need something that much to be happy will become forceful in their search for it and they will need more and more of it as time goes on to stay happy, and they will end up hurting those around them. As I said in one of my first posts, Dom/mes enjoy being in control, it is not necessary for their happiness.

My original post was that I felt you would offend many on the site with what you said, clearly you don't care about this, and you are not going to try to understand the lifestyle. You can say all you want that your posts were not aimed at people in the lifestyle, but this is a forum topic about the lifestyle, of course it is going to be interpreted that you are talking about it. I have never said that there are not those who feel they need control, there are, but there are very few, and those who do believe they need control will always end up abusing people to get that control.

I am not wanting to control what you think, you can believe whatever you want, I asked you to stop, or re word your posts because it has hurt and offended many on those site who are in the lifestyle, and it is because of posts like yours that people get the wrong idea about the lifestyle. Think what ever you want, but leave people who are genuinely interested in the lifestyle to find out about it without their ideas being corrupted by what you are saying, since you have no experience in it and according to what you have just said, were not even talking about in the first place.

Now, again can we please stop with this argument.
MoonlightSerenity
Posted: Monday, May 28, 2012 11:14:11 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/7/2012
Posts: 854
Location: United Kingdom
In response to 1ball I will say that as a submissive I feel no "need" as such to be dominated. Yes some of us do need to be looked after and be kept to some rules to keep us in line. But our Dom/mes just want to look out for us. And are not dominant all the time in some relationships, for people like me don't need to be controlled all the time. We can think for ourselves don'tcha know?

To think that we just need someone to think for us, which is what your implying, is just not true. Like I said, we can think for ourselves and we can leave our Dom/me if we feel that they are getting too abusive and such.

People like me need stability in their lives, not all subs need this, but for various reasons me, and others like me do. For this we can go to our Dom/me for help, as or most of us they are seen, not only as someone listen to, but someone we respect and trust. And more often than not, we love them and we try to care for them when they cannot for us.

Our Dom/mes are our pillars, they look after us and help us and keep us safe. In return we give our submission, and sometimes our love to them. A lot of us NEVER "need" to feel this, and a lot of us love our Dom/mes and would be happy with love and no dominance, but we have the dominance over us and we have a choice. Nearly all of us have the ability to say no to our Dom/me if things get out of line, and we all have the choice to turn down Dom/me who want to control us for various reasons. Most of us feel no "need" to say yes or to do things were not comfortable with just because someone told us to. And if you don't understand that we don't have this "need" then you need to look inside yourself and wonder what the fuck your doing spouting about shit you don't know about.

And get out of the little porn fantasy, and get into real life.

Teased and Tormented -My very first story and competition entry is now up!
1ball
Posted: Monday, May 28, 2012 5:54:44 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
MistressS wrote:

At no point have I acted like I alone speak for the lifestyle,


I disagree.

Quote:
All off your posts have used the word 'need' in the sense that they need control in the same way they need air or water,


On the contrary, I have made it clear all along that I am talking about emotional need and psychological addiction as opposed to physical need and addiction. I have explained that if this need is not fulfilled, it will result in self-destructive behavior, not physical injury.

Quote:
Yet again I'll say, abuse is abuse, it doe not matter if a sub feels they deserve that abuse, it is still abusive and no Dom/me should be abusing anyone, if they do then they are not a Dom/me, simply an abuser.


Speaking for the entire lifestyle again? A torturer will rarely define torture to include his behavior. But a torturer will do the same things that some people in the lifestyle do. Does that make him not an abuser? Doesn't the answer lie in the consent of the used/abused?

Quote:
If these people you have talked to really feel they need so much control to be happy, I strongly advise that they seek help for that, people who need something that much to be happy will become forceful in their search for it and they will need more and more of it as time goes on to stay happy, and they will end up hurting those around them. As I said in one of my first posts, Dom/mes enjoy being in control, it is not necessary for their happiness.


Do you even know what the SM in BDSM stands for? I clearly do. You seem to want to sweep it under the rug.

Quote:
I have never said that there are not those who feel they need control, there are, but there are very few, and those who do believe they need control will always end up abusing people to get that control.


It must be interesting to live in a world with no gray areas. The people I spoke of did not escalate. One of them matured out of the need to control others. At least that's how he perceived it. The others, to my knowledge, have only mellowed as they aged.

Quote:
I am not wanting to control what you think,


Only what I do?

Quote:
Now, again can we please stop with this argument.


Am I holding a gun to your head to compel participation? You are free to stop at any time. All that requires is a demonstration of self-control.


My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
MistressS
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 3:09:20 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 65
1ball wrote:

snip,


If I have made it appear like that, and I'm told by many others that I haven't, then I apologize.

If you had made it clear then you would not have offended as many as you have, so it seems clear that people think you are talking about a physical need, that was the original point of my posts.

I do not speak for the lifestyle, if you would read what I have said before, I am telling you what many others have said to me as well, I just happen to be the one posting it here.

To answer your question, I am well aware of what the SM stands for, and no, I do not want to hide it.Personally I am not into that side of BDSM, but as I see it, those who are are always close to crossing the line where it becomes abuse, I wont deny that there are some who do cross that line, but when they do they cease to be a Dom/me. (Not my own words, I was told this by someone who is trained in the SM side of BDSM, and who has trained Dom/mes for several years).

I have never told you what to do, only asked, and hoped that you might see that your posts have offended people. If what you have said is true, then what you are trying to say has seemed like something else, and what it looks like to others is offensive.

At this point it is clear that you are not going to stop, and neither will I since I wont stand back while someone posts things that (seems to) be aimed at and offend people in the lifestyle. Either way I have asked for this thread to be locked, or for our posts to be deleted as they are not relevant to the thread, as it is the only way this will stop.
clum
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 3:30:44 AM

Rank: Clumeleon
Moderator

Joined: 5/13/2011
Posts: 5,244
Location: Kirkcaldy, United Kingdom
Shylass wrote:
Blimey. Sorry, I didn't mean to create any aggro. Embarassed


It seems to be following you about these days. Just about every thread your start turns into drama (always nothing to do with you).

She Just Wants To Be

Third place entry in the Toy With Me competition.
Shylass
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:08:55 AM

Rank: Gingerbread Lover

Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 3,660
Location: Trumpton, United Kingdom
clum wrote:


It seems to be following you about these days. Just about every thread your start turns into drama (always nothing to do with you).









I also have a lot of reading to catch up on.




Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet.

***
********************************CLICK THE BANNERS TO BUY THESE WILLY-STIFFENING BOOKS!********************************
1ball
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 8:27:33 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
MistressS wrote:


If I have made it appear like that, and I'm told by many others that I haven't, then I apologize.


I am sorry you misinterpreted and felt the need to pretend that offense gives you the authority to attempt to suppress the ideas of others.


My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
MistressS
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 9:09:11 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 65
1ball wrote:


I am sorry you misinterpreted and felt the need to pretend that offense gives you the authority to attempt to suppress the ideas of others.


Ok, I am really tired of this now, I have tried to be civil about this, and as I said, I have never tried to make you change what you think. I merely stated that it has offended many and have defended myself and those in the lifestyle from what seems like a verbal attack on us by this point.
Clearly you are just trying to goad me now. I have said what I will in response to your original points, I'm not going to continue this further. I'd appreciate if you don't either.
Pixie
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 9:18:37 AM

Rank: Flutterby Pharie

Joined: 9/27/2007
Posts: 5,980
Location: Never, Never Land, United States
MistressS and 1ball I suggest that you both try to stay out of each others way. I see no reason at all to close this topic, as it is an interesting one. Myself along with several members of the Mod Squad have looked it over and they see no reason at all to close it. Unless the OP (Shylass) wants it closed, it will remain up for viewing and further replies. Thanks.

♥ Listen, touch, and look around in the air and on the ground. If you watch all nature's things, you might just see a fairy's wings. ♥
1ball
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 9:20:22 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
MistressS wrote:


Ok, I am really tired of this now, I have tried to be civil about this, and as I said, I have never tried to make you change what you think. I merely stated that it has offended many and have defended myself and those in the lifestyle from what seems like a verbal attack on us by this point.
Clearly you are just trying to goad me now. I have said what I will in response to your original points, I'm not going to continue this further. I'd appreciate if you don't either.


The polite option would have been to ask for clarification, rather than playing the offense card over and over and over. You may stop trying to control me now.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
1ball
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 9:30:11 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
Pixie wrote:
MistressS and 1ball I suggest that you both try to stay out of each others way.


Noted. And thank you for your patience.


My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 9:54:18 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 671,889
I wasnt going to post on this thread because it really hasnt followed the subject question, but I am offended about the "need to control" statement, in My opinion Dominates that have been trained, or have researched and learned about the lifestyle are not in it to control someone, They are practicing and or living it because They have found a way and a common group of people who share the same interest. Again its My opinion, but those that do use the practices of BDSM to get their "control fix" may be harming themselves and others by doing it. But, there are those that are Sadist and Masochist who feel the need to control or be controlled, but the ones that enjoy this are not following the true meaning of it, as with all the meanings of the acronym BDSM it is not about controlling or being controlled, its about trust and having total trust in another, bondage, discipline, sadism, and masochism and the ways they are used is the Way to achieve this trust for both the Dominate and the submissive.
Michael
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:33:58 AM

Rank: Author

Joined: 10/22/2011
Posts: 2,005
Location: Somewhere with Sun and Sea, United States
I have read these post, as well as BDSM 101 and other informative posts regarding BDSM; yet I still question aspects of the lifestyle, from the outside looking in.

To be generally considered a BDSM lifestyle , must it be based upon some standardized set of rules? Or, are the participants free to create their own lifestyle version that they pick and choose aspects, such a collaring, whips, part-time verses full-time, etc?

Is punishment/pain a part of the lifestyle? I understood Mistress S to say it is not only about pain, that pain is only used by a minority; and Sprite to say that it is not about pain. I believe they were referring to physical pain (please correct me if I misunderstood); but what about the pain felt by depravation or punishment by denial? This can cause greater distress then simple physical pain. Is pain or punishment in the BDSM codex for teaching, or is this an issue that is decided within individual relationships?

I apologize if my next question is considered inflammatory by some, but...
The surrender of will to the Dom is a decision made by the Sub, and yet following the orders of the Dom remains within the control of the Sub, thus would it not follow that the Sub retains the power in this equation? The Sub can walk out at any moment leaving the Dom as a powerless Puppet King. What mechanism in the relationship prevents this, trust? Or do I misunderstand this basic concept of the relationship?





sprite
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:49:42 AM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 16,617
Location: My Tower, United States
FtLMale wrote:
I have read these post, as well as BDSM 101 and other informative posts regarding BDSM; yet I still question aspects of the lifestyle, from the outside looking in.

To be generally considered a BDSM lifestyle , must it be based upon some standardized set of rules? Or, are the participants free to create their own lifestyle version that they pick and choose aspects, such a collaring, whips, part-time verses full-time, etc?

Is punishment/pain a part of the lifestyle? I understood Mistress S to say it is not only about pain, that pain is only used by a minority; and Sprite to say that it is not about pain. I believe they were referring to physical pain (please correct me if I misunderstood); but what about the pain felt by depravation or punishment by denial? This can cause greater distress then simple physical pain. Is pain or punishment in the BDSM codex for teaching, or is this an issue that is decided within individual relationships?

I apologize if my next question is considered inflammatory by some, but...
The surrender of will to the Dom is a decision made by the Sub, and yet following the orders of the Dom remains within the control of the Sub, thus would it not follow that the Sub retains the power in this equation? The Sub can walk out at any moment leaving the Dom as a powerless Puppet King. What mechanism in the relationship prevents this, trust? Or do I misunderstand this basic concept of the relationship?





i can, obviously, only talk about my experiences, both good and bad. btw, while being into bdsm i don't consider myself part of the 'lifestyle' it's not a 24/7 thing for me - when i am with my Mistress, i am totally devoted and into it, but it doesn't bleed over into ALL aspects of my life (some, though, it does, and it's helpful in my every day living - it keeps me focused and organized - it's a positive influence on me).

So, that all being said, bdsm is consensual. i consent to give up my power, to put my welfare and my needs into the hands of someone i trust. i actually enjoy physical pain, and we make that part of our play. as for psychological pain, yes, a bad Dom/me could submit their sub to harm that way, just like a part partner in a non bdsm relationship could. a good one doesn't. One VERY IMPORTANT thing to remember. a sub, that personality type usually wants to be punished for stepping outside the bounds - it's the same as apologizing and having it accepted. i know that, when i mess up, i feel pretty bad, and when i am punished, i feel forgiven. it's not all that different from any other relationship save that the method are different - instead of getting a hug i have to stand in the corner with my nose pressed against the wall and think about what i did - once the punishment is over i get that hug and all is right in my world. i feel absolved. i feel good, i feel loved, i feel special that my Mistress cares enough about me to punish me, because i KNOW it's not something that she enjoys doing either.

hope that helps a bit? i can expand if need be :)

Live, love, laugh.
Swollen
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:26:21 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 5/27/2010
Posts: 1,017
Location: United Kingdom
I've followed this thread with interest, and i've indeed tried to get a grip with the whole BDSM lifestyle, and what it means.

So for what it's worth, here's my opinion. As human beings we crave affection and love - and invariably most of us want to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh also. So what does it really matter how we 'get off' or seek out that 'love and affection' we require in our lives. Isn't the whole BDSM scene just an another method of 'getting off' and feeling wanted.

We are all different, doms, subs, lesbians, gays, cross-dressers, trannys etc etc - and frankly, when you consider all-things told, the BDSM lifestyle isn't actually that extreme.

Each to their own, live and let live - who cares!


Michael
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:33:06 AM

Rank: Author

Joined: 10/22/2011
Posts: 2,005
Location: Somewhere with Sun and Sea, United States
sprite wrote:


i can, obviously, only talk about my experiences, both good and bad. btw, while being into bdsm i don't consider myself part of the 'lifestyle' it's not a 24/7 thing for me - when i am with my Mistress, i am totally devoted and into it, but it doesn't bleed over into ALL aspects of my life (some, though, it does, and it's helpful in my every day living - it keeps me focused and organized - it's a positive influence on me).

So, that all being said, bdsm is consensual. i consent to give up my power, to put my welfare and my needs into the hands of someone i trust. i actually enjoy physical pain, and we make that part of our play. as for psychological pain, yes, a bad Dom/me could submit their sub to harm that way, just like a part partner in a non bdsm relationship could. a good one doesn't. One VERY IMPORTANT thing to remember. a sub, that personality type usually wants to be punished for stepping outside the bounds - it's the same as apologizing and having it accepted. i know that, when i mess up, i feel pretty bad, and when i am punished, i feel forgiven. it's not all that different from any other relationship save that the method are different - instead of getting a hug i have to stand in the corner with my nose pressed against the wall and think about what i did - once the punishment is over i get that hug and all is right in my world. i feel absolved. i feel good, i feel loved, i feel special that my Mistress cares enough about me to punish me, because i KNOW it's not something that she enjoys doing either.

hope that helps a bit? i can expand if need be :)


Sprite, thanks for your reply...
So you consider your relationship to be defined by the BDSM aspect, yet built upon your love and trust for each other; really much the same as any relationship?
I also gather that it is the emotional commitment you have made to the relationship that is the glue that motivates you to follow the commands, even the ones you do not enjoy.

Unlike children who will challenge authority to find the limits, you already know them and will break rules to invoke punishment as you relish the absolution your Mistress grants you as well as the love she displays in punishing you.

May I ask, if your enjoyment of physical pain is sexually based, emotional or other?

I suspect that you feel that much of your relationship is unique and you do not choose to be defined by generalizations or pre-defined role models.

Hopefully I did understand correctly.





Shylass
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:44:08 AM

Rank: Gingerbread Lover

Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 3,660
Location: Trumpton, United Kingdom
I can't deal with this right now, sorry. Mods have free rein to do what they feel is best for the site, taking into consideration any PMs that may have been swapped.

Thank you, FtLMale, you have been able to ask, as far as I am currently able to understand, things that I would like to know but couldn't put into words.

Thank you to those who have contributed. Sorry for currently bowing out. If the thread continues, I will read and ponder when I am more able. Sorry.


Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet.

***
********************************CLICK THE BANNERS TO BUY THESE WILLY-STIFFENING BOOKS!********************************
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 12:11:27 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 16,617
Location: My Tower, United States
FtLMale wrote:


Sprite, thanks for your reply...
So you consider your relationship to be defined by the BDSM aspect, yet built upon your love and trust for each other; really much the same as any relationship?
I also gather that it is the emotional commitment you have made to the relationship that is the glue that motivates you to follow the commands, even the ones you do not enjoy.

Unlike children who will challenge authority to find the limits, you already know them and will break rules to invoke punishment as you relish the absolution your Mistress grants you as well as the love she displays in punishing you.

May I ask, if your enjoyment of physical pain is sexually based, emotional or other?

I suspect that you feel that much of your relationship is unique and you do not choose to be defined by generalizations or pre-defined role models.

Hopefully I did understand correctly.





my pleasure - i do get that bdsm is sort of weird to people, so i am doing my best to un-weird it a little? LOL

ok. my relationship with my Mistress is based upon bdsm and friendship. my relationship with my wife is based upon love and we incorporate bdsm play into it because i really enjoy bdsm play and she is comfortable enough to indulge me (and gets into it as well, as long as she doesn't feel like she HAS to go there 24/7). in all respects, really, we're a normal couple.

That said, like i mentioned, i have a Mistress. that's a little different. our interactions are based on bdsm. yes, i trust her, i like her, i enjoy being around her as a person, but first and foremost, i am a sub (or actually, her Kitty) and i tailor my actions such - i think that most of you, if you were to watch us, would be surprised - my head space is a little different, and that side of me comes out to play in ways it doesn't on these forums. it's not me being someone else, btw, it's me letting that girl out of the cage in an enviornment where i feel SAFE with someone who has earned the trust needed to do so.

and yes, if i didn't like these two women, didn't have an emotional involvement with them, i wouldn't be practicing bdsm with them - that may not be true for others, but for me, it is ESSENTIAL that i have a bond. both relationships with regard to bdsm were formed before we got into the kinky stuff. :)

oh, punishments. yes, unlike children, i am aware of the rules, and aware of when i break them, and aware of the consequence and accept them. that doesn't mean i don't break them from time to time. i would like to make it clear that i do NOT break rules on PURPOSE simply for attention or because i want to be punished. never. i do do it because i just get involved and forget or get careless. it's never intentional. i DO know subs that do that, but i'm not one of them - and, quite honestly, when i do, and it's pointed out, i feel badly NOT because i will be punished, but because i broke a rule and (ok, this is complicated to explain) but basically, i disappointed my Mistress, made her do something she doesn't enjoy (punish me), and put a halt to 'play time'.

my 'need' for physical pain. wow. ok. that's complicated as well - i'm not sure how big a secret it is that i was in at least one physically abusive relationship. sadly, part of that fed my masochistic tendencies. i don't know what it feeds - i'd have to say both physical and emotional needs. that said, my wife tempers it by 'dishing out' pan in small doses, she controls it, giving me what she is comfortable with, fulfilling what i need, and it's usually enough to calm that crazy NEED in me. it's scary, i'll be honest about that, but we have found what i believe to be a healthy way to deal with it.

also, online play works, where i can be 'hurt' with suffering actual physical damage, it's not quite the same, but close enough to be satisfying? i hope that sheds light - i KNOW that unless you have the same 'needs' you won't get it - i accept that.



Live, love, laugh.
1ball
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:49:08 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
I feel compelled to say that I am offended by how easily some people are offended and disturbed by how readily some people succumb to an impulse to censor. That is an ugly, ugly desire. There are no dangerous ideas, that need to be suppressed. Potentially dangerous ideas need to be exposed so that salvo after salvo can be fired at them to see how well they hold up.

But the idea that Doms and subs are driven by cravings that we loosely call addictions or needs is not a dangerous idea. Much of human behavior is centered around the satisfaction of cravings or the fulfillment of emotional needs. We all have "dark" desires and the BDSM lifestyle offers a way to channel some of those into safe and mutually consensual outlets. But there is also a "naughty" aspect to the lifestyle that attracts people who act as if they are sadists or masochists. They pretend to be satisfying a desire to dominate or submit while they are actually satisfying some other craving by going through the motions of role play. There is nothing wrong with this, but it also does not make these people automatically better than those who use the lifestyle to directly satisfy their dark desires. How could it? They are doing the same things. And then there are the people who believe they are just actors playing a role and pretend to be, but who just don't want to admit to themselves that they are driven by the dark desires.

All three groups, the actors, the sadists and masochists who aren't in denial, and the sadists and masochists who are in denial are all being very human in that they are engaging in impulsive and compulsive behavior for the satisfaction of cravings. And it's all good as long as it's all consentual. It's just a little difficult to understand for someone whose desires (dark or otherwise) don't include dominant or submissive cravings. That is a group that will be underepresented in the BDSM lifestyle, because the satisfaction of their cravings (with respect to other people) requires an absense of all but self-control. This group is likewise, hard to understand by those whose cravings require others with some element of control in the relationship. There is no need for anybody to be offended by any of that. It is just recognition that these groups exist.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:00:25 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 16,617
Location: My Tower, United States
1ball wrote:
I feel compelled to say that I am offended by how easily some people are offended


umm... you should re-read that bit and see how funny it sounds - would you say you're easily offended? sorry, but i couldn't resist. *giggles and runs*

Live, love, laugh.
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