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The Coming Middle-Class Anarchy Options · View
MrNudiePants
Posted: Sunday, October 10, 2010 7:43:58 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
Link to Story


Quote:
It was a months-long struggle—but finally, they were approved for HAMP: Their mortgage period was extended, and the interest rate was lowered. Even though their home was still underwater, and even though they still owed the same principal to their bank, Brian and Ilsa were very happy: Their mortgage payments had gone down by 40%. This was equivalent to about 15% of their retirement income. So of course they were happy.

However, three months later, out of the blue, they got a letter from their bank, Wells Fargo: It said that, after further review, Brian and Ilsa had in fact not qualified for HAMP. Therefore, their mortgage would go back to the old rate. Not only that, they now owed the difference for the three months when they had paid the lowered mortgage—and to add insult to injury, they were assessed a “penalty for non-payment”.




Quote:
They have essentially said, Fuckit.

They haven’t defaulted—not yet. They’re paying the lower mortgage rate. That they’re making payments is because of Brian: He is insisting that they pay something—Ilsa is of the opinion that they should forget about paying the mortgage at all.

“We follow the rules, and look where that’s gotten us?” she says, furious and depressed. “Nowhere. They run us around, like lab rats in a cage. This HAMP business was supposed to help us. I bet the bank went along with the program for three months, so that they could tell the government that they had complied—and when the government got off their backs, they turned around and raised the mortgage back up again!”



Quote:
Fuckit.

When the backbone of a country starts thinking that laws and rules are not worth following, it’s just a hop, skip and a jump to anarchy.

TV has given us the illusion that anarchy is people rioting in the streets, smashing car windows and looting every store in sight. But there’s also the polite, quiet, far deadlier anarchy of the core citizenry—the upright citizenry—throwing in the towel and deciding it’s just not worth it anymore.

If a big enough proportion of the populace—not even a majority, just a largish chunk—decides that it’s just not worth following the rules anymore, then that society’s days are numbered: Not even a police-state with an armed Marine at every corner with Shoot-to-Kill orders can stop such middle-class anarchy.

Brian and Ilsa are such anarchists—grey-haired, well-dressed, golf-loving, well-to-do, exceedingly polite anarchists: But anarchists nevertheless. They are not important, or powerful, or influential: They are average—that’s why they’re so deadly: Their numbers are millions. And they are slowly, painfully coming to the conclusion that it’s just not worth it anymore.

Once enough of these J. Crew Anarchists decide they no longer give a fuck, it’s over for America—because they are America.


This op-ed piece only mentions America, but our problems are the world's problems, and vice-versa. If Americans default on their mortgages en masse, then banks will go under. The government can't print money fast enough to cover our debt. If the government can't cover our debt, then we'll default on money owed to China, The European Union, India, etc. If our government defaults on money owed those countries, then their banks will start to fail. How long before barter regains it's place as a means of exchange? How long before governments themselves fail, juntas start occurring, and police states become the rule and not the exception?
tubby1961
Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 5:11:32 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/24/2010
Posts: 2,940
Location: Down Under, Australia
It has already started look at Greece and now Ireland. In some countries the far right are gaining in strength and even winning votes in elections. Makes me wonder what lies in wait in the future for us.


"Hey, don't knock masturbation! It's sex with someone I love." Woody Allen

"I am willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never wrong." Samuel Goldwyn
LadyX
Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 10:17:30 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
1

The brother of a guy I live with has a house in Lake Elsinore, CA- which is south of LA but inland from the coast. He bought it about 10 years ago, and now owes almost twice what it's worth. The bank he bought it through has been bought out a couple times, and based on being late on a payment, the interest level spiked, his wife lost her job, and so now his monthly payment is almost as high as his monthly income. He doesn't pay that mortgage anymore, and soon got a letter of foreclosure from the bank. His attorney told him to ask for the original lending documents, which they haven't been able to produce. Without those, they can't legally foreclose.

Even so- Riverside County has many deputies who are now refusing to execute forced evictions even though the county is supposed to legally do so. I guess they have a hard time seeing people just like them getting thrown out into the street- not for crime, but because they fail to sufficiently line a bank corporation's pockets per the fine print on their lending documents, whoever the hell's logo happens to be on the letterhead this week.

2

A friend of mine's mom lives in an apartment building in Berkeley, CA. She rents, of course, but a few months ago she found a notice on the door from a bank, saying that she was being evicted in a few days. Everyone in the building got one, and of course everyone flipped out. The landlord told them that he was fighting it, that the mortgage company was charging more interest than he'd signed on for anyway. He told them nobody could force them to move out, and that the Alameda County Sheriff's department was not executing orders to evict (which turned out to be true). The bank sent out another set of threatening notices , and a few people were scared into leaving, but most stayed, including the lady I know, who desperately wants to stay there for easy access to her job and to keep her son in the school he's in, which caters to his particular needs very well.

The landlord's in default, but says he's being strong-armed by a bank and says he's got a lawsuit pending since the government didn't respond to his complaints, and in the meantime everyone in the building is standing pat. Some say nobody's forcing them out- and from the sound of it, it really would be a dogfight to try to forcibly remove them.

***

Families get thrown out, and for what? So the bank can own another empty house, to go along with thousands of other houses that sit empty, while families that need a roof over their head either don't have one or don't have a good one. In places where there are massive job losses and insurmountable bills- who does it help for people to be forced out of shelter?

Why would you pay on a mortgage you can't possibly pay off? Especially if you have no place good to go, and you owe hundreds of thousands of dollars more than your house is worth.

For what- the honor of capitalism? To 'do your part' to uphold the system?

hahahaha- that's a funny concept. There's no honor involved in capitalism- it's every man and woman- and unfortunately, sometimes child- for himself. The banks take everything they possibly can, and there's proof around that they aren't doing all of it legally, either. There's tons of arbitrary rate-setting and plain old-fashioned bullying of the weak going on. "But, these are publicly traded corporations, surely everything's on the up and up, right?" Wrong. And the federal government is going to take care of them at every possible opportunity. The bailout fiasco and the lack of accountability even to this date should tell us all we need to know about this country and what it values. Not the people, that's for damn sure.

In the offices of wall street, literally there were people coming up with ways to shuffle paper based on nothing at all and have the millions of money lendees among us pay the tab for it. Then, of course, we foot the bill AGAIN in taxpayer money for bailouts. You can't get something for nothing, and I think they knew that, but they got richer in the process, while huge groups of people went from middle class to crippled with debt.*

So, why should we let ourselves be victims to all that's going on? Why should we pay good money on bad paper? Threats of damage to credit ratings mean very little to somebody who can't pay their bills in the first place. They've got a job that they are desperate to keep, many have kids to worry about, and bills that are drowning them, so you pay through the nose, assuming you can at all- why?

Because we're trained from grade 1- and we were- that there's something virtuous about American capitalism. We're taught it's the best system anywhere- but according to who, other than pointless flag-wavers and those who stand to gain major coin by having all the rest of us buy into that? Who is really living that American dream? I know they are out there, but from what I hear and what I read, they're fewer and fewer, and being drowned out by people who find themselves under the boot-heel of the financial system. Like Nudes mentions, the Government, the society, everything- they all depend on this system being propped up and fed into. The minute that a large group of people says "fuck this, I'm tired of making the 1% richer while I lose everything, including my dignity", and that number is growing, then a revolution is at hand.

Part of me really welcomes that, but like Tubby says, it can also give rise to some fairly ugly movements, too.

Bad economy? Blame the Mexicans! Tired of that whitebread America of "honor" being eroded (because some people won't shut up about it- the guy that gives me a ride to work listens to talk radio)? Blame the Muslims and the Gays!

So now you have thousands of stories just like the two I posted, and I wonder who among us doesn't know of a similar situation. Discontent is rising, and people like me have a hard time seeing things getting better on any front. Here in Dallas, everyone says we have it better than most everywhere else in the country, but the economy is getting worse here still. In another year, anyone who doesn't have a friend or relative who can't pay bills, probably will.


*unless you buy into the tea party line- which means you can blame the economic downturn on various shades of brown people buying houses they couldn't afford. Yep, it's the minorities fault, as usual. But it's not a racist movement, it's about "taking our country back"….right?
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 10:25:21 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
I have been assisting a good friend as she has attempted to jump the many hurdles which Bank of America has placed in front of her, behind her and all around her - as she has patiently been filling out and sending in the 'required documentation' in a timely manner, for HAMP. HomeAffordableMortgageProgram.

She has sent in four complete copies of everything they have ever requested, to two different call centers, one in Texas and one in Colorado.

At first she was connected with an overseas call center manned by people who could not speak English very well, as they requested various documents from her.

In short, she's been at this process since June 2009. Every 3 months (90 days) she is again asked to submit various obscure copies of documentation, tax receipts, handwritten hardship 'letters' pleading as to why she feels she qualifies.

It is a very demeaning process designed to crush the spirits out of those who are applying for HAMP. Administered and managed by an organization which received 45 billion dollars of TARP in October 2008 (they paid back all of that and 'only 1.5 billion' of interest) in December 2009.

How do we get such a sweet interest rate for ourselves? I loan you 45 dollars for 14 months and you pay me back, only $46.50.

Yet they turn around and strong-arm mortgage holders for 8% to 29% interest on their loans.

I have harbored many dark thoughts about BOA for the last year.

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
mercianknight
Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 11:21:53 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 2,027
Location: whispering conspiratorially in your ear, Bermuda
The middle classes of both the UK and the U.S., the driving forces of our consumerism economies, are definitely being squeezed from both ends. I can only assume the same is happening elsewhere in places like Japan, Germany, France et al.

At one end the Banks are NOT doing what the stimulus monies were intended for. Instead of managing their credit lines and keeping the economy ticking along they seem to have decided to find reasons NOT to lend to perfectly good customers and bump up their margins on their existing loan portfolios, thus draining liquidity. To add insult to injury, they also use all that cheap stimulus cash and low base rates to fund the crazy swings we're seeing on the stock markets again....it's like the Investment Banks have come back.

On the other side, the governments are turning on their own middle classes as a source of much needed tax revenues as though they are some perpetually growing money tree. Sure they can argue the government needs the income to combat the deficits and fund the welfare systems, but I just cannot understand why they think the middle classes can carry any more of the burden. Some governments just haven't realised that it's time to stop spending and start balancing their budgets.

If the middle classes are effectively 'extinguished', taxed and squeezed out of existence, then the chaos to which Nudie aludes is just around the corner as society is returned to a pre-industrialised hierarchy of wealthy elite (nobilty) and working class poor (serfs). As far as the US is concerned, I subscribe to the extreme theory of secession as the individual federal states will turn on each other even as the sovereign states of Europe return to their beligerent ways of yore.

Depressed yet? You should be.

"Whoa, lady, I only speak two languages, English and bad English." - Korben Dallas, from The Fifth Element

"If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must man be of learning from experience?" - George Bernard Shaw
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 2:51:13 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
I have seen this creeping into the American society since the 1980s (that I can remember) as I was in my twenties then and becoming aware of the world around me.

I experienced it in the form of employment, after rising through the wage tree for all of the 1990's. Looking around the nation, I first noticed the furniture manufacturing plants in the Carolina's begin to lay off their people and move their operations overseas. Cheaper labor, higher profits, nevermind the people who lost jobs (many of them particularly skilled jobs). Generations of experience simply pushed aside (you are no longer needed).

I sat back and watched NAFTA roll into America, I saw President Clinton pick up the ball from the former President Bush on this issue and run with it. I saw how the North American Free Trade Agreements continued to gut the American workforce, as thousands of jobs in all sectors of manufacturing simply picked up stakes and moved out of this country to avoid the 'higher' costs of labor and corporate taxes. We were told that this was wonderful for shareowners in these corporations, nevermind about those people whose income/wages for 2080 hours a year, placed them in the lower to upper middle class of this country.

It was a bonanza for 'the investors'.

Who are these investors? Some of them were us, back when we had decent paying jobs and a little money left over after mortgage and auto payments, to actually 'save' and invest into something. Wall Street opened its arms and welcomed us to purchase their products and 'services'. Make money doing nothing, let US manage your portfolio for you, (we'll only take a small portion of the churn for ourselves).

We have allowed our basic infrastructure to decay since the 1960's. And I'm not talking about just our highways or roads. Our water delivery and sewage disposal/recycling has been long ignored. We haven't kept pace with our bridges in this country, they are decaying. Our electrical power grid is a shambles. What does this have to do with the middle class?

The former middle class of this country built those things for us. They were nicely paid to do so. When you're making 75,000 a year you can purchase new stoves, washing machines, cars, houses, food, and other services (which mean jobs for other people who also get paid to live and thrive).

Move all the good jobs out of this country and you will see what we are experiencing now. That giant sucking sound which has been rushing through our country with increasing fluidity since the early 1990's.

I experienced a major telecommunications company laying off 30,000 people who were all making 35 to 150k a year. Then reporting those 'savings' towards their bottom line, playing with numbers through phony accounting to show major quarterly profits for THEIR SHAREHOLDERS and executives.

That was just one large nationwide firm. The same thing has occurred all over this country at hundreds of Fortune 1000 sized companies.

What have our political 'leaders' attempted to do, to staunch this?

Not one fucking thing. They are too busying enjoying the perks and bribes of lobbying firms who are pushing them to ignore the issues, or write laws to enable this to occur faster.

Welcome to Corporate America.

Fck you Middle Class; they couldn't kill all the unions so they took a different tack.

Home buyers? We'll steal your investments and those properties you do not own yet. The largest swindle of the US Treasury occurred right in front of our eyes in August/Sept/October 2008. And we all just watched it happen.

And we're told - "Move along folks, nothing to see here, it will all be just fine, let us make the decisions, that's what you voted US (Dems and Reps) into office to do!"

We're being fucking fleeced, folks. By both sides of the political aisle. They have the excellent insurance and benefits, most of them are millionaires when they 'win' their overly expensive elections.

We have made it so expensive to run for office, that a middle class person cannot afford to run for statewide or national office.

We're being led - by millionaires who see us as nothing more than worker bees to step on and use up.

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
Guest
Posted: Monday, October 11, 2010 3:48:22 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 779,317
And the answer is what Jeff? How do you propose we get out of this mess?
WellMadeMale
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 11:49:06 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
chefkathleen wrote:
And the answer is what Jeff? How do you propose we get out of this mess?


There are many solutions, Chef. A single quick fix does not exist.

Recognizing how we got to where we are is crucial, however. And it is not about just assigning blame or pointing fingers.
Some democrats and some republicans have had good ideas and 'fixes' have been implemented in the past, only to be
undone by future congresses and presidential administrations.

Not all of 'them' are assholes, but the vast majority are.

Here's an interesting graphic.

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:06:03 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 779,317
Quote:

Recognizing how we got to where we are is crucial, however. And it is not about just assigning blame or pointing fingers.
Some democrats and some republicans have had good ideas and 'fixes' have been implemented in the past, only to be
undone by future congresses and presidential administrations.


And so it will continue to be as long as they are changed with each voting session and administration change in the country. Yet still there needs to be some solid answers put forth that people can hear. What are your answers to the problems and how do you propose we begin?
mercianknight
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:11:47 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 2,027
Location: whispering conspiratorially in your ear, Bermuda
WMM is correct in his assertions - about the challenges on how to fix it and about the political landscape.

Chef, however, poses a quite legitimate question that, if I may be so bold, I would also like to proffer an answer.

The single biggest obstacle to recovery for the US seems to be the Federal Reserve. Unlike other economies who each have their own centralised Bank, often enshrined in regulatory legislation, the US has created a catch-22 scenario where the monetary system is actually controlled by the people who frigged it up in the first place. The Federal Reserve, created by Banks to regulate Banks, create, or in this case destroy, liquidity in an economy. The Fed, have only ever acted in the interests of their main members, willing at times to let regional Banks be put to the sword in an effort to preserve their own shareholders value.

Some good things have come out of the Fed, however, this time is different because they lost one of their own (Lehman Bros) and that scared the sweet bejeezus out of them. Now it's all about them, and preserving their little empires. The amazing thing is that the US Govt has not realised it yet and keeps letting those scumbags mess with the economy.

The answer? Circumvent the Fed and create, by amendment to the Constitution (I know), a genuine central regulatory Bank that will do as the European central Banks are trying to do. "It's the economy stupid." It's not perfect, and I'm certainly not holding the Europeans up as some shining example, but, comparing the two? I got more faith in Europe digging themselves out right now than the US (despite Greece & Eire).

Anyway, that's one facet. There are others, but that would be my first step.

"Whoa, lady, I only speak two languages, English and bad English." - Korben Dallas, from The Fifth Element

"If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must man be of learning from experience?" - George Bernard Shaw
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:11:02 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 779,317
Good point. And a good idea. Anyone else have any solutions they'd like to toss in the ring?
WellMadeMale
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:18:46 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
You nailed that one out of the ballpark, Merc.

That is the single biggest problem facing man today.

The US Federal Reserve. They control everything. Everything.

When they squeeze, we all hurt.

When they give, they are selective as to who gets what and we all still, hurt.

Fuck a bunch of fiat banking.

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:20:53 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
chefkathleen wrote:
Quote:

Recognizing how we got to where we are is crucial, however. And it is not about just assigning blame or pointing fingers.
Some democrats and some republicans have had good ideas and 'fixes' have been implemented in the past, only to be
undone by future congresses and presidential administrations.


And so it will continue to be as long as they are changed with each voting session and administration change in the country. Yet still there needs to be some solid answers put forth that people can hear. What are your answers to the problems and how do you propose we begin?


My own personal past is too checkered for me to run for office. Besides, I'm not a millionaire (irregardless of what I told you in March, LadyX).

The attack dogs would rip me up in about 52 seconds if not sooner. Any credibility I might appear to have, would be shredded.

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:27:59 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
WellMadeMale wrote:
Besides, I'm not a millionaire (irregardless of what I told you in March, LadyX).


Ya, the picture of you in a Dodge Stratus kind of gave that away. Good try, though. evil4
WellMadeMale
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:45:46 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
LadyX wrote:
WellMadeMale wrote:
Besides, I'm not a millionaire (irregardless of what I told you in March, LadyX).


Ya, the picture of you in a Dodge Stratus kind of gave that away. Good try, though. evil4


That's my Thursday morning car, babe. evil4

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
myself
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:55:06 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/17/2010
Posts: 966
Location: .showyourdick.org/
Bank of America offered us the 'Making Homes Affordable Program' also. It was a nightmare. We submitted copies and copies of personal information and then did it again month after month while paying a reduced house pymt for months only to be then told that we were in default for the missed balances of each of the reduced payments they asked us to pay. Our home was set for repossession and auction. My Love sold a treasured possession and saved our home. We are lucky.

It seems the question is- what do we do about the hard times? They really are getting bad for many of us.

In my family we have decided if worse comes to worse, we will come together and help support each other. What I mean by this is, we have four daughters, and thirteen grandchildren and while 1/2 of them are barley making it financially, they are still making it but, the others will have to come and share our large home and pool their resources until times are not so tough. Of course my Love and I are already talking about giving them the house and living at one of the local camp sites lol, (just joking, maybe). What else is there to do.

-the money is not going to come back anytime soon dontknow






Torture the data long enough and they will confess to anything.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:46:28 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
2nd year in a row - Record bonus payout on Wall Street. And this, after the American Treasury bailed the fuckers out, just 2 years ago.

Any questions as to 'who' is the highest priority for our elected officials? Too big to fail vs too many to give a shit about.

Pay on Wall Street is on pace to
break a record high for a second
consecutive year, according to a
study conducted by The Wall Street Journal.


144 billion bux to the chosen few. How the fuck, is this even approaching fair?

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 5:18:05 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
Revolution.

This won't be fixed- at least not with the system we have in place. No 'ideas' will trump the determination of those in power to keep their power and preserve it moving forward. I wish this weren't true, but there's zero evidence otherwise that I've seen. There were a lot of people who really believed that Obama coming into power would start to change some of these things- and without reading much myself, I guess I was hoping along with them- but its clear that this is not the case. The machine continues, regardless of who is in charge. He or she will change nothing that really matters, while pretending to try and heal 15 wounds at once. Some probably still drink the kool-aid, but as things get worse and worse, fewer and fewer will. When they see that there's no reason to play along anymore, to pretend that the system works for them, they'll check out and seek new leaders.

Like Mercianknight mentions, I think the Revolution won't be a big group of people busting down the doors at the Capitol and taking over. I think it will be states, or maybe even smaller areas, giving the US Government the middle finger and creating smaller governments among their own people. I think the teabaggers are the start of this- they're the first large group of people to get angry about the same issues since the economy crashed, even if they're basically just disgruntled Republicans at this point. Give them a while- when things don't improve with the economy, they'll get angrier. The racist undertone will become more open out of frustration for their decline in prosperity. Minorities will start to resent the white upper class even more than they do now. Places like Arizona will have nothing in common with places like New York, so why would they want the same government? National security and patriotism will probably mean a lot less to people when their government and currency is failing, so they'll put their faith in somebody or some group who appears to really have their best interests at heart, who represent them and their concerns.

Sounds all doom and gloom, but I really think that a flat refusal of the US would be far better than letting this system get propped up much longer- funneling all the wealth to a privileged few, all while distracting and manipulating the masses with various fears and entertainment. The sideshow.

We could have new beginnings out of the wreckage of a fucked-up nation whose powerful don't share the same vision that the rest of us do.

Of course, like Nudes mentions, if something like this happens, that means other shake-ups are probably happening around the world. I'm sure it won't be all good effects if the country broke apart; I'm sure it would cause all kinds of chaos, but if I remember my lessons right, that was the case when this country had its first revolution, too.

Bunny12
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 6:20:25 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 1,027
Location: My own little world, United States
I've always thought when we (the USA) go down we're taking the rest of the world with us and it's looking more likely all the time. That's where socialism will get you! And yes all the politicians are to blame I don't care what party you belong to or what administration you are involved with.

Bunny12


Bunny Rabbits cute and fuzzy they want to love you but they have razor sharp teeth - don't piss them off!
MrNudiePants
Posted: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 7:16:04 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:
Like Mercianknight mentions, I think the Revolution won't be a big group of people busting down the doors at the Capitol and taking over. I think it will be states, or maybe even smaller areas, giving the US Government the middle finger and creating smaller governments among their own people. I think the teabaggers are the start of this- they're the first large group of people to get angry about the same issues since the economy crashed, even if they're basically just disgruntled Republicans at this point. Give them a while- when things don't improve with the economy, they'll get angrier. The racist undertone willhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_(novel) become more open out of frustration for their decline in prosperity. Minorities will start to resent the white upper class even more than they do now. Places like Arizona will have nothing in common with places like New York, so why would they want the same government? National security and patriotism will probably mean a lot less to people when their government and currency is failing, so they'll put their faith in somebody or some group who appears to really have their best interests at heart, who represent them and their concerns.


You should read this book. Friday

Written by Robert Heinlein, it tells the story of one possible future of the Earth. Just as you have, he predicted nearly thirty years ago that the large countries would break up into smaller republics, complete with border guards and immigration quotas. The heroine of the story is a young lady nearly as lovely as you are, and probably every bit as capable. In that particular future, multi-national corporations have so much power that their Boards of Directors are de-facto governments unto themselves. They form their own armies (which we see happening today), they fight proxy battles on real battlefields... It's a must-read if you want a dire look into one possible future (that seems more and more likely to come true every day).
WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:54:22 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
I have a feeling that this movie will make me ill to watch it.



Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 10:36:16 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
Robo Signers?

In an effort to rush through thousands of home foreclosures since 2007,
financial institutions and their mortgage servicing departments hired
hair stylists, Walmart floor workers and people who had worked on
assembly lines and installed them in "foreclosure expert" jobs with
no formal training, a Florida lawyer says.

In depositions released Tuesday, many of those workers testified
that they barely knew what a mortgage was. Some couldn't define
the word "affidavit." Others didn't know what a complaint was, or
even what was meant by personal property. Most troubling, several said
they knew they were lying when they signed the foreclosure affidavits
and that they agreed with the defense lawyers' accusations about document fraud.


"The mortgage servicers hired people who would never question authority,"
said Peter Ticktin, a Deerfield Beach, Fla., lawyer who is defending 3,000 homeowners in foreclosure cases.


Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:01:55 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
WellMadeMale wrote:
I have a feeling that this movie will make me ill to watch it.



This stuff makes me wish for a revolution now. Not tomorrow, not after breakfast. Now.

These arrogant, greedy motherfuckers need killing. Or at least robbery and torture.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:35:07 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
Remember, this movie (below) is brought to you by someone who is hurting America.
(according to something I read on this board last month)
. He's worse, than the fuckers who are
ripping us off to the tune of billion$, stealing our homes and property, and sending our friends off to wars.



Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
mercianknight
Posted: Thursday, October 14, 2010 6:30:04 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 2,027
Location: whispering conspiratorially in your ear, Bermuda
Will watching "Inside Job" (and I will watch it) make me feel any better about what was done and how they got away with it? Probably not. Will it make me enlist in LadyX's army? Already have!!!!
cussing

"Whoa, lady, I only speak two languages, English and bad English." - Korben Dallas, from The Fifth Element

"If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must man be of learning from experience?" - George Bernard Shaw
MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, October 14, 2010 6:58:13 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
Banks are breaking into people's homes to change the locks... but the homes haven't been foreclosed on yet.


Quote:
Chetry: That's the unbelievable part. How long you were living in this house and the fact that you were not in foreclosure. Here's what JP Morgan Chase says, they say properties in delinquent payments they can regularly visit to inspect them. And if the property's found to be open, they can work to secure it even if it's not in foreclosure. What do you think of that?

Weidner: I want to take exception to that. That's the big problem happening across this country. These banks are running wild. It's the wild west out there. Here's a house that's perfectly secured, her locks are secure, she's got an alarm system on it and power in. And the banks across the country are using that excuse as a justification for violating fundamental rights. It's got to stop. America's got to wake up and say we're not going to take this anymore.


And the people the banks are sending are outright thieves.


Quote:
CHARLOTTE COUNTY - Two Canadian tourists returning to their rental home from a day at the beach found evidence burglars had struck -- or so it seemed.

Their laptop computer and MP3 player were missing, as were six bottles of wine. A half-empty beer opened by the intruders was still cold and sitting on the kitchen counter.

But why, then, had the locks on the front door been changed?

It turns out that a Sarasota company working for a lender trying to retake the property through foreclosure sent two men to the Punta Gorda home to break in and change the locks, even though the home was obviously occupied.

It is illegal for any bank representative to enter a property if they have not yet retaken it at a foreclosure sale, especially if there is any sign the home is occupied, foreclosure experts say.

The process of banks hiring people to break into homes, even when occupied, is just the latest oddity of the messy foreclosure crisis in Florida.

Some property owners are reporting the break-ins to law enforcement as burglaries. Yet investigators consider the disputes a civil matter because the contractors do not display criminal intent.

That essentially leaves the property owners without recourse.
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, October 14, 2010 7:06:22 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart
Moderator

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
O Beautiful, for greedy banks,
For shysters on wall street,
For bought and paid for lawmakers
Who make those thefts complete.

America, America,
Lets act like all is well
While companies and government
Turn "freedom" into hell.


WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, October 14, 2010 11:45:00 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
All you thirty somethings and younger, take a gander at this state of the union address.

This President was the last one to lay down some hard cold truth on the world.
He was land-slided out of his incumbency, by The Great Communicator. People
did not like his message and they loved the koolaid the other guy sold them.




Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:23:04 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 779,317
Evidently no one listened to him. Everything he said would/could happen, did.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:26:22 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
Yet Jimmy Carter is often denigrated as the most ineffective and the worst US President, ever.
Go figure. Look at the act he had to follow.

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
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