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Whacky Evolution theory vs whacky Creationist theory vs whacky 3rd theory Options · View
WellMadeMale
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 12:42:36 PM

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All of these theories are just that.

Theories.
And by strict definition...they are also, (inaudible gasp) Conspiracy Theories

If you doubt the Evolution argument as being full of unexplainable holes -
as it has been taught to humanity since Darwin penned the possibilities and
that theory emerged and then began to be taught in classrooms all over the world.

Give this video (all eight segments) a look. Heh, it doesn't promote the Creationist conspiracy theory either).




It is merely a differentiating point of view.
One which hundreds of thousands of intelligent and articulate people embrace.

One which you may never have been exposed to, or even bothered to think about and research yourself - yet.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2010 9:38:31 PM

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Lloyd Pye: He has a BS in Psychology AND a college football scholarship? Yes, this is the man we should be looking to to solve the answers of the origins of human life. Looks like another american novelist steps up to the plate to discredit Darwin and actual scientific progress with his less than impressive collection of powerpoint slides. This series has actually been quite entertaining on some level, and you're right... it's technically a "theory", but I would seriously question the person that puts any legitimate faith into this. I didn't see any credible evidence being used to explain this theory. I did see quite a lot of reliance on village fables, story-telling, and comparing pictures (ie. this foot is bigger than that foot). Speaking of... he also asks us to accept, as fact, that Bigfoot and Yeti and (my personal favourite) the abominable snowman exist and live everywhere (except Nevada) and are actually Hominids. My favourite quote was: "As they live in the forest, they do a split-shift with the bears. The bears work the day shift, and they (the Bigfoot) work the nightshift. It's how it works". What??

I'll admit I only watched the first four parts, but I definitely need to smoke up before watching the rest of it. I am excited to get to the part where he presents irrefutable evidence that there was alien and human interbreeding that occurred during the Cro-Magnon period. It makes for a great piece of fiction or a Hollywood blockbuster movie, but the idea that this is given a place beside evolution as a legitimate theory is some scary stuff.

More to the point of this thread... theories exist, but some are credible, and some are not. This is an awesome example of the latter.

Magical_felix
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 5:38:01 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
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Quote:
It makes for a great piece of fiction or a Hollywood blockbuster movie


I don't know about it being a great piece of Hollywood fiction but they did make at least one movie using this theory.

Mission to Mars staring Jerry o'connel and Gary senise! In it they go to mars, find a secret room under a mountain and unlock it using music. They go inside and talk to an Alien that explains life on earth was created when one of their life boat spaceships crash landed on earth millions of years ago making us all half Martian! Doesn't sound any whackier than creationism but maybe just a little wackier than evolution...



mercianknight
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 7:53:58 AM

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Location: whispering conspiratorially in your ear, Bermuda
All sci-fi nuts learn to keep an open mind. Physiological Evolution aside, you have to wonder at some of the phenomenal leaps in technology we, as a race have lorded over. Felix prompted me to remind all about the critically acclaimed 'BattleStar Galactica' TV series which asks a similar question - tongue in cheek.

Human refugees settling on earth? Is it so far fetched?

Regardless of your opinions, it makes for great TV. "What has happened before, will happen again", as Man looks to the stars for our future survival.



"Whoa, lady, I only speak two languages, English and bad English." - Korben Dallas, from The Fifth Element

"If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must man be of learning from experience?" - George Bernard Shaw
Guest
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 10:51:53 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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I like reading all of the different stories about the beginning of man, but I was taught growing up that it really doesn't matter at all how we began, what matters is what we do with life once we are in charge of it. I still agree with that too. What difference does it make where we came from? It doesn't change the here and now one bit. If I had to guess I would say that bodies evolve just the same way that spirits do, so that would be evolution. But I really don't care.

The story I was taught in my family was that wondering where we came from all the time was like going to a doctor with a wound, and instead of patching you up and healing you, the doctor just keeps asking where you got hurt, what kind of weapon it was, why they would do such a thing, whether you fought back, over and over until finally you just die because the doctor was so pre occupied with the past. Same with going on and on about our beginnings in my opinion.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 11:21:42 AM

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Dancing_Doll wrote:
Lloyd Pye: He has a BS in Psychology AND a college football scholarship? Yes, this is the man we should be looking to to solve the answers of the origins of human life.

More to the point of this thread... theories exist, but some are credible, and some are not. This is an awesome example of the latter.


a) Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt


b) How can you bother to knock something when you haven't even bothered to check it out? Wouldn't that be the epitome of closed-mindedness? geek

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 11:30:24 AM

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Magical_felix wrote:
Quote:
It makes for a great piece of fiction or a Hollywood blockbuster movie


I don't know about it being a great piece of Hollywood fiction but they did make at least one movie using this theory.


What Pye is discussing is just one small part of the overall theory. Besides, who says there is only enough air in the room for two theories? drunken

You think these Hollywood movies are just created by over imaginative screen writers? Almost all of them obtain their core concept(s) from something which has occurred or been documented as possibly occurring in mankind's recorded past history.

Pye is merely one of hundreds of people (scientists) who do not think that actual fossils of the proverbial Missing Link will ever be found. Not because predation or natural weather scattered the carcasses. But because those crucial 4 to 7 million years of primate/human evolution were accelerated.

It's just another theory, but one which the Darwin camp will scoff at immediately without even so much as peering into, once they realize that it differs in many ways from their core beliefs.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Magical_felix
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 11:38:21 AM

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Joined: 4/3/2010
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Location: California
shi_squared wrote:
I like reading all of the different stories about the beginning of man, but I was taught growing up that it really doesn't matter at all how we began, what matters is what we do with life once we are in charge of it. I still agree with that too. What difference does it make where we came from? It doesn't change the here and now one bit. If I had to guess I would say that bodies evolve just the same way that spirits do, so that would be evolution. But I really don't care.

The story I was taught in my family was that wondering where we came from all the time was like going to a doctor with a wound, and instead of patching you up and healing you, the doctor just keeps asking where you got hurt, what kind of weapon it was, why they would do such a thing, whether you fought back, over and over until finally you just die because the doctor was so pre occupied with the past. Same with going on and on about our beginnings in my opinion.


I pretty much agree with everything you're saying here shishi but I can see the religious folk bringing up the point that it does change the here and now because if they lead good wholesome lives they will go to heaven. Part of their belief is that god created the earth and put us here. So if they believe god is powerful enough to create life on earth than he is worthy of being worshipped and feared.

If I knew for a fact I was half martian I would probably not have any lingering questions in my mind about god, religion and science.



Dancing_Doll
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 12:13:54 PM

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WellMadeMale wrote:
Dancing_Doll wrote:
Lloyd Pye: He has a BS in Psychology AND a college football scholarship? Yes, this is the man we should be looking to to solve the answers of the origins of human life.

More to the point of this thread... theories exist, but some are credible, and some are not. This is an awesome example of the latter.


a) Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt


b) How can you bother to knock something when you haven't even bothered to check it out? Wouldn't that be the epitome of closed-mindedness? geek


I did check it out... I watched 4 out of 8 youtube videos and did some online reading. geek

Actually, I'll watch the rest tonight. But, once again, we have the concept of "closed-mindedness" being used to threaten logic and common sense. Every religious cult has started out with this whole presupposed notion that "anything is possible", and all theories are valid. Every follower can be applauded for having an "open mind", can't they? Even Charles Manson's followers had open minds about his theories. What they didn't have is critical thinking skills.

The crux of this issue is that one should always have an open mind. Agreed. And science does. It also requires levels of proof to support a theory. This "theory" does none of that. It is also one put forth by a guy who has published two fictional novels, and has a BS in Psychology. The powerpoint slides he used are straight from highschool textbooks and Ripley's Believe it or Not (the sasquatch pics). So do I keep an open mind and consider that this random dude with no scientific credentials whatsoever can put forth a credible theory on the origins of man? No.

Sorry if you think that makes me closed-minded. It's hard for me to read heavily into anything without checking the source first. So far, if these powerpoint slides are an indication of his research and evidence on this "theory", then I see it as nothing more than entertainment.

Once again, we have the desire to want to believe in something fantastical. For those that don't want to buy into creationism, and for those that believe that evolution is a bullshit conspiracy because we don't have a missing link, and therefore it makes the rest of the theory irrelevant, then there always something like this. Alien/Human hybrids created when alien genes "miraculously" spliced into our DNA allowing for interspecies breeding. Where is the evidence for this? Or any of his theory? The "Starchild" skull that was found that is his big showpiece for evidence amounts to a human being likely suffering from hydrocephalus causing malformation of the skull. There are many human ailments (such as the disease Progeria) that can cause significant alterations in the human body. This does not mean that they are a result of alien interbreeding.

Anyone can create a theory about the origin of man, even fiction writers like Pye and Hubbard. It is correct to say that they are all technically 'theories'. But by that standard, movie producers in Hollywood have also put forth some interesting "theories" on the origins of man as well.




WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 12:26:29 PM

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Joined: 9/30/2009
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Dancing_Doll wrote:
Once again, we have the desire to want to believe in something fantastical. For those that don't want to buy into creationism, and for those that believe that evolution is a bullshit conspiracy because we don't have a missing link, and therefore it makes the rest of the theory irrelevant, then there always something like this. Alien/Human hybrids created when alien genes "miraculously" spliced into our DNA allowing for interspecies breeding. Where is the evidence for this? Or any of his theory? The "Starchild" skull that was found that is his big showpiece for evidence amounts to a human being likely suffering from hydrocephalus causing malformation of the skull. There are many human ailments (such as the disease Progeria) that can cause significant alterations in the human body. This does not mean that they are a result of alien interbreeding.

Anyone can create a theory about the origin of man, even fiction writers like Pye and Hubbard. It is correct to say that they are all technically 'theories'. But by that standard, movie producers in Hollywood have also put forth some interesting "theories" on the origins of man as well.


Heheh...I have only posted a clue, Doll. That video is two years old at least and I think actually 3 years old. Much has occurred over the last 24 months with regard to his Starchild skull.

Because he does not own 12 credentialed degrees (in the assumed appropriate fields) hanging on his wall or following his name, he is often disregarded callously as we've just witnessed you doing.

And a few hours of watching his 8 part video and reading up on 'him' is not really enough to form a fully logical point of view of what he has been saying and writing about for the last almost two decades.

He does not disagree with the theory of evolution (totally). Nor do I. But he does propose that human evolution was accelerated greatly. I just posted one clue to introduce anyone who might come across this thread with another view point, without tearing the guy to shreds.

Initially, I checked him out (his personal finances are a fucking shambles and his career has taken a nosedive to the bottom of the daily-working world), but that doesn't make him crack pot (in my eyes).

What he does say about 'modern anthropology' is pretty well substantiated. 'They' get all of the grants and donations to continue their work. THEY scoff at alternate theories, because to agree with them, would cut them off of their monies and livelihood. THEY will keep searching for the missing links because it guarantees them a life/living. lol

We see similar analogies in other fields of scientific exploration and discovery. You think Darwin had it easy introducing his basic concepts? lol, he went through the same shit that Pye and others like Pye have been going through the last 30 years.

Except, back in Darwin's time...it was not that far removed from tossing the bearded one on a fire pit or lynching him up in public.

Today we are more civilized. We just assassinate with words and verbal derision. geek



If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 12:50:22 PM

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Dancing_Doll wrote:
Alien/Human hybrids created when alien genes "miraculously" spliced into our DNA allowing for interspecies breeding. Where is the evidence for this? Or any of his theory? The "Starchild" skull that was found that is his big showpiece for evidence amounts to a human being likely suffering from hydrocephalus causing malformation of the skull.


The theory of Panspermia - touted by obvious crackpots like: This credentialed fellow states that the basic building blocks of 'life' for carbon based forms of it...are scattered all throughout the universe. Different forms of that basic life take different shapes depending on the environments those molecules and atoms congregate in.

Think bigger than 'just what happened' on this planet, Doll. geek

If the basic building blocks are all over the universe (or the galaxy)...then life, as we know it...in a myriad of forms has evolved (yes...evolved) into a menagerie of almost impossible-to-imagine genera.

And certainly...Mankind has been experimenting (that we know of) with genetic splicing and creating new remedies and even new life forms (since at least 1977 ... Louise Brown). Look at all the genetic splicing around us today in agriculture, medicine, bacteria which transform raw material into fuel, bacteria which eat up spilled oil...it is literally occurring all around us - created by human kind. 'to those life-forms, humans are The Gods'.

It is not that much of a stretch to imagine other humanoid-like life forms in other regions of the galaxy or the universe (a very big and ancient piece of real estate) having existed for millions if not billions of years before Australopithecines lost their prominent eyebrows and jay Leno-like jawlines.

I have several tin foil caps, perhaps even one in your size which would match a set of heels you favor.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 1:46:36 PM

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The following is a direct quote from Lloyd Pye:

"To the best of my knowledge, the top lab in the world for what we need done is the Kureha Special Laboratory in Iwaki, Fukushima Prefecture. That's about 200 kilometers northeast of Tokyo. What I need to determine is whether or not we can trust the results of any analysis we get from them. This was no different during the long struggle to find the proper DNA lab. Just because a lab exists, that doesn't mean we can trust any result they give us. If one person working on the analysis has a private agenda that is strongly antithetical to what we're trying to accomplish, we're toast. Such tests are too easy to sabotage. We might as well not even try it."
-Lloyd Pye

In other words, they will only believe the results if it agrees with their pre-determined conclusion.

My question is... if this holds credibility within the scientific community, then why aren't archeologists and academics trying to get a hold of this skull for testing. To my understanding, this skull was found in Mexico by a couple in the 1930's and they "gave it" to Lloyd Pye to do research. The reason for this is uncertain, given that Lloyd Pye is not a scientist or an academic, but rather an American novelist. All of the research being done in these labs is funded by Lloyd Pye's organization that (wait for it!) are accepting donations from the public for "testing and research". But only if the testing and research is being done by his own pre-arranged labs.

If this is of such monumental importance, why does this random guy have it in his possession and why is he in charge of the "research" on it.

Easy. Because he can make millions by doctoring lab results, and writing books and polluting the minds of the general public who buy into the concept of it. If this man has in his possession, a genuine artifact of a hybrid alien/human skull... then why isn't modern academia wanting in on the research?

And even IF this skull was determined to be a crossbreed of intergalactic origins, how does that make his theory on the origins of life accurate? How does it also make the legend of Bigfoot fact as well? He can take apart evolution and claim there are gaps in the fossil record, therefore the theory is wrong... but he expects people to take a rather monumental leap of faith based on the evidence of this one skull that he refuses to part with for unbiased scientific testing.



Guest
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 2:25:47 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
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It is funny to disregard this guy, yet for the past almost 2 thousand years we are still killing ourselves over what a bunch of guys in sandals did while following the son of a carpenter. I also looked up one of those creationist cats whose father was a civil engineer and he himself is a.....yup, psychology grad. I found the guys resume online, can't remember his name right now, I will have it tomorrow, the resume is in my desk at work. I am not close minded, but very wary of those whose theories usually coincide with a bottom line.

However, following Pye's argument, I question the fact that an advanced race would go through so much in order to harvest gold, or do menial tasks that were a burden. The one item that he did fib on was that Khwit was in fact Neanderthal. DNA studies showed that he was not. I am not above thinking about the homonid/human splice, it is at least more thought provoking than a burning bush or that Dino once walked side-by-side with Homo Erectus.

So, in this theory, was the human sex drive/propagation of the species a way of having an abundant source of workers in order to do further testing at a later point or simply to do the menial labor as was the initial intent?

And, does this theory have a call to arms so that we do not become food for fodder? If a block to the rest of our mental capacities was intentional would there not be a call to others to beware of "end times" once Nibiru comes around again?

As for Hollywood, oh how do I love thee, let me count the ways:

Contact, Mission to Mars, 2001: Space Odyssey, Battlefield Earth, Stargate, Fifth Element...and so many more that aren't coming to mind right now. Funny how all this is science fiction, but religion has the sacred realm of faith. Oh no you didn't....yup I did.

WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 2:33:50 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
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Dancing_Doll wrote:
The following is a direct quote from Lloyd Pye:

"To the best of my knowledge, the top lab in the world for what we need done is the Kureha Special Laboratory in Iwaki, Fukushima Prefecture. That's about 200 kilometers northeast of Tokyo. What I need to determine is whether or not we can trust the results of any analysis we get from them. This was no different during the long struggle to find the proper DNA lab. Just because a lab exists, that doesn't mean we can trust any result they give us. If one person working on the analysis has a private agenda that is strongly antithetical to what we're trying to accomplish, we're toast. Such tests are too easy to sabotage. We might as well not even try it."
-Lloyd Pye

[quote=Dancing_Doll]In other words, they will only believe the results if it agrees with their pre-determined conclusion.


You are often at your best when you play devil's advocate. You own a sharp and properly skeptical mind! I wish you would have posted the URL where you grabbed the above. Possibly here?

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forum/forum_comments/1960/ (lol, come'on Doll...do your own homework, you're taking the easy road up the mountainside)

Pye is correct with his suspicions. For many reasons. To give up control of that skull, which has many unique qualities which have already been determined to differentiate it from any other 100% human skull on this planet, would be a big mistake. That skull would disappear totally from the known world.

Have you ever heard of Nicolai Tesla? Where did all of his inventions disappear to, once he sold the patents to them or had the US Government steal them from him? Poof - relegated to secret Gov sponsored laboratories or to some shelf in perhaps, Warehouse 13.

And Lloyd probably does own a large degree of 'wanting to be famous, genetics'. That doesn't make him an asshole, in my book.

Dancing_Doll wrote:
My question is... if this holds credibility within the scientific community, then why aren't archeologists and academics trying to get a hold of this skull for testing. To my understanding, this skull was found in Mexico by a couple in the 1930's and they "gave it" to Lloyd Pye to do research. The reason for this is uncertain, given that Lloyd Pye is not a scientist or an academic, but rather an American novelist. All of the research being done in these labs is funded by Lloyd Pye's organization that (wait for it!) are accepting donations from the public for "testing and research". But only if the testing and research is being done by his own pre-arranged labs.


Mainstream archeology and academia are the very last bastions which want any part of what this skull actually is...to be determined. I think when the genes are finally sequenced fully..those conclusions will destroy 200 years of mainstream direction of theoretical guesswork. It's going to blow them out of the proverbial pond.

Lloyd has received $500 usd from me over the last two years. The Republicans and Democrats have never received a penny. I've not donated anything to Save The Children or Greenpeace, either. So, I must be a cold hearted bastard (and a fucking loon to boot).

Dancing_Doll wrote:
If this is of such monumental importance, why does this random guy have it in his possession and why is he in charge of the "research" on it.

Easy. Because he can make millions by doctoring lab results, and writing books and polluting the minds of the general public who buy into the concept of it. If this man has in his possession, a genuine artifact of a hybrid alien/human skull... then why isn't modern academia wanting in on the research?


Rather than spending your valuable online life surfing debunking websites...try going to the Horse's Mouth sometimes and spending some time checking out the propaganda (yes, skeptically you must consider it all to be propaganda, before deciding it is complete rubbish or possibly something to keep abreast of in the future).

http://www.starchildproject.com/dna2010.htm
* Fibers in the Bone
* Morgellons / hydrocephaly
* Skull brain case / bone thickness
* DNA tests
* Carbon 14 results

You do know that this kind of testing is expensive as hell. And as I stated, he is not a wealthy person at all. His attempts to raise funds have not 'tricked me' out of 500 dollars. I've spent that much on booze in a weekend before (that's fcking ridiculous too).

Mainstream science is his major foe right now. That is the last I'll state about that, you are repeatedly asking the same obvious questions expecting different answers. Come'on Doll. Engage your deliciously magnificent collection of neurons.

Dancing_Doll wrote:
And even IF this skull was determined to be a crossbreed of intergalactic origins, how does that make his theory on the origins of life accurate? How does it also make the legend of Bigfoot fact as well? He can take apart evolution and claim there are gaps in the fossil record, therefore the theory is wrong... but he expects people to take a rather monumental leap of faith based on the evidence of this one skull that he refuses to part with for unbiased scientific testing.


Yanno, I did not have the benefit of anyone else I know, trying to spoonfeed me the connections you're asking me to provide you. I bumped into Lloyd Pye in August 2008 on the internet. And I did to 'him' like I did here at Lush for the first several months... I lurked and read all his stuff, disregarding what I thought was crapola and diving deeping into what I felt warranted further study.

I don't know if Lloyd Pye worships the anti-christ or if he gets off on child porn, and I don't care. He's just a guy, who has something in his possession which is very unique and he's trying to buck 'the establishment of mainstream science and public opinion' to determine what the fuck he has, if anything.

Why does that threaten you or anything you might believe in now? If you believe in evolution from a physical morphing point of view...why not your own evolving thinking. Evolving theories of theories? lol

Oh shit...another fcking conspiracy ( I forgot ) sorry to waste your time.

ahem, what might Sasquatch/yeti/Bigfoot be...if anything? What might they have ever been, if anything? Unless there are hundreds of hoaxers out there traipsing around in man-made humongous feet, leaving tracks in weird places where they might not ever be seen.

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 2:38:35 PM

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Dancing_Doll wrote:
He can take apart evolution and claim there are gaps in the fossil record, therefore the theory is wrong... but he expects people to take a rather monumental leap of faith based on the evidence of this one skull that he refuses to part with for unbiased scientific testing.


Who determines the bias? lol Yours is quite apparent, Doll. Should we give this skull to mainstream evolutionist proponents and trust that it will be accurately investigated?

There are gaps in the fossil record for hominid history. Approximately a 4 million year gap. The displays of partial skeletons are 'guessed at' and often construed to look as human as possible. But those are merely theories of the establishment anthropology realm.

And yet...they get a pass, because they have specified advanced degrees printed on sheepskin.

Sorry, I don't go for that shit. You might...

If ya can't beat 'em... pay someone to do it for you.
myself
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 3:27:18 PM

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In the first vid the comparison of the skulls would've convinced anyone that looked at them that mankind did not evolve from ape.

I believe -
"If the entire history of earth was summed up in 24 hours, how long will the human race live in comparison?
The earth is like 4.5 billion years old. If you cram all those 4.5 billion years into 24 hours, about how long does the human race last in comparison?

Best answer -
Humanity has been around for approximately 10,000 years of anything worth note, now, lets put that in proportion to 4.5 billion.

10,000

4,500,000,00 and then we have 24 hours. We set up a proportion. 10k over 4.5b, and x over 24. multiply 10k by 24, you get 240,000 divided by 4.5 billion, and the final answer is: .000053 hours.

Now to convert that to minutes,

60

1

x
--
.000053

Multiply .000053 by sixty, divided by 1. .00318 minutes is our answer. repeat that for seconds.

All in all, about .1908 seconds."

To put this another way -it would take you 24 hours to drive the highway of Earth's History before arriving to where Humanity's History begins and ends in less than a second. We Are A Grease Spot On The Road. A tiny grease spot that can barley be seen.

I believe -
"Under the Endangered Species Act of 1973 "the term 'endangered species' means any species which is in danger of extinction throughout all or a significant portion of its range other than a species of the Class Insecta determined by the Secretary to constitute a pest whose protection under the provisions of this Act would present an overwhelming and overriding risk to man. "A threatened species "means any species which is likely to become an endangered species within the foreseeable future throughout all or a significant portion of its range." In other words, an endangered species is a group of plants or animals that is in danger of becoming extinct. Many scientists say a species is endangered when its numbers are so low or its habitat so threatened that it will become extinct in 10 to 15 years unless conservation measures are used to save it.

People who study wildlife think there are at least 10 million and possibly as many as 30 million species of plants and animals on Earth. They estimate that more than one-tenth of these species are endangered. That adds up to at least one million kinds of plants and animals that could become extinct by the year 2015.

In recent years the rate of extinction has increased too fast to too many species of plants and animals, in too many places . In the past 300 years, about 100 kinds of mammals have become extinct. Right now hundreds of birds, mammals, reptiles, amphibians, and fish are endangered, as well as more than 25,000 plants. The American Museum of Natural History in New York reports: "Three species become extinct every hour of every day. More than 30 species become extinct while you sleep at night. More than 20,000 species become extinct every year.""

I believe -
"Each year the IISE announces a list of the Top 10 New Species for the preceding calendar year. The Top 10 New Species described in 2009 are listed below with links to additional details about each species."
http://species.asu.edu/Top10

Does anyone here think proving or disproving that man came from ape proves there is or isn't evolution? Is birth, death and decay and birth, death and decay evolution or just life and then death?

I believe
"Life has existed on Earth for 18 hours.
Animal life has existed on Earth's land surfaces for 2 hours and 24 minutes.
The mammal order evolved 18 minutes ago.
The hominid family has been around for 1 minute and 24 seconds.
Humans have been civilized for something like 0.15 seconds.
Earth may remain at least marginally habitable for perhaps another five hours."

Really have to laugh at the supreme human being though. And really give us credit for our good intent to learn : ) Who knows?

..but we special-just ask us! lol





Torture the data long enough and they will confess to anything.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 3:33:14 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 6,553
Location: Your dirty fantasy
WellMadeMale wrote:
Dancing_Doll wrote:
The following is a direct quote from Lloyd Pye:

"To the best of my knowledge, the top lab in the world for what we need done is the Kureha Special Laboratory in Iwaki, Fukushima Prefecture. That's about 200 kilometers northeast of Tokyo. What I need to determine is whether or not we can trust the results of any analysis we get from them. This was no different during the long struggle to find the proper DNA lab. Just because a lab exists, that doesn't mean we can trust any result they give us. If one person working on the analysis has a private agenda that is strongly antithetical to what we're trying to accomplish, we're toast. Such tests are too easy to sabotage. We might as well not even try it."
-Lloyd Pye

[quote=Dancing_Doll]In other words, they will only believe the results if it agrees with their pre-determined conclusion.


You are often at your best when you play devil's advocate. You own a sharp and properly skeptical mind! I wish you would have posted the URL where you grabbed the above. Possibly here?

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forum/forum_comments/1960/ (lol, come'on Doll...do your own homework, you're taking the easy road up the mountainside)


The original quote is by Lloyd Pye from his 2003 Christmas Newsletter from his website (which I have also looked at). It's available on many different websites, including his own. It's not something that was 'created' by a hoax website, although it has been referenced there to show the obvious holes in his logic.
http://www.world-mysteries.com/starchild_funding.htm


WellMadeMale wrote:

Pye is correct with his suspicions. For many reasons. To give up control of that skull, which has many unique qualities which have already been determined to differentiate it from any other 100% human skull on this planet, would be a big mistake. That skull would disappear totally from the known world.

Have you ever heard of Nicolai Tesla? Where did all of his inventions disappear to, once he sold the patents to them or had the US Government steal them from him? Poof - relegated to secret Gov sponsored laboratories or to some shelf in perhaps, Warehouse 13.

And Lloyd probably does own a large degree of 'wanting to be famous, genetics'. That doesn't make him an asshole, in my book.


It doesn't make him an asshole, but you can't dangle something like a carrot in front of the academic community and say "I have something that proves modern science wrong, but no, I'm not going to let you get near it cause I don't trust you". If this skull is really an alien/human hybrid, then I can see there is surely still lots of research and funding to be done. One man and his team of paid "lab researchers" are not going to change the history books.

WellMadeMale wrote:


Dancing_Doll wrote:
My question is... if this holds credibility within the scientific community, then why aren't archeologists and academics trying to get a hold of this skull for testing. To my understanding, this skull was found in Mexico by a couple in the 1930's and they "gave it" to Lloyd Pye to do research. The reason for this is uncertain, given that Lloyd Pye is not a scientist or an academic, but rather an American novelist. All of the research being done in these labs is funded by Lloyd Pye's organization that (wait for it!) are accepting donations from the public for "testing and research". But only if the testing and research is being done by his own pre-arranged labs.


Mainstream archeology and academia are the very last bastions which want any part of what this skull actually is...to be determined. I think when the genes are finally sequenced fully..those conclusions will destroy 200 years of mainstream direction of theoretical guesswork. It's going to blow them out of the proverbial pond.

Lloyd has received $500 usd from me over the last two years. The Republicans and Democrats have never received a penny. I've not donated anything to Save The Children or Greenpeace, either. So, I must be a cold hearted bastard (and a fucking loon to boot).

Dancing_Doll wrote:
If this is of such monumental importance, why does this random guy have it in his possession and why is he in charge of the "research" on it.

Easy. Because he can make millions by doctoring lab results, and writing books and polluting the minds of the general public who buy into the concept of it. If this man has in his possession, a genuine artifact of a hybrid alien/human skull... then why isn't modern academia wanting in on the research?


Rather than spending your valuable online life surfing debunking websites...try going to the Horse's Mouth sometimes and spending some time checking out the propaganda (yes, skeptically you must consider it all to be propaganda, before deciding it is complete rubbish or possibly something to keep abreast of in the future).

http://www.starchildproject.com/dna2010.htm
* Fibers in the Bone
* Morgellons / hydrocephaly
* Skull brain case / bone thickness
* DNA tests
* Carbon 14 results


Actually I looked at his website that references all the DNA results his 'lab scientists' reported. The problem with going to the "Horse's Mouth" is that he can say whatever he wants to. For me, science is only as credible as the studies being conducted. I can spend hours pouring through the results, but if I don't trust the methodology, then what's the point?

Here is a quote from his website, and I'm using this to illustrate the weak methodology he uses with which to draw his conclusions: "This looks like bacteria or fungi, but three mycologists (fungi specialists) who examined the images felt that none of the fibers were bacterial or fungal in growth. Only a Maldi-Tof test can determine that for certain, but until one is conducted, their judgment is assumed to be correct". http://www.starchildproject.com/fibers.htm

To me, this is not credible science. We are basing assumptions about the origins of this skull on what three unnamed 'specialists' are theorizing based on slide images (and the paycheque they receive from Pye). Why are we supposed to assume this is correct based on such weak methodology? To me, much of his theorization is to assume everything is correct unless proven otherwise by scientific method that he doesn't want to subject this skull to for 'fear' the government will take it away from him.

WellMadeMale wrote:

You do know that this kind of testing is expensive as hell. And as I stated, he is not a wealthy person at all. His attempts to raise funds have not 'tricked me' out of 500 dollars. I've spent that much on booze in a weekend before (that's fcking ridiculous too).

Mainstream science is his major foe right now. That is the last I'll state about that, you are repeatedly asking the same obvious questions expecting different answers. Come'on Doll. Engage your deliciously magnificent collection of neurons.

Dancing_Doll wrote:
And even IF this skull was determined to be a crossbreed of intergalactic origins, how does that make his theory on the origins of life accurate? How does it also make the legend of Bigfoot fact as well? He can take apart evolution and claim there are gaps in the fossil record, therefore the theory is wrong... but he expects people to take a rather monumental leap of faith based on the evidence of this one skull that he refuses to part with for unbiased scientific testing.


Yanno, I did not have the benefit of anyone else I know, trying to spoonfeed me the connections you're asking me to provide you. I bumped into Lloyd Pye in August 2008 on the internet. And I did to 'him' like I did here at Lush for the first several months... I lurked and read all his stuff, disregarding what I thought was crapola and diving deeping into what I felt warranted further study.

I don't know if Lloyd Pye worships the anti-christ or if he gets off on child porn, and I don't care. He's just a guy, who has something in his possession which is very unique and he's trying to buck 'the establishment of mainstream science and public opinion' to determine what the fuck he has, if anything.

Why does that threaten you or anything you might believe in now? If you believe in evolution from a physical morphing point of view...why not your own evolving thinking. Evolving theories of theories? lol

Oh shit...another fcking conspiracy ( I forgot ) sorry to waste your time.

ahem, what might Sasquatch/yeti/Bigfoot be...if anything? What might they have ever been, if anything? Unless there are hundreds of hoaxers out there traipsing around in man-made humongous feet, leaving tracks in weird places where they might not ever be seen.


It actually doesn't threaten me or my belief systems. If evolution was proven to be false, I will not have a breakdown. Evolution is not my religion. To me, it's the most scientifically valid theory on the origins of man at this point in time. I don't have an issue if Pye turns out to be correct, either, and we are actually alien hybrids. I have an issue with taking him to be correct, until proven otherwise (such as his style of scientific methodology seems to prefer), based on extremely weak evidence. If the evidence had legitimate credibility, then I have no problem believing in something. But this is basically like a modern creationist fable. I understand that you believe that this man's theories are valid and that his crusade to prove it will eventually usurp the theory of evolution. I am just more skeptical than you and require a much higher degree of evidence. That includes the evidence required for me to believe in BigFoot, the abominable snowman or fairies and elves. But if you want to make a BigFoot Thread and make a case for it, I'd be happy to review the evidence that made you believe in them. icon_smile

From what I have seen so far, there are major red flags that I cannot ignore or get my head around. I'm all for evolving theories. But I'm also not one to believe in everything and anything just because it's technically possible.

DirtyMartini
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 4:06:52 PM

Rank: Purveyor of Poetry & Porn

Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 5,833
Location: Right here on Lush Stories..., United States
I am fairly certain that some of my neighbors were fathered by aliens...OK, illegal aliens...but, aliens nonetheless...
coffee


You know you want it, you know you need it bad...get it now on Amazon.com...
Lush Erotica, an Anthology of Award Winning Sex Stories

myself
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 4:10:33 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/17/2010
Posts: 966
Location: .showyourdick.org/
This study lost me completely when it began comparing the concept of race.

I believe -
"The concept of race is a social and cultural construction. . . . Race simply cannot be tested or proven scientifically,'' according to the policy statement issued by the American Anthropological Association. "It is clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. The concept of `race' has no validity . . . in the human species.'' Race is a socially defined concept that is used to categorize people according to their physical characteristics, and as such, a biologically meaningless category. It would be obvious by now that most people misuse the term "race," since the 'pure races' or genetically homogeneous human populations alluded to, do not exist, nor is there any valid evidence that they have ever existed. Unfortunately, these antiquated racial concepts persist as social conventions that serve to foster institutional discrimination. Race has a social and political significance because of racism, such ideas as biological superiority or deficits among races, the assumption that intelligence, learning ability, physical endurance and such are somehow linked with genetic characteristics that differ systematically between "races," have often been used to support this racism."

edit- we special-just ask us! lol I truly can't help myself -heeeeeelp!

Torture the data long enough and they will confess to anything.
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 4:30:27 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 6,553
Location: Your dirty fantasy
WellMadeMale wrote:
Dancing_Doll wrote:
He can take apart evolution and claim there are gaps in the fossil record, therefore the theory is wrong... but he expects people to take a rather monumental leap of faith based on the evidence of this one skull that he refuses to part with for unbiased scientific testing.


Who determines the bias? lol Yours is quite apparent, Doll. Should we give this skull to mainstream evolutionist proponents and trust that it will be accurately investigated?

There are gaps in the fossil record for hominid history. Approximately a 4 million year gap. The displays of partial skeletons are 'guessed at' and often construed to look as human as possible. But those are merely theories of the establishment anthropology realm.

And yet...they get a pass, because they have specified advanced degrees printed on sheepskin.

Sorry, I don't go for that shit. You might...


Yes I do go for that shit because to be a credible scientist, you need to have a legitimate degree. Would you let me operate on you if I wasn't a surgeon? When it comes to the realm of science, you can't just 'figure it out' as you go. A degree might not make a huge difference in certain cases (such a BS in Psych for example), but when it comes to science, my confidence level rises when I see the level of their credentials. But that's just me...

I guess I don't understand how you can be so skeptical of anthropologists, academic scientists and "evolutionary proponents" and believe they are manipulating skeletons and falsifying records in order to prove their theories, but you don't have the same skepticism of Lloyd Pye and his team of paid lab researchers. What about their agenda? Don't you think that's affecting their research and what they post and more importantly what they don't post on starchild.com?

Dancing_Doll
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 4:51:01 PM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 6,553
Location: Your dirty fantasy
myself wrote:
In the first vid the comparison of the skulls would've convinced anyone that looked at them that mankind did not evolve from ape.


Man did not evolve from ape. There was a common ancestor and the branches split... primates going to one branch, humans going to the other.

You can also look at the vast differences in dog breeds (although this is on a micro-evolutionary scale). Different breeds within one species were produced (quite quickly in terms of human history) when certain traits were selected for. That's why you can look at the skeleton of a chihuahua and the skeleton of a saint bernard and think there is no way that those two creatures evolved from one common ancestor - the wolf. Yet we know this to be fact.





myself
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 4:55:52 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/17/2010
Posts: 966
Location: .showyourdick.org/
I believe all interest groups can and may doctor facts to further their causes. With that said, really don't think the world's vast scientific community is allied or organized enough to lie about hundreds of years of findings and keep the lies going until present date. Liar

I believe -
"How many species have actually gone extinct?
Scientists have estimated that over the course of Earth's history, anywhere between 1 and 4 billion species have existed on this planet. Be it through disease, genetic obsolescence, over-predation or any number of other factors, the overwhelming majority of these species are now extinct. Of these billions of species, roughly 50 million still survive into the modern era. While these numbers are certainly extreme at first glance, it serves as proof that extinction, while a sad occurrence, is a part of life for all living things."

Pretty sure we're going to take our turn with the mass.

A question -Why did it take these supreme beings (mankind) so long to make it to Earth. Hell. they could have been raping the earth for billions of years? Not likely.


Torture the data long enough and they will confess to anything.
Magical_felix
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 5:51:21 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,196
Location: California
I have a special respect for people that can work the word "usurp" or "usurper" into conversation and totally win a debate!

Good points on both sides though... One more than the other but that's fine.




myself
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 3:13:06 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/17/2010
Posts: 966
Location: .showyourdick.org/
Dancing_Doll wrote:
myself wrote:
In the first vid the comparison of the skulls would've convinced anyone that looked at them that mankind did not evolve from ape.


Man did not evolve from ape. There was a common ancestor and the branches split... primates going to one branch, humans going to the other.

You can also look at the vast differences in dog breeds (although this is on a micro-evolutionary scale). Different breeds within one species were produced (quite quickly in terms of human history) when certain traits were selected for. That's why you can look at the skeleton of a chihuahua and the skeleton of a saint bernard and think there is no way that those two creatures evolved from one common ancestor - the wolf. Yet we know this to be fact.


Doll, I may get back with you on this -my brain hurts : )

I'll just say for now that, the human species is the epitome of usurp.

shi_squared wrote:
I like reading all of the different stories about the beginning of man, but I was taught growing up that it really doesn't matter at all how we began, what matters is what we do with life once we are in charge of it. I still agree with that too. What difference does it make where we came from? It doesn't change the here and now one bit. If I had to guess I would say that bodies evolve just the same way that spirits do, so that would be evolution. But I really don't care.

The story I was taught in my family was that wondering where we came from all the time was like going to a doctor with a wound, and instead of patching you up and healing you, the doctor just keeps asking where you got hurt, what kind of weapon it was, why they would do such a thing, whether you fought back, over and over until finally you just die because the doctor was so pre occupied with the past. Same with going on and on about our beginnings in my opinion.


I love this -Thank you shi_squared : )




Torture the data long enough and they will confess to anything.
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 7:21:36 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 659,513
Magical_felix wrote:


I pretty much agree with everything you're saying here shishi but I can see the religious folk bringing up the point that it does change the here and now because if they lead good wholesome lives they will go to heaven. Part of their belief is that god created the earth and put us here. So if they believe god is powerful enough to create life on earth than he is worthy of being worshipped and feared.
.


But why would they not just lead a good life anyway?? Do they really need to obsess over some creation story in order to feel like they can do good things in life? Is every thing they do that is not evil only for the hope of getting to this 'heaven'? That seems like a sorry excuse.
Live your life and worship the way you choose, and if you really are spiritual then maybe you will trust in the fates of your soul when the heart in your present body stops. If it was proven that your god did not exist, would all the followers turn into heartless monsters? If not, then why worry so much about trees and start caring about forests in my opinion.
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 8:15:28 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,196
Location: California
shi_squared wrote:
Magical_felix wrote:


I pretty much agree with everything you're saying here shishi but I can see the religious folk bringing up the point that it does change the here and now because if they lead good wholesome lives they will go to heaven. Part of their belief is that god created the earth and put us here. So if they believe god is powerful enough to create life on earth than he is worthy of being worshipped and feared.
.


But why would they not just lead a good life anyway?? Do they really need to obsess over some creation story in order to feel like they can do good things in life? Is every thing they do that is not evil only for the hope of getting to this 'heaven'? That seems like a sorry excuse.
Live your life and worship the way you choose, and if you really are spiritual then maybe you will trust in the fates of your soul when the heart in your present body stops. If it was proven that your god did not exist, would all the followers turn into heartless monsters? If not, then why worry so much about trees and start caring about forests in my opinion.


I can't say I disagree with you Shishi. Who knows what the religious community would do if god was without a doubt proven to not exist. They might go apeshit and sin their asses off, continue being good people or deny the proof and keep on believing. That whole faith thing... But this is a whole other debate that we love so much around here.



Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 8:20:40 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,196
Location: California
myself wrote:
Dancing_Doll wrote:
myself wrote:
In the first vid the comparison of the skulls would've convinced anyone that looked at them that mankind did not evolve from ape.


Man did not evolve from ape. There was a common ancestor and the branches split... primates going to one branch, humans going to the other.

You can also look at the vast differences in dog breeds (although this is on a micro-evolutionary scale). Different breeds within one species were produced (quite quickly in terms of human history) when certain traits were selected for. That's why you can look at the skeleton of a chihuahua and the skeleton of a saint bernard and think there is no way that those two creatures evolved from one common ancestor - the wolf. Yet we know this to be fact.


Doll, I may get back with you on this -my brain hurts : )

I'll just say for now that, the human species is the epitome of usurp.

shi_squared wrote:
I like reading all of the different stories about the beginning of man, but I was taught growing up that it really doesn't matter at all how we began, what matters is what we do with life once we are in charge of it. I still agree with that too. What difference does it make where we came from? It doesn't change the here and now one bit. If I had to guess I would say that bodies evolve just the same way that spirits do, so that would be evolution. But I really don't care.

The story I was taught in my family was that wondering where we came from all the time was like going to a doctor with a wound, and instead of patching you up and healing you, the doctor just keeps asking where you got hurt, what kind of weapon it was, why they would do such a thing, whether you fought back, over and over until finally you just die because the doctor was so pre occupied with the past. Same with going on and on about our beginnings in my opinion.


I love this -Thank you shi_squared : )




Quote:
I have a special respect for people that can work the word "usurp" or "usurper" into conversation and totally win a debate!


You forgot the second part myself. icon_smile



Dancing_Doll
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 8:57:47 AM

Rank: Alpha Blonde
Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2010
Posts: 6,553
Location: Your dirty fantasy
Magical_felix wrote:
I have a special respect for people that can work the word "usurp" or "usurper" into conversation and totally win a debate!

Good points on both sides though... One more than the other but that's fine.






myself
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:27:34 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/17/2010
Posts: 966
Location: .showyourdick.org/
Magical_felix wrote:
Quote:
I have a special respect for people that can work the word "usurp" or "usurper" into conversation and totally win a debate!


You forgot the second part myself. icon_smile


just practicing out loud : )

Torture the data long enough and they will confess to anything.
myself
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:29:12 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/17/2010
Posts: 966
Location: .showyourdick.org/
Dancing_Doll wrote:
Magical_felix wrote:
I have a special respect for people that can work the word "usurp" or "usurper" into conversation and totally win a debate!

Good points on both sides though... One more than the other but that's fine.






good stuff : )

Torture the data long enough and they will confess to anything.
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