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Girl Denied Highschool Diploma in Oklahoma! Options · View
Nikki703
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:37:58 PM

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Oklahoma high school valedictorian denied diploma for using 'hell' in speech


By NBC News staff

PRAGUE, Okla. – An Oklahoma high school valedictorian who was denied her diploma because she used the world “hell” in her commencement speech doesn’t plan to apologize for her choice of words, her father says.

David Nootbaar said he is furious that Prague High School is withholding his daughter Kaitlin's diploma because of her use of the word during the graduation speech in May. “She has worked so hard to stay at the top of her class and this is not right,” he said. “She earned that diploma. In four years she has never made a B. She got straight A’s and had a 4.0 the whole way through."

School officials declined to comment. "This matter is confidential and we cannot publicly say anything about it," Prague schools Superintendent Rick Martin said in a statement to KFOR-TV in Oklahoma City.

David Nootbaar said his daughter was inspired by the movie “The Twilight Saga: Eclipse" when she wrote the speech. “Her quote was, ‘When she first started school she wanted to be a nurse, then a veterinarian and now that she was getting closer to graduation, people would ask her, what do you want to do and she said ‘How the hell do I know? I’ve changed my mind so many times,’” he said.

He said in the written script she gave to the school she wrote “heck,” but in the moment she said “hell” instead.

During the ceremony, Nootbaar said the audience laughed and she finished her speech to warm applause. She didn’t know there was a problem, he said.

But trouble surfaced when she went to school to pick up her graduation certificate last week, her father said.

“We went to the office and asked for the diploma and the principal said ‘Your diploma is right here but you’re not getting it. Close the door we have a problem,'" Nootbaar said.

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He said the principal told Kaitlin she would have to write an apology letter before he would release the diploma.

Kaitlin doesn’t plan on writing an apology letter because she doesn’t feel she did anything wrong, her father said. He said her family stands behind her decision.

Kaitlin starts college in a few days on a full scholarship.


What the FUCK is wrong with these people!!
lafayettemister
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:46:17 PM

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Typical over reaction by some red tape loving administrator trying to throw his weight around. Hopefully the school board will step in and get the girl her diploma.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Guest
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:16:22 PM

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Was she over 18? There's a time and place for everything. She made a poor choice. I'm sure there were little brothers and sisters and "christians" in the audience and they don't like that language. Withhold the diploma over it? Is that even legal? I think I'd be calling a lawyer on this one. Very publicly calling a lawyer.
Guest
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:26:23 PM

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the administration is over reacting. it's easier to have a "zero tolerance policy" than to exercise judgement over any particular case. lot's less paper work, and then no one get's yelled at for being treated differently. retaining a diploma over a word is the worst i have seen though.



Nikki703
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:28:52 PM

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I dont care if there were 3yo in the audience, she said HELL!! They say hell in church!! There is something seriously wrong with the way some people see things. Just like the guy in Missouri running for senate and his views on rape (A new thread yet to come Im sure). Whats next? Women going to prison for showing their face in public?
Magical_felix
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:32:05 PM

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Just write the fucking letter... Big deal. She knows cussing at school is against the rules. Just write a letter, oh my god.

What are these people's lives like that this is a big deal? Looks like the school is power tripping, the student and her family are seeking attention, and everyone is stupid. What else is new?



Nikki703
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:45:53 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:
Just write the fucking letter... Big deal. She knows cussing at school is against the rules. Just write a letter, oh my god.

What are these people's lives like that this is a big deal? Looks like the school is power tripping, the student and her family are seeking attention, and everyone is stupid. What else is new?


But can you blame her for making a big deal over it? She busts her ass for 4 years do get all A's and then she is denied her diploma because of something so trivial as this. Since when is hell considered cussing?

Im sure that after all this the school will come out and cover their asses and say she isnt being denied the diploma becasue she said HELL. It is becasue when she submitted te speech for approval she wrote "HECK" and she changed it without approval and that violates school policy. Or some BS like that.

What a JOKE!!
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:46:39 PM

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lafayettemister wrote:
Typical over reaction by some red tape loving administrator trying to throw his weight around. Hopefully the school board will step in and get the girl her diploma.


Authoritarian bible thumpers probably rule the roost on that school board, unfortunately. Time to call the ACLU.

Incidentally, I'd have pitched a bitch had I not received my HS diploma the night I graduated, instead of having to go back to the institution months later to retrieve it.

Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
Magical_felix
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 1:55:58 PM

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Nikki703 wrote:


But can you blame her for making a big deal over it? She busts her ass for 4 years do get all A's and then she is denied her diploma because of something so trivial as this. Since when is hell considered cussing?

Im sure that after all this the school will come out and cover their asses and say she isnt being denied the diploma becasue she said HELL. It is becasue when she submitted te speech for approval she wrote "HECK" and she changed it without approval and that violates school policy. Or some BS like that.

What a JOKE!!


Since she has been working hard for 4 years... All the more reason to not jeopardize her achievement. Just write the stupid letter and move on to things that matter. Pick your battles. I mean I have had BS like this thrown at me throughout my life but if I wasted energy over dumbass people like that, I would feel stupid.

I agree that it's a joke. And I also get that hell is hardly a cuss word but rules are rules, if I was the principal I wouldn't care... Until the next kid says ass and then he points at the girl that said hell and asks me why there is a double standard. I can see parents bitching about anything. I can see them bitching about them saying fart and thats not even cussing. So I don't blame the principal for his reaction although I think its stupid. But I think sometimes these simple country asses make decisions based on their community or what they feel is politicly correct. They may not be the smartest amongst us so decisions like this are made.



oldrascal
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 2:59:24 PM

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I agree with Felix. If you stop and fight every little battle you won't have time to fight the big ones when they come along. Let the little minds get their jollies by making stupid arguments and move along.
hamz
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:15:36 PM

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I presume that this happened at a religious school.. if so then the poor girl is paying the price for being enrolled in one! If you (or your parents in this case) choose to be part of a community, then you have to follow the rules until you are there... however foolish they might be!

If in fact this was not a religious school - then this is plain disgusting!!
Nikki703
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:24:25 PM

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hamz wrote:
I presume that this happened at a religious school.. if so then the poor girl is paying the price for being enrolled in one! If you (or your parents in this case) choose to be part of a community, then you have to follow the rules until you are there... however foolish they might be!

If in fact this was not a religious school - then this is plain disgusting!!


PUBLIC SCHOOL
AGreyFoxxx
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:42:41 PM

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That neo-nazi Principal needs to realize that this is the 21st century! I could maybe understand him being upset if she said 'fuck'b but what he's done is just plain stupid! She is absolutely right to stand by what she said and not apologize. Besides, she's going off to college in a couple of days so the piece of paper the asshole is witholding is pretty much useless.
CosmoJones22
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 4:01:20 PM

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So long as her transcripts are released, or have already been released, this is much ado about nothing. The diploma doesn't much matter except to people who don't matter much. Colleges and Universities only concern themselves with transcripts showing those straight A's, not some underwhelming certificate.
Ruthie
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 4:03:37 PM

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What the hell?
Guest
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 4:35:50 PM

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RIDICULOUS
CleverFox
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 4:48:46 PM

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Sometimes you have to fight the little battles before they become big battles. Also, it sounds like she doesn't really need the diploma, she already has a full scholarship. I would tell the principal to kiss my ass.


Go Cosmo!
Buz
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 5:51:28 PM

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That's life! She has to learn sooner or later there are always consequences whether they be frivolous or not. Life is not fair, it will never be fair. You act like a child and you will be treated like a child. I guess they figure she acted like a child and the administration will flex their bureaucratic muscle. Typical government employees. But principals are supposed to be autocratic rules enforcing bureaucratic assholes. It's their job!

If the principal caves in, he'll have this happen over and over again. He should stick to his decision. Besides the girl sounds like a whiny spoiled brat to me. She wants to whine and cry until she gets her way.

Boo hoo!

RumpleForeskin
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 6:45:29 PM

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As usual, there's information missing in this news flash, such as: is it a private or public school, why did she have to go get her diploma after the ceremony, why was her father tagging along, why would a slip-of-the-tongue require a written apology, and to whom?.

All else being equal, I agree with Felix.

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Guest
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 8:08:17 PM

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RumpleForeskin wrote:
As usual, there's information missing in this news flash, such as: is it a private or public school, why did she have to go get her diploma after the ceremony, why was her father tagging along, why would a slip-of-the-tongue require a written apology, and to whom?.

All else being equal, I agree with Felix.

glasses8


most schools don't actually give the diploma out at the cerimony so that students don't take off with the gown that they are wearing. they hand out the little holder but the diploma is held until after the gown turn in. it prevents people from performing last minute shenanigans as well.
TXtabber
Posted: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 7:25:13 PM

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She knew the rules. She decided to live on the edge. Pay the piper. This would just get worse each year. This time it was "hell" and no big deal. What will it be next time? They think, "I've graduated, what can the bastards do to me now?" It's almost to the point of eliminating speeches or video recording them ahead of time.

Graduation is a dignified ceremony. The same goes for the kids that make a big show/act after they get their diploma. THEY live it up, but forget there's someone coming in line right behind them that is now in the shadows of their little show.
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 11:16:12 PM

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I agree that rules are rules, and yes, she needs to write her letter of apology.

But I hope the ridicule that this principal gets is enduring, scathing, and affecting, because it's deserved. What a pompous act; far more so than uttering a minor-league 4-letter word in a speech, by your valedictorian no less.
Rembacher
Posted: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 5:26:26 AM

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I just realized that withholding the diploma wouldn't work at the school I graduated from. We had our graduation ceremony in the fall. Everyone comes back home for the celebration. By that time, you are already attending university, so what who cares if you don't have a piece of paper?
ByronLord
Posted: Friday, August 24, 2012 8:08:08 PM

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Rembacher wrote:
I just realized that withholding the diploma wouldn't work at the school I graduated from. We had our graduation ceremony in the fall. Everyone comes back home for the celebration. By that time, you are already attending university, so what who cares if you don't have a piece of paper?


That is pretty much what is happening. She is going to college on a full scholarship. No college I know of would give a shit about whether she picked up her high school diploma or not. And neither is any employer.

She has earned a valuable lesson here - that the school authorities don't matter.

The people who need to learn a lesson are the school principal and the board. They need their alumni a lot more than their alumni needs them.

ByronLord
Posted: Friday, August 24, 2012 8:25:02 PM

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Buz wrote:
That's life! She has to learn sooner or later there are always consequences whether they be frivolous or not. Life is not fair, it will never be fair. You act like a child and you will be treated like a child. I guess they figure she acted like a child and the administration will flex their bureaucratic muscle. Typical government employees. But principals are supposed to be autocratic rules enforcing bureaucratic assholes. It's their job!

Life is not fair but that does not mean we should surrender to fascists who are on a personal ego trip.

Principals are not meant to be tinpot gods, they are minor civil servants.

There are solutions for that type of behavior. One medium sized lawsuit will pretty much end the career of that principal whether he is in the right or not. He has to go to the school district and explain why he got into the stupid dispute.

Lawsuits are cheap to bring and expensive to defend. At a minimum they force the principal to explain his decision to the county in-house counsel.

Americans are far too deferential to authority.

Guest
Posted: Friday, August 24, 2012 9:18:11 PM

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its fuckin stupid. big deal she said "hell" in her speech
She
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 8:09:56 AM

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Oh, I love it! I would never apologize as well and she didn't curse. Hell is just opposite word of heaven, if I don't say you are stupid as hell; ass is not cursing if I don't say, you smell as your ass, and so on..

And lets say that 'how the hell should I know' is coursing, she is a teen, she made a mistake. Christ, in this world, where everything must be perfect, or less!, Crucifixion is coming right back on track.
Cursing is not appropriate in graduation speech, however she is a teen, and as a human being she is allowed to make mistakes, and for every mistake we make life 'punishes' us with consequences, but denying her diploma is just over the top. If principal would take a word after her and say few things about adult behavior and what is appropriate when talking to masses, would be much better.


Edit: Totally agree with Cheef Pour Wine
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 9:23:26 AM

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LadyX wrote:
I agree that rules are rules, and yes, she needs to write her letter of apology.

But I hope the ridicule that this principal gets is enduring, scathing, and affecting, because it's deserved. What a pompous act; far more so than uttering a minor-league 4-letter word in a speech, by your valedictorian no less.


I'm onboard with this also. Obviously, one of life's lessons is that to proceed through life with fewer problems, you should follow the rules- the laws of the land. If you don't, you wind up in trouble. She should have stuck to her approved script. Since she didn't, she needs some kind of discipline. A stern talking-to perhaps. The principal is just being Cartman, which is a douchebaggy position to take, but one that probably 99% of all high school principals agree with. After all, if you didn't have that "Respect mah authoritay!!!" mentality, you probably wouldn't be a high school principal in the first place.
ramrod32784
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 2:55:14 PM

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One thing I think is funny when they hand her that paper she is considered a semi adult and the school would have no authority over her
WellMadeMale
Posted: Saturday, August 25, 2012 8:36:18 PM

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Location: Cakeland, United States
Buz wrote:
That's life! She has to learn sooner or later there are always consequences whether they be frivolous or not. Life is not fair, it will never be fair. You act like a child and you will be treated like a child. I guess they figure she acted like a child and the administration will flex their bureaucratic muscle. Typical government employees. But principals are supposed to be autocratic rules enforcing bureaucratic assholes. It's their job!

If the principal caves in, he'll have this happen over and over again. He should stick to his decision. Besides the girl sounds like a whiny spoiled brat to me. She wants to whine and cry until she gets her way.

And fuck the rest of you oldsters who think you are more mature than me.

You're not...you're just older than me and forgot what really fucking matters.

Boo hoo!


Dear old, former principle,

Kindly go fuck yourself and the school board. I said what I said and in the heat of the moment, I stand by saying the word: 'Hell'

Give me my fucking piece of paper, which I earned by busting my ass off for the last four years, you sanctimonious prick.

Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
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