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This is so very disturbing. Probably on the verge of child abuse. Options · View
Dirty_D
Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 6:41:45 PM

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My issue is with the zealots of the world not the everyday average person to whom their assorted gods are comforts. However, even the zealots have the right to raise their children how they see fit...


just my humble opinions


MissyLuvsYa
Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 7:49:17 PM

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Location: somewhere on the coast, United States
I don't think he is abused.

And as for as zealots. Most of us are zealots for something. Think about it! Maybe you are a zealot for being anti-zealot.

I'd hate to not feel strongly about something.
carmen_has36
Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 9:17:05 PM

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'Stupid is as stupid does'
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 9:56:21 PM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 769,105
im not anti religion either but holy shit this is scary it gets really into it there is some major brainwashing going on here i mena this is beyond monkey see monkey do this is freaking psychotic. i think the toddlers in tiaras reference from a previous poster is accurate. this kid is going to be yelling at me to praise jesus in my dreams tonight!

ps it kinda cute (but totally fucking nuts)
Buz
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 6:39:42 AM

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I am not bugged about it at all.


lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 6:45:43 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,488
Location: Alabama, United States
LadyX wrote:
Well, who knows how spontaneous it really is, but if he enjoys doing it, then why does it matter what religion has to do with it? To say that any religious upbringing amounts to brainwashing is a valid, debatable point, but that's a broader argument to make, and not much more open-minded than one might accuse religious zealots of being.


My kid enjoys walking around in his underwear, should I allow him to do it in public? If we allow kids to do something because they enjoy it, things will go downhill even more quickly. As a parent Id' never allow my child to be exploited in this way. A large degree of religious upbringing may very well be brainwashing. This IS without a doubt brainwashing. Maybe his parents are really good God-fearing people and maybe they are "normal" and well adjusted. But from what I've seen I'd say that is unlikely. It that boy were my nephew or cousing or grandchild, I'd be having a serious conversation with his parents about them exploiting him.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 7:03:14 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 769,105
Maybe the little guy will be able to make up his own mind as he gets older - it looks like he is quite happy from what I can see. I'm not saying I like it, but there are worse things.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 7:04:47 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 769,105
Sorry, double posted.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 7:09:17 AM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,674
Location: Cakeland, United States
lafayettemister wrote:
LadyX wrote:
Well, who knows how spontaneous it really is, but if he enjoys doing it, then why does it matter what religion has to do with it? To say that any religious upbringing amounts to brainwashing is a valid, debatable point, but that's a broader argument to make, and not much more open-minded than one might accuse religious zealots of being.


My kid enjoys walking around in his underwear, should I allow him to do it in public? If we allow kids to do something because they enjoy it, things will go downhill even more quickly. As a parent Id' never allow my child to be exploited in this way. A large degree of religious upbringing may very well be brainwashing. This IS without a doubt brainwashing. Maybe his parents are really good God-fearing people and maybe they are "normal" and well adjusted. But from what I've seen I'd say that is unlikely. It that boy were my nephew or cousing or grandchild, I'd be having a serious conversation with his parents about them exploiting him.


If you were my brother or brother in-law or cousin or well-meaning busy-body neighbor and you decided to have a come-to-jesus discussion with me or with my wife, about how our pre-teen child was being raised and taught, or exposed to experiences and learning...because you disagreed with my religion or belief system...whether I was raising him or her to live a nudist lifestyle, attend our church every day & night, play every sport known to mankind year round, or do something else that you disagreed with...

I'd have to kindly ask you to 'Mind your own fucking business', before I press harassment charges against your oppressive and intrusive ass with the local authorities.

Seriously Mister...what you and a few others are proposing - to me, sounds as oppressive (under the do-as-I-do and do-as-I-say - school of thought) as what certain fundamentalist christian/muslim or other religious sects propose for all the rest of mankind.

You might theorize that WMM is not into being controlled or having other people lord over him. You would be correctafuckingmundo.




Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
CuriousButterfly
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 7:11:46 AM

Rank: Flirtatiously Fluttering

Joined: 7/19/2010
Posts: 2,426
Location: NOYB, Canada
WellMadeMale wrote:
lafayettemister wrote:
LadyX wrote:
Well, who knows how spontaneous it really is, but if he enjoys doing it, then why does it matter what religion has to do with it? To say that any religious upbringing amounts to brainwashing is a valid, debatable point, but that's a broader argument to make, and not much more open-minded than one might accuse religious zealots of being.


My kid enjoys walking around in his underwear, should I allow him to do it in public? If we allow kids to do something because they enjoy it, things will go downhill even more quickly. As a parent Id' never allow my child to be exploited in this way. A large degree of religious upbringing may very well be brainwashing. This IS without a doubt brainwashing. Maybe his parents are really good God-fearing people and maybe they are "normal" and well adjusted. But from what I've seen I'd say that is unlikely. It that boy were my nephew or cousing or grandchild, I'd be having a serious conversation with his parents about them exploiting him.


If you were my brother or brother in-law or cousin or well-meaning busy-body neighbor and you decided to have a come-to-jesus discussion with me or with my wife, about how our pre-teen child was being raised and taught, or exposed to experiences and learning...because you disagreed with my religion or belief system...whether I was raising him or her to live a nudist lifestyle, attend our church every day & night, play every sport known to mankind year round, or do something else that you disagreed with...

I'd have to kindly ask you to 'Mind your own fucking business', before I press harassment charges against your oppressive and intrusive ass with the local authorities.

Seriously Mister...what you and a few others are proposing - to me, sounds as oppressive (under the do-as-I-do and do-as-I-say - school of thought) as what certain fundamentalist christian/muslim or other religious sects propose for all the rest of mankind.

You might theorize that WMM is not into being controlled or having other people lord over him. You would be correctafuckingmundo.




very well said WMM

LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 7:29:20 AM

Rank: Artistic Tart
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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
lafayettemister wrote:

My kid enjoys walking around in his underwear, should I allow him to do it in public? If we allow kids to do something because they enjoy it, things will go downhill even more quickly. As a parent Id' never allow my child to be exploited in this way. A large degree of religious upbringing may very well be brainwashing. This IS without a doubt brainwashing. Maybe his parents are really good God-fearing people and maybe they are "normal" and well adjusted. But from what I've seen I'd say that is unlikely. It that boy were my nephew or cousing or grandchild, I'd be having a serious conversation with his parents about them exploiting him.


I'm not advocating that parents let their children do whatever they want, across the board. I think that people are letting their distaste for raising children in a religion get confused with the possibility that this child is being exploited, abused, or is somehow a danger to himself or others. There's really not much evidence that any of those things are occurring here, and without them, I think an outsider crosses the line from concerned observer to judgmental meddler.

Not that I would ever set foot in that kind of church, or prefer to study public preaching at a young age, but aren't we better off saving our "powerless to help" outrage for children that are actually in a dire situation, instead of one we just disagree with from a parenting perspective?
lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 7:41:38 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,488
Location: Alabama, United States
WellMadeMale wrote:
lafayettemister wrote:
LadyX wrote:
Well, who knows how spontaneous it really is, but if he enjoys doing it, then why does it matter what religion has to do with it? To say that any religious upbringing amounts to brainwashing is a valid, debatable point, but that's a broader argument to make, and not much more open-minded than one might accuse religious zealots of being.


My kid enjoys walking around in his underwear, should I allow him to do it in public? If we allow kids to do something because they enjoy it, things will go downhill even more quickly. As a parent Id' never allow my child to be exploited in this way. A large degree of religious upbringing may very well be brainwashing. This IS without a doubt brainwashing. Maybe his parents are really good God-fearing people and maybe they are "normal" and well adjusted. But from what I've seen I'd say that is unlikely. It that boy were my nephew or cousing or grandchild, I'd be having a serious conversation with his parents about them exploiting him.


If you were my brother or brother in-law or cousin or well-meaning busy-body neighbor and you decided to have a come-to-jesus discussion with me or with my wife, about how our pre-teen child was being raised and taught, or exposed to experiences and learning...because you disagreed with my religion or belief system...whether I was raising him or her to live a nudist lifestyle, attend our church every day & night, play every sport known to mankind year round, or do something else that you disagreed with...

I'd have to kindly ask you to 'Mind your own fucking business', before I press harassment charges against your oppressive and intrusive ass with the local authorities.

Seriously Mister...what you and a few others are proposing - to me, sounds as oppressive (under the do-as-I-do and do-as-I-say - school of thought) as what certain fundamentalist christian/muslim or other religious sects propose for all the rest of mankind.

You might theorize that WMM is not into being controlled or having other people lord over him. You would be correctafuckingmundo.




Too many times people, especially children have been abused or otherwise exploited/injured because "well meaning busy body....." didn't get involved. How many times have people turned a blind eye to something that seemed just a bit not right, only to later find out that their intuition was right.. only too late to do anything. How often do we see something in the news and wonder, how didn't the parents, grandparents, neighbors, teachers, etc. know what was going on with that child. Having a serious conversation with someone doesn't mean that I'm expecting them to to do as I do. But with the well being of a very innocent child at stake, I think a talk is the least that a person should do. Not a random stranger, but a respected and loved member of the family. And if I had a talk with parents like this and they gave me good reasons and put my mind at ease that the kid is ok.. then I'd back off. But would keep a watchful eye. I also think that from what I've read of you in this forum, if this were your grandchild, you'd probably ask his parents what the fuck they are doing. I doubt you'd bite your tongue and think this is all hunky dory.

WMM, i respect your opinion. You always say what's on your mind without any fluff. I jsut disagree with you. I'm very worried that this kid will grow up so disillusioned that he won't know his ass from a hole in the ground. This is NOT about religion. This, in my mind, is about the welfare of a child. And I think this kid is being used. Could I be wrong? Sure, it's happened once or twice in my lifetime.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Magical_felix
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:51:31 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,456
Location: California
Would this argument be happening if the video was about a kid that could play the guitar like a professional? Or a tennis prodigy? Or maybe a kid that was a really good singer? Maybe the parents of the child were guitar players, tennis players or singers. Obviously the parents would have had some influence there... The answer is no. We would probably praise the child for being gifted or good at whatever he is doing for his age.

This argument has everything to do with religion and not the intervention of a child that is possibly being exploited.

Rembacher
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:56:27 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,107
Magical_felix wrote:
Would this argument be happening if the video was about a kid that could play the guitar like a professional? Or a tennis prodigy? Or maybe a kid that was a really good singer? Maybe the parents of the child were guitar players, tennis players or singers. Obviously the parents would have had some influence there... The answer is no. We would probably praise the child for being gifted or good at whatever he is doing for his age.

This argument has everything to do with religion and not the intervention of a child that is possibly being exploited.



Guest
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:13:09 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 769,105
It's important to take an interest in what is going on in the world around you and we especially have to look out for vulnerable members of society, or at least we should.

I don't know if this child is being exploited or not, it's hard to tell from such a brief glimpse.

Is this any better or worse than children being 'encouraged' to become e.g. actors, beauty pageant contestants or even to excel in a particular sport? Actually, I don't think so, I think it's much the same.

Still, that doesn't mean that this is abuse, but it doesn't mean that it is healthy and I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think that in allowing their son to do this that they are breaking any laws. So I don't see how it can be child abuse.

Is it any worse than this?


DirtyMartini
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:46:38 AM

Rank: Purveyor of Poetry & Porn

Joined: 10/19/2009
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Btw, the original poster here suggested the video of the four year old kid talking about religion was disturbing...not sure if I agree, and I can see others here feel the same...

Though speaking of four year olds...I don't think too many here would argue that this really is disturbing...

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http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/fashion/2011/08/16/2011-08-16_french_kids_underwear_line_markets_sexy_bras_for_4_yearolds_tot_models_wear_make.html


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Guest
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:48:12 AM

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Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 769,105
I wonder how easy it will be for the little boy to say he doesn't want to preach anymore when he's around 13 or 16 years old. Can you imagine the guilt trip? I think that's a little different than saying he doesn't like the guitar anymore. Now he doesn't "feel the spirit of the lord". He'd rather date girls and do what normal teens do. He's 4 years old now. He can be easily led or manipulated to do what's cute and what the parents want him to do. Gets them a lot of attention. Even NG was there filming him and them.
lafayettemister
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:39:22 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,488
Location: Alabama, United States
chefkathleen wrote:
I wonder how easy it will be for the little boy to say he doesn't want to preach anymore when he's around 13 or 16 years old. Can you imagine the guilt trip? I think that's a little different than saying he doesn't like the guitar anymore. Now he doesn't "feel the spirit of the lord". He'd rather date girls and do what normal teens do. He's 4 years old now. He can be easily led or manipulated to do what's cute and what the parents want him to do. Gets them a lot of attention. Even NG was there filming him and them.


Yes this is not even close to the guitar analogy. For me it isn't about religion. Religion just happens to be in this argument. Id be just as worried if this kid were given a podium to pontificate on pro-life or pro-choice, immigration, global warming, racial issues, debt ceiling vote, or any other topic wayyyyyy out of his understanding.

Like I said earlier. I grew up very religious. From an early age I was groomed to become a pastor. I preached my first sermon when I was about 14-15 years old. Even then as a teen I felt enormous pressure to live up to the standards that my family and congregation had of me. On more than one occassion one of my misdeeds over a weekend would be reported to someone in the church. "We are so disappointed in you." But even still I felt safe in ye cocoon of the church. And still do in some ways. However when I left that church andwent out into the real world, it chewed me up pretty damn good. The adults in my church and my parents certainly meant well but their efforts were counterproductive. Like Chef said, if this kid "loses" that heavenly feeling, what then?

Im entirely comfortable saying I may be over reacting due to my own history. But im also comfortable saying that this is inappropriate and unnecessary.

Please forgive any misspellings or gramatical errors as I typed all this on my smartphone.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Rembacher
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:43:37 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/16/2008
Posts: 1,107
chefkathleen wrote:
I wonder how easy it will be for the little boy to say he doesn't want to preach anymore when he's around 13 or 16 years old. Can you imagine the guilt trip? I think that's a little different than saying he doesn't like the guitar anymore. Now he doesn't "feel the spirit of the lord". He'd rather date girls and do what normal teens do. He's 4 years old now. He can be easily led or manipulated to do what's cute and what the parents want him to do. Gets them a lot of attention. Even NG was there filming him and them.


If you had a parent who was a musician, and dreamed of their child being a famous guitar player, there would be the exact same guilt trip. I watched Field of Dreams last night. And yes, it is a movie, but it illustrates it perfectly. The main character Ray Kinsella essentially had to leave home because his father's desire for Ray to be the baseball player the father wasn't, made baseball not fun anymore. There's always that fine line between pushing your child to do more with their talents, and the point where its not about the kid anymore. If this child was speaking on anything other than religion, say, lecturing on science, would you be as concerned that the child may want to eventually switch to math, but the parental pressure and guilt would be too much?

Freedom of religion means that the parents have the right to encourage their children to follow their beliefs. And yes, it is hard to go a different direction when you live in a religious household. But that's not child abuse, that's just part of growing up, and the child learning to go after his or her own dreams, and the parents learning to accept that their children are not exact replicas of them.
Magical_felix
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:51:37 AM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,456
Location: California
lafayettemister wrote:
chefkathleen wrote:
I wonder how easy it will be for the little boy to say he doesn't want to preach anymore when he's around 13 or 16 years old. Can you imagine the guilt trip? I think that's a little different than saying he doesn't like the guitar anymore. Now he doesn't "feel the spirit of the lord". He'd rather date girls and do what normal teens do. He's 4 years old now. He can be easily led or manipulated to do what's cute and what the parents want him to do. Gets them a lot of attention. Even NG was there filming him and them.


Yes this is not even close to the guitar analogy. For me it isn't about religion. Religion just happens to be in this argument. Id be just as worried if this kid were given a podium to pontificate on pro-life or pro-choice, immigration, global warming, racial issues, debt ceiling vote, or any other topic wayyyyyy out of his understanding.

Like I said earlier. I grew up very religious. From an early age I was groomed to become a pastor. I preached my first sermon when I was about 14-15 years old. Even then as a teen I felt enormous pressure to live up to the standards that my family and congregation had of me. On more than one occassion one of my misdeeds over a weekend would be reported to someone in the church. "We are so disappointed in you." But even still I felt safe in ye cocoon of the church. And still do in some ways. However when I left that church andwent out into the real world, it chewed me up pretty damn good. The adults in my church and my parents certainly meant well but their efforts were counterproductive. Like Chef said, if this kid "loses" that heavenly feeling, what then?

Im entirely comfortable saying I may be over reacting due to my own history. But im also comfortable saying that this is inappropriate and unnecessary.

Please forgive any misspellings or gramatical errors as I typed all this on my smartphone.


Music and sports IS a religion to some people. They are crazy about it it thesame way some people are crazy about religion. How do you think tiger wood's dad would have reacted if tiger said he didn't want to golf anymore at age 13? There are clips of tiger at a very young age showing of his skills on tv too. I'm sure it didn't get the same reaction... My friend is extremely hard on his son because he wants to stop skateboarding. The kid was sponsored at age 11, he's 14 now and doesn't like it anymore. He wants to concentrate on 4H but his dad isn't having it. I don't see that as any different. But everyone who sees the kid skate praises him for his radical moves!

Edit: kinda like what jebru said there in the beginning of his post I suppose.

ArtMan
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 11:12:48 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 6/29/2011
Posts: 673
Location: South Florida, United States
I see nothing wrong with this. It is their beliefs and they should have the freedom to exercise them. If the parents teach their beliefs to their children it is their RIGHT to do so!

I would have a problem with some Nazi wannabees getting involved and accusing the parents of a crime or trying to take the kid away. People doing that are a much bigger problem than this family, their child and their religious beliefs.



You are invited to read Passionate Danger, Part II, a story collaboration by Kim and ArtMan.
http://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/passionate-danger-part-ii.aspx

Dirty_D
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 1:10:50 PM

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Joined: 4/15/2011
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Okay I guess maybe I was a little misunderstood, I do not think he should be removed from his family. I do think that what his family, be real or church, have pressured him in wrong ways.

I also grew up in an ultra conservative household, I also have since rebelled and reaped the effects of leaving the fold. No doubt this also influences my thoughts as well.

I hope that when he grows older this boy recieves the option to make his own mind with out the extreme pressures that tend to go hand and hand with zealots, of any activity.


Guest
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 2:28:57 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 769,105
Magical_felix wrote:
lafayettemister wrote:
chefkathleen wrote:
I wonder how easy it will be for the little boy to say he doesn't want to preach anymore when he's around 13 or 16 years old. Can you imagine the guilt trip? I think that's a little different than saying he doesn't like the guitar anymore. Now he doesn't "feel the spirit of the lord". He'd rather date girls and do what normal teens do. He's 4 years old now. He can be easily led or manipulated to do what's cute and what the parents want him to do. Gets them a lot of attention. Even NG was there filming him and them.


Yes this is not even close to the guitar analogy. For me it isn't about religion. Religion just happens to be in this argument. Id be just as worried if this kid were given a podium to pontificate on pro-life or pro-choice, immigration, global warming, racial issues, debt ceiling vote, or any other topic wayyyyyy out of his understanding.

Like I said earlier. I grew up very religious. From an early age I was groomed to become a pastor. I preached my first sermon when I was about 14-15 years old. Even then as a teen I felt enormous pressure to live up to the standards that my family and congregation had of me. On more than one occassion one of my misdeeds over a weekend would be reported to someone in the church. "We are so disappointed in you." But even still I felt safe in ye cocoon of the church. And still do in some ways. However when I left that church andwent out into the real world, it chewed me up pretty damn good. The adults in my church and my parents certainly meant well but their efforts were counterproductive. Like Chef said, if this kid "loses" that heavenly feeling, what then?

Im entirely comfortable saying I may be over reacting due to my own history. But im also comfortable saying that this is inappropriate and unnecessary.

Please forgive any misspellings or gramatical errors as I typed all this on my smartphone.


Music and sports IS a religion to some people. They are crazy about it it thesame way some people are crazy about religion. How do you think tiger wood's dad would have reacted if tiger said he didn't want to golf anymore at age 13? There are clips of tiger at a very young age showing of his skills on tv too. I'm sure it didn't get the same reaction... My friend is extremely hard on his son because he wants to stop skateboarding. The kid was sponsored at age 11, he's 14 now and doesn't like it anymore. He wants to concentrate on 4H but his dad isn't having it. I don't see that as any different. But everyone who sees the kid skate praises him for his radical moves!

Edit: kinda like what jebru said there in the beginning of his post I suppose.


seriously good points. however there is still the fact remains that no child of 4 years old is qualified or gifted enough to preach. golf and music lie within the purview of a child, being a spiritual leader does not. so there is a difference.

is this kid being exploited? i dunno. maybe, if his parents/guardians are making money of him then yes. the same as if Tiger's dad made money off him. there is a reason that if this was a kid playing guitar or hitting a bad ass golf shot it wouldnt bother us and this does. its the same reasons why most of us dont watch Toddlers and Tiaras. its creepy to make kids act like adults and put it on TV.

and P.S. MF.... your frigging ginger instructions were wrong and i have to do it again!! :p ;-)
Dudealicious
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 2:43:09 PM

Rank: Wise Ass
Moderator

Joined: 11/12/2010
Posts: 5,621
Location: The center of the universe, Canada
Ok so I have been thinking about this since my post and watching the responses in this thread. There have been some very good arguments here and I have changed my thinking a little...

How does the video in question differ from this one?



Now do you think his parents berated him into learning all of these or did he want to learn this on his own? Does the "preacher kid" live eat and breathe religion just as much as the above does with Presidents?

I dunno dontknow

The night that changed my life, a four part series of a married man lusting after his co-worker

Guest
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 3:30:44 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 769,105
LittleMissBitch wrote:
Magical_felix wrote:
lafayettemister wrote:
chefkathleen wrote:
I wonder how easy it will be for the little boy to say he doesn't want to preach anymore when he's around 13 or 16 years old. Can you imagine the guilt trip? I think that's a little different than saying he doesn't like the guitar anymore. Now he doesn't "feel the spirit of the lord". He'd rather date girls and do what normal teens do. He's 4 years old now. He can be easily led or manipulated to do what's cute and what the parents want him to do. Gets them a lot of attention. Even NG was there filming him and them.


Yes this is not even close to the guitar analogy. For me it isn't about religion. Religion just happens to be in this argument. Id be just as worried if this kid were given a podium to pontificate on pro-life or pro-choice, immigration, global warming, racial issues, debt ceiling vote, or any other topic wayyyyyy out of his understanding.

Like I said earlier. I grew up very religious. From an early age I was groomed to become a pastor. I preached my first sermon when I was about 14-15 years old. Even then as a teen I felt enormous pressure to live up to the standards that my family and congregation had of me. On more than one occassion one of my misdeeds over a weekend would be reported to someone in the church. "We are so disappointed in you." But even still I felt safe in ye cocoon of the church. And still do in some ways. However when I left that church andwent out into the real world, it chewed me up pretty damn good. The adults in my church and my parents certainly meant well but their efforts were counterproductive. Like Chef said, if this kid "loses" that heavenly feeling, what then?

Im entirely comfortable saying I may be over reacting due to my own history. But im also comfortable saying that this is inappropriate and unnecessary.

Please forgive any misspellings or gramatical errors as I typed all this on my smartphone.


Music and sports IS a religion to some people. They are crazy about it it thesame way some people are crazy about religion. How do you think tiger wood's dad would have reacted if tiger said he didn't want to golf anymore at age 13? There are clips of tiger at a very young age showing of his skills on tv too. I'm sure it didn't get the same reaction... My friend is extremely hard on his son because he wants to stop skateboarding. The kid was sponsored at age 11, he's 14 now and doesn't like it anymore. He wants to concentrate on 4H but his dad isn't having it. I don't see that as any different. But everyone who sees the kid skate praises him for his radical moves!

Edit: kinda like what jebru said there in the beginning of his post I suppose.


seriously good points. however there is still the fact remains that no child of 4 years old is qualified or gifted enough to preach. golf and music lie within the purview of a child, being a spiritual leader does not. so there is a difference.

is this kid being exploited? i dunno. maybe, if his parents/guardians are making money of him then yes. the same as if Tiger's dad made money off him. there is a reason that if this was a kid playing guitar or hitting a bad ass golf shot it wouldnt bother us and this does. its the same reasons why most of us dont watch Toddlers and Tiaras. its creepy to make kids act like adults and put it on TV.


Good point LMB.
As to Jeb and MF. Did you see anywhere in what I wrote that the kid was being abused? Try again boys.
I think you might also want to look at Tiger Woods personal life as well as a lot of musicians or other tunnel visioned people to see how well they turned out. Money does not equate with being a happy, well rounded person. Perhaps it does for you, I don't know. dontknow
The child is 4. That's something to remember. I wouldn't care if he was saying that he had a cure for cancer my answer would be the same.
There's a difference between having a gift for knowledge, and being influenced to "preach". Some kids thrive on math, science or even learning to play guitars. But putting a suit on him and telling him to "preach it" is a whole different thing.
Buz
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 4:58:58 PM

Rank: The Linebacker
Moderator

Joined: 3/2/2011
Posts: 9,835
Location: Atlanta, United States
When the kid is 18 he can do whatever he wants to anyhow. He may or may not still be preaching as an adult, who knows. But I have no problem with how he is being raised. It is not my style of Christianity, but is is still a free country (well at least to a degree.)

Madeline Murray O'Hare the famous atheist that took school prayer to the US Supreme Court and got prayers tossed from public schools. She raised her children to be atheists but one grew up to be a Christian evangelist preacher. Definitely his choice!


Magical_felix
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 5:25:15 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,456
Location: California
chefkathleen wrote:
LittleMissBitch wrote:
Magical_felix wrote:
lafayettemister wrote:
chefkathleen wrote:
I wonder how easy it will be for the little boy to say he doesn't want to preach anymore when he's around 13 or 16 years old. Can you imagine the guilt trip? I think that's a little different than saying he doesn't like the guitar anymore. Now he doesn't "feel the spirit of the lord". He'd rather date girls and do what normal teens do. He's 4 years old now. He can be easily led or manipulated to do what's cute and what the parents want him to do. Gets them a lot of attention. Even NG was there filming him and them.


Yes this is not even close to the guitar analogy. For me it isn't about religion. Religion just happens to be in this argument. Id be just as worried if this kid were given a podium to pontificate on pro-life or pro-choice, immigration, global warming, racial issues, debt ceiling vote, or any other topic wayyyyyy out of his understanding.

Like I said earlier. I grew up very religious. From an early age I was groomed to become a pastor. I preached my first sermon when I was about 14-15 years old. Even then as a teen I felt enormous pressure to live up to the standards that my family and congregation had of me. On more than one occassion one of my misdeeds over a weekend would be reported to someone in the church. "We are so disappointed in you." But even still I felt safe in ye cocoon of the church. And still do in some ways. However when I left that church andwent out into the real world, it chewed me up pretty damn good. The adults in my church and my parents certainly meant well but their efforts were counterproductive. Like Chef said, if this kid "loses" that heavenly feeling, what then?

Im entirely comfortable saying I may be over reacting due to my own history. But im also comfortable saying that this is inappropriate and unnecessary.

Please forgive any misspellings or gramatical errors as I typed all this on my smartphone.


Music and sports IS a religion to some people. They are crazy about it it thesame way some people are crazy about religion. How do you think tiger wood's dad would have reacted if tiger said he didn't want to golf anymore at age 13? There are clips of tiger at a very young age showing of his skills on tv too. I'm sure it didn't get the same reaction... My friend is extremely hard on his son because he wants to stop skateboarding. The kid was sponsored at age 11, he's 14 now and doesn't like it anymore. He wants to concentrate on 4H but his dad isn't having it. I don't see that as any different. But everyone who sees the kid skate praises him for his radical moves!

Edit: kinda like what jebru said there in the beginning of his post I suppose.


seriously good points. however there is still the fact remains that no child of 4 years old is qualified or gifted enough to preach. golf and music lie within the purview of a child, being a spiritual leader does not. so there is a difference.

is this kid being exploited? i dunno. maybe, if his parents/guardians are making money of him then yes. the same as if Tiger's dad made money off him. there is a reason that if this was a kid playing guitar or hitting a bad ass golf shot it wouldnt bother us and this does. its the same reasons why most of us dont watch Toddlers and Tiaras. its creepy to make kids act like adults and put it on TV.


Good point LMB.
As to Jeb and MF. Did you see anywhere in what I wrote that the kid was being abused? Try again boys.
I think you might also want to look at Tiger Woods personal life as well as a lot of musicians or other tunnel visioned people to see how well they turned out. Money does not equate with being a happy, well rounded person. Perhaps it does for you, I don't know. dontknow
The child is 4. That's something to remember. I wouldn't care if he was saying that he had a cure for cancer my answer would be the same.
There's a difference between having a gift for knowledge, and being influenced to "preach". Some kids thrive on math, science or even learning to play guitars. But putting a suit on him and telling him to "preach it" is a whole different thing.


You know chef, sometimes I'm not sure if you are half joking or your reading comprehension skills are... different than mine. I don't see money mentioned anywhere in my post. And by mentioning Tiger wood's fucked up personal life you kind of prove my point in that pushing a kid to do a sport IS a fair analogy. I was saying that this video is getting under people's skin because it has to do with religion. If the kid was gifted at sports like Tiger was at that age you wouldn't be so quick to call it child abuse but like you said, look how Tiger turned out. Plus I was responding more to what lafayette was saying... Have you been reading the whole thread?

laughing8




AngelHeart01
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 6:17:33 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 4/23/2010
Posts: 3,213
Location: ♥ Southern Style ♥, United States
I thought this was entertaining and hilarious! The kid is just mimicking. It's so obvious. No harm, no foul. The kid doesn't even understand what he is saying .. It's all fun to him. At least that's how I see it.

OMG .. he mentions Mississippi Embarassed
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 6:27:59 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 769,105
Getting to Felix's point, yes, I would think abuse if I saw discomfort in a child in any arena where discomfort, a tinge of agony, or fear is rendered.

Anyone seen "Akeelah and the Bee," or that horrid show on TV about the beauty contest's? Even in those depictions, there are some that truly are comfortable in their surroundings or seem so, and some that show visible signs of regimen that lead to thoughts of abuse. This little man, does not, at least to me. Although I do think such memorization and timing could be used more effectively in another forum. So yes, I would look and feel the lean toward abuse or non-abuse if it were not solely in the context of religion.

Now, not trying to say parents know more or are so much more in tune with what is going on, either here or elsewhere, but when you have a kid, you do pick up on stuff only because you have your own little one, and their friends constantly in your face. Beautiful faces, but sometimes you just cringe at the sound of the "pitter patter." Just saying you pick up on stuff, due to your experiences.

I do not believe abuse is here because I don't see any discomfort or signs of confusion. In that community, he just got the spirit. Although some may argue that African Greys can mimic a lot of nonsense as well, but that don't mean much, it's just the ability to mimic.

As for money, it's all about tythings (i.e. money garnished during a gathering). The one thing that struck me were the two little boys that were somewhat in awe of this little guy. Hopefully, you can see where the money issue does come in especially if you've watched any TBN, or religious network. Sorry, but it's all about money. Or "love gifts" as they like to call them. It helps during tax time. The mother and father of the two boys are giving because of this little "spirit." The abuse to me is more to those "worshipping", for the little preacher, if the question was in the context of manipulation, then I would most profoundly agree with a resonating, "HELL YEAH!"

Again, it's all about experiences.

WellMadeMale
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 7:02:04 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,674
Location: Cakeland, United States
LittleMissBitch wrote:
seriously good points. however there is still the fact remains that no child of 4 years old is qualified or gifted enough to preach. golf and music lie within the purview of a child, being a spiritual leader does not. so there is a difference.


I theorize that all organized ( or disorganized is probably more appropriate a term ) religions are full of brain dead cultists. Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddist, and the Scientologists...yanno basically the big five and the 23002 other cults.

The very fact that a 4 year old child is encouraged to lead his own peers (meaning other children) with evangelizing...pretty much paints my theory in vivid splendor.

If these nutballs want to toss this stupid crap out and show their true colors to the rest of the world...I'm all for that shit, man. It lets me know where to keep my eyes peeled for future troubles.

Christian Zealots, Militant Zionists and Muslim radicals have to come from somewhere...they don't just suddenly wake up one day as a 16 to 56 year old backpack bomber or a race baiting assassin...or do they?

In this particular incidence...I won't pass judgement on the kid nor his parents, until he grows up and decides that the best way to get his message across is to blow an airliner out of the sky or pull a Columbine. And as far as I know, we don't have Minority Report style technology available at present.

Give'em a break. In my world, even kooks are allowed to live their life the way they wish (until they piss on the snow in my front yard).



Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
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