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Are intelligent people less likely to believe in god.....? Options · View
DamonX
Posted: Thursday, October 7, 2010 5:12:24 PM

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Guest
Posted: Thursday, October 7, 2010 6:25:52 PM

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I don't think it's a sign of intelligence, but just a sign that we are getting further away from allowing our daily lives and overall outlook on life to be defined by the church (whichever is yours). With the increase of access to information, either by the internet or otherwise, we are realizing that there may not be a god. Science channel, discovery channel, internet info, all of these always leave a tinge of doubt, or even hope for some, that there is an answer. However, even the unlearned person can start questioning as long as the basic needs to survive are being met and the question then turns to what has the church done for me. "What have you done for me lately," to paraphrase Ms. Jackson, if you're nasty.

The continued abuses by the church and religious factions does not help either.

In the past, the church could feed the poor, give alms to the poor, help the surrounding population, and in return recipients would be "taught" about the word. The word, has no weight now, and to their own detriment it has become synonymous with abuses in every conceivable way. No matter how intelligent one is, it don't take a genius to figure out that god ain't gonna be there for 'ya. Yes, it may be the unexplainable force behind some events in our lives, but in the end, are we gonna wait for it and believe in it? As time goes by, religion/belief fails. The care of our own fellow human beings and in some instances governmental programs is what saves. The church cannot do so anymore in most arenas, and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, October 7, 2010 8:13:24 PM

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“The most beautiful and most profound emotion we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior Reasoning Power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible Universe, forms my idea of God.” -- Albert Einstein


“Both religion and science need for their activities the belief in God, and moreover God stands for the former in the beginning, and for the latter at the end of the whole thinking. For the former, God represents the basis, for the latter - the crown of any reasoning concerning the world-view.” -- Max Planck


“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.” -- Werner Heisenberg


¨ In the presentation of a scientific problem, the other player is the good Lord. He has not only set the problem but also has devised the rules of the game - but they are not completely known, half of them are left for you to discover or to deduce. …The uncertainty is how many of the rules God himself has permanently ordained, and how many apparently are caused by your own mental inertia, while the solution generally becomes possible only through freedom from its limitations. This is perhaps the most exciting thing in the game.” -- Erwin Schroedinger


“It pains me as much as it did Kelvin ‘to hear crudely atheistic views expressed by men who have never known the deeper side of existence.’ Let me, then, henceforth use the word God to describe that which is behind the mystery of existence and that which gives meaning to it. I think you will not misunderstand me, then, when I say that I have never known a thinking man who did not believe in God.” -- Robert Millikin


“Christ’s rule and example showed God as our Father and us as His children, a society in which love governs all. Then if we seek a rule of conduct we should think of what we should like children to be like and what we should wish them to do. We like them to be hardworking, eager, cheerful, sympathetic. We like them to enjoy themselves thoroughly. We must be sad and in pain sometimes, but let us be happy as much and whenever we can, and whilst we are well and happy let us help all who are not. The more we strive to enjoy ourselves the more happiness we shall be able to communicate to others. For we trust that this life is a preparation: not a final probation.” -- Sir William H. Bragg


“We come to exist through a divine act. That divine guidance is a theme throughout our life; at our death the brain goes, but that divine guidance and love continues. Each of us is a unique, conscious being, a divine creation. It is the religious view. It is the only view consistent with all the evidence.” -- Sir John Eccles


“I would rather believe in fairies than in such wild speculation. …I have said for years that speculations about the origin of life lead to no useful purpose as even the simplest living system is far too complex to be understood in terms of the extremely primitive chemistry scientists have used in their attempts to explain the unexplainable that happened billions of years ago. God cannot be explained away by such naive thoughts.” -- Sir Ernst Chain


“God is Truth. There is no incompatibility between science and religion. Both are seeking the same truth. Science shows that God exists.” -- Sir Derek Barton

Rembacher
Posted: Thursday, October 7, 2010 8:33:25 PM

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My cousin, the smartest man I know, or probably ever will meet, believes in God, so I find it hard to believe that intelligence has anything to do with a belief in God. Admittedly, he could be the exception to the rule, but I don't believe he is.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, October 7, 2010 9:29:05 PM

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Gentlemen, do not delve into what has been foretold and arguably clouded in conjecture. "To thine own self be true."
DamonX
Posted: Thursday, October 7, 2010 10:11:22 PM

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Quote:
“The most beautiful and most profound emotion we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior Reasoning Power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible Universe, forms my idea of God.” -- Albert Einstein


Ahh...quote mining. The last tool of the ignorant and ill-informed.

So nudie...I'm guess that your response to the questions is...no?

I could go on explaining that Einstein did not believe in god and that in his life, he actually got pretty pissed off when theists used his statements to bloster their weak arguments by misinterpreting them...but...that would be missing the point.

As you have missed the point. Maybe you have misunderstood? I don't recall anyone stating that smart people can't believe in a god. The question is..."are intelligent people less likely to believe in god?" (Pursue the einstein aspect though if you want) Or maybe we could each collect as many quotes as we can, and the one who gets the most is the winner!


Quote:
My cousin, the smartest man I know, or probably ever will meet, believes in God, so I find it hard to believe that intelligence has anything to do with a belief in God. Admittedly, he could be the exception to the rule, but I don't believe he is.


Wow! Case closed! Another example of airtight logical, reasoning. How are you not embarrassed to make this argument? This one is actually worse than your kindey/god justification.

Whales are mammals, and whales live in the ocean...so all mammals must live in the ocean right? happy8

Correlation, guys. Look it up. Or just ask Jebru's cousin....happy1
She
Posted: Thursday, October 7, 2010 10:41:25 PM

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DamonX wrote:
Are intelligent people less likely to believe in god?


Of course, because inteligent people ask questions, inteligent people do not have sheep affect, inteligent people are open minded, inteligent people question authorities, they are making choices about everything based on their comon senses, making mistakes and learning from them...
Great accomplishmets were made by very smart and inteligent people because they questioned everything that existed in that point, like Einstein did.

Believing in God just because someone say I should or shouldn't do it is not reflection of inteligence,
and if it was someone's personal choice I do apologize and would like vey much to know based on what did they make that choice to believe in God.

oh and being smart has nothing to do with inteligentsia it mean that they studied a lot..
nicola
Posted: Thursday, October 7, 2010 11:05:02 PM

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I don't know anyone in my close circle of (offline) friends who believes in god, or who would consider themselves religious. Most of them are of a degree level education or higher.

I am quite surprised so many here professed to believe in god in the thread I started.

Each to their own though, I don't wish to impose my views on people. It's a shame others don't feel the same way when knocking on my door at the weekends bible thumping. In fact that's another good thread topic in its own right.
Guest
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 4:00:59 AM

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Let’s set aside the arguments that the IQ method of testing is a crock of seagull crap.
For the article to suggest that people with higher IQ’s, such as academics, don’t believe in god simply because they’re smarter and, along with all the implications that that carries, have simply made a better informed choice is, for lack of a better word, stupid.

As Professor Gordon Lynch said, it fails to take in mitigating factors that may have affected the outcome of the survey. It’s always the little details that give the key to the bigger picture.

Aside from the arguments that the average human is more intelligent, I would like to bring to the table that the attitudes of society in general have changed towards institutions like the church. It is no longer a must on a Sunday morning or afternoon, just like there are no longer stares and whispers from your neighbours if you wear a skirt that sits above your ankle.
Like many other things the church has fallen to the relaxed attitudes of modern generations. I mean, I remember when Catholics used to spit on unwed mothers (I lived in a suburb with a lot of Italians as a kid…) and now there are splinter groups of the faith that welcome homosexuals, single parents and a mass of other people who would have been run out of any god fearing town 50 years ago.

For my part in the whole debate, or for anyone who gives a crap about where I stand on a personal level, I’ve been informed that I’m ‘ignostic’, which apparently means you do the right thing because you think it’s the right thing to do.
I’m not really one for labels but I’ve gotta say, if someone can monitor their own behaviour and truly make the divide between right and wrong without getting caught up in the petty little things in-between (and without having these morals enforced by the fear that you’re going to spend your afterlife in a fiery pit getting poked by little red dudes with horns), they’re truly worthy of the title of ‘Intelligent’, and pretty much ‘all ‘round decent human being’.

I should probably note that my own moral compass doesn’t exactly point north and I don’t consider myself a candidate for either of the aforementioned categories.
As wise Nicola said – each to their own. It’s what makes the world interesting and bus rides just that little bit more entertaining.

XX
BB
mercianknight
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 6:00:44 AM

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Well said Betty-Bea (Nicola too, of course). thumbup

I think I've made it quite clear that I am an agnostic (sat on the fence), however, it would be remiss of me not to give credit to religion (and by extension God?) for providing me with my moral compass and what I loosely term 'christian values'.

Nevertheless, in answer to the original question, I support the notion that intelligent people are 'less likely to believe' in God whilst also stating that that does NOT necessarily mean they will be aethists.
study

"Whoa, lady, I only speak two languages, English and bad English." - Korben Dallas, from The Fifth Element

"If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must man be of learning from experience?" - George Bernard Shaw
Guest
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 6:46:15 AM

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Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble.

Joseph Campbell
Guest
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 6:47:47 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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DamonX wrote:
Quote:
“The most beautiful and most profound emotion we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior Reasoning Power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible Universe, forms my idea of God.” -- Albert Einstein


Ahh...quote mining. The last tool of the ignorant and ill-informed.

So nudie...I'm guess that your response to the questions is...no?

I could go on explaining that Einstein did not believe in god and that in his life, he actually got pretty pissed off when theists used his statements to bloster their weak arguments by misinterpreting them...but...that would be missing the point.

As you have missed the point. Maybe you have misunderstood? I don't recall anyone stating that smart people can't believe in a god. The question is..."are intelligent people less likely to believe in god?" (Pursue the einstein aspect though if you want) Or maybe we could each collect as many quotes as we can, and the one who gets the most is the winner!


Quote:
My cousin, the smartest man I know, or probably ever will meet, believes in God, so I find it hard to believe that intelligence has anything to do with a belief in God. Admittedly, he could be the exception to the rule, but I don't believe he is.


Wow! Case closed! Another example of airtight logical, reasoning. How are you not embarrassed to make this argument? This one is actually worse than your kindey/god justification.

Whales are mammals, and whales live in the ocean...so all mammals must live in the ocean right? happy8

Correlation, guys. Look it up. Or just ask Jebru's cousin....happy1



do you ask these questions just so you can slap down people who have a different opinions than yours? i too know a super smart person and he believes devoutly. belief is not always about brain, its about heart..about faith. faith is sometimes a choice. ben franklin, a very smart man im sure you will agree, did believe in god.

but really, wtf is the point of posing these questions damon? i dont believe its to start intelligent discourse so then is it target practice?
MrNudiePants
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 7:13:54 AM

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DamonX wrote:
Quote:
“The most beautiful and most profound emotion we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior Reasoning Power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible Universe, forms my idea of God.” -- Albert Einstein


Ahh...quote mining. The last tool of the ignorant and ill-informed.

So nudie...I'm guess that your response to the questions is...no?

I could go on explaining that Einstein did not believe in god and that in his life, he actually got pretty pissed off when theists used his statements to bloster their weak arguments by misinterpreting them...but...that would be missing the point.

As you have missed the point. Maybe you have misunderstood? I don't recall anyone stating that smart people can't believe in a god. The question is..."are intelligent people less likely to believe in god?" (Pursue the einstein aspect though if you want) Or maybe we could each collect as many quotes as we can, and the one who gets the most is the winner!


Quote:
My cousin, the smartest man I know, or probably ever will meet, believes in God, so I find it hard to believe that intelligence has anything to do with a belief in God. Admittedly, he could be the exception to the rule, but I don't believe he is.


Wow! Case closed! Another example of airtight logical, reasoning. How are you not embarrassed to make this argument? This one is actually worse than your kindey/god justification.

Whales are mammals, and whales live in the ocean...so all mammals must live in the ocean right? happy8

Correlation, guys. Look it up. Or just ask Jebru's cousin....happy1


Once again, dames, you've missed the point completely. Not unusual for you, although I expect better from someone who claims to be as "intelligent" as you do.

There are intelligent people that do believe in God, and there are intelligent people that don't. Based on the evidence presented, you are neither. Einstein used the term "God" over and over, in his correspondence and in his lectures, and did say that there are things in the universe that he does indeed equate to "god". Did I ever claim that Einstein believed in the Judeo-Christian construct "God" that I believe in? No, I didn't. In your original question, did you specify that you're only looking for answers regarding beliefs relating to that God? No, you didn't.

Why don't you go read through this entire thread a couple more times.

Quote:

In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views.

-- Statement to German anti-Nazi diplomat and author Prince Hubertus zu Lowenstein around 1941, as quoted in his book Towards the Further Shore : An Autobiography (1968)


You'll get it eventually.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 7:27:32 AM

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LittleMissBitch wrote:
DamonX wrote:
Quote:
“The most beautiful and most profound emotion we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior Reasoning Power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible Universe, forms my idea of God.” -- Albert Einstein


Ahh...quote mining. The last tool of the ignorant and ill-informed.


but really, wtf is the point of posing these questions damon? i dont believe its to start intelligent discourse so then is it target practice?


Ding Ding Ding ... We have a winner!

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
OldGeezer
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 7:33:31 AM

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If you follow Stephen Hawking, there is an explanation for everything other than when the Big Bang happened, a physcial phenomenon came into existance, namely graviational force. Without that there would be nothing of the Universe as we understand it today. So is "God", gravity?

Of course not, it is just another thing that we dont yet understand.

God is just the human animal's way of not having to worry about things they can't explain, and that changes over time as jumans find out more. Forget religions and all that other stuff, they are just human embroidering on the God theme, and working out their moral codes.

But don't look down on people that believe, either in God (which one?) or a religion (again, which one?). Their moral codes are prescribed, but it gives them a compass with which to steer their lives. No bad thing at all.

Just not for me, instead I have a simple maxim, do what you like, with anyone, for any reason, anyhow, but don't cause harm - mental or physical - to anyone or anything.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 8:13:55 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
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OldGeezer wrote:
Just not for me, instead I have a simple maxim, do what you like, with anyone, for any reason, anyhow, but don't cause harm - mental or physical - to anyone or anything.


Sounds good to me, Geezer.

I've always felt that people have a right to do anything they want, as long as they inflict no harm upon others. In other words; your rights to seek pleasures - cease, where they impinge upon my rights to do the same.

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
She
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 9:39:37 AM

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Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 2,628
Betty-Bea wrote:

Like many other things the church has fallen to the relaxed attitudes of modern generations. I mean, I remember when Catholics used to spit on unwed mothers (I lived in a suburb with a lot of Italians as a kid…) and now there are splinter groups of the faith that welcome homosexuals, single parents and a mass of other people who would have been run out of any god fearing town 50 years ago.


You are saying that institution of church is a good thing because it finaly accepted over 2000 years that people are different, like you are saying? You don't maybe think that institution of church changed because it needs new yung people who will raise their children into new believers in God? You don't maybe think that people changed and church didn't except them, humiliated them refuse to give a help because they are different?
It changed after it lost a lot of church goers and it happend just recently, it is all about money and power.


Betty-Bea wrote:
Let’s set aside the arguments that the IQ method of testing is a crock of seagull crap.


And based on what did you conclude with that statement? You know that word is not about internet IQ tests?
Guest
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 9:40:30 AM

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everyone has the right to feel comfortable..to follow the beliefs and feelings of their heart and it has nothing to do with intelligence. i think a true sign of intelligence is not IQ or belief or non belief in god but realizing we are all different and allowing acceptance and tolerance of this fact into our lives. i do think when we cause bluster and go around telling people how stupid or inane they are for their belief systems it shows a definite lack of maturity and for sure the absence of wisdom. it seems to me , people like that may be suffering from low self esteem and lack of confidence in their own beliefs. when we are quiet, and listen to others, open ourselves to different thoughts wisdom can then be gained.

here is another question..what happens when intelligence is not tempered by wisdom?

Dancing_Doll
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 10:21:30 AM

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I think that 'tolerance' can very easily become a dangerous word.

If one assumes that we should all be tolerant of everyone's beliefs at any cost then I think that's the same as turning a blind eye to reality.

Lots of people assumed an air of tolerance when it came to Jim Jones' "The People's Temple" and let his followers practice their faith, until they were convinced that mass suicide was God's will, and over 900 believers (including children) were dead. There are countless examples of "tolerance gone wrong" (eg. Salem Witch Trials, perversions of Islam (Al-Qaeda), perversion of Christianity (KKK), and even looking the more recent Warren Jeff's Polygamist cult). So should we then let them practice whatever they want, because it's wrong to interfere in one's faith?

The Church as an institution has been responsible for countless atrocities, wars, and abuse carried out in the name of faith.

Corruption relies on people being afraid to demand critical thinking, or suggest that someone's belief system is flawed because if something is based on "faith" it's supposed to be respected and tolerated at all costs.

The "slippery slope" arguments can very easily be applied here.


Guest
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 10:32:31 AM

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Dancing_Doll wrote:
\

If one assumes that we should all be tolerant of everyone's beliefs at any cost then I think that's the same as turning a blind eye to reality.


did you really get that from what i said doll? no one said "at any cost" and no one should tolerate abuse or atrocities. but damon wont tolerate even a different opinion. he starts these threads so he can show off his intelligence but he has no wisdom to temper it. he could use a good dose of tolerance. or go back to kindergarten and re-learn some basic lessons. seems he gets away with it a lot too. saying whatever bullshit he likes with no thought to others. i honestly believe he thinks he is a "gad fly" for society like plato. he's not. i for one am sick of watching him slap people around.

and ladyx i know i am violating the directive of not making personal addresses....sorry for that but damon should not be the only one who gets to hit. the "bitch" in my name is not there by accident ;-)
MrNudiePants
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 10:39:05 AM

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Dancing_Doll wrote:
I think that 'tolerance' can very easily become a dangerous word.

If one assumes that we should all be tolerant of everyone's beliefs at any cost then I think that's the same as turning a blind eye to reality.

Lots of people assumed an air of tolerance when it came to Jim Jones' "The People's Temple" and let his followers practice their faith, until they were convinced that mass suicide was God's will, and over 900 believers (including children) were dead. There are countless examples of "tolerance gone wrong" (eg. Salem Witch Trials, perversions of Islam (Al-Qaeda), perversion of Christianity (KKK), and even looking the more recent Warren Jeff's Polygamist cult). So should we then let them practice whatever they want, because it's wrong to interfere in one's faith?

The Church as an institution has been responsible for countless atrocities, wars, and abuse carried out in the name of faith.

Corruption relies on people being afraid to demand critical thinking, or suggest that someone's belief system is flawed because if something is based on "faith" it's supposed to be respected and tolerated at all costs.

The "slippery slope" arguments can very easily be applied here.


Nobody is saying that you have to respect another person's faith "at any cost". There are plenty of examples of religious practices being outlawed for health or safety reasons. Nobody here, at least. The questions for this thread would be, "Was Jim Jones an intelligent man? Was he devout in his thinking, or was he a faker?" Intelligent people can use religion for nefarious purposes, and have all throughout history. None of which bears any relation to what this thread is about.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 11:20:13 AM

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LittleMissBitch wrote:
i think a true sign of intelligence is not IQ or belief or non belief in god but realizing we are all different and allowing acceptance and tolerance of this fact into our lives.



I was merely responding to this statement, although i should have quoted it outright. I do not believe that a true sign of intelligence is tolerance. I mean that statement strictly within the context of religious belief systems (not based on race, or sexual orientation), with the reason being that it is based on faith over fact. Without the requirement of facts and evidence, anything can be twisted and perverted quite easily. Faith can be anything you want it to be. Tolerance of erroneous thinking processes is not something I would applaud only because of the potential for the slippery slope argument. I'm not saying it happens in every circumstance. But with less intelligence, people tend to be more prone to believing whatever a perceived higher authority tells them (like a religious institution, or a parent, or some other authority figure). That is not to say that an intelligent person cannot believe in God... there are lots of "outliers" on both sides, but I'm speaking more about generalities. Sooo... to bring it back to the question posed in this thread... it does not surprise me that the higher the IQ, the more likely a person will have advanced critical thinking skills, and therefore the more likely they will be to reject/refute irrational belief systems.

As for the rest of the butt-hurt comments... Well, that's why they call the Think Tank "Adult-Swim"... I really haven't seen the mud-slinging as a one-sided situation in here. Everyone gets confronted/attacked within these debates (Damon included)... The only difference is that some people complain/whine about it, and others don't.



MrNudiePants
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 11:58:23 AM

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Dancing_Doll wrote:

But with less intelligence, people tend to be more prone to believing whatever a perceived higher authority tells them (like a religious institution, or a parent, or some other authority figure). That is not to say that an intelligent person cannot believe in God... there are lots of "outliers" on both sides, but I'm speaking more about generalities. Sooo... to bring it back to the question posed in this thread... it does not surprise me that the higher the IQ, the more likely a person will have advanced critical thinking skills, and therefore the more likely they will be to reject/refute irrational belief systems.



I do have to agree with the first part of this. The world is chock full of people that only believe what their leaders tell them. Those leaders might be religious leaders, political leaders, or the neighborhood policeman. In some areas of the Muslim world, the population either isn't allowed to read, or doesn't have the luxury of owning, a Koran. Yet they're still devout followers of Islam (Islam in this case being whatever their Imam defines it as). That's less a criticism of the religion than it is of the Imam. Historically, religion (and religious books) were the main sources of education for much of the world's population. When Frederick Douglass first began teaching his fellow slaves to read, he did it using the Holy Bible. I doubt he cared much whether it was the King James version or some other.

As for the second part of this quote, the one concerning "generalities"... I'm not much concerned over what the general public thinks or doesn't think. What they do or don't do. Dames is the only person in the last decade or so that's negatively criticized my "critical thinking skills", yet I'm still a believer. Am I the rule, or the exception? I'll leave that to God to figure out. In the end, when all is said and done, He's the only real critic that has any importance.
DirtyMartini
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 1:19:49 PM

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I consider myself fairly intelligent, and I know, I hide that fact well sometimes...I also happen to believe in God...
I really can't believe that humans are the most intelligent things in the universe...
And reading the Lush forums sometimes only confirms my beliefs...


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Guest
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 1:34:40 PM

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There is no link between intelligence and belief. Infact intelligent people can be small minded, selfish, cruel , ect, intelligence does not bestow any particular quality on the person apart from intelligence.
Don't over rate it.
Guest
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 2:07:36 PM

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Dancing_Doll wrote:
LittleMissBitch wrote:
i think a true sign of intelligence is not IQ or belief or non belief in god but realizing we are all different and allowing acceptance and tolerance of this fact into our lives.



I was merely responding to this statement, although i should have quoted it outright. I do not believe that a true sign of intelligence is tolerance. I mean that statement strictly within the context of religious belief systems (not based on race, or sexual orientation), with the reason being that it is based on faith over fact. Without the requirement of facts and evidence, anything can be twisted and perverted quite easily. Faith can be anything you want it to be. Tolerance of erroneous thinking processes is not something I would applaud only because of the potential for the slippery slope argument. I'm not saying it happens in every circumstance. But with less intelligence, people tend to be more prone to believing whatever a perceived higher authority tells them (like a religious institution, or a parent, or some other authority figure). That is not to say that an intelligent person cannot believe in God... there are lots of "outliers" on both sides, but I'm speaking more about generalities. Sooo... to bring it back to the question posed in this thread... it does not surprise me that the higher the IQ, the more likely a person will have advanced critical thinking skills, and therefore the more likely they will be to reject/refute irrational belief systems.

As for the rest of the butt-hurt comments... Well, that's why they call the Think Tank "Adult-Swim"... I really haven't seen the mud-slinging as a one-sided situation in here. Everyone gets confronted/attacked within these debates (Damon included)... The only difference is that some people complain/whine about it, and others don't.


once again doll, i did not mean blind tolerance. but, ask, me the most intolerant unaccepting people are the most stupid..like Phelps. and that statement was not in the strict context of religious belief systems. it was directed at damon to be more tolerant and accepting of people here and our differing opinions. he seems to think his opinion is the only opinion and woe to those who disagree as they seem to incur his wrath. clearly he likes taking shots at others, and im sure most everyone will agree to that statement. it would be nice if he opened his hermetically sealed mind once in awhile as clearly he has a lot of maturing to do, and maybe some of us can be of assistance.

i agree with you that its no surprise that more intelligent people fall into the atheist or agnostic category as we dont believe everything we are told and have questions, and find most religious texts lacking in answers. so ill repeat myself, again. faith and belief is not about brain but about heart and how you FEEL. there are many intelligent people that CHOOSE to believe in god because its what they want, maybe not what they can prove.

i dont understand why "adult swim" keeps getting translated as permission to bully but it seems to. and its well and good that damon doesnt cry when he gets attacked cuz its always him throwing the first punch. were he to cry we'd descend upon him for being a hypocrite and hes at least smart enough to know that. ill add this though, Damon should go back to the shallow end of the pool cuz his incessant child like splashing is annoying the grown ups who would like to engage in intelligent discourse and exchange of ideas...which really is the point of Adult Swim if you ask me.

and doll, you know i have the utmost respect and admiration for you so i hope no hard feelings here..
Bunny12
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 2:45:10 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 1,028
Location: My own little world, United States
I think highly intelligent people are less likely to believe in organized religion but many do believe in a higher power just not the twisted versions many religions would have you believe.

Bunny12


Bunny Rabbits cute and fuzzy they want to love you but they have razor sharp teeth - don't piss them off!
Jacknife
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 3:28:15 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/27/2008
Posts: 197
Location: United Kingdom
Exakta66 wrote:
I consider myself fairly intelligent, and I know, I hide that fact well sometimes...I also happen to believe in God...
I really can't believe that humans are the most intelligent things in the universe...
And reading the Lush forums sometimes only confirms my beliefs...


How do you link whether you believe in God to whether you think humans are the most intelligent thing in the universe?
WellMadeMale
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 3:43:45 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,801
Location: Cakeland, United States
I would guestimate that the Phelps clan of Topeka, Kansas are a fairly intelligent subset of humans. Almost all of them hold legal degrees and almost all of them know how to exploit legal loopholes.

Clever and intelligent, cunning and manipulative, mean-spirited and advantageous. I don't really believe that any of them actually practice any of the more commonly recognized Christian faiths.

With their collective intelligence, they (The Phelps') claim to be true believers, but their actions and deeds, speak much louder than do their hollow and spiteful words.

Matthew 7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matthew 7:20
Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
James 2:18
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

I can copy & paste too, when it suits me. geek

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 4:21:35 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 7,183
Location: Your dirty fantasy
LittleMissBitch wrote:


once again doll, i did not mean blind tolerance. but, ask, me the most intolerant unaccepting people are the most stupid..like Phelps. and that statement was not in the strict context of religious belief systems. it was directed at damon to be more tolerant and accepting of people here and our differing opinions.


Yeah, I know what you meant. I was just choosing to respond to it in a less direct, and less inflammatory way. And in a way that brought it back to the original topic. icon_smile

LittleMissBitch wrote:

he seems to think his opinion is the only opinion and woe to those who disagree as they seem to incur his wrath. clearly he likes taking shots at others, and im sure most everyone will agree to that statement.



This is the point of debate though isn't it? To state an opinion and then defend it and argue against it? Otherwise we are just posting and walking away, without any interaction... which I think is one of the draws of the Think Tank, and what is meant by Adult Swim. The people that debate in here are the regulars who are assumed to have "thicker skins".

LittleMissBitch wrote:


i dont understand why "adult swim" keeps getting translated as permission to bully but it seems to. and its well and good that damon doesnt cry when he gets attacked cuz its always him throwing the first punch. were he to cry we'd descend upon him for being a hypocrite and hes at least smart enough to know that. ill add this though, Damon should go back to the shallow end of the pool cuz his incessant child like splashing is annoying the grown ups who would like to engage in intelligent discourse and exchange of ideas...which really is the point of Adult Swim if you ask me.


I think some people enjoy a bit of splashing now and then. It prevents the Tank from feeling like low-impact water aerobics at the geriatric centre. Still, some people might need to wear water-wings if the waves make them nervous. The forums certainly become more lively (with more traffic) when certain regulars are active.

LittleMissBitch wrote:

and doll, you know i have the utmost respect and admiration for you so i hope no hard feelings here..


Definitely no hard feelings LMB. You know I enjoy the waves... glasses8


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