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New York City to ban "sugary drinks". Options · View
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:55:05 AM

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Buz wrote:
We are all preaching to the choir! We're all young. trim & HOT!

An interesting point Sprite made about age control. 21 being the minimum drinking age in the USA. It is much younger in most of the rest of the modern world. I think that if we as a nation believe that a person is not responsible enough to buy alcohol until 21, then it should be considered criminal to send anyone 18-20 into a war zone as part of the military. Also they should never be tried as an adult for any crime they commit.


I'd be fine with not sending kids into war until they were 21, if that became a real issue. I think criminality is honestly a bit different, though.

And I wholeheartedly think that a ban for kids to buy gallon-sized drinks and giant candy bars would be appropriate. The whole personal liberty thing is game-off when it comes to our kids.
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:55:41 AM

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Joined: 4/3/2010
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sprite wrote:


What is sad is, the first lady, Ms. Obama, has been criticized for her stance on getting kids to eat healthy and get enough exercise over her. in America, we ridicule people for trying to create a healthy culture. i am tease for being a vegetarian on a regular basis. unless i go into a restaurant that caters to vegetarians, my choices are rather limited. in fact, sometimes it's hard to even find a salad that doesn't have meat in it, and i get tired of having to order special - "yeah, can i have the mandarin salad WITHOUT chicken?" - "Well, yeah, but it'll be an extra dollar for a menu change and we'll have to have Tom hand pick all the chicken out of our pre-made salad mixes. Don't worry, I'll ask him to wash his hands first and not spit in your salad."

and sadly, you can eat cheaper if you eat unhealthy - people out of work or who are poor, traditionally have more weight issues AND have a harder time affording health care and there's more and more of them out there these days. it's a growing epidemic.


Oh my God.. My vegan friend is a PAIN IN THE ASS at restaurants... A huge pain! I can feel the chefs disdain in my food when I have lunch with her. :)





LadyX
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:55:55 AM

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Buz wrote:


The Democrats spew just as much racist hate speech as the Republicans, maybe more. But they are both highly guilty!


True. Just so happens, as it often is, this time it was the righties and their us vs. them xenophobia.
sprite
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:58:39 AM

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Buz wrote:
We are all preaching to the choir! We're all young. trim & HOT!

An interesting point Sprite made about age control. 21 being the minimum drinking age in the USA. It is much younger in most of the rest of the modern world. I think that if we as a nation believe that a person is not responsible enough to buy alcohol until 21, then it should be considered criminal to send anyone 18-20 into a war zone as part of the military. Also they should never be tried as an adult for any crime they commit. We have one fucked up justice system and two-faced way of doing things. Government is out of control. It is up to us to haul the politicians in. Vote out ALL incumbents, especially the members of the the two corrupt parties, the Democrats & the Republicans.

The Democrats spew just as much racist hate speech as the Republicans, maybe more. But they are both highly guilty!


thanks for opening another can of worms there, Buz LOL.

thing is, just being young isn't enough anymore - walk around Wal-mart or Target and take a look at the kids age 6-16 and see if the overweight kids outnumber the ones who look to be trim? they aren't old enough to make choices or know better. they are will suffer because of their parent's choices and if a law like this forces parents to make better choices, even just a little, well, i'm all for it. like it's been said - you can STILL drink soda, just not GIANT cups of it. not really taking away a right so much as trying to make a point?

Live, love, laugh.
sprite
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:02:24 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:


Oh my God.. My vegan friend is a PAIN IN THE ASS at restaurants... A huge pain! I can feel the chefs disdain in my food when I have lunch with her. :)



so go to vegan restaurants with her - think she enjoys being a pain in the ass just cause you want your triple bacon burger fix? ;)

Live, love, laugh.
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:03:19 PM

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Location: California
Dancing_Doll wrote:


At the end of the day you can lead a horse to water, but sometimes that horse wants a gallon of cream soda - not water. happy8


Nice...



laughing8



Buz
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:04:45 PM

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I have a friend who wants to see licensing required in order to have birth children. The evidence around us is kicking my ass when we debate. There are so many bad and lazy parents.

Anarchy! You can all come join General Buz's army and when anarchy comes we'll win control of the planet! All I want is some enormous monuments built for my glory! I've always admired William the Duke of Normandy who conquered England. History calls him William the Conqueror. Now that's a great way to be remembered. I bet all of his crew were lean and mean. haha



Buz
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:05:38 PM

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Dancing_Doll said, "At the end of the day you can lead a horse to water, but sometimes that horse wants a gallon of cream soda - not water."



Excellent!

Best post of the day!

PS. I'm having a salad and water tonight for supper.

Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:05:55 PM

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Joined: 4/3/2010
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Location: California
sprite wrote:


so go to vegan restaurants with her - think she enjoys being a pain in the ass just cause you want your triple bacon burger fix? ;)


We were at salad place! She's so out of control! She paid 11 bucks for like three ounces of steamed broccoli with like a lemon slice on it :(



lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:10:12 PM

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Location: Alabama, United States
Magical_felix wrote:


But all the people you just described like borderline people or anyone that goes to the gym aren't the ones we are getting second hand fat from. It's the borderline slow adults that think Doritos, nacho cheese and purple drink is called lunch. Those are the ones who sloth around for years until needing a triple bypass. That fat bitch probably doesnt have stellar insurance cause they probably don't even go to a doctor on the regular.

I didn't understand the watch argument or the cell thing.

And the 40 oz thing makes me think you don't understand proper debate so I won't touch on that anymore..

I understand why you are up in arms about this LM. But I think if it was an outright banning of soda I'd be more in your side. But this is just a reminder. I doubt this shit will even be seriously enforced. I think it's more to get people to think before they order. If not for their own health but for the people that care about them and have to take care of them when they get too fat to take care of themselves. It's not just themselves that really obese people affect.


I disagree, the borderline people are just regular folk. People that aren't "obese" but maybe have put on a few extra pounds. People who have a spouse and kids and can't seem to "find" the time for a little extra exercise. They may not eat totally healthy or totally unhealthy. Have decent eating habits but not great. You know as people age we tend to bulk up a little. That's who I'm talking about. Give them incentive to workout, maybe they will. Maybe not. I'm not talking about people who eat Doritos and purple drank for lunch. Or the dedicated sloth couch potato that does nothing at all.

My point about watching tv is that it keeps our kids (and adults) from going outside to burn off some calories. Maybe the government should regulate how much time we spend sitting on our asses in a beta trance. It was sarcasm.

I don't understand proper debate? Come on, man. That's a bit snarky.

I'm not up in arms about it, I'm debating calmly. My personal opinion would be in opposition of this proposed ban. Yes, an outright ban would be worse. I also agree it won't be seriously enforced, how could it. The costs alone of creating a government agency to oversee this should be enough to stop the idea. We can get people to think before they order. It won't be easy, but it can happen. Times change. We've come a long way in areas about race and gender and sexual lifestyle. We have a long way yet to go, but no as far as we did 50 years ago.







When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
sprite
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:13:11 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:


We were at salad place! She's so out of control! She paid 11 bucks for like three ounces of steamed broccoli with like a lemon slice on it :(


so, if she'd paid 11 bucks for a steak and potato and a slice of cheese cake, that would have been a better choice? she got what she wanted, she ate healthy, she was satisfied, and she got to eat a meal in good company - well worth 11 bucks in my book.

Live, love, laugh.
LadyX
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:13:33 PM

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lafayettemister wrote:
people who eat Doritos and purple drank for lunch.


Chips and liquid codeine?

Got-damn, that's hard core. Outside of the Three6 Mafia and a gang that used to make it rain in the club where I worked, I'm not sure who falls under that demographic.
lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:15:53 PM

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LadyX wrote:


Chips and liquid codeine?

Got-damn, that's hard core. Outside of the Three6 Mafia and a gang that used to make it rain in the club where I worked, I'm not sure who falls under that demographic.


JaMarcus Russell





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:16:15 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 5,167
Location: California
sprite wrote:


so, if she'd paid 11 bucks for a steak and potato and a slice of cheese cake, that would have been a better choice? she got what she wanted, she ate healthy, she was satisfied, and she got to eat a meal in good company - well worth 11 bucks in my book.


True on all counts.. But should eating healthy be so expensive? It shouldn't be that is idealism, which is nice but naive.. But it's that expensive cause the demand for healthy food is so low cause we can't make good choices.



LadyX
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:16:24 PM

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how soon I forget. LOL
sprite
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:21:38 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:


True on all counts.. But should eating healthy be so expensive? It shouldn't be that is idealism, which is nice but naive.. But it's that expensive cause the demand for healthy food is so low cause we can't make good choices.


don't blame HER - blame the culture which makes it expensive. not her fault that the restaurant didn't decide that charging her $5 was adequate - and if more people ate like her, they probably would charge less. thing is, supply and demand - if more people start eating healthy, healthy choices will be cheaper and less healthy ones will get more expensive - so really, y'all are making ME go broke with your soda and burgers and fries and shit - i'm going to open up a paypal so you can reimburse me. :)

Live, love, laugh.
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:24:36 PM

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lafayettemister wrote:


I disagree, the borderline people are just regular folk. People that aren't "obese" but maybe have put on a few extra pounds. People who have a spouse and kids and can't seem to "find" the time for a little extra exercise. They may not eat totally healthy or totally unhealthy. Have decent eating habits but not great. You know as people age we tend to bulk up a little. That's who I'm talking about. Give them incentive to workout, maybe they will. Maybe not. I'm not talking about people who eat Doritos and purple drank for lunch. Or the dedicated sloth couch potato that does nothing at all.

My point about watching tv is that it keeps our kids (and adults) from going outside to burn off some calories. Maybe the government should regulate how much time we spend sitting on our asses in a beta trance. It was sarcasm.

I don't understand proper debate? Come on, man. That's a bit snarky.

I'm not up in arms about it, I'm debating calmly. My personal opinion would be in opposition of this proposed ban. Yes, an outright ban would be worse. I also agree it won't be seriously enforced, how could it. The costs alone of creating a government agency to oversee this should be enough to stop the idea. We can get people to think before they order. It won't be easy, but it can happen. Times change. We've come a long way in areas about race and gender and sexual lifestyle. We have a long way yet to go, but no as far as we did 50 years ago.



LM... The normal people isn't who the law was made for... The normal people aren't the Burdon. It's the way obese ones that are.. They are the ones that can't make choices. I dont see how tax breaks for people that go to a gym has anything to do with super fat people who need to be told that a troft of soda is too much for one person.

I can be snarky if I want. It's my freedom. Unless you want to ban snarkiness... And by using arguments that are slippery slopes does bring your understanding of debate into question. If you read back it doesn't seem like you understand the difference between a debate fallacy and an argument but that's all beside the point.

I agree with you that hopefully people will learn to think before ordering. But I disagree with you in that they can do it themselves. Anyone can see society is getting fatter every new generation. Time to try something new. And I haven't heard any better ideas than trying to regulate portions. Or at least get people to think twice. I think that's a good thing.



lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:34:07 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:


LM... The normal people isn't who the law was made for... The normal people aren't the Burdon. It's the way obese ones that are.. They are the ones that can't make choices. I dont see how tax breaks for people that go to a gym has anything to do with super fat people who need to be told that a troft of soda is too much for one person.

I can be snarky if I want. It's my freedom. Unless you want to ban snarkiness... And by using arguments that are slippery slopes does bring your understanding of debate into question. If you read back it doesn't seem like you understand the difference between a debate fallacy and an argument but that's all beside the point.

I agree with you that hopefully people will learn to think before ordering. But I disagree with you in that they can do it themselves. Anyone can see society is getting fatter every new generation. Time to try something new. And I haven't heard any better ideas than trying to regulate portions. Or at least get people to think twice. I think that's a good thing.


But if we prevent the "normal" people from becoming the overly obese people, it would be beneficial.

You certainly can be snarky. It's ok if you don't understand the points I made, nothing to be ashamed of. Hey, snarky is fun!

People can do it themselves. Yes, society is getting fatter. But each generation has the same available opportunities and temptations. Older generations had Coke and butter too. But they got off their asses to work it off. People nowadays have far greater access to workout equipment and routines than ever before. Regulating portion control is not the answer. If it ever takes hold, it's a stepping stone to more invasive manuevers.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Buz
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:37:19 PM

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Lack of exercise is the key ingredient here. These people are intaking mass calories but not burning any of them.

1curiouscat
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:55:11 PM

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Posts: 1,144
Location: São Paulo , Brazil
[quote=Dancing_Doll]

Yes, and we all saw what happened with McDonald's Healthy Choice menu /quote]

Funny you mention this. Here it not only sells well, but it grows in options. The newest addition, apple slices instead of fries for happy meals.



Overwhelming Reality

From Across the Room
Magical_felix
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:01:42 PM

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Location: California
lafayettemister wrote:


But if we prevent the "normal" people from becoming the overly obese people, it would be beneficial.

You certainly can be snarky. It's ok if you don't understand the points I made, nothing to be ashamed of. Hey, snarky is fun!

People can do it themselves. Yes, society is getting fatter. But each generation has the same available opportunities and temptations. Older generations had Coke and butter too. But they got off their asses to work it off. People nowadays have far greater access to workout equipment and routines than ever before. Regulating portion control is not the answer. If it ever takes hold, it's a stepping stone to more invasive manuevers.


I understood your point. You said that having normal portions for soda will lead to tele screens in our rooms where big brother can watch us and think police will regulate our thoughts... That's what you said. That portion control will lead to big brother. That what you said. If this was a real debate the mediator would have cut you off before you finsehed your point. Cause proving a point by some perceived chain of events proves nothing. Grab a big gulp and Google debating and slippery slopes. Enlighten yourself.

Your last paragraph... Are you trying to prove my point that people can't regulate themselves cause that's what you're doing.. They had come in butter back then too you say.. We have better excersize equipment now you say... Yet people are fatter... What am I supposed to gather from that paragraph. Doing the same thing over and over again like expecting the ever growing obese sector of the population to slim down on their own is the definition of insanity.

I know you're not dumb so I'll assume you're pulling my leg now and I fell for it!



lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:11:05 PM

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Magical_felix wrote:


I understood your point. You said that having normal portions for soda will lead to tele screens in our rooms where big brother can watch us and think police will regulate our thoughts... That's what you said. That portion control will lead to big brother. That what you said. If this was a real debate the mediator would have cut you off before you finsehed your point. Cause proving a point by some perceived chain of events proves nothing. Grab a big gulp and Google debating and slippery slopes. Enlighten yourself.

Your last paragraph... Are you trying to prove my point that people can't regulate themselves cause that's what you're doing.. They had come in butter back then too you say.. We have better excersize equipment now you say... Yet people are fatter... What am I supposed to gather from that paragraph. Doing the same thing over and over again like expecting the ever growing obese sector of the population to slim down on their own is the definition of insanity.

I know you're not dumb so I'll assume you're pulling my leg now and I fell for it!


Lol, no i didn't say that soda will lead to tele screens in our rooms. I wasn't talking about a chain of continual events. But yes, I'm partly pulling your leg. Do you wax or use an Epilady?

I'm saying people haven't regulated themselves. But they can, the opportunities are there. If we use incentives to get more people to use them it would be more palatable to me. I don't expect them to do it on their own. With a gently nudge from government to push people into the gym. People are fatter because the don't exercise. I don't think portions are that much greater today than they were 30 years ago. People are eating the same amount of calories but aren't working them off. You choose portion control, I'd choose more exercise. Simple enough.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Dancing_Doll
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:17:48 PM

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lafayettemister wrote:

I don't think portions are that much greater today than they were 30 years ago. People are eating the same amount of calories but aren't working them off.


Wrong. Here is a 'then and now' comparison of portions 30 years ago, compared to today.








Buz
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:19:32 PM

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Dancing_Doll wrote:


Wrong. Here is a 'then and now' comparison of portions 30 years ago, compared to today.





First choice - run a 10K

Second choice - run a marathon!!!!!

lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:47:48 PM

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Dancing_Doll wrote:


Wrong. Here is a 'then and now' comparison of portions 30 years ago, compared to today.








That's a little bit misleading. A 12" pizza then and now is still a 12" pizza. How it's sliced may be different.

The soda comparison has an 6.5 oz drink compared to a 20oz drink (and in that pic, the smaller drink has more calories per volume than the big one). I was 10 years old 30 years ago. They had 12oz cans of soda then too. And in restaraunts they served drinks in cups usually. Outside of fast food, the cups are still about the same size. Big gulp style drinks were available 30 years ago.

A BigMac 30 years ago is exactly the same as they are now. A quarterpounder then is the same quarterpounder now. A Whopper was the same back then as it is now. There are burgers that small on today's menus. There were burgers as big as that one on menus 30 years ago.

French fry portions are bigger. Most places give way to much of them.

Popcorn... 30 years ago there was the big super tub option just like today. That pic shows a small size compared to a large size. Both were available then, both are available now.

I vividly remember things 30 years ago. They weren't as different as that picture would lead a person to believe. There was a Wendy's right down the street from my house. I rode my bike to it many times. The single, double, and triple burgers are exactly the same.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Guest
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:48:12 PM

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Posts: 652,869
Ugh, you two (LM and Felix) are getting a bit out of hand. Take a chill pill.

As for the sugary drink ban, I'm all for it. Sorry, Americans are just too fat and stupid. This whole junk food thing is an addiction. We need to educate our kids on nutrition and take away this sedentary lifestyle. As adults, we need to set the example. If I ever had kids, I don't think I would ever allow then to have a drop of soda. There is no point to soda! Just liquid sugar!!

I am truly appalled at the foods that dominate the isles of my local Mexican grocery stores. Sugary and highly processed foods dominate the shelves. It's very cheap and easy "food". It's very unfortunate that Americans have accepted this diet of highly processed food.


Sprite, I totally agree with you. It's fucking expensive and inconvenient as hell to eat vegan/vegetarian. Eating out as a vegan is such a pain in the ass. It can put quite a damper on social outings. It also pisses me off that I spend soo much money on groceries... Oh well. I am all for a fat tax, but this extra money needs to be used to subsidize the cost of healthy foods. Health care costs to obease and overweight people can be a burden to the nation.

I work at a hospital, I have seen so many people come in with heart attacks, gastrointestinal problems, dangerously elevated blood pressure, and problems relating to diabetes. About 95% of these problems could have been prevented with a healthy diet and active lifestyle.
Just the other day my mentor gave a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes to a 10 year old boy!!! Looking at his parents, I'm not surprised!

Ugh... Ok, my rant is over. I'm just glad NY is doing something.
Guest
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:52:39 PM

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LadyX wrote:


I'd be fine with not sending kids into war until they were 21, if that became a real issue. I think criminality is honestly a bit different, though.

And I wholeheartedly think that a ban for kids to buy gallon-sized drinks and giant candy bars would be appropriate. The whole personal liberty thing is game-off when it comes to our kids.


Like!
lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:01:32 PM

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On a side note, people these days eat out way too damn much. When I was a kid we may have eaten fast food once a month. Maybe. A sit down nice restaraunt maybe 2 or 3 times a month. Most of the time someone cooked. My mother and father both cooked. Nearly every day. So whatever the portions were at some eatery it didn't matter. Because it wasn't a mainstay in our diet. We had 2 liter bottles of Coke in my home. Which lasted several days because we drank it sparingly. It was a treat, not to be had with every meal or whenever we were thirsty. We drank water and tea most of the time. Many nights our dinner was, "eat what you can find". So I'd raid the fridge and make a sandwich. Or leftovers. Or a can of soup.

My family today eats out way too much. In the last few months I've made a concerted effort to have us eat at home more regularly. I made a menu for 2 weeks' worth of supper. Went shopping and spent $200 on food for supper and snacks. To feed my family of four I spent about $7-$10 per meal. We had plenty, no one was hungry. We ate many of those meals at the table together. It was a wonderful time. And believe it or not, during those two weeks I lost a couple pounds. Just from shutting down all the fast food and chips and other fatty snacks.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Guest
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:05:47 PM

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Buz wrote:
I have a friend who wants to see licensing required in order to have birth children. The evidence around us is kicking my ass when we debate. There are so many bad and lazy parents.


My fiancé keeps on saying that! Automatic sterilization and then you should apply to have it reversed.

In some ways I agree, but I feel that the selection criteria would be biase towards wealthy anglo Americans...duh!
Guest
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:09:21 PM

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Xicana wrote:


My fiancé keeps on saying that! Automatic sterilization and then you should apply to have it reversed.

In some ways I agree, but I feel that the selection criteria would be biase towards wealthy anglo Americans...duh!


Yikes that sounds scary!
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