Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

Do you believe in "God"? Options · View
Guest
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 5:41:13 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,109
To sum it up in the proverbial nutshell i do not believe that there is a god that looks down from upon high with a grandiose plan for all of us.

I have always admired the hypocrisy of the church in that you are to kneel on bended knee for a benevolent being and failure to do so shall lead to a life of eternal damnation, is this the same church that turns and teaches that god so love the world that he gave his only son who then went on to teach that one must turn the other cheek when faced with aggression or confrontation yet it is the church themselves that are most opposed to change as witnessed daily by the Roman Catholic Church and there stance on homosexuality and abortion to but mention a few. So is one to believe that this benevolent being that loves the world so would prefer me to bring a multitude of children into this world to the point that my wife or i are incapable of feeding them forcing us to work multiple jobs leaving them with others to care for them while we strive to feed and cloth them and then when it reaches a point that i am unable to ensure a decent education for them i am forced to move to a poorer community so that i may afford housing thereby subjecting my children to unsavoury characters and the very likelihood of drugs and promiscuity and then being of a sound religious upbringing they would then refrain from condoms creating an situation whereby they either fall pregnant of contract HIV because children being children shall explore as they have for eons. So when i then go to church to pray for gods help so that i may weather the storm of an over expanded household along with a pregnant HIV/aids infected teenager the good lords servant shall offerer to look after my boys after they have finished choir only to rape and abuse all the while preaching to me that his way is the path to the light. Religion is a farce to keep the meek under the yoke of oppression so that they may fill the coffers of the church for abusive sadistic hypocritical to live in the lap of luxury. If one day i am to be judged then it shall be based on the life that i felt was done in the best interest of those i have loved and if it to mean that i am to spend my life in eternal damnation then i shall do so gladly knowing that i went through my life living by a set of standards higher than those laid out by a hypocrisy that is unable to understand or help the very people to claims protect
Guest
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 6:00:34 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,109
How do we know History only because the truth was pass on from generation to generation. Or was that a lie too.

to answer this quickly

History has and always will be written by the victor's so therefore due to the fact that Christianity survived its persecution it was allowed to flourish and along with this expansion it gathered all the meek to it in the teachings that being meek was an acceptable state of mind and that the church shall supply all and if in the event that you suffered it was due to you being a sinner and having to repent. As religion then increased it gathered more and more mindless beings to itself all the time growing and becoming stronger till it reached a point where even the knights templer where decimated by the church for being too powerful and being able to control governments. The bible was written by the very people who where in the position to benefit from it the most and as the word expanded so did the power base till we have reached a point whereby if one is to believe the bible, Koran or any other religious text we are all doomed unless we abide by the written word. The irony is that each group fails to acknowledge the other stating that those of a different religion are doomed and shall be held accountable on judgement day, well if that be the case then make room because damnation is about to get pretty full when that day arrives.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 7:16:33 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,109
When one person has a closed mind, I call him or her ignorant. When a million people have their minds closed, I call that: a bunch of ignorant fuckers.

In response wellmademan

when a million people have there minds closed i call that: Christianity
DamonX
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 8:28:22 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/25/2009
Posts: 798
Ok, ok, I guess I was a bit hard on poor ol’ Jebru. I realize than some of you have taken offence at my reaction to his comments in the same way as if I had kicked your puppy. Perhaps it actually was a bit of overkill, but sometimes those puppies need to be kicked so they don’t pee on the carpet again. :)

And even if it was overkill, I know there are more than a few of you out there that cracked a smile when you read that. I think Jebru knew what he was doing and knew what he was getting into when he chose to play the misguided role of the “off-white knight” as he has been prone to do in recent days. This is the tank after all, and if you can’t swim, you better stay out of the deep end.

But that being said...I’m going to avoid any more personal attacks. The arrogant, asshole hat is coming off and the scholar hat is coming on.

I will, however, address some of the points that have been brought up. The first is this fallacy that me and people like me are “closed minded” because we do not subscribe to any of the fabricated ideas of religious belief. Realizing that there ‘might’ be a God out is acceptable, as long as you realize that the probability is very low. Hoping that there is a God is not open minded but rather simply wishful thinking. Religion was something that was fabricated by primitive human beings to explain things that were beyond their understanding. Religion has never, and will never be the product of an open mind.

If I told you that there was a big green monster living under my bed, would you believe me? Would you chastise others for being small minded for not believing me? Would you respect the beliefs of the few people that might believe me? Answer these questions and most believers will recognize how intellectually feeble the idea of faith is, when they see it applied to anything other than their own God.

Oh but wait...certainly I shouldn’t say anything bad about religion. Why not? Because you just don’t. Religion has constructed this wall of intellectual impermeability around itself and we all have to walk on eggshells when discussing it. But aren’t religious ideas just like any other ideas, and should be scrutinized in the same way when not supported by evidence or fact? If I wrote a scientific paper on the big green monster living under my bed, I would be laughed at and ridiculed when I could not support my beliefs with evidence. Why is religion any different?

Quote:
But religion makes me happy!


I’m sure it does. But that doesn’t make it true. If you want to live in ignorant bliss then you can do that. But I will always seek the pursuit of actual knowledge. Trust me...the real world is far more amazing than anything your medieval superstition can dream up.
Guest
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 9:29:59 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,109
DamonX wrote:
Ok, ok, I guess I was a bit hard on poor ol’ Jebru. I realize than some of you have taken offence at my reaction to his comments in the same way as if I had kicked your puppy. Perhaps it actually was a bit of overkill, but sometimes those puppies need to be kicked so they don’t pee on the carpet again.


you kick puppies?


DamonX wrote:
This is the tank after all, and if you can’t swim, you better stay out of the deep end.


so swimming means personal attacks are ok? i can call you a school yard bully that gets off on intimidation with big words then? i can swim baby..wanna play?

DamonX wrote:
But that being said...I’m going to avoid any more personal attacks. The arrogant, asshole hat is coming off and the scholar hat is coming on.

I will, however, address some of the points that have been brought up. The first is this fallacy that me and people like me are “closed minded” because we do not subscribe to any of the fabricated ideas of religious belief. Realizing that there ‘might’ be a God out is acceptable, as long as you realize that the probability is very low. Hoping that there is a God is not open minded but rather simply wishful thinking. Religion was something that was fabricated by primitive human beings to explain things that were beyond their understanding. Religion has never, and will never be the product of an open mind.

If I told you that there was a big green monster living under my bed, would you believe me? Would you chastise others for being small minded for not believing me? Would you respect the beliefs of the few people that might believe me? Answer these questions and most believers will recognize how intellectually feeble the idea of faith is, when they see it applied to anything other than their own God.

Oh but wait...certainly I shouldn’t say anything bad about religion. Why not? Because you just don’t. Religion has constructed this wall of intellectual impermeability around itself and we all have to walk on eggshells when discussing it. But aren’t religious ideas just like any other ideas, and should be scrutinized in the same way when not supported by evidence or fact? If I wrote a scientific paper on the big green monster living under my bed, I would be laughed at and ridiculed when I could not support my beliefs with evidence. Why is religion any different?


finally some intelligence...bit of a re-hash of whats already been said. but whos counting

make fun of the institution of religion all you want, of god all you want damon, ill laugh along with ya but when you drag it down we all lose man.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 9:56:42 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
LittleMissBitch wrote:


so swimming means personal attacks are ok? i can call you a school yard bully that gets off on intimidation with big words then? i can swim baby..wanna play?


Well said, LMB. Bravo!

DamonX wrote:

If I told you that there was a big green monster living under my bed, would you believe me? Would you chastise others for being small minded for not believing me? Would you respect the beliefs of the few people that might believe me? Answer these questions and most believers will recognize how intellectually feeble the idea of faith is, when they see it applied to anything other than their own God.


Who am I to say that there isn't a green monster living under your bed? Just because it's not there when I look doesn't mean that it's not there when YOU look. And whose definition of "monster" are we using, anyway? Would I be "small minded" for insisting that because I don't see a monster, you mustn't see it either? Maybe you're correct, and I should be medicated and put away in a padded cell for not seeing the monster that was so clearly there. Cogito Ergo Sum... but I'm not too sure about the rest of you...

Let me ask you this question: If you saw somehting that you could only describe as "miraculous" -- something impossible to reproduce in a lab, that no amount of scientific theory could explain away -- could you expand the scope of your reasoning to include the possibility of a higher being? Or are you so hide-bound in your own surety that the possibility is unavailable to you? I have seen miracles. Call me "intellectually feeble" if you wish - you can't shake my faith, and being insulting only drags this discussion down to where nobody else will want to participate.
scooter
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 10:22:25 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 2,689
Location: Ohio
Rock on Mr.nudie PAntZZ!

I firgureder he quit by now?
Guess not?
Tell him about the sheep, and the lamb,
That always gets em

scooter.....
Guest
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 10:33:13 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,109
MrNudiePants wrote:

Let me ask you this question: If you saw somehting that you could only describe as "miraculous" -- something impossible to reproduce in a lab, that no amount of scientific theory could explain away -- could you expand the scope of your reasoning to include the possibility of a higher being?


can i answer that? yes i have seen a miracle. my father lived when he should have died. one min we're saying our good byes then next he was awake and hungry. the docs and nurses, including my husband...a very smart man, all shook their heads.

did it make me think..".oooo maybe there something more"? no. made me think....oh, theres science that we dont understand. not to over simplify but i likened it to showing a lighter to the people of 1000 years ago. they would have called that a miracle too.

but see? this is good debate. opposing sides giving well thought out argument to support each belief!

god i love the Think Tank!!
scooter
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 10:35:21 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 2,689
Location: Ohio
He's prolly got a tatoo too!Whistle
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 10:39:42 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 7,185
Location: Your dirty fantasy



It comes down to belief based on actual proof versus belief based on faith.
As such most of the world is ruled on the basis of provable facts. Human progress in all its variations is based on proofs. Sure you can “hypothesize” something, but if you can’t prove it, how much power are you going to assign to it? Everyone on this thread agrees that anything is technically “possible”… but it’s the lack of actual proof that forces the need to be skeptical and reject the idea based on the desire to believe something based on it being “magic” or a “miracle” just because we want to believe it to be so.

Good things happen to people everyday. They are isolated incidents. Does it mean it’s a miracle created by the direct will of some “higher being”? If we lived in pre-Enlightenment era, then sure… what else did we have to go on? But believing that the earth is being held up for four elephants standing on the back of a turtle was also a belief that was widely accepted at one point in history. Upwards of 100,000 women were killed at one point in history based on the "faith" in the unprovable belief that they were witches. I think most of us can say we’ve moved beyond these inane ideas… except of course, when it comes to the concept of God.

To me, “it’s a miracle” means something great happened that I have no explanation for, so therefore it must be a sign of the intervention of a higher-power. There is no logic or intelligence behind this kind of reasoning. Why can’t it be just a random occurrence? Scientific experiments are filled with these things, yet nobody is calling them ‘miracles’. It’s just human desire to want to assign importance to anything that will support whatever they are desperate to believe.

The point of an atheist isn’t to say definitively that there is 100% confidence that there is no such thing as God. The point is, there is no reliable evidence to suggest God does exist. If proving God exists was taken to court, current evidence doesn’t even come close to being able to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. The conservative opinion is to not believe in something with such low probability of proof. And certainly to not confuse credibility with faith, as though “faith” was somehow morally or spiritually superior. There is a lot of arrogance in “faith” believers considering it’s an argument that can never be won. An atheist isn’t trying to assert God doesn’t exist, an atheist is trying to assert that there is no proof that God exists, so one cannot assume that he does. There is a big difference.



DamonX
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 11:34:11 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/25/2009
Posts: 798
LittleMissBitch wrote:
DamonX wrote:
Ok, ok, I guess I was a bit hard on poor ol’ Jebru. I realize than some of you have taken offence at my reaction to his comments in the same way as if I had kicked your puppy. Perhaps it actually was a bit of overkill, but sometimes those puppies need to be kicked so they don’t pee on the carpet again.


you kick puppies?

When they nip at my heels, yes.


DamonX wrote:
This is the tank after all, and if you can’t swim, you better stay out of the deep end.


Quote:
so swimming means personal attacks are ok? i can call you a school yard bully that gets off on intimidation with big words then? i can swim baby..wanna play?


Yes. Defintately.

My "personal attacks" were simply a response to jeb's attack on me. I do feel bad since he obviousy can't defend himself though. If you want to join the fray then I would be glad to engage you. uh-oh....did Jebru entice you with his nice guy routine and B-class cybering?

DamonX wrote:
But that being said...I’m going to avoid any more personal attacks. The arrogant, asshole hat is coming off and the scholar hat is coming on.

I will, however, address some of the points that have been brought up. The first is this fallacy that me and people like me are “closed minded” because we do not subscribe to any of the fabricated ideas of religious belief. Realizing that there ‘might’ be a God out is acceptable, as long as you realize that the probability is very low. Hoping that there is a God is not open minded but rather simply wishful thinking. Religion was something that was fabricated by primitive human beings to explain things that were beyond their understanding. Religion has never, and will never be the product of an open mind.

If I told you that there was a big green monster living under my bed, would you believe me? Would you chastise others for being small minded for not believing me? Would you respect the beliefs of the few people that might believe me? Answer these questions and most believers will recognize how intellectually feeble the idea of faith is, when they see it applied to anything other than their own God.

Oh but wait...certainly I shouldn’t say anything bad about religion. Why not? Because you just don’t. Religion has constructed this wall of intellectual impermeability around itself and we all have to walk on eggshells when discussing it. But aren’t religious ideas just like any other ideas, and should be scrutinized in the same way when not supported by evidence or fact? If I wrote a scientific paper on the big green monster living under my bed, I would be laughed at and ridiculed when I could not support my beliefs with evidence. Why is religion any different?


[quote]finally some intelligence...bit of a re-hash of whats already been said. but whos counting
make fun of the institution of religion all you want, of god all you want damon, ill laugh along with ya but when you drag it down we all lose man.


How was I dragging it down? I thought those coments were quite non-offensive and didn't single out anyone.
scooter
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 11:34:53 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 2,689
Location: Ohio
an some pretzlesbootyshake
Too, TO,Two
DamonX
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 11:37:58 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/25/2009
Posts: 798
Quote:
Let me ask you this question: If you saw somehting that you could only describe as "miraculous" -- something impossible to reproduce in a lab, that no amount of scientific theory could explain away -- could you expand the scope of your reasoning to include the possibility of a higher being?


I would say that "I don't know because I don't have the information to make that call." I wouldn't say it was magic though.
scooter
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2010 11:58:17 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 2,689
Location: Ohio
DamonX wrote:
Quote:
Let me ask you this question: If you saw somehting that you could only describe as "miraculous" -- something impossible to reproduce in a lab, that no amount of scientific theory could explain away -- could you expand the scope of your reasoning to include the possibility of a higher being?


I would say that "I don't know because I don't have the information to make that call." I wouldn't say it was magic though.


Majic is only what you believe in damonX.
I know a few tricks myself
I could place a quarter in your hand,
ask you to hold your hand out strait,and bump your hand,
and snach that quarter befor you knew what hit chya !
Guest
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 5:45:01 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,109
DamonX wrote:
How was I dragging it down? I thought those coments were quite non-offensive and didn't single out anyone.


i meant in general damon...
DamonX
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 10:20:01 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/25/2009
Posts: 798
Here an interesting scale to quantify belief in god.



1.Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'

2.Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there.'

3.Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.'

4.Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'

5.Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. 'I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be sceptical.'

6.Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'

7.Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.'

Which number are you? glasses8
LadyX
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 10:26:47 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
5.75
Guest
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 10:37:31 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,109
hmmm...interesting. i really want to say 7 but if im honest, guess ill have to go with 6. for sure have never felt the presence of the gods of legends or religions but would be a lie if i said i felt nothing at all.
Guest
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 10:37:33 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,109
oops double post :)
Jacknife
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 12:52:11 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/27/2008
Posts: 197
Location: United Kingdom
6.9, as is Richard Dawkins, Chris Hitchens and all the other Atheist authors who are told they are argogant for coming to the conclusion there is no God by the 1 scoring religious who claim to know something, given no evidence.

All interlectual Atheists would quite happily change their opinion if one could provide compelling evidence for one.
Rembacher
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 4:07:23 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,107
DamonX wrote:
LittleMissBitch wrote:
DamonX wrote:
Ok, ok, I guess I was a bit hard on poor ol’ Jebru. I realize than some of you have taken offence at my reaction to his comments in the same way as if I had kicked your puppy. Perhaps it actually was a bit of overkill, but sometimes those puppies need to be kicked so they don’t pee on the carpet again.


you kick puppies?


When they nip at my heels, yes.


DamonX wrote:

DamonX wrote:
This is the tank after all, and if you can’t swim, you better stay out of the deep end.


LittleMissBitch wrote:
so swimming means personal attacks are ok? i can call you a school yard bully that gets off on intimidation with big words then? i can swim baby..wanna play?


Yes. Defintately.
My "personal attacks" were simply a response to jeb's attack on me. I do feel bad since he obviousy can't defend himself though. If you want to join the fray then I would be glad to engage you. uh-oh....did Jebru entice you with his nice guy routine and B-class cybering?


DamonX wrote:

DamonX wrote:
But that being said...I’m going to avoid any more personal attacks. The arrogant, asshole hat is coming off and the scholar hat is coming on.

I will, however, address some of the points that have been brought up. The first is this fallacy that me and people like me are “closed minded” because we do not subscribe to any of the fabricated ideas of religious belief. Realizing that there ‘might’ be a God out is acceptable, as long as you realize that the probability is very low. Hoping that there is a God is not open minded but rather simply wishful thinking. Religion was something that was fabricated by primitive human beings to explain things that were beyond their understanding. Religion has never, and will never be the product of an open mind.

If I told you that there was a big green monster living under my bed, would you believe me? Would you chastise others for being small minded for not believing me? Would you respect the beliefs of the few people that might believe me? Answer these questions and most believers will recognize how intellectually feeble the idea of faith is, when they see it applied to anything other than their own God.

Oh but wait...certainly I shouldn’t say anything bad about religion. Why not? Because you just don’t. Religion has constructed this wall of intellectual impermeability around itself and we all have to walk on eggshells when discussing it. But aren’t religious ideas just like any other ideas, and should be scrutinized in the same way when not supported by evidence or fact? If I wrote a scientific paper on the big green monster living under my bed, I would be laughed at and ridiculed when I could not support my beliefs with evidence. Why is religion any different?


LittleMissBitch wrote:
finally some intelligence...bit of a re-hash of whats already been said. but whos counting
make fun of the institution of religion all you want, of god all you want damon, ill laugh along with ya but when you drag it down we all lose man.


How was I dragging it down? I thought those coments were quite non-offensive and didn't single out anyone.


Just thought I'd help you out with your tags a little since I think most people were like me, and didn't notice all the entertaining things you had to say about me here. If you look on page 2, between posts from Felix and WMM you will see all I have to say in defense of myself. If that doesn't count as sticking up for myself, then that's fine with me. Feel free to keep taking shots at me and my character under the guise of an argument with LMB.
DamonX
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 4:55:25 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/25/2009
Posts: 798
Quote:
Just thought I'd help you out with your tags a little since I think most people were like me, and didn't notice all the entertaining things you had to say about me here. If you look on page 2, between posts from Felix and WMM you will see all I have to say in defense of myself. If that doesn't count as sticking up for myself, then that's fine with me. Feel free to keep taking shots at me and my character under the guise of an argument with LMB.


Let's move past it Jebru. There are a lot more interesting things to be discussed in this thread. If you want to keep pushing and try to engage me in another bout of witty repartee, then go ahead, but I really don't think the results will be in your favour.

Instead, why don't we both keep this on topic? What number on the scale are you?

I'm with LMB and Jackknife. A solid 6.



CuriousButterfly
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 5:25:55 PM

Rank: Flirtatiously Fluttering

Joined: 7/19/2010
Posts: 2,426
Location: NOYB, Canada
I believe in God - I don't why I do but I just do. I don't question my faith - not because I am not intellectual or naive but because in this area of my life, specifically my spiritual side, it hurts no one including myself to have a little blind faith. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - it takes a strong will to really listen to others - listen without defending - speak without offending.





Dancing_Doll
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 5:26:53 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 7,185
Location: Your dirty fantasy
I'm a 6...

In my mind, proof is necessary to validate being a 1 or a 7. In the meantime, I have to go on probability and 6 seems most logical to me.


Guest
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 5:40:50 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,109
Such a hot topic or debate every where you turn today. Since I am not one to shy away from the heat here is my answer. I have been an atheist and a practicing witch. I am a Christian now and yes I believe in God. I don't care for organized religion, but a relationship with a loving and caring Lord. My reasons are faith-based since it really is impossible to "prove" God exists. It is personal experience and my interpretation of what I read in the Bible. I don't push my beliefs on people. I will share my experiences and beliefs if asked by someone. I won't get into an argument who is wrong or right. It doesn't benefit anyone. Jesus was a major rule breaker of religious traditions and what was socially acceptable. Everything He did was because of love and that is how I chose to live my life. I may not agree with everything a person does, but I can accept and love them as they are for their uniqueness.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 6:42:33 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
DamonX wrote:


I'm with LMB and Jackknife. A solid 6.



Hmm. By listing yourself at a 6, you admit the possibility that God exists, but in an earlier post, you said that belief in religion is an illness that must be cured. Which is true, and which is just another aphorism designed to stir up tempers?
Guest
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 7:09:30 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,109
god and religion are two different things Mr Nudie. im all for keeping god and booting religion.
sprite
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 7:16:09 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 20,732
Location: My Tower, United States
the thing is, once you turn faith into an organization, such as we have done with religion, you bring along all the corruption, the bigotry, the greed, the hate of the power hungry who rise to the top to run the religion. somehow, even the most beautiful of faith based ideas (love thy neighbor, treat him as you would have him treat you, turn the other cheek) become corrupted - I can't believe that Jesus (for one example) would approve of how things worked out - killing in his name? i don't think so.



Love not hate.
DamonX
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 7:46:00 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/25/2009
Posts: 798
MrNudiePants wrote:
DamonX wrote:


I'm with LMB and Jackknife. A solid 6.



Hmm. By listing yourself at a 6, you admit the possibility that God exists, but in an earlier post, you said that belief in religion is an illness that must be cured. Which is true, and which is just another aphorism designed to stir up tempers?


Nudie! You didn't post your number?

Were you expecting me to be a 7? A 7 indicates that a person "knows", which is impossible. I agree that there might be a god in the same way there "might" be leprachauns or a Loch Ness monster. The probablility of all of those are very very low however.

When I describe religion as an illness it is reference to fact that it is imposed on children before they have a chance to develop the critical thinking skills required to decide such things.

Were you given the opportunity to decide? Or do you possess the same religious beliefs as your parents? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess the latter. Just as if you were born in southeren India, you would probably possess Hindu beliefs. Or if you were born in Syria, you would probably be a Muslim. If you were born in ancient Greece you would believe in Zeus.

You've been infected and no amount of logical reasoning will ever cure you. The idea of religion is implanted in the child's mind before it has developed the ability to think critically. If you never had anyone impose any religious beliefs on you as a child, and were presented with all the religious options at the age of 25, do you really think you would choose christianity? Or any other religion for that matter? You might...but I doubt it...and I don't think most people would. It would be like me trying to convince you today that there is a being living under Mount Everest that wants you to sacrifice a goat to him every day or else he will punish you with a rain of fire and ash. You would consider it rididulous, just as you would probably consider your current beliefs ridiculous if you hadn't been indoctrinated before you could think for yourself.

That is why I consider religion a disease.


You think rationally about politics, gun control, and health care...but when it comes to religion...it all boils down to "my mommy told me so." I'm not saying you can't think rationally. But I don't think you can think rationally about religion.


Rembacher
Posted: Sunday, September 5, 2010 8:23:48 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,107
DamonX wrote:

When I describe religion as an illness it is reference to fact that it is imposed on children before they have a chance to develop the critical thinking skills required to decide such things.

Were you given the opportunity to decide? Or do you possess the same religious beliefs as your parents? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess the latter. Just as if you were born in southeren India, you would probably possess Hindu beliefs. Or if you were born in Syria, you would probably be a Muslim. If you were born in ancient Greece you would believe in Zeus.

You've been infected and no amount of logical reasoning will ever cure you. The idea of religion is implanted in the child's mind before it has developed the ability to think critically. If you never had anyone impose any religious beliefs on you as a child, and were presented with all the religious options at the age of 25, do you really think you would choose christianity? Or any other religion for that matter? You might...but I doubt it...and I don't think most people would. It would be like me trying to convince you today that there is a being living under Mount Everest that wants you to sacrifice a goat to him every day or else he will punish you with a rain of fire and ash. You would consider it rididulous, just as you would probably consider your current beliefs ridiculous if you hadn't been indoctrinated before you could think for yourself.

That is why I consider religion a disease.


You think rationally about politics, gun control, and health care...but when it comes to religion...it all boils down to "my mommy told me so." I'm not saying you can't think rationally. But I don't think you can think rationally about religion.


Not sure why I have to answer the same question twice, but I will humour you. Since you want a quantitative answer to the qualitative question that Nicola asked and I already answered, by your numbers, I'm somewhere around a 2.

I'm curious whether your logic about being destined to believe what your parents do holds up with you, since I know it doesn't to for me. My parents are Mennonites. The most lenient of that belief, but still Mennonites, who forced me to attend church every sunday until I moved out of their house. By your logic, I should also be Mennonite, or at least Christian, but I do not even consider myself a Christian of any kind. Also, by your logic your parents either never mentioned religion in any way, giving you the ability to choose for yourself; or your parents were atheists, essentially infecting you, causing you to be an atheist.

You are right, if we don't expose ourselves to other ideas we are destined to believe the same thing as the people around us. But that doesn't mean that everyone who was ever exposed to religion as a child is incapable of thinking logically about religion. This is why you are accused of being close minded. It's not because you disagree with us, it's because you seem to imply that anyone who thinks different than you can't think logically.
Users browsing this topic
Guest 


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.1.6 (NET v4.0) - 11/14/2007
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.