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Does the Catholic Church's insurance cover vasectomies? Options · View
Guest
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 3:46:37 AM

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There has been much debate over whether the Catholic Church's efforts to avoid paying for birth control is a legitimate objection based on religious freedom or simply an assault on the rights of women. I think the question of whether they object to or provide coverage for vasectomies goes a long way towrds asnwering the question. I am honestly asking, too, because I have no idea if they do or not.
littlemissbitch
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 6:41:46 AM

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i do believe they are against it...

littlemissbitch ~ professional face ripper offer, at your service..
secretcharm
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 6:56:03 AM

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Apparently NOT





“Everything in the world is about sex except sex. Sex is about power.”
― Oscar Wilde
Buz
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 7:09:19 AM

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I think they oppose all contraception whatsoever. It is their religious beliefs, they should be free under the US Constitution to adhere to their beliefs whether they are whacked out or not. But freedom and liberty in America is fast on the decline anyhow. For a government to force citizens, corporations, churches, and organizations to spend their money on government dictates is pure unadulterated fascism!


LadyX
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 7:57:54 AM

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I don't think he's kidding. There are many churches out there, including many Christian denominations, that don't exclude vasectomies (or other birth control for that matter) from their benefits.
VanGogh
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 8:03:32 AM

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Well .... upon checking "accepted birth control means by the catholic church" .... this appears. So, I would "presume" that the original posters question on whether the Catholic Church's insurance would cover vasectomies is a fantasy/hope/or ill-informed.

Quote:
The Catholic Church is opposed to artificial contraception and orgasmic acts outside of the context of marital intercourse. This belief dates back to the first centuries of Christianity. Such acts are considered intrinsically disordered because of the belief that all licit sexual acts must be both unitive (express love), and procreative (open to procreation). The only form of birth control permitted is abstinence. Modern scientific methods of "periodic abstinence" such as natural family planning (NFP) were counted as a form of abstinence by Pope Paul VI in his 1968 encyclical Humanae Vitae. The following is the condemnation of contraception:

Quote:
Therefore We base Our words on the first principles of a human and Christian doctrine of marriage when We are obliged once more to declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun and, above all, all direct abortion, even for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as lawful means of regulating the number of children. Equally to be condemned, as the magisterium of the Church has affirmed on many occasions, is direct sterilization, whether of the man or of the woman, whether permanent or temporary. Similarly excluded is any action which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation—whether as an end or as a means.


A number of other documents provide more insight into the Church's position on contraception. The commission appointed to study the question in the years leading up to Humanae Vitae issued two reports, a majority report explaining why the Church could change its teaching on contraception, and a minority report which explains the reasons for upholding the traditional Christian view on contraception. In 1997, the Vatican released a document entitled "Vademecum for Confessors" (2:4) which states "[t]he Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of contraception."

Furthermore, many Church Fathers condemned the use of contraception.

The 1987 document Donum Vitae opposes in-vitro fertilization on grounds that it is harmful to embryos. Later on, the 2008 instruction Dignitas Personae denounces embryonic manipulations and new methods of contraception.

LadyX
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 8:20:39 AM

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Good info- I think he simply did less research than you. I had to look it up too when this all first blew up. All Christian faiths believe in the miracle of life, but vasectomies are a grey area for many.

coffee
VanGogh
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 8:39:54 AM

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LadyX wrote:
Good info- I think he simply did less research than you.


Taking even the approach that any church/religious organization would supplement (by insurance) a type of birth control is a bit of a laugh .... though, maybe there are those (I don't know) ... but under the Major few religious umbrellas, it would not behove such a stance. Their insurance costs would be astronomical.

Consider the AIDS and the catholic church .... to STEM/REDUCE the spread of AIDS the WHO says "use a condom with sex" yet, the catholic church says the only "approved sex control" is abstinence - they do not hand out condoms.



LadyX
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 8:50:40 AM

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PersonalAssistant wrote:


Taking even the approach that any church/religious organization would supplement (by insurance) a type of birth control is a bit of a laugh .... though, maybe there are those (I don't know) ... but under the Major few religious umbrellas, it would not behove such a stance. Their insurance costs would be astronomical.




I'm totally on board with you about the nonsensical Vatican stance on birth control and contraception, and it only looks more inhumane when compared with Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians- all giant denominations with tens of thousands of employees who, are, in fact, given benefits packages that include birth control and all forms of contraception.

It's easy to bang on churches and faith for what they believe and preach; I've unfortunately been guilty of the same at times. But it's to the credit of every Christian sect but Catholics that as employers, they do what's fair and humane by not forcing their tenets on employees who may not share their faith, regardless of what they hold true religiously, or what the cost savings might be to exclude them.
ArtMan
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 8:59:09 AM

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The Catholic Church has clouded the matter of separation of church and state by accepting federal monetary aid. I don't think that the federal government should give any monetary aid to a tax exempt religious organization. Otherwise, I believe that the government has no business telling any church or legally tax exempt religious organization what type of insurance benefits they should be required to cover, especially if it breaks with that religion/churches' beliefs. Many Christian churches (Protestants in particular) have no problem with their insurance covering many birth control measures. Most of all I think that the government making anyone to cover items such as birth control with their insurance is beyond their moral scope as a government. That should be a decision made only by the company and/or their arrangement with their employees and/or their labor union.

I have to say that I personally think that the birth control stance of the catholic church is wrong. But no one is forced to be a Catholic. If one chooses that path that is their decision and the consequences should be their own responsibility.

You are invited to read Passionate Danger, Part II, a story collaboration by Kim and ArtMan.
http://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/passionate-danger-part-ii.aspx

VanGogh
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 7:13:03 PM

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ArtMan wrote:

I have to say that I personally think that the birth control stance of the catholic church is wrong. But no one is forced to be a Catholic. If one chooses that path that is their decision and the consequences should be their own responsibility.


So, my take is that the catholic church insurance is NEVER gonna cover the cost of a vasectomy as it goes against their ordinance.

My suggestion: if you wanna get sniped, leave the church and claim the medical expense against your current or next year's income taxes under medical costs.

Really, better to lower your own income by claiming a medical expense and it should lower your taxable income!

geek

Its a Win/Win situation!!!!

Cheers!!

3601
CharlotteRusse1
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2012 8:47:34 PM

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The ACA does not require any churches to cover contraception with insurance. The dispute is over church-affiliated non-religious organizations like hospitals and schools that both hire and serve non-Catholics. Just like any other non-church, non-synogogue, non-mosque public organization over a certain size, the law will require them *if they provide an insurance plan to their employees* that the insurance plan covers preventative care like checkups and contraception. This inclusion of preventative care doesn't even necessarily make the insurance plan more expensive. A lot of plans consider preventative care a long term cost-saver.

If these organizations don't even want their plan covering contraception, they can just opt out of providing an insurance plan altogether and pay the penalty in-lieu of insurance.

If they want to provide insurance as a benefit, they need to play by the rules everyone else does. It's not a question of religious liberty. They can get out of it by not supplying insurance at all. They just want to supply insurance and not play by the rules.

Face it, it's just the same as giving only their female employees a pay cut if they want to have sex and not reproduce. It's financial punishment for not obeying *their* religious beliefs.

Writer of amateur erotica since 2011..See the latest at:

[url=http://www.lushstories.com/stories/reluctance/the-chaise-lounge.aspx]
Guest
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 8:56:21 AM

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Guest
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 5:40:11 PM

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No, but my only amazement thus far in this thread is that Limbaugh still had a show, and sponsors.
1curiouscat
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 5:58:23 PM

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eviotis wrote:
No, but my only amazement thus far in this thread is that Limbaugh still had a show, and sponsors.


Unfortunately, this intelligent idiot has the most syndicated radio show in the country... I heard (on the radio, here in brazil) that over 600 radio stations all over the US transmit his radio show live... that is huge.





Overwhelming Reality

From Across the Room
MrNudiePants
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 7:45:43 PM

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1curiouscat wrote:


Unfortunately, this intelligent idiot has the most syndicated radio show in the country... I heard (on the radio, here in brazil) that over 600 radio stations all over the US transmit his radio show live... that is huge.



According to that story, Limbaugh claims over 15 million listeners per week.

To put that into perspective:

Quote:
An average of 241.6 million people 12 and older listened to conventional radio stations each week last year, an increase of 2.1 million over 2009 — and up 4.9% vs. 2005, according to an annual study that media and marketing research company Arbitron released Monday.


Link to source.

That's just over six percent. Still huge, but hardly anything to get worked up over.

Sean Hannity (another Conservative talk show host) claims 14 million listeners, but Morning Edition and All Things Considered (both shows produced and aired strictly on National Public Radio stations) claim 13 million listeners each. The thing is, Limbaugh is a one-trick pony. He's found his niche - that one thing that he's really good at. He's got a core audience that doesn't want to take the time to actually form opinions - they would rather have their opinions spoonfed to them by someone that sounds like he knows what he's talking about. As long as Limbaugh can keep banging on that drum, and as long as there are people that would rather have others do their thinking for them, he'll have an audience.

nicola
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 7:46:47 PM

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I could only see Does the Catholic Church's insurance cover...in the title to this thread, prior to clicking.

I was sure the question was going to finish: ...acts of God?

Sorry, I'll get my coat...Embarassed
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 7:47:34 PM

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LOL
VanGogh
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 7:51:47 PM

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nicola wrote:
I could only see Does the Catholic Church's insurance cover...in the title to this thread, prior to clicking.

I was sure the question was going to finish: ...acts of God?

Sorry, I'll get my coat...Embarassed


that deserves post of the week!! nice one Nicola!! (ke)
LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 7:44:50 AM

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Ugh. Yes. And I keep waking up hoping that fat, fascist piece of shit will have had a coronary overnight. But so far, to no avail. :(
VanGogh
Posted: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 7:54:37 AM

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LadyX wrote:
Ugh. Yes. And I keep waking up hoping that fat, fascist piece of shit will have had a coronary overnight. But so far, to no avail. :(


is this where one says .... pray to god a little harder and longer

(or is that sex??)
LadyX
Posted: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 9:18:22 AM

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PersonalAssistant wrote:


is this where one says .... pray to god a little harder and longer

(or is that sex??)


If I were a Christian, it would definitely be both. evil4

As it is though, I can't bring myself to meditate toward somebody's downfall. But if something unfortunate were to happen to that bigoted, small-minded fuck....err.... Rush Limbaugh, I wouldn't exactly lose sleep.
1curiouscat
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:11:28 PM

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LadyX wrote:

As it is though, I can't bring myself to meditate toward somebody's downfall. But if something unfortunate were to happen to that bigoted, small-minded fuck....err.... Rush Limbaugh, I wouldn't exactly lose sleep.


This is exactly the thought I had the other day, I even started a thread over the morality of this "thought" .... I have come to the conclusion that I would not loose any sleep either... I might even think that tomorrow will have a chance to be better then today.



Overwhelming Reality

From Across the Room
VanGogh
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:21:10 PM

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LadyX wrote:

As it is though, I can't bring myself to meditate toward somebody's downfall. But if something unfortunate were to happen to that bigoted, small-minded fuck....err.... Rush Limbaugh, I wouldn't exactly lose sleep.


Senator looks to Ban Rush Limbaugh

Quote:
The chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee said Wednesday that he would "love" to see controversial conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh dropped from the Armed Forces Network.

Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) called Limbaugh's show "offensive" and told CNN he has been "delighted" to see advertisers drop the program in the wake of outrage over Limbaugh calling a Georgetown University law student a "slut" and a "prostitute." Sandra Fluke, the student, had testified for House Democrats in favor of the White House's contraception coverage mandate.


So LadyX .... and others .... Keep Praying!!
ArtMan
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:43:22 PM

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Rush Limbaugh is nothing more than a shock jock. He knows his 14 million audience is very radical and he caters to them. Just as Bill Maher, the polar opposite and just as disgusting has his 14 million radicals. Bill Maher called Sarah Palin a 'cunt' with less media outcry than this "prostitute" name calling thing of that student by Limbaugh. Both Limbaugh and Maher are very disgusting, but both are getting filthy rich stirring up hatred and animosity. I wish both were tossed off the air but when advertisers quit sponsoring them over something they then come right back within weeks and start advertising with them again.

You are invited to read Passionate Danger, Part II, a story collaboration by Kim and ArtMan.
http://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/passionate-danger-part-ii.aspx

MissyLuvsYa
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:29:51 PM

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Limbaugh, that fat pig may have a coronary on the air. He is so full of shit and he makes me want to puke. So does Bill Maher, he brings out the vomit also.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 9:48:39 PM

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Yeah Rush is a dick but as to my original post I knew, of course, that the Catholic Church doesn't condone vasectomies but there insurance doesn't exclude everything they don't condone. Case it point their insurance does cover Viagra which given the advanced age of some who use it obviously contributes to sex without the chance of getting pregnant which is what the church objects to. I was just wondering how selective they are in there stance on this issue since the church is obviously prejudice against women. I was hoping to hear from someone that actually has their insurance.
lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:01:41 AM

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I've seen the argument here and a few other places. But I don't see a comparative arguemnt between Viagra and birth control. A man being able to get it up to have sex with his girlfriend or wife is more than just about sex. It's also about mental health. Men with erectile disfunction would suffer hugely with depression and all sorts of other emotional crap. Not to mention the closeness and bond that he can have with his wife. She would suffer just as much as he would if he lost his ability to perform in the bedroom. Viagra would be more easily compared to the estrogen treatments that a post menopausal woman receives. Which serve the purpose of supplying her body with the hormones that she had prior to menopause.

I understand the kneejerk response to play tit for tat on an issue like this. But it's not helpful. The chain reaction would go on too long. The Catholic has a long standing belief against birth control. It's NOT new. It'd been around longer than any of us. However.. no birthcontrol = no Viagra will lead to another kneejerk response. No Viagra = no estrogen therapy for women who need it. No estrogen therapy = no some other thing.

Many see the Catholic church's stance as a man vs woman issue. I just don't see it that way.

Rush Limbaugh is an idiot. A race baiter and a hate monger. But banning him from the airwaves just because we don't like what he says in unconstitutional. What's next? Maybe we should put all of his conservative DittoHeads into concentration camps.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
beowulf69
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:16:21 AM

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Vasectomies? I don't know about vasectomies but they should cut the peckers off all those priests that raped boys.

My first story for Lush is posted, The Goodbye Fuck.
http://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/the-goodbye-fuck.aspx
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:19:33 AM

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(looks up what a 'ditto-head' is, and tries desperately to suppress the fantasy of all of them being removed from society)
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