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Is it ethical for NYC schools to give morning after pill to students without parental consent? Options · View
lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:02:04 AM

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Back to school checklist: note books? Check. Class assignments? Check. Plan B morning-after pills? Check. Wait, what? It's true: Students as young as 14 can get birth control at 13 New York City high schools without parental consent.

Although condoms have been provided free for years, this pilot program, unpublicized for the last year, gives students access to oral contraceptives, along with the morning-after pill, which can prevent an unintended pregnancy up to 72 hours after unprotected sex.

Parents can choose to fill out an opt-out form that will exclude their children from the program. Otherwise, students can get birth control from the school nurse confidentially.

Prescriptions to oral and injectable birth control are written by city health department doctors. So far, only one to two percent of parents have chosen to opt their kids out of the program.

The New York Post notes that the program, called CATCH—Connecting Adolescents To Comprehensive Health—is part of a citywide attempt to stem the tide of teen pregnancy, which leads girls—mostly poor—to drop out of school.

According to the Associated Press, about 7,000 girls get pregnant by the time they reach the age of 17. It says more than half choose to get an abortion.

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Is there an ethical difference between giving birth control to a 14 year old and giving her Plan B/morning after pill? I know in my kids' school the nurse won't give any kid any form of medication without written consent from a parent. Even if a kid has a simple headache, the nurse won't even give him tylenol. But now the nurse can administer Plan B? My kid has to have a note from us and his doctor to take his allergy medicine.

I know that if my daughter were to get pregnant at 14, I'd want to know about it. What if she were raped or assaulted by someone? What if she's being abused and now the school is helping cover it up, unknowingly? If my kid was 17, I'd want to know. Even if she conceived through willing participation. What if she gets home and begins to have some serious reaction to the drug and I don't know the cause, it would be helpful to know that she'd had some form of pharmaceutical in her system.

If a girl gets Plan B two, three, four times during her high school years, I think her parents would want to know that there is a maturity issue going on? Is a 14 yr old mature enough to make this decision alone? I realize that because I'm a man that my opionion on this will be automatically viewed with skepticism, but I think this is just a little too overboard. In no other aspect of a child's life would we condone keeping parents in the dark like this.

edit... the parents can opt out but how many really do? and can you opt out of just portions of the policy or is it all or nothing?





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 9:26:44 AM

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I think the provision of Plan B pills is appropriate, even at that age, to anyone who's not living in total denial about the sex lives of even young teenagers, and I also think it's appropriate that the waivers are "opt-out" not "opt-in"; why punish kids for non-responsive, don't-give-a-shit parents? In a perfect world, parents could sign up for an option whereby the child has access to everything but that pill, as LM suggested, or at least to be notified in writing in the event that they administer it to their child, if they choose.

But generally, from what I've seen so far, this policy is rooted in realism with regard to the current health concerns of high school and junior high students. Because parents can opt their kids out, there's no need for anyone to launch into their diatribe about how our government is making a totalitarian power grab, etc.

Not that anyone here would do that....
lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 9:32:47 AM

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If my young teen daughter got knocked up, I'd want to know. I'm not opposed to the use of Plan B, I'm opposed to my kid getting it without the benefit of talking to me or her mother about it. As painful as it would be, I'd want to know if she'd been abused. As a responsible parent I'd want to be able to talk to her about all the ramifications of what's happened, by her choice or not.

Maybe this is just so alien to me. Too many parents aren't involved enough in their kids lives enough that the kids feel they can trust their folks. I work really really hard to foster that trust in my kids. My son is only 10, but he knows that he can talk to me about anything if he needs. Some things he tries to handle himself, other things he'll talk to us. I'd hope that as my daughter grows into a young woman, she'll have enough faith in her parents to come to us knowing we'll be there for her no matter what.

edit.. if schools want to be there for kids, fine. give the girl the pill. but with the knowledge that the school nurse or counselor is going to call her parents to let them know. as parents they deserve to know. If my 14 year freshman got knocked up by an 18 yr old senior, the school has a legal obligation to notify me and/or authorities.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 9:44:02 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:
If my young teen daughter got knocked up, I'd want to know. I'm not opposed to the use of Plan B, I'm opposed to my kid getting it without the benefit of talking to me or her mother about it. As painful as it would be, I'd want to know if she'd been abused. As a responsible parent I'd want to be able to talk to her about all the ramifications of what's happened, by her choice or not.

Maybe this is just so alien to me. Too many parents aren't involved enough in their kids lives enough that the kids feel they can trust their folks. I work really really hard to foster that trust in my kids. My son is only 10, but he knows that he can talk to me about anything if he needs. Some things he tries to handle himself, other things he'll talk to us. I'd hope that as my daughter grows into a young woman, she'll have enough faith in her parents to come to us knowing we'll be there for her no matter what.


from your posts, LM, i'd have to say you're a good dad. involved, caring, nurturing, doing the best you can to look out for you daughter and that's great, i applaud you - hopefully, that's the norm. but realistically, there are parents who don't care out there, who aren't there for their daughters, who aren't involved, and giving those girls an alternative to having to go thru parents whose actions or in-actions in this topic will seriously change, perhaps mess up, their lives, is something you have to take a look at. what about the pro-lifers? they're beliefs in the sanctity of like at conception is going to saddle their daughter, who may or may not share their beliefs, with a child she is too young to take care of or handle emotionally or financially. kids that age are too young to be able to handle becoming moms, being thrust into adult hood, and if everyone else fails them, then at least they have an option here - is it perfect? no. i see a lot of issues here too, like going out and having unprotected sex knowing they have a fall back plan... that said, it's better than the alternative - we don't live in a perfect world, some of us more so, than others. a morning after pill is far less traumatizing then getting an abortion.

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lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 9:50:11 AM

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sprite wrote:


from your posts, LM, i'd have to say you're a good dad. involved, caring, nurturing, doing the best you can to look out for you daughter and that's great, i applaud you - hopefully, that's the norm. but realistically, there are parents who don't care out there, who aren't there for their daughters, who aren't involved, and giving those girls an alternative to having to go thru parents whose actions or in-actions in this topic will seriously change, perhaps mess up, their lives, is something you have to take a look at. what about the pro-lifers? they're beliefs in the sanctity of like at conception is going to saddle their daughter, who may or may not share their beliefs, with a child she is too young to take care of or handle emotionally or financially. kids that age are too young to be able to handle becoming moms, being thrust into adult hood, and if everyone else fails them, then at least they have an option here - is it perfect? no. i see a lot of issues here too, like going out and having unprotected sex knowing they have a fall back plan... that said, it's better than the alternative - we don't live in a perfect world, some of us more so, than others. a morning after pill is far less traumatizing then getting an abortion.


I understand that not everyone has a great home life. But I think that most kids have at least one parent that cares and would want to know. It's not a perfect world, there may be other solutions. Planned Parenthood for example. I'm not fond of anyone giving medication to a kid without parental consent. Imagine the lawsuit if a girl got seriously ill or died. It's doubtful that would happen, but for the parents of a dead girl it wouldn't matter how often it happens. I see your point Sprite, I really do. This just seems way to easy to circumvent parents' roles in kids lives.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:07:51 AM

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Just a general comment, when it comes to issues like this:

It seems more and more like there are two camps of people: those who strive for a more ideal world and refuse to give ground to what they believe is a fight for the soul of society, and those who strive to meet the realities and needs as they exist today. If we all agree that the needs of our kids should get priority in our society- and I think most of us would agree with that- then we have to realize that for a variety of reasons, parents have dropped the rope. We can either lament that and beat the dead horse in hopes that it comes back to life, or we can hold the rope as a society, flawed as we may be collectively, to the best of our abilities.

lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:12:56 AM

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LadyX wrote:
Just a general comment, when it comes to issues like this:

It seems more and more like there are two camps of people: those who strive for a more ideal world and refuse to give ground to what they believe is a fight for the soul of society, and those who strive to meet the realities and needs as they exist today. If we all agree that the needs of our kids should get priority in our society- and I think most of us would agree with that- then we have to realize that for a variety of reasons, parents have dropped the rope. We can either lament that and beat the dead horse in hopes that it comes back to life, or we can hold the rope as a society, flawed as we may be collectively, to the best of our abilities.



Now that I totally agree with.

As for the soul of society... not really my concern. In this matter, my concern would be for the physical and emotional well being of my child. That, above all, is my biggest concern and responsibility as a father.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:18:59 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


I understand that not everyone has a great home life. But I think that most kids have at least one parent that cares and would want to know. It's not a perfect world, there may be other solutions. Planned Parenthood for example. I'm not fond of anyone giving medication to a kid without parental consent. Imagine the lawsuit if a girl got seriously ill or died. It's doubtful that would happen, but for the parents of a dead girl it wouldn't matter how often it happens. I see your point Sprite, I really do. This just seems way to easy to circumvent parents' roles in kids lives.


speaking from experience, growing up around single parent homes, growing up IN a single parent home, you're wrong. a lot of single moms/dad are so neck deep in trying to provide for their family, that they don't have the luxury of knowing what's going on with their kids. or then there are the ones who drop out, drink, drugs, just emotionally wasted, who stop caring. or the abusive ones. a lot of kids fall thru the cracks, raise themselves, are left to fend for themselves. sometimes they go for days (or longer) without any meaningful contact (or any at all) with their parent. as Xuani said, yeah, ideally, in a perfect world, we'd all live in suburbia with two caring parents. the world is far from perfect. making certain things available, like ANY kind of health care or pregnancy prevention, for those kids... let me re-iterate that - KIDS - is better than nothing - not all of them have choices, options, and providing them one way in which to keep their already messed up lives from becoming more messed up, is a good thing.

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sprite
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:22:44 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


Now that I totally agree with.

As for the soul of society... not really my concern. In this matter, my concern would be for the physical and emotional well being of my child. That, above all, is my biggest concern and responsibility as a father.


YOUR child. and that's commendable. you have to look at the bigger picture here, though - the ones who don't have that caring, concerned, involved parent. maybe some kids got lucky, and won't need the morning after plan at school - they have parents who are looking out for them - that said, some kids don't have that luxury. don't take away their options.

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Nikki703
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:27:12 AM

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When i first heard that NYC schools were planning to do this I was shocked. Not that they would allow a 14yo to take the Plan B pill without parental consent but that they would give out any medication without consent. They are opening themselves up to legal actions should something go wrong physically.

But as to is it ethical. I think it is. If it were my child, I would want to know but I also think I have the kind of relationship with my kids that they would tell me. Many, perhaps most parents today are either too naive or too stupid to admit that their 13 and 14yo and sometimes their 11 and 12 yo are having sex. They turn a blind eye to it and do not talk to their kids about sex or make them think sex is evil to the point the kids are afraid to ask their parents any questions. Then when the 14yo gets pregnant because they didnt fully understand about birth control options, the parents are shocked.

The opt-out clause is there if the parents dont want to allow it but you would hope that more parents will wake up and smell the coffee so to speak and talk to their kids and educate them properly and let them know that sex is a beautiful natural thing but also that there are serious consequences to their actions.

This isnt about Pro-Life or Pro-Choice, this is about real life and the real world. Its time we all start living in it and not the fantasy world of our kids not being sexually active!
lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:28:00 AM

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sprite wrote:


YOUR child. and that's commendable. you have to look at the bigger picture here, though - the ones who don't have that caring, concerned, involved parent. maybe some kids got lucky, and won't need the morning after plan at school - they have parents who are looking out for them - that said, some kids don't have that luxury. don't take away their options.


I'm not taking away any option. Give the kid the pill if she needs it. Then, tell her parents so they can have a conversation about why it happened. How it happened, and how to prevent it from happening again.









When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Nikki703
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:30:53 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


I'm not taking away any option. Give the kid the pill if she needs it. Then, tell her parents so they can have a conversation about why it happened. How it happened, and how to prevent it from happening again.





That conversation should have had already happened!
musicluver
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:31:10 AM

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Although my child is still a decade away i have to tend to agree with lafayettemister, if anything whether it was abuse or by personal choice, if something were to happen to my daughter i would want to know about it, and though kids seem to be developing physically at a faster rate it does not mean the maturity does along with it. Though i like the concept there are too many flaws imho the way it is. With changes it could be a bit more beneficial. Teens are going to have sex with or without permission from parents and this, with the way it is at the present seems to be more of an enabling sort of action rather than an educating helpful measure. But hey what do i know im just a parent
Dani
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:32:47 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


I understand that not everyone has a great home life. But I think that most kids have at least one parent that cares and would want to know. It's not a perfect world, there may be other solutions. Planned Parenthood for example. I'm not fond of anyone giving medication to a kid without parental consent. Imagine the lawsuit if a girl got seriously ill or died. It's doubtful that would happen, but for the parents of a dead girl it wouldn't matter how often it happens. I see your point Sprite, I really do. This just seems way to easy to circumvent parents' roles in kids lives.


The reality of the situation is that not as many have at least that one caring parent as you think. Like Sprite said, it isn't a perfect world. I've known and worked with kids who have been on their own since they were 8 years old. My own biological mother only gave birth to me because when she found out she was pregnant with me, it was too late for the abortion. I shudder at the thought of my fate had she not had the good sense to find a family who wanted me before I was born. And she was 14 at the time. I met her when I was 18, and she's battled depression and every other thing you could possibly think of because she had to go through the emotional trauma of giving birth to me then handing me over to new parents. She's married now with a kid of her own, but that was after several stress/anxiety related miscarriages. Her parents weren't there for her with me. And she was on her own, even after she gave me up for adoption. They wanted nothing to do with her. So I admire you as well. You seem to be an excellent father, and I applaud you for that. But sometimes parents' roles in their kids' lives need to be circumvented because not all parents have their kids' best interests at heart.

So I won't say offering kids Plan B without parental interference is exactly ethical, but I do believe it's necessary. Of course there will just be irresponsible teenagers taking advantage of this, but I think it's for the greater good.


sprite
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:37:27 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


I'm not taking away any option. Give the kid the pill if she needs it. Then, tell her parents so they can have a conversation about why it happened. How it happened, and how to prevent it from happening again.





i prefer they give the girl the option of telling her parents... if she's doing this on the sly, through school, she may have a VERY good reason for not wanting her parents to know... like she knows she's in for a brutal beating if they find out - first thing that came to mind - sorry, but i'm a realist. that sort of thing goes on. the only conversation that is going to happen is when fist meets face.

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romeoindian
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:40:37 AM

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Fact: Kids 14 years old and younger do have sex
Fact: They do get pregnant as a result
Fact: They are not old enough to be parents while they are kids themselves

While it may be incorrect for kids that young to mess around with sex and its physical and other ramifications, what does a kid do when she is pregnant at that age? Speak to her parents and take a chance that they will do the right thing by her? More likely she will resort to other avenues. Illegal MTPs do result in complications that have a lasting consequence, more often than not.

If the school nurse does the right thing by any child giving her the Plan B with the education needed never to repeat this again, it would be a lesson well learnt.

As parents, we ARE responsible for our children, and their acts of omission and commission. But if we cannot see reason,our children are also members of a larger society who is willing to take some responsibility in their upbringing.

I appreciate the schools' actions. Parents do have the choice to have their children excluded if they are confident of their wards' exemplary behaviour and maturity.
lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:41:05 AM

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Nikki703 wrote:


That conversation should have had already happened!


That's a good point.

slipperywhenwet2012 wrote:


The reality of the situation is that not as many have at least that one caring parent as you think. Like Sprite said, it isn't a perfect world. I've known and worked with kids who have been on their own since they were 8 years old. My own biological mother only gave birth to me because when she found out she was pregnant with me, it was too late for the abortion. I shudder at the thought of my fate had she not had the good sense to find a family who wanted me before I was born. And she was 14 at the time. I met her when I was 18, and she's battled depression and every other thing you could possibly think of because she had to go through the emotional trauma of giving birth to me then handing me over to new parents. She's married now with a kid of her own, but that was after several stress/anxiety related miscarriages. Her parents weren't there for her with me. And she was on her own, even after she gave me up for adoption. They wanted nothing to do with her. So I admire you as well. You seem to be an excellent father, and I applaud you for that. But sometimes parents' roles in their kids' lives need to be circumvented because not all parents have their kids' best interests at heart.

So I won't say offering kids Plan B without parental interference is exactly ethical, but I do believe it's necessary. Of course there will just be irresponsible teenagers taking advantage of this, but I think it's for the greater good.



There are plenty without good parents. I don't know the stats, but I'd think the overwhelming majority have at least on fairly decent parent. Decent enough to care about a pregnant daughter. I also know what it's like to have been given up for adoption. My birth mother gave me up because she feared for my safety from her husband of the time. At least that's what me and my biological siblings assume since I didn't find any of my blood family until years after my bio mom had died. I do know she suffered terribly with depression after giving me up.

One point I'd disagree with. At no point is my role as a parent being circumvented needed. My role as father is to be there no matter what. Marriage vows say "good times and bad, sickness and health", that is doubly true for my kids. Like I said before, if my 14 yr old is pregnant there's a possibility that she got that way without her consent. For her emotional well being, I need to know the details so I can get her the appropriate help. This is only in NY, the rest of the country isn't passing out Plan B. what of all the girls in the rest of the country?

sprite wrote:


i prefer they give the girl the option of telling her parents... if she's doing this on the sly, through school, she may have a VERY good reason for not wanting her parents to know... like she knows she's in for a brutal beating if they find out - first thing that came to mind - sorry, but i'm a realist. that sort of thing goes on. the only conversation that is going to happen is when fist meets face.


I think those cases don't happen very often. In the 1950's, yes. 2012, far far less likely. I see your point. But even hospitals have to report to parents when treating children. I think?





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Dani
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:51:30 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


There are plenty without good parents. I don't know the stats, but I'd think the overwhelming majority have at least on fairly decent parent. Decent enough to care about a pregnant daughter. I also know what it's like to have been given up for adoption. My birth mother gave me up because she feared for my safety from her husband of the time. At least that's what me and my biological siblings assume since I didn't find any of my blood family until years after my bio mom had died. I do know she suffered terribly with depression after giving me up.

One point I'd disagree with. At no point is my role as a parent being circumvented needed. My role as father is to be there no matter what. Marriage vows say "good times and bad, sickness and health", that is doubly true for my kids. Like I said before, if my 14 yr old is pregnant there's a possibility that she got that way without her consent. For her emotional well being, I need to know the details so I can get her the appropriate help. This is only in NY, the rest of the country isn't passing out Plan B. what of all the girls in the rest of the country?


You're thinking ideally. In places like NY, the overwhelming majority don't have at least one decent parent. I know it's hard to wrap your head around it because you're an involved, concerned, understanding, and compassionate parent. But the reality is that some parents really don't give a shit. They've told their kids so...to their faces, to their teachers, to their peers. It doesn't matter. And perhaps it's a concept you can't quite grasp, but some parents don't need to be involved in their kids lives. They're better off without them. Now school nurses or whoever administers the pill should of course strongly suggest/encourage the girls at least talking with their parents...as an option. But like I said, I know it may be hard for you to grasp/understand (and I am by no means insulting your intelligence) because you're a parent that actually cares, some parents really don't care about the well-being of their kids. I've known parents who have encouraged and even forced their kids into having kids just for extra government benefits. So you really think a parent like this is fit to be involved in a decision like Plan B? Again, sometimes circumvention is necessary for so many different reasons.


sprite
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:57:02 AM

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musicluver wrote:
Although my child is still a decade away i have to tend to agree with lafayettemister, if anything whether it was abuse or by personal choice, if something were to happen to my daughter i would want to know about it, and though kids seem to be developing physically at a faster rate it does not mean the maturity does along with it. Though i like the concept there are too many flaws imho the way it is. With changes it could be a bit more beneficial. Teens are going to have sex with or without permission from parents and this, with the way it is at the present seems to be more of an enabling sort of action rather than an educating helpful measure. But hey what do i know im just a parent


here's the thing. kids are going to have sex whether or not there's an escape clause. they don't think of things like that. hell, some adults don't even think of stuff like that. it's not going to be enabling, because honestly, some girl is not going to say 'yes' after thinking 'oh, i can take a pill' she's just going to say yes, and then AFTERwards, think... 'oh, fuck...'

and it's not just 'bad kids'... 'good kids' have sex, we're curious hormone filled unguided sex missiles at that age, it's what we do!



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lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:59:20 AM

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slipperywhenwet2012 wrote:


You're thinking ideally. In places like NY, the overwhelming majority don't have at least one decent parent. I know it's hard to wrap your head around it because you're an involved, concerned, understanding, and compassionate parent. But the reality is that some parents really don't give a shit. They've told their kids so...to their faces, to their teachers, to their peers. It doesn't matter. And perhaps it's a concept you can't quite grasp, but some parents don't need to be involved in their kids lives. They're better off without them. Now school nurses or whoever administers the pill should of course strongly suggest/encourage the girls at least talking with their parents...as an option. But like I said, I know it may be hard for you to grasp/understand (and I am by no means insulting your intelligence) because you're a parent that actually cares, some parents really don't care about the well-being of their kids. I've known parents who have encouraged and even forced their kids into having kids just for extra government benefits. So you really think a parent like this is fit to be involved in a decision like Plan B? Again, sometimes circumvention is necessary for so many different reasons.


An overwhelming majority? Wow, you're saying that more than 50% of kids don't have a decent parent? Overwhelming majority... so, what? 60%? 70% 51%? If that is accurate then NY has some serious issues to take care of. I think I'll stay out of the state (except to visit one particular Lushie someday). If 60+% of the kids on NY are living without suitable parents, what the hell is the next generation going to look like? That's a scary fucking thought! Any parent that doesn't care for his or her kid should lose the kid. Plenty of good people out there looking to adopt. If this is what the rat race has evolved to, an overwhelming majority of uncaring parents? Let me off the wheel.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
sprite
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 11:03:07 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


I think those cases don't happen very often. In the 1950's, yes. 2012, far far less likely. I see your point. But even hospitals have to report to parents when treating children. I think?


yeah, we really do live in different worlds... btw, there are more forms of abuse then a mere beating.

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Dani
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 11:03:27 AM

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lafayettemister wrote:


An overwhelming majority? Wow, you're saying that more than 50% of kids don't have a decent parent? Overwhelming majority... so, what? 60%? 70% 51%? If that is accurate then NY has some serious issues to take care of. I think I'll stay out of the state (except to visit one particular Lushie someday). If 60+% of the kids on NY are living without suitable parents, what the hell is the next generation going to look like? That's a scary fucking thought! Any parent that doesn't care for his or her kid should lose the kid. Plenty of good people out there looking to adopt. If this is what the rat race has evolved to, an overwhelming majority of uncaring parents? Let me off the wheel.


I'm not going to lie and say that I know exact numbers and statistics. And when you put it in those terms, it does look pretty bleak. I'm just saying, there's more out there than you think. And yes, in some concentrated areas of NY, overwhelming amounts of kids don't have any parents that gives a single fuck about them.


lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 11:08:52 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,421
Location: Alabama, United States
sprite wrote:


yeah, we really do live in different worlds... btw, there are more forms of abuse then a mere beating.


I think you and I grew up in completely opposite worlds. Truth is, reality is probably somewhere between our experiences. Reality for kids in this day and age is probably not as bad as you think it is. While at the same time not as good as I think it is. Despite being a shitty husband, I know what true unconditional love is. I've received it as a child, still do from my folks. And I know it from giving it to my kids. I wish everyone had experienced non-romantic, unconditional, deep love like I have.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
lafayettemister
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 11:14:14 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,421
Location: Alabama, United States
slipperywhenwet2012 wrote:


I'm not going to lie and say that I know exact numbers and statistics. And when you put it in those terms, it does look pretty bleak. I'm just saying, there's more out there than you think. And yes, in some concentrated areas of NY, overwhelming amounts of kids don't have any parents that gives a single fuck about them.


I live in a outlying city outside a state capitol in the deep south. Where I work is on the highway in the middle of town, with poor people living all around. In decades old shotgun houses. The government assistance in this area is very high. There are LOTS of teen moms in the area. And even despite all of that, I'd say that the vast majority, 90% of the parents are loving and caring parents that would be concerned about their kid being pregnant. Enough to at least want to know. In fact, most teachers will tell you that they have too many parents that are TOO involved. Inner city, poor parents. Not just the well-off or better-off parents.

This is depressing.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 11:40:53 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,813
At the end of the day, how are both sets of priorities not being served here? Conscientious parents can opt their kids out if they don't approve of this, and use their own health care providers to administer any birth control or contraceptive measures they prefer if school provision of these things makes them insane. Otherwise, these kids have access to the care and items they need, based on society today, as opposed to 1952.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 2:24:45 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 652,864
LadyX wrote:
At the end of the day, how are both sets of priorities not being served here? Conscientious parents can opt their kids out if they don't approve of this, and use their own health care providers to administer any birth control or contraceptive measures they prefer if school provision of these things makes them insane. Otherwise, these kids have access to the care and items they need, based on society today, as opposed to 1952.


I don't really understand how this is still being talked about, if the parents are able to opt their kids out of this, then there is no issue. Parents have the ability to parent their children, end of story.
1ball
Posted: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:07:14 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
I'm not qualified to respond as a parent, but I am qualified to respond as a citizen. Somebody has to protect children from bad parenting for the sake of all the other citizens. We allow parents to inflict their children on us. Any other form of caregiver needs to be licensed, but we let any two people who can produce a fuck trophy have custody of someone who will one day have the ability to hurt people. Some parents do a great job of parenting, but the schools are the first line of defense of the society when parents fail.

A kid who doesn't want to face the music with their parents can easily miss the 72 hour window if their parents opt out, or if there is a reporting requirement. Sure, it's not a perfect system if it lets kids keep their parents in the dark, but it's not going to be a perfect system no matter what. I say leave it up to local standards.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
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