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What do women want? We dont want the bad guy, we just want someone who isnt this!! Options · View
TheCrimsonKing
Posted: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:15:51 AM

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Joined: 5/1/2012
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Location: Kentucky, United States
I've found clear evidence that you don't have to be a so-called nice guy to be the type of person the article describes. I can see how being that way can turn someone into a dick.
Jack_42
Posted: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:23:27 AM

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Location: Prague, Czech Republic
I'm a little confused here. Surely the term nice guy is applied to someone who is appealing - has strength of character, consideration for others, is friendly but not gushing etc . This is as apposed to a selfish, unfaithful, aggressive and inconsiderate boor? Or is is just a matter of definition? The latter to some may be a nice guy. Most of the comments here seem to think nice guy is used to describe some sort of weak sycophantic mummy's boy. In the past when I've used the expression about other men it means I consider the guy to be likeable, trustworthy and honourable???
1ball
Posted: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:27:46 PM

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Location: United States
Jack_42 wrote:
I'm a little confused here. Surely the term nice guy is applied to someone who is appealing - has strength of character, consideration for others, is friendly but not gushing etc . This is as apposed to a selfish, unfaithful, aggressive and inconsiderate boor? Or is is just a matter of definition? The latter to some may be a nice guy. Most of the comments here seem to think nice guy is used to describe some sort of weak sycophantic mummy's boy. In the past when I've used the expression about other men it means I consider the guy to be likeable, trustworthy and honourable???


I think you have to go back to high school to understand the meaning of nice guy vs. bad boy. For a high school girl, a nice guy was the one your parents would have hoped you would date and the bad boy was the one who got your dynamo humming. Now fast-forward about 6-10 years. The nice guy is still boring and bad boy is still exciting, but the bad boy experiences have damaged the woman and now she has "issues" and the nice guy has had all that time to get tired of losing out to the bad boy, so he's developed "issues" on top of the "issues" that made him seem acceptable to the parents (like being able to hold a job and being boring).

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:35:09 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 700,402
1ball wrote:


I think you have to go back to high school to understand the meaning of nice guy vs. bad boy. For a high school girl, a nice guy was the one your parents would have hoped you would date and the bad boy was the one who got your dynamo humming. Now fast-forward about 6-10 years. The nice guy is still boring and bad boy is still exciting, but the bad boy experiences have damaged the woman and now she has "issues" and the nice guy has had all that time to get tired of losing out to the bad boy, so he's developed "issues" on top of the "issues" that made him seem acceptable to the parents (like being able to hold a job and being boring).


Ha hs... Exactly... sum it up, whatever side of the fence you are on, you screwed... We all have issues!!!
Jack_42
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:07:33 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/21/2009
Posts: 1,051
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
1ball wrote:


I think you have to go back to high school to understand the meaning of nice guy vs. bad boy. For a high school girl, a nice guy was the one your parents would have hoped you would date and the bad boy was the one who got your dynamo humming. Now fast-forward about 6-10 years. The nice guy is still boring and bad boy is still exciting, but the bad boy experiences have damaged the woman and now she has "issues" and the nice guy has had all that time to get tired of losing out to the bad boy, so he's developed "issues" on top of the "issues" that made him seem acceptable to the parents (like being able to hold a job and being boring).



Never went to high school - joined the air force when I was 15 and nearly all of us spent our time being the above definitions of bad boys. Different terminology possible cultural and generationwise too. Seems to me nice guy in this context is some conventional and respectable person yawn. Rather than an adventurous and exciting type. In my my mind you see you can be a socially conventional guy and be a wife beater on the other hand you can be a considerate caring yet risk taking racing driver the latter being in my terms a nice guy.
Guest
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 2:17:15 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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I've been to hell and back on this very topic for a good portion of my life. I've been the clingy doormat and I've been the miserable jerk. I've gone to great lengths to SAVE a woman and it turned out that I didn't really like her or myself. I almost feel doomed except for the fact that I do treat women and myself with respect. I've learned how to communicate and how to just listen. I see things about myself and others that I never really would have taken notice of 15 yrs ago...Hell in some cases last week......

It boils down (to me) that what is important is that if you don't care, don't go there, if you place up above she'll fly like a dove. If you're loving and kind it can be so divine......

Learn about the people you associate with. This doesn't even have to be about sex at all.......It can be business a neighbor a relative or even one of your own kids. Be the type of person you can be proud of and you'll see how many will be proud of you.
1ball
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 9:10:23 AM

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Joined: 9/13/2011
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Location: United States
Jack_42 wrote:
Never went to high school - joined the air force when I was 15 and nearly all of us spent our time being the above definitions of bad boys. Different terminology possible cultural and generationwise too. Seems to me nice guy in this context is some conventional and respectable person yawn. Rather than an adventurous and exciting type. In my my mind you see you can be a socially conventional guy and be a wife beater on the other hand you can be a considerate caring yet risk taking racing driver the latter being in my terms a nice guy.


This sounds like a cultural thing. Two factors are import to the teen girl in English-speaking cultures. The first is her status among her peers, other girls. The second is her relationship to her parents. These two things drive which guys are exciting to her, because the right guy can boost her status and, for many women, be a weapon in her war for independence from her dominant parent or from both parents. So if daddy is the ogre and wouldn't mind his daughter dating a racing driver, that makes racing drivers boring.

Maturing in her choices of who to associate with is often contrary to what turns her on sexually. Some women never become receptive to men who are good for them. Some don't until the men they've been shunning are fed up with women who've been abused emotionally by bad boys and have become unwilling to commit or so pathetic that it takes a saint to tolerate them. That's why Prozac and its descendant anti-depressant drugs are such staples of the drug industry.

Many women will disagree that this description applies to them, but they all know women who it does apply to. It's all a matter of degree. Some never had a war with their parents. Some didn't conform to the peer pressure. But to some degree, almost all of them were influenced by both factors. Guys had their own issues with their peers and parents.


My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
Jack_42
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:02:56 PM

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Joined: 8/21/2009
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Location: Prague, Czech Republic
1ball wrote:


This sounds like a cultural thing. Two factors are import to the teen girl in English-speaking cultures. The first is her status among her peers, other girls. The second is her relationship to her parents. These two things drive which guys are exciting to her, because the right guy can boost her status and, for many women, be a weapon in her war for independence from her dominant parent or from both parents. So if daddy is the ogre and wouldn't mind his daughter dating a racing driver, that makes racing drivers boring.

Maturing in her choices of who to associate with is often contrary to what turns her on sexually. Some women never become receptive to men who are good for them. Some don't until the men they've been shunning are fed up with women who've been abused emotionally by bad boys and have become unwilling to commit or so pathetic that it takes a saint to tolerate them. That's why Prozac and its descendant anti-depressant drugs are such staples of the drug industry.

Many women will disagree that this description applies to them, but they all know women who it does apply to. It's all a matter of degree. Some never had a war with their parents. Some didn't conform to the peer pressure. But to some degree, almost all of them were influenced by both factors. Guys had their own issues with their peers and parents.


[I now wonder if this parental guidance thing re prospective partners is something mothers teach their daughters rather than male parents. Apart from my mother my family household was all male (5 of us) and there was never any emphasis on suitable future partners. It was a very egalitarian household though apart from the WWII generation's usual ambivalent hang up re premarital sex. We were never allowed to develop any racist or other forms of bigotry but this was not presented in a preachy way more by behaviour example. This was in the North East of the UK by the way.]
1ball
Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:16:45 PM

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Jack_42 wrote:
[I now wonder if this parental guidance thing re prospective partners is something mothers teach their daughters rather than male parents. Apart from my mother my family household was all male (5 of us) and there was never any emphasis on suitable future partners. It was a very egalitarian household though apart from the WWII generation's usual ambivalent hang up re premarital sex. We were never allowed to develop any racist or other forms of bigotry but this was not presented in a preachy way more by behaviour example. This was in the North East of the UK by the way.]


I think both mothers and fathers try to keep their daughters from bad boys, premarital pregnancy, and poverty. But I think a lot of cultural influences merged in a perfect storm to form this dysfunctional bad boy - nice guy sexual attraction issue. If you ever saw the film American Graffiti, it was present there. Some of the influences included drive-in movies, Rock 'n' Roll music, motorcycle gangs, drugs, anti-heroes like James Dean, and writers like Kerouac and Kesey. Of course, before all those, there was always the rich guy vs. poor guy distinction but it didn't become cool to be the bad boy, the rebel, the one who could take the girl away from the sleepy life of suburbia, until about the late 1950s. It's been going strong ever since. The women's liberation movement and access to The Pill and the subsequent sexual revolution contributed. Now you've got a lot of sexually liberated sexually frustrated women with relationship issues in a cycle of self-abuse by virtue of falling for guys who don't respect them while being unable to overcome the damage they wrought on guys who used to.

I don't know how much of this was centered in the US and Canada, but judging from films made in the UK and Oz, it's definitely there.




My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:45:51 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 700,402
I don't really see how being "nice" is the same as being "insecure" or a "loser." Does that mean that all insecure women are losers too? A man or a woman can be nice and still have abundant confidence. True kindness comes out of strength, and what you describe in that rather shallow article you posted is merely manipulation based on a lack of ablility to win attention and affection in another way. Kindness, being "nice," and servility don't go hand in hand. There are emotionally needy people and people who try to be pleasing to win affection, and maybe that's not admirable, but it doesn't mean that someone who shows kindness is weak or fawning due to lacking a sense of self-worth. I really do think you're comparing apples and oranges and saying they are the same.
overmykneenow
Posted: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:56:11 AM

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I love this thread - the delicious irony of people getting uppity because they're "nice" and not in the least bit insecure.

You are being ironic, right?

Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

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Poppet
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 7:40:10 PM

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Joined: 10/5/2012
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Location: In Your Dirty Fantasies, United States
Right then…

So, I read the article and find it funny how that someone can think that ONE person can be all these things. Unless they have a split personality I’m thinking not. Neither man nor no women is perfect.

I’m so sick of seeing how men are such pricks and that all they do is cares for themselves. Yes, some men are like this but that doesn't make all men this way. Some men have grown up or been taught away or have a defense around them to make them the way they are. Is it the right way to go about life? I’m guessing not because it seems like a crap life to me. At least some men know what they want and will either avoid women and just live their lives the way they want, or some will use women like dirty whores because that is all they see them as. But, not all men are like either of this. Some are content in trying to find someone who makes them happy. Even if they grew up twisted, or been taught wrong, or had a bad hand in life with women before. They keep trying because they have hope.

As for women.. Women are cold heart selfish bitches who expect men to bow down to them and do as they please because this isn't the old days where men are on top. But you know what? That doesn't mean we need to completely flip it around and make men the bottoms. Women shouldn't have to bottom anymore this is the year 2012 for the love of all that is sane! But that doesn't mean oh well if women don’t need to bottom, Men must. No! How about some equal damn rights!!!! That’s all women wanted in the first place and then got on a power trip and took it to damn far. Again, I say this not all women are this way but enough. Women have been raised, gone through the same hurt, or been twisted up just as much the next person including men. That doesn't mean you need to go on some power trip and act like a crazed loony.

Why can’t men and women be the same? Stand side by side. Viewed as the same. We are all after all, human. Aren't we? No gender is higher than another, No race, no age, nothing. We’re all the same. We as people need to become aware of this and take it into action and start treating everyone the same. Get with the program people. And Stop harping on people because they don’t feel the SAME as you. They have the right to their own option even if you don’t agree with them. Which is why I’m not calling any “one” person out, or using names. It just needed to be said.


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