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Are intelligent people less likely to believe in god.....? Options · View
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, October 28, 2010 8:40:04 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,328
Location: California
Jebru wrote:
Magical_felix wrote:
14 of 15. I got the one about the Jewish Sabath wrong, I thought it was Saturday. I totally guessed on the Protestant reform question and the last question about the preachers.


It is Saturday, but it starts at sundown Friday night. The wording of the question was designed to trip you up.


Thought so. I get all my Jewish sabath information from the Big Lebowski...dontknow



obscura
Posted: Friday, October 29, 2010 8:17:01 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/10/2010
Posts: 143
Location: Zef Side
Jebru wrote:
I'm curious about your source for this Damon. The line seems a little off. I would expect the slope to be a little less steep due to the block within 5 of the 65% importance range, and between the 100 and 104 IQ range. By my count 18 of the 52 states fall in that range. I'm also curious about the explanation of how North Dakota and Vermont can be so different on religion when their IQs appear to be identical. At the low end, how about Hawaii and Alabama? Same IQ, but a 25% difference in religious importance. All the averages fall within a little over 10 IQ points of each other, is that really a big difference? That's less than a 10% difference in intellegence from one end of the scale to the other. How much difference in intelligence is 10 IQ points?


lolwut.

Firstly, the line looks about in the right place if its using the Ordinary Least Squares technique.

Secondly, if there wasn't disproportion in the IQ vs religeon then all the States would sit on the line of best fit, which would mean that 100% of variation in IQ explains importance of religeon. Which is just not true let alone not possible.

Butterfly
Posted: Friday, October 29, 2010 11:41:57 PM

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Hey, I'll be honest...I screwed up on a few lol. I read the Bible over the years, never said I was an authority on the contents within :).

You answered 10 out of 15 questions correctly
for a score of 67%.
Guest
Posted: Monday, November 01, 2010 7:45:46 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 674,122
Okay ...not too good on that score - 9 out of 15 - so I'll leave this debate to those that have the "higher" understanding/knowledge of a "higher" power. Now ...no bickering please; "Do unto others as you would like done unto yourself" - LOL .....anyone for a massage?
Guest
Posted: Monday, November 01, 2010 4:44:59 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 674,122
Well, everybody done pretty good on that there test.

I don't know if its a sign of intelligence, or just that the more learned/well read may not believe, and that the acceptance of the fact that there are other religions out there may lend to disbelief of one. Was watching a debate last night on CSPAN between Christopher Hitchens and some other guy, and the one thing that struck in my mind is when Hitch talked about how religion being based on the precept of forgoing independent thought. It's odd how intelligent people sometimes regress to their childhood or cultural upbringing when talking about religion and then forgo what has been learned.

For me at least, I lean towards God and religion/spirituality as being a mental crutch and may sometimes stymie intellectual progress.

Oh, and thanks Damon for the nod to Hitchens on another thread. I am enjoying his latest book.
SadBi-Virgin
Posted: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:33:56 PM

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They are less likely to believe and those that don't believe tend to know more about religion the theists.
Woman
Posted: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 6:05:09 AM

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Location: Stopping the war 'tween Harold and Kumar
I was talking about this subject with a friend of mine yesterday, he brought up all these points that the bible said this and the bible said that... and I got to thinking.

Is it a possibility that those that beleive in a God/god etc... are actually be more intelligent than those who don't???

I mean some of my closet friends are physicists... and one stakes the claim that what science doesn't answer the beleif in god does. He is also the one who claims that science is god which is why we do not understand everything just yet. So I wonder. Is it actually a sign of intelligence to beleive in something you cannot see? There there is no absolute proof yet one still knows without a shadow of a doubt that there is a God/god?

This question certainly opened my eyes to the possibility that this might actually be the case!!!!

*points up and emphasises the word "possibility"

Living life and enjoying life are two different things... just need to figure out how to do both at the same time to live it right!

Woman... GO FLY A KITE!!!!! Take a slideshow walk with me on a walk through the parks of Inner Mongolia, China. Then enjoy the tale of a very traditional day in the life of a white Woman in China.
She
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 3:17:31 AM

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Woman wrote:
So I wonder. Is it actually a sign of intelligence to beleive in something you cannot see?


Oh yes, it could be! It is!
BUT it is very contradictory when people belive in sentence you have just posted and in all goodnes of religion. What I am trying to say is that you/we cannot go around and say things like: 'I do believe/trust in science, I do believe in uncharted fields and in the same breath follow one of religions. Does not make sense because religion does not encurage you to improve yourself or world, they just want you to follow their rules. Inteligent people do not follow wihout question being asked, withouth doubts in pritty much everything. I am not saying that we are alone in the universe and that this is the only galaxy that exsists but to believe in god as it exists in religions, it is not sign of inteligence.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 6:29:24 AM

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She wrote:
Does not make sense because religion does not encurage you to improve yourself or world, they just want you to follow their rules. Inteligent people do not follow wihout question being asked, withouth doubts in pritty much everything.


Not true. Most religious organizations invest heavily in improving the world around them. They organize charities that feed the poor, house the homeless, tend to the sick and aged, and provide many other benefits for the underprivileged. In fact, I can't think of a single religious organization that doesn't.

As far as intelligent people not following orders without asking questions, I can think of many intelligent people that were in the Third Reich that followed orders quite blindly. Intelligent doesn't mean good, any more than ignorant means evil.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 6:49:07 AM

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Oberon wrote:
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble.

Joseph Campbell

That is an excellent quote!
She
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:30:33 AM

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MrNudiePants wrote:
She wrote:
Does not make sense because religion does not encurage you to improve yourself or world, they just want you to follow their rules. Inteligent people do not follow wihout question being asked, withouth doubts in pritty much everything.


Not true. Most religious organizations invest heavily in improving the world around them. They organize charities that feed the poor, house the homeless, tend to the sick and aged, and provide many other benefits for the underprivileged. In fact, I can't think of a single religious organization that doesn't.


Yeah,yeah...blah, blah.. All in the service of God? Yeah right! In all of the service of the money, untaxed money for sure, power over people, that did not change they become oriented thowards humanity more than in the past but is it 30, 50 or maybe 70 years enough to trust institution of curch and into their leaders? Please. I do charity, I do offer helpto weak ones around my house but do I rub your nose with it? Like church is!? Every single time news tv and newspapers are full of it, you never asked yourself why? Power over people, money. I am not saying that individual church goers are not good, humble and simple in their beliving but to globalise it I have to say nope, they are no good, no good at all and Chatolic is the worst among them.

Just to make it clear, I did not made a post about human and religion but about science and religion and to top up that, how does church stands with condoms and birth control pils in Africa? They didnt aprove it. Or how did they explain paedophilia in Europe? Let me tell you, they said the priests are not paedophils, they are just homosexuals who like to fuck jung boys. If they changed their statement I do not know, I stoped listening the news.

MrNudiePants wrote:
As far as intelligent people not following orders without asking questions, I can think of many intelligent people that were in the Third Reich that followed orders quite blindly. Intelligent doesn't mean good, any more than ignorant means evil.


Many people were inteligent in the Third Reich? many people were greedy, greedy of power and money.
I know Hitler had IQ above average, that much that he went from brilliant mind to insanity.
And no one said that inteligent mean good and not inteligent (inteligent people can be ignorant as well) are evil, and beside that if you believe in god there is no room to believe in evil, right? God is one and only, so...
MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:47:02 AM

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She wrote:
Just to make it clear, I did not made a post about human and religion but about science and religion...


No, what you said was, "...religion does not encurage you to improve yourself or world, they just want you to follow their rules."

That's not true. I'm not talking about pedophile priests, or condoms in Africa. I'm talking about people right here, in my neighborhood; people that I know personally. People that donate their time, their money, their goods, to help homeless and destitute people. Their religion definitely encourages them to do whatever they can to improve the world around them. Maybe that doesn't fit into your "All religions are evil" point of view, but it's a fact. They don't do it for the money; in fact they give away their own money and get nothing in return except for the feeling that comes from doing good. It doesn't earn them any power over anyone, either. It just feeds people that need to be fed.

She wrote:
Many people were inteligent in the Third Reich? many people were greedy, greedy of power and money.


Is that your answer for everything? money, power, money, power...

Address the point I made. You said that intelligent people don't follow orders without questioning them, and I gave you proof that's not true. Like it or not. You made two points, and you're wrong about both of them. I'm sorry if that upsets you, but maybe you should change the way you think about things instead of getting angry and rude.
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:59:26 AM

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In reference to this latest back-and-forth:

Shouldn't we separate personal faith from blind adherence to organized religion?

She is pointing out flaws- and there are plenty to go around- with organized religion. Over time, I don't think there's much question that they were power structures designed to keep their flock together and the money and labor streaming in. Power corrupts, and unlike taxes, churches aren't exempt from that at all.

But the question here has more to do with individuals who have faith in a "God", and whether that makes them more or less intelligent. People get worked up and talk past each other here, but both of you are right. Churches have, and have always had, bad motives to go with their good ones, and individuals with faith are just as likely to be bright as those who aren't.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:16:14 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,469
Location: Cakeland, United States
LadyX wrote:
In reference to this latest back-and-forth:

Shouldn't we separate personal faith from blind adherence to organized religion?

She is pointing out flaws- and there are plenty to go around- with organized religion. Over time, I don't think there's much question that they were power structures designed to keep their flock together and the money and labor streaming in. Power corrupts, and unlike taxes, churches aren't exempt from that at all.

But the question here has more to do with individuals who have faith in a "God", and whether that makes them more or less intelligent. People get worked up and talk past each other here, but both of you are right. Churches have, and have always had, bad motives to go with their good ones, and individuals with faith are just as likely to be bright as those who aren't.


Another sane and well reasoned post. I often wonder how you can only be 20 years of age. You must have done a lot of quiet observing and information sponging all your life.

Most intelligent people are introspective and doubt themselves while many fucktards are proudly over-confident. - a tip of the hat to Charles Bukowski
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:27:11 AM

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WellMadeMale wrote:


Another sane and well reasoned post. I often wonder how you can only be 20 years of age. You must have done a lot of quiet observing and information sponging all your life.


I have been lately anyway- but not very quietly. evil4
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:47:23 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,328
Location: California
MrNudiePants wrote:


That's not true. I'm not talking about pedophile priests, or condoms in Africa. I'm talking about people right here, in my neighborhood; people that I know personally. People that donate their time, their money, their goods, to help homeless and destitute people. Their religion definitely encourages them to do whatever they can to improve the world around them. Maybe that doesn't fit into your "All religions are evil" point of view, but it's a fact. They don't do it for the money; in fact they give away their own money and get nothing in return except for the feeling that comes from doing good. It doesn't earn them any power over anyone, either. It just feeds people that need to be fed.


Don't they do all that good will to get on their God's good graces though? So that when they get to the pearly white gates God will read his little list of good things you did and let you past his velvet ropes and let you into his club. And you can't just credit religion with people's desire to do good. I'm sure that every person that has given to charity isn't a religious person.



Dancing_Doll
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:08:03 AM

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A lot of "do-good" charity work is designed to recruit people into their church and their faith. It also helps when you target the vulnerable who are going through hard times, and use the guise of a helping hand as a way to gain access to preaching and indoctrination. People are desperate and at a difficult time in their lives, and are willing to do whatever it takes to get back on their feet. I just see it as manipulation. That's the grassroots level, but then you can look at all the "religious charities" like World Vision, and missionary work etc. and you can see that "charity" doesn't come without a price. It's not purely altruistic. Conversion is the motive.

MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:38:33 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:

Don't they do all that good will to get on their God's good graces though? So that when they get to the pearly white gates God will read his little list of good things you did and let you past his velvet ropes and let you into his club. And you can't just credit religion with people's desire to do good. I'm sure that every person that has given to charity isn't a religious person.


Not if they believe what's in the Bible. The Bible says, "Not through good works will you enter the gates." In other words, it doesn't matter what works of charity you do here on Earth, or how much money you tithe. Christian religious charities may be good recruiting tools, but mostly it just feels good to be able to help someone.

And you're right - I'm sure non-religious people do give to charity. But I was speaking strictly of charitable organizations founded, funded, and organized by religious groups. Groups like the Salvation Army, Alcoholics Anonymous, and the Anti-Defamation League.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:42:47 PM

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Location: United States
LadyX wrote:
In reference to this latest back-and-forth:

Shouldn't we separate personal faith from blind adherence to organized religion?

She is pointing out flaws- and there are plenty to go around- with organized religion. Over time, I don't think there's much question that they were power structures designed to keep their flock together and the money and labor streaming in. Power corrupts, and unlike taxes, churches aren't exempt from that at all.

But the question here has more to do with individuals who have faith in a "God", and whether that makes them more or less intelligent. People get worked up and talk past each other here, but both of you are right. Churches have, and have always had, bad motives to go with their good ones, and individuals with faith are just as likely to be bright as those who aren't.


Not for nothing, but She made a specific point that intelligent people don't ever follow orders blindly (as she assumes all religions require their adherents to do). I was just rebutting her. I wasn't trying to "talk past" her - I really do want her to accept the fact that yes, sometimes intelligent people DO follow orders without question, and so this point isn't really valid when it's applied to religion. I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent, I don't think there's any need for following orders blindly, and yet I still consider myself a spiritual man, who believes in Christianity. Where do I fall, in She's hierarchy of the world's population? (LOL)
Jillicious
Posted: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:31:37 PM

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Joined: 10/28/2009
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If this is true why isn't Utah the dumbest state in the United States? just asking.
perhaps this intelligence/religion question was originally posed to help the asker feel superior to a group of people they don't agree with.

Thousands of user submitted stories removed from the site. You are nothing without your users or their freely submitted stories.
She
Posted: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:10:26 AM

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Location: Europe
MrNudiePants wrote:
Not for nothing, but She made a specific point that intelligent people don't ever follow orders blindly (as she assumes all religions require their adherents to do). I was just rebutting her. I wasn't trying to "talk past" her - I really do want her to accept the fact that yes, sometimes intelligent people DO follow orders without question, and so this point isn't really valid when it's applied to religion. I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent, . I don't think there's any need for following orders blindly, and yet I still consider myself a spiritual man, who believes in Christianity. Where do I fall, in She's hierarchy of the world's population? (LOL)


The whole post about me?hello1 Now, with what did I deserve thet honour?! Since you did it I have the same right, no double rules, right?
If I do understand correctly, you are thread mediator? And you should know better no personal subjects at forum, but then again I never saw any of your thread mediator work nor did I ever read that you solved intense situation here at Think Tank and this your post makes the whole Lush team looks bad (I will brake it down for you so you will be able to see why) and in the future if you want to talk about me please use PM because I really do not care what you think of me and you know what if you want you know that you can send it to all your friends as well, you have that option (send it to all) you know that right? I really do not care.


MrNudiePants wrote:
Not for nothing, but She made a specific point that intelligent people don't ever follow orders blindly (as she assumes all religions require their adherents to do).

I will type it down again in my next post


MrNudiePants wrote:
I was just rebutting her.

You very respectful Thread Mediator, you ment rebutting her post, her opinion about subject... not rebbuting me personaly, right? hahah you are amusing MNP quite amusing

MrNudiePants wrote:
I really do want her to accept the fact that yes, sometimes intelligent people DO follow orders without question, and so this point isn't really valid when it's applied to religion

Why do you care what and how I think, I certanly do not care how you think and why nor do I want to change you nor do I care what is your opinion about me, all of that is quite irrelevant for Think Tank, dont you think?
And no, inteligent (I assume we all do talk about above average inteligence, because inteligence just is, you have under, average and above..genius) do not have sheep affect, they do question and make choices based on their thoughts about subject, they do not follow orders without questions, thoughts, choices...

MrNudiePants wrote:
I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent,


Now, now I am very glad that you consider yourself reasonably inteligent but dont you think that about IQ there is nothing that you or me should be considered about? OR do you think you great thread mediator you are above IQ tests who were made of tests and tests of most inteligent people on earth, yap that is how it goes, they are doing it not the USA not the laws not... but people with high IQ and I can easily be wrong but the higest IQ registered at this point is around 180.. just an info.. but hey, we, all of us 50.000 Lush members (Nicola, congratulation by the way) can come to you and you will tell us what you consider inteligent person is. Too funny man, that is definitely joke of the day! Thanks!!

MrNudiePants wrote:

Where do I fall, in She's hierarchy of the world's population? (LOL)

588-rolleyes








She
Posted: Friday, November 05, 2010 2:55:54 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 2,547
Location: Europe
MrNudiePants wrote:
She wrote:
Just to make it clear, I did not made a post about human and religion but about science and religion...


No, what you said was, "...religion does not encurage you to improve yourself or world, they just want you to follow their rules."


You should really start reading my posts men, maybe I made a HUGE mistake and instead of comma I used period infront of DOES, read it again maybe this time will make more sense to you.

She wrote:
What I am trying to say is that you/we cannot go around and say things like: 'I do believe/trust in science, I do believe in uncharted fields and in the same breath follow one of religions. Does not make sense because religion does not encurage you to improve yourself or world, they just want you to follow their rules.Inteligent people do not follow wihout question being asked, withouth doubts in pritty much everything. I am not saying that we are alone in the universe and that this is the only galaxy that exsists but to believe in god as it exists in religions, it is not sign of inteligence

better MNP?

You still didn't prove anything you just said that you disagree with me. Let me tell you short story, back in days when people still didn't know how to write and read, priests knew how and they didn't want to teach their goers. Why? Controle the masses, controle the world. The less we know, more power they have over us. Back in days and still today. But that is the whole new subject and has no room here at this thread.


MrNudiePants wrote:
That's not true. I'm not talking about pedophile priests, or condoms in Africa. I'm talking about people right here, in my neighborhood; people that I know personally. People that donate their time, their money, their goods, to help homeless and destitute people. Their religion definitely encourages them to do whatever they can to improve the world around them. Maybe that doesn't fit into your "All religions are evil" point of view, but it's a fact. They don't do it for the money; in fact they give away their own money and get nothing in return except for the feeling that comes from doing good. It doesn't earn them any power over anyone, either. It just feeds people that need to be fed.

I have said it the same thing, scroll up and read it. What you did is, you just refered it differently and say it how it suits you to defend church.

She wrote:
Many people were inteligent in the Third Reich? many people were greedy, greedy of power and money.


MrNudiePants wrote:
Is that your answer for everything? money, power, money, power...

oh darling where do you live? This is 21 century and every thing is about money and power and evrey thing was about money and power. History does exsits longer than Columbus and discovery of America and great immigrations from Europe there. History consists much more than 500 years of America. And it is, was and will be everything about money and power, in this case controle church goers and you will have their money and power over them. Easy as that.

MrNudiePants wrote:
Address the point I made. You said that intelligent people don't follow orders without questioning them, and I gave you proof that's not true. Like it or not. You made two points, and you're wrong about both of them. I'm sorry if that upsets you, but maybe you should change the way you think about things instead of getting angry and rude.


What kind of proof you gave me? dont be silly MNP. You mean when you compared your God with Hitler? oh wait, maybe this is the joke of the day!

Michelle:"Listen carefuly I shall say this only once!" (quote from hillarious British tv show 'Allo 'Allo, just an info..)

When Hitler came to power it was in early 30' last cenutry his country and pretty much the rest of the world were facing great hunger and crissis, after and before as well black tuseday in 1929 (that is in American time you should know this part of history) People in Germany were hungry, devastated and depressed, and then Adolf came, great speaker, high IQ, with a vision how he will change country and take it to next much better level and yes people did made a choice, to follow or to die hungry. They made a choice, they didn't follow some guy withy a big gray bear up on the clouds (God), they followed one of most disturbing people on earth, sadly but truth.


*If I was rude before it was not intentionaly, you are right I do get quite overemotional, upset, passionat, frusturated.. you named I have it..all negative emotions do colide in me when subject about religion, specialy catolic one, is on. About today's post I do not apologize, you were asking for them.







Guest
Posted: Friday, November 05, 2010 7:22:11 PM

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Posts: 674,122
Okay, hold up, the original question was "Are intelligent people less likely to believe in god?"

Answer: NO.

It's what you do with your intelligence that is the key. Granted, most "Christian" societies have negated science by exterminating it..Inca's, Aztec's, whatever was in the Pyramids. All these societies were exterminated and their knowledge along with it. Although, yes, the exterminators have come back and feed, clothed, and provided humane assistance to them. How sweet. Yeah, ummm, sorry about the whole eradication of a whole millennium of knowledge, science, and astronomy, but here...want a piece of bread? It's the body of christ ya' know?

Intelligence, along with the proliferation of yahweh, stifled most of the intelligence outside of religion. If it can't be understood or defined through god then it must go.

Einstein himself could not and would not conquer as to the absence of the creator. However, he was taught in a religious background both familial and scholarly fashion.



1curiouscat
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 1:48:15 PM

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DamonX wrote:
Are intelligent people less likely to believe in god?

stirthepot


Yes!

I belive that the more education you have the more you learn how to question paradigm. Therefore you are going to question the idea of god.

That was an interesting survey:

You answered 13 out of 15 questions correctly
for a score of 87%.



Overwhelming Reality

From Across the Room
Buz
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:30:25 PM

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I seriously doubt it has nothing to do with intelligence.

Guest
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:38:44 PM

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There are always things that science can't explain, no matter how intelligent you are.
I don't think intelligence is an issue with believing in God either.
DLizze
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:02:51 PM

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I think more intelligent people are more likely to question the existence of a Supreme Being. However, that says nothing about the liklihood of their conclusion, one way or the other. I do not have facts, but I suspect a preponderence of the world population is theistic. I am therefore led to suspect also, that there is probably not a causative link between intelligence and athiesm.

I would also respectfully suggest it takes just as much faith (albeit negative) to deny the existence of God as it does to affirm that existence, since neither conclusion can be scientifically proven.

"There's only three tempos: slow, medium and fast. When you get between in the cracks, ain't nuthin' happenin'." Ben Webster
latinfoxy
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 4:35:38 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:


icon_biggrin You're getting pretty good at this. This one really made me crack a smile.


Yes, I think Intelligent people are more likely to question the unbelievability of what some of the leading religions of the world preach. In my life It's pretty black and white, my uneducated side of the family is religious. The ones that have a college degree are not.



This is why generalizations are wrong, i have a college degree, a company of my own, im pretty damn smart AND i believe in god!!
JustJohn
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 6:33:05 PM

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I think that belief and intelligence are completely unrelated issues not everything in this world is easy there are always shades of grey and having faith in something other than yourself often helps people through.
charmbrights
Posted: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 3:15:19 AM

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Epicurus wrote,several centuries BC(E):-

If he is willing but cannot, he is not omnipotent.
If he can but is unwilling, he is malevolent.
If he can and is willing, whence comes evil?
If he cannot and is unwilling, why call him God?

News of ALL my novels (and where to get free copies) on charmbrights.webs.com/novels.htm.
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