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latinfoxy
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:33:30 PM

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Posts: 818
Location: Here
MrNudiePants wrote:
Jebru wrote:


Read my posts. I never said you called him a murderer. I said you intentionally used examples which brought up negative connotations and associations in people's minds, but were irrelevant to Mr. Aguirre. I know that you are smart enough to have not done this by accident, which is why I call you on it. As for whether I'm a liar, I think the people of lush have enough intelligence to see why I'm saying what I'm saying, and even if they don't agree with my interpretation of it.

But if you have to resort to calling me a liar to win this, that's cool.


But the examples I used were relevant to this incident. Rude behavior is negative both in intent and in result. Sometimes people don't intend to be rude, but their behavior still can be seen as such. Not being a mind reader, I can't be absolutely certain of Mr. Aguirre's motives, but in my opinion his actions were just as deliberate as the Senator's, with the same intent - to raise awareness of an issue through any means necessary. He may have seen his motives as pure - but then again, so did Hitler. And no, I'm not likening Aguirre to Hitler.


If i may say so with your example you just did exactly what Aguirre was trying to do just get the shock value out of the message you were trying to make. So how is it different you choosing controversial examples (you are smart enough to know that that examples were gonna be controversial) and Aguirre speaking in Spanish to create controversy??
MrNudiePants
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:13:28 PM

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Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
latinfoxy wrote:
If i may say so with your example you just did exactly what Aguirre was trying to do just get the shock value out of the message you were trying to make. So how is it different you choosing controversial examples (you are smart enough to know that that examples were gonna be controversial) and Aguirre speaking in Spanish to create controversy??


Because I'm doing it here, My Love, where nobody but us even gives a crap. I'm not doing it in front of a Senate Committee, where it's broadcast to everyone with cable TV.
latinfoxy
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:34:06 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 818
Location: Here
MrNudiePants wrote:
latinfoxy wrote:
If i may say so with your example you just did exactly what Aguirre was trying to do just get the shock value out of the message you were trying to make. So how is it different you choosing controversial examples (you are smart enough to know that that examples were gonna be controversial) and Aguirre speaking in Spanish to create controversy??


Because I'm doing it here, My Love, where nobody but us even gives a crap. I'm not doing it in front of a Senate Committee, where it's broadcast to everyone with cable TV.


Isnt that double standard? Something its ok to be done some place but not in another? Isnt it rude no matter where you do it? so lets just say i kill a bum that has no family and nobody cares or would cry for and i kill you (have family and people care about) its my action more horrible because i kill you or is it as reprehensible in both cases?
MrNudiePants
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 3:41:16 PM

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Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
latinfoxy wrote:
MrNudiePants wrote:
latinfoxy wrote:
If i may say so with your example you just did exactly what Aguirre was trying to do just get the shock value out of the message you were trying to make. So how is it different you choosing controversial examples (you are smart enough to know that that examples were gonna be controversial) and Aguirre speaking in Spanish to create controversy??


Because I'm doing it here, My Love, where nobody but us even gives a crap. I'm not doing it in front of a Senate Committee, where it's broadcast to everyone with cable TV.


Isnt that double standard? Something its ok to be done some place but not in another? Isnt it rude no matter where you do it? so lets just say i kill a bum that has no family and nobody cares or would cry for and i kill you (have family and people care about) its my action more horrible because i kill you or is it as reprehensible in both cases?


There's a big difference between rudeness and murder. My actions here are like farting in church. Sure, some people may care, and they might even get pissed off at me. But it's not going to change the televangelist industry a whit.

(P.S. Now who is using an extreme example to try and prove a point? If I were Jebru, I'd get all butthurt and claim that you're putting me on the same moral plain as a murderer...)
latinfoxy
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:16:09 PM

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Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 818
Location: Here
MrNudiePants wrote:
latinfoxy wrote:
MrNudiePants wrote:
latinfoxy wrote:
If i may say so with your example you just did exactly what Aguirre was trying to do just get the shock value out of the message you were trying to make. So how is it different you choosing controversial examples (you are smart enough to know that that examples were gonna be controversial) and Aguirre speaking in Spanish to create controversy??


Because I'm doing it here, My Love, where nobody but us even gives a crap. I'm not doing it in front of a Senate Committee, where it's broadcast to everyone with cable TV.


Isnt that double standard? Something its ok to be done some place but not in another? Isnt it rude no matter where you do it? so lets just say i kill a bum that has no family and nobody cares or would cry for and i kill you (have family and people care about) its my action more horrible because i kill you or is it as reprehensible in both cases?


There's a big difference between rudeness and murder. My actions here are like farting in church. Sure, some people may care, and they might even get pissed off at me. But it's not going to change the televangelist industry a whit.

(P.S. Now who is using an extreme example to try and prove a point? If I were Jebru, I'd get all butthurt and claim that you're putting me on the same moral plain as a murderer...)


Well i thought an extreme example was the way to get your attention because its obvious you like them so much and defend them so well!!

Yes there is a big difference between rudeness and murder the same way theres a big difference between talking in a political meeting thru a translator and dressing up as KKK on a black convention!
Rembacher
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:19:15 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,107
MrNudiePants wrote:
latinfoxy wrote:
MrNudiePants wrote:
latinfoxy wrote:
If i may say so with your example you just did exactly what Aguirre was trying to do just get the shock value out of the message you were trying to make. So how is it different you choosing controversial examples (you are smart enough to know that that examples were gonna be controversial) and Aguirre speaking in Spanish to create controversy??


Because I'm doing it here, My Love, where nobody but us even gives a crap. I'm not doing it in front of a Senate Committee, where it's broadcast to everyone with cable TV.


Isnt that double standard? Something its ok to be done some place but not in another? Isnt it rude no matter where you do it? so lets just say i kill a bum that has no family and nobody cares or would cry for and i kill you (have family and people care about) its my action more horrible because i kill you or is it as reprehensible in both cases?


There's a big difference between rudeness and murder. My actions here are like farting in church. Sure, some people may care, and they might even get pissed off at me. But it's not going to change the televangelist industry a whit.

(P.S. Now who is using an extreme example to try and prove a point? If I were Jebru, I'd get all butthurt and claim that you're putting me on the same moral plain as a murderer...)


Lol. Ok, I take it back, maybe you aren't smart enough to see what you are doing. First off, in Foxy's example, SHE was the murderer, not you. Secondly, she used matching parallels, paralleling your rudeness to Mr Aguirre's; and then when you made the statement that the people of lush's opinions don't matter (nice subtle shot by the way) so therefore you weren't being rude; she pointed out how ludicrous that is by comparing a murder to a murder. Identical comparisons with the same perpetrator in both. (Herself) In her comparison, the only thing that changed was the audience (the people who care or don't care about the murder), but since you can't logically defend your argument, you resort to attacking your opponent. Just to make it clear to you again, her point was that the action was either rude or it wasn't. The number or importance of the people offended doesn't change that.

MrNudiePants
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:36:50 PM

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Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
Jebru wrote:
MrNudiePants wrote:
latinfoxy wrote:
MrNudiePants wrote:
latinfoxy wrote:
If i may say so with your example you just did exactly what Aguirre was trying to do just get the shock value out of the message you were trying to make. So how is it different you choosing controversial examples (you are smart enough to know that that examples were gonna be controversial) and Aguirre speaking in Spanish to create controversy??


Because I'm doing it here, My Love, where nobody but us even gives a crap. I'm not doing it in front of a Senate Committee, where it's broadcast to everyone with cable TV.


Isnt that double standard? Something its ok to be done some place but not in another? Isnt it rude no matter where you do it? so lets just say i kill a bum that has no family and nobody cares or would cry for and i kill you (have family and people care about) its my action more horrible because i kill you or is it as reprehensible in both cases?


There's a big difference between rudeness and murder. My actions here are like farting in church. Sure, some people may care, and they might even get pissed off at me. But it's not going to change the televangelist industry a whit.

(P.S. Now who is using an extreme example to try and prove a point? If I were Jebru, I'd get all butthurt and claim that you're putting me on the same moral plain as a murderer...)


Lol. Ok, I take it back, maybe you aren't smart enough to see what you are doing. First off, in Foxy's example, SHE was the murderer, not you. Secondly, she used matching parallels, paralleling your rudeness to Mr Aguirre's; and then when you made the statement that the people of lush's opinions don't matter (nice subtle shot by the way) so therefore you weren't being rude; she pointed out how ludicrous that is by comparing a murder to a murder. Identical comparisons with the same perpetrator in both. (Herself) In her comparison, the only thing that changed was the audience (the people who care or don't care about the murder), but since you can't logically defend your argument, you resort to attacking your opponent. Just to make it clear to you again, her point was that the action was either rude or it wasn't. The number or importance of the people offended doesn't change that.



Reading Is Fundamental, Jeb.

1. I never said she was calling me a murderer.
2. I never said "the people of lush's opinions don't matter."
3. I never attacked Foxy. I hold her in the highest regard. You're the one attacking me, in your very first sentence.

What I did say was that while my posts here may be rude (I'm not saying they are, just that others may view them as such), and some people may get pissed off at me for them, this is not the same kind of stage as Senate Committee Hearing Chambers are. The only people that can get pissed off here are fellow Lushies. I'd be hard pressed to piss off large blocks of Texas voters with my drivel. Therefore, my little ravings are of little importance, when compared to the importance of the actions of Mr Aguirre (and the good Senator from Texas).

My last sentence was a jab at you saying that you would be all upset because you misunderstood my post. Which you did. So... you did.


MrNudiePants
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:40:38 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
latinfoxy wrote:
MrNudiePants wrote:
latinfoxy wrote:
MrNudiePants wrote:
latinfoxy wrote:
If i may say so with your example you just did exactly what Aguirre was trying to do just get the shock value out of the message you were trying to make. So how is it different you choosing controversial examples (you are smart enough to know that that examples were gonna be controversial) and Aguirre speaking in Spanish to create controversy??


Because I'm doing it here, My Love, where nobody but us even gives a crap. I'm not doing it in front of a Senate Committee, where it's broadcast to everyone with cable TV.


Isnt that double standard? Something its ok to be done some place but not in another? Isnt it rude no matter where you do it? so lets just say i kill a bum that has no family and nobody cares or would cry for and i kill you (have family and people care about) its my action more horrible because i kill you or is it as reprehensible in both cases?


There's a big difference between rudeness and murder. My actions here are like farting in church. Sure, some people may care, and they might even get pissed off at me. But it's not going to change the televangelist industry a whit.

(P.S. Now who is using an extreme example to try and prove a point? If I were Jebru, I'd get all butthurt and claim that you're putting me on the same moral plain as a murderer...)


Well i thought an extreme example was the way to get your attention because its obvious you like them so much and defend them so well!!

Yes there is a big difference between rudeness and murder the same way theres a big difference between talking in a political meeting thru a translator and dressing up as KKK on a black convention!


Sure, but you have to keep the crimes in the same family at least. You can't say "murder is wrong no matter who gets killed, so being rude is wrong no matter what the venue". Well you can, but it doesn't make any sense. Murder is horrible no matter who gets killed. Me possibly being rude here isn't going to affect the political arena in Texas a bit.
latinfoxy
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:53:29 PM

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Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 818
Location: Here
MrNudiePants wrote:

Sure, but you have to keep the crimes in the same family at least. You can't say "murder is wrong no matter who gets killed, so being rude is wrong no matter what the venue". Well you can, but it doesn't make any sense. Murder is horrible no matter who gets killed. Me possibly being rude here isn't going to affect the political arena in Texas a bit.


Well then lets just agree to disagree,

btw i was keeping crimes in the same family you were the one that didnt do it. I compare murder with murder you compared dressing as murders to remember a group of ppl the pain this murderers cause to them, to a guy speaking in Spanish on a political convention, one was to cause pain the other was for "shock value" (we cant be sure it was for that, but i agree with you on that point). Theres a say in Spanish that goes lo que es bueno para el pavo es bueno para la pava meaning what is good for the male turkey its good for the female turkey meaning double standards arent good no matter in what case scenario you are at.

but go ahead spin the ball one more time.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:03:09 PM

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Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
latinfoxy wrote:
MrNudiePants wrote:

Sure, but you have to keep the crimes in the same family at least. You can't say "murder is wrong no matter who gets killed, so being rude is wrong no matter what the venue". Well you can, but it doesn't make any sense. Murder is horrible no matter who gets killed. Me possibly being rude here isn't going to affect the political arena in Texas a bit.


Well then lets just agree to disagree,

btw i was keeping crimes in the same family you were the one that didnt do it. I compare murder with murder you compared dressing as murders to remember a group of ppl the pain this murderers cause to them, to a guy speaking in Spanish on a political convention, one was to cause pain the other was for "shock value" (we cant be sure it was for that, but i agree with you on that point). Theres a say in Spanish that goes lo que es bueno para el pavo es bueno para la pava meaning what is good for the male turkey its good for the female turkey meaning double standards arent good no matter in what case scenario you are at.

but go ahead spin the ball one more time.


Have to disagree with you. You were comparing murder with being rude. You basically said since murder is wrong (whether it's a bum being murdered or me), then being rude is wrong (whether it's here or on the Senate floor).

In my examples, I just used two different examples of how someone could be rude, and compared them to Mr Aguirre's actions. I never compared his actions to murder - you and Jeb are bringing that into it. I realize that we'll have to just agree to disagree, Querida. That's what makes this a great place. We can disagree peacefully, and move on. Well, some of us can, that is. occasion5
Rembacher
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:21:10 PM

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Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,107
Going back to the original question, I think we have to remember that non-verbal communication speaks just as loudly, if not more loudly than verbal communication. And since politics is all about convincing people that your solution is the best, you need to appear confident at all times. That's why an interpreter for an immigrant who is nervous about his English makes sense here. He could have stumbled his way through his point, but he would have looked nervous and unsure of himself. Now, the public, or even the panel he is addressing isn't going to know that this is the first time he's addressed the senate, and doing so in his second tongue makes him nervous. All they are going to see is that he's not speaking with confidence. They are going to think "he doesn't believe in what he's saying. He's not sure of himself." And no matter how logical, how credible, or how great his ideas are, they are going to have a hard time embracing those ideas, because their eyes tell them that he isn't fully embracing them either. By using a translator, he gets to be confident, and his body language doesn't detract from what he is saying.

And that confidence is increasingly important when you are speaking in front of a crowd where simply who you are (an immigrant who prefers to speak another language other than English) is insulting to some; and your opinion, developed through actual work with the people directly affected by this law, is going to be dismissed for that, over anything else.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:42:10 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 700,397
Que?
DirtyMartini
Posted: Monday, June 11, 2012 9:32:16 PM

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 5,851
Location: Right here on Lush Stories..., United States
latinfoxy wrote:
With this comment i am about to make i may angry my fellow Latins over here.... that said i do believe that if you are choosing to live in another country you should learn the language that is speak in that country,


Thank you Mandy...and btw, there are good reasons to learn the language of the country you live in...just sayin'




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elitfromnorth
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:41:46 AM

Rank: Brawling Berserker

Joined: 2/12/2012
Posts: 1,635
Location: Burrowed, Norway
Fun fact; There are several Norwegians who move to Costa Del Sol(The Sunshine Coast) in Spain, either to retire or just because they want a warmer climate. A couple of years ago the party leader of the Norwegian party that's furthest to the right in politics here(that's worth mentioning) made a speech where he said something along these lines:
"Immigrants in Norway should learn Norwegian to handle the job market better. Likewise people in Spain where there are large concentrations of Norwegians should learn Norwegian to communicate with the Norwegians there better."

This is the type of double standard that you'd often find with these people. They're the same people that will go somewhere as tourists and then bitch and complain when every local person isn't fluent in English. It's fucking ridicilous and hypocritical. They don't want a well integrated society. They want what's the most convinient for them.

"It's at that point you realise Lady Luck is actually a hooker, and you're fresh out of cash."
zunndy
Posted: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 9:36:22 PM

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Joined: 5/7/2012
Posts: 1
Location: United States
anyone feel like we have a lot worst problems then this.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 8:27:58 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 700,397
I should think, since he is from Texas, that the interpreter might have rejoined, "Senator, you live in Texas. How is it that you don't speak Spanish?" The arrogance and ignorance of Americans who only speak one language (and that often poorly) never fails to amuse people from other countries who may speak up to seven languages fluently.
Buz
Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2012 9:26:51 AM

Rank: The Linebacker
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Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 8,222
Location: Atlanta, United States
Most nations have an official language. It really simplifies legal matters. Many of those nations also have an official second language.

The USA does not have an official language, though all legal documents, laws, the constitution, etc. are in English. English is the language taught in American public schools. It is a fact that English is the language that completely dominates the USA.

I think that the USA should go ahead and make English the official language. Since Spanish is by far the most widely spoken language after English, it should be made the official second language. Then make sure that Spanish is also taught in schools as a second language. Americans would do better to speak more than one language. However, if you only have one language then English is by far the most beneficial since it is the international language of business.

Many employers now really seek employees that can speak both English and Spanish. It's a good business practice and pays off on the bottom line.

I travel frequently to Europe on business and everyone I encounter speaks English fluently. I must admit my foreign language skills are poor, something I am working on improving. Mastering other languages would be a great financial investment business wise for me. I am all about business and I am 100% a capitalist.

I doubt the Texas politician was a racist at all, just some political grand standing. I know several politicians very well, enough that if I found out that the guy speaking Spanish and the guy asking why he wasn't speaking English, went to dinner and drinks later that evening it would not be a surprise.

WellMadeMale
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 3:29:33 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,531
Location: Cakeland, United States
medicman wrote:
Do you think he he was right for this exchange or is it racist??


I think you are openly racist, Terd Ferguson. As well as a few other nasty things.

I've pretty much ignored this thread since the day you created it, but I'm done shirking my civic responsibility to calling out assholes, racists, bigots and fucktards like you for introducing this shit to my palate.

Since that's what you used to call yourself, that's how I will address you. Your were most correct when you started using Terd as your moniker, years ago.

Incidentally, if I ever saw you in public, I'd probably whip it out and piss on your shoes in public and dare you to take a swing at me for calling you out and for drenching your footwear.

I'd hope that you'd be offended and take a swing. It'd be on and I'd fucking enjoy all 15 seconds of it.


You are one of those 'America-Love It or Leave It' pricks...and I love it when people like you identify yourselves for the rest of us to know. People like you require an attitude adjustment and I know how to accomplish such things.

Ignoring people like you has only emboldened you, nothing else. I'm done with playing nice and pretending you'll fade off into the distance. You need to be shouted down or knocked the fuck out.

I can and will do, either. And this isn't just internet butthurt braggadocio typing.

Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
Jack_42
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 5:24:26 AM

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Location: Prague, Czech Republic
I'm very sorry Mr Columbus a letter of introduction from the queen of Spain is not good enough - no passport no entry. Next.
LadyX
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 7:47:30 AM

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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
Jack_42 wrote:
I'm very sorry Mr Columbus a letter of introduction from the queen of Spain is not good enough - no passport no entry. Next.


LOL. Is that what was said? No wonder his men killed so many, and laid the groundwork to enslave everyone. His feewings were hurt!
Smoothtalkin_wolf
Posted: Friday, June 15, 2012 9:22:25 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 5/31/2012
Posts: 212
Location: Chi-town area, United States
If i were to go to ANY other country in the world I would be expected to learn their culture and their language. Most countries have an official language. Why dont we again? Yes. In my opinion if you are a US citizen you should be made to learn the English language. period.My 2 cents
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