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Death Penalty. For or Against. Options · View
MrNudiePants
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:42:25 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
archerintraining wrote:
Definately for. It takes $30,000 a year, minimum, to house one prisoner. That's tax payer's money. I think they should do away with the life sentence, and make anything earning it an automatic death penalty. After all, isn't life in prison the exact same as taking their life anyway? Also, there are some people who just don't deserve to live.


I'm not in favor of this at all. There have been far too many people convicted of crimes based on "eyewitness" testimony that have been exonerated later on by irrefutable scientific evidence like DNA testing. Yes, there are those who don't deserve to live, but if there's the slightest glimmer of a chance that a conviction may be overturned later on, then the person's life should not be forfeit.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:04:28 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
nazhinaz wrote:
I believe the whole discussion is based on viewing death punishment from the angle of delivering jucstice to criminals, murders in this case.


Then you haven't read any of my posts. My defense of Capital Punishment isn't based on subjective concepts like "justice" or "revenge". I've based my arguments entirely on protecting people from psychotic killers.


nazhinaz wrote:
We must proceed firstly from a basic value that all and every human life is invaluable.
Medical sciences try to save every human life, come what may and this is absolutely correct approach.
We need to rectify the wrong and save human life.
So is the basic concept of Justice department.
The justice is not a revenage but a corrective measure to bring back a balanced human social setup.
We must correct the wrong doers, heal them, not become revengful towards them.
A step to correct them may cost thousands or millions, still we should try to correct them and bring them back into the society as normal human beings.
Just as in medical domain, we never bother what the expenses are; we go on to correct them and save lives.
The cost of corrective mesasures may be very high but would be still much lesser than the invaluable human life.
If we do take this approach, I believe we all definitely come to the conclusion that correct the wrong doer and not eliminate him.
NEVER BOTHER ABOUT THE COST OF CORRECTIVE MEASURES.


Why must we assume that EVERY life is valuable? (By "valuable", I assume you mean "every life has a positive value to society".) Why? Statistics and psychological testing show that there are some classes of criminals that just can't be rehabilitated. Pedophiles, rapists, murderers, those who commit violent robberies; they serve their sentences and get released, only to become recidivists and commit more of the same kinds of crimes that originally earned them their prison sentences. They victimize more innocent people until they eventually die. Because when all is said and done, death is the only true equalizer - the only "justice" that no one can escape.

I've known two kinds of killers in my life. The first kind does so because it's part of a higher calling. They've killed to protect the innocent, or to defend a loved one or their homeland. I've been in situations where I could have easily become part of this group. Thinking back, I'm not sure what stayed my hand - fate, luck, or a higher power taking control of my future and preventing me from having to become a killer. Things just sort of worked out to where it wasn't necessary. Of all the members of this group that I know, one thing is universal: membership changes a person. Once you take a human life, you're just not the same person you were before.

The second kind of killer is a different animal altogether.

I believe that there are just a few main things that separate humans from animals. One of those things is the idea that killing a fellow human is flat out wrong. You won't find that credo among any of the higher primates, or lower animals. "Kill or be killed" is hardwired into the genetic code of all of them. But not humans. For us, there seems to be some kind of genetic programming that makes the taking of another life almost unthinkable. For most of us, anyway.

Walking among us are true monsters. They look like humans, they act like humans, and they are actually mistaken for humans - until their true differences show them up. These monsters lack that genetic code that prevents them from killing. They glory in it, they enjoy causing suffering; they believe that we are all sheep, put on the Earth for their amusement, and sustenance. They revel in the chase, the hunt, the kill. Those are the animals that the human race bands together against. We segregate them from the rest of us - for our protection. We punish them in an attempt to make them change their ways - for our protection. And sometimes, though it pains us greatly to do it, we kill them. For our protection. And this is how it should be.
nazhinaz
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 11:59:15 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 295
Location: Longview, United States
MrNudiePants wrote:


Why must we assume that EVERY life is valuable? (By "valuable", I assume you mean "every life has a positive value to society".) Why? Statistics and psychological testing show that there are some classes of criminals that just can't be rehabilitated. Pedophiles, rapists, murderers, those who commit violent robberies; they serve their sentences and get released, only to become recidivists and commit more of the same kinds of crimes that originally earned them their prison sentences. They victimize more innocent people until they eventually die. Because when all is said and done, death is the only true equalizer - the only "justice" that no one can escape.

I've known two kinds of killers in my life. The first kind does so because it's part of a higher calling. They've killed to protect the innocent, or to defend a loved one or their homeland. I've been in situations where I could have easily become part of this group. Thinking back, I'm not sure what stayed my hand - fate, luck, or a higher power taking control of my future and preventing me from having to become a killer. Things just sort of worked out to where it wasn't necessary. Of all the members of this group that I know, one thing is universal: membership changes a person. Once you take a human life, you're just not the same person you were before.

The second kind of killer is a different animal altogether.

I believe that there are just a few main things that separate humans from animals. One of those things is the idea that killing a fellow human is flat out wrong. You won't find that credo among any of the higher primates, or lower animals. "Kill or be killed" is hardwired into the genetic code of all of them. But not humans. For us, there seems to be some kind of genetic programming that makes the taking of another life almost unthinkable. For most of us, anyway.

Walking among us are true monsters. They look like humans, they act like humans, and they are actually mistaken for humans - until their true differences show them up. These monsters lack that genetic code that prevents them from killing. They glory in it, they enjoy causing suffering; they believe that we are all sheep, put on the Earth for their amusement, and sustenance. They revel in the chase, the hunt, the kill. Those are the animals that the human race bands together against. We segregate them from the rest of us - for our protection. We punish them in an attempt to make them change their ways - for our protection. And sometimes, though it pains us greatly to do it, we kill them. For our protection. And this is how it should be.


I believe I tried to post a differnt view point altogether.
My position is that no human life is just irrelevant.
We must try and CURE all sick human beings, as we do in hospitals.
We never consider any human life as animals while taking care of the sick and ailing.
As i strongly believe that ALL CRIMINALS ARE SICK AND AILING AND THE SOCIETY SHOULD TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE SICK PEOPLE.
I would surely desist calling a human being as a differnt animal.
Its a different science that believes that all criminals are tressgressing the socially set collective values of society.
It is a big crime to willfully fornicate in Saudi Arabia.
Will we, here in USA would consider those values as ours?
And will we join Saudis in stoning willfully fornicating couples to death?
Surely, we can't accept these values; because we socially do somehow believe that its their human right to enjoy as they wish.
And we also believe that those crossing the road while the lights are red are sick and need workshops to learn social norms.
So we should develop courses to psychologically treat all sick human beings.
We should LOVE human life, not call them another animals and monsters.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:19:19 PM

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Joined: 8/10/2009
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nazhinaz wrote:
I believe I tried to post a differnt view point altogether.
My position is that no human life is just irrelevant.
We must try and CURE all sick human beings, as we do in hospitals.
We never consider any human life as animals while taking care of the sick and ailing.
As i strongly believe that ALL CRIMINALS ARE SICK AND AILING AND THE SOCIETY SHOULD TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE SICK PEOPLE.
I would surely desist calling a human being as a differnt animal.
Its a different science that believes that all criminals are tressgressing the socially set collective values of society.
It is a big crime to willfully fornicate in Saudi Arabia.
Will we, here in USA would consider those values as ours?
And will we join Saudis in stoning willfully fornicating couples to death?
Surely, we can't accept these values; because we socially do somehow believe that its their human right to enjoy as they wish.
And we also believe that those crossing the road while the lights are red are sick and need workshops to learn social norms.
So we should develop courses to psychologically treat all sick human beings.
We should LOVE human life, not call them another animals and monsters.


I know you have a different point of view, and that's okay. I just disagree. First, I don't know of any jurisdiction in America that mandates group therapy for jaywalking. Second, we're not talking about the way things are in Saudi Arabia. We're talking about the way things are here. I may be misinformed, but I don't think Capital Punishment has ever been up for debate there. It's an accepted form of punishment that's used for "crimes" that aren't even against the law here, as you noted. But that's a discussion for another thread.

If you choose to believe that criminals are merely sick and can be cured, then that's all fine and dandy. Work toward finding a cure. Personally, I wish such a cure did exist. There isn't one now, and I don't believe that there ever will be, but I won't be the one to forbid the search. For the foreseeable future, though, you can't cure this "sickness". The most you can do is treat it with drugs that mask the symptoms, and render the patients more docile. If you ever stop the drug therapy, the "sickness" comes right back, with a vengeance. It's wrong to willingly put innocent people at risk. This is what happens in our prison system, when incorrigible prisoners are housed for extended periods. If you rely on drugs to keep those incorrigible prisoners from doing harm to other prisoners or prison staff, then you're fooling yourself. Eventually, the day will come when the prisoner starts to tolerate the drugs too well, and they lose their effectiveness. Or he'll decide to cheek his medication and not take it at all. It's just a matter of time before he kills again. When he does, who gets the blame? The "sickness"? The ineffective medicine? The doctor? Or the system that failed to put the criminal in the only place where he can do no further harm - a grave?
nazhinaz
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2012 4:59:52 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 295
Location: Longview, United States
MrNudiePants wrote:


I know you have a different point of view, and that's okay. I just disagree. First, I don't know of any jurisdiction in America that mandates group therapy for jaywalking. Second, we're not talking about the way things are in Saudi Arabia. We're talking about the way things are here. I may be misinformed, but I don't think Capital Punishment has ever been up for debate there. It's an accepted form of punishment that's used for "crimes" that aren't even against the law here, as you noted. But that's a discussion for another thread.

If you choose to believe that criminals are merely sick and can be cured, then that's all fine and dandy. Work toward finding a cure. Personally, I wish such a cure did exist. There isn't one now, and I don't believe that there ever will be, but I won't be the one to forbid the search. For the foreseeable future, though, you can't cure this "sickness". The most you can do is treat it with drugs that mask the symptoms, and render the patients more docile. If you ever stop the drug therapy, the "sickness" comes right back, with a vengeance. It's wrong to willingly put innocent people at risk. This is what happens in our prison system, when incorrigible prisoners are housed for extended periods. If you rely on drugs to keep those incorrigible prisoners from doing harm to other prisoners or prison staff, then you're fooling yourself. Eventually, the day will come when the prisoner starts to tolerate the drugs too well, and they lose their effectiveness. Or he'll decide to cheek his medication and not take it at all. It's just a matter of time before he kills again. When he does, who gets the blame? The "sickness"? The ineffective medicine? The doctor? Or the system that failed to put the criminal in the only place where he can do no further harm - a grave?


Maybe I need to submit there already exists a science known as CRIMINOLOGY and PSYCHOLOGY to treat mentally sick people who perpetuate cimes against society.
LadyX
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2012 1:35:55 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart
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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
MrNudiePants wrote:


I'm not in favor of this at all. There have been far too many people convicted of crimes based on "eyewitness" testimony that have been exonerated later on by irrefutable scientific evidence like DNA testing. Yes, there are those who don't deserve to live, but if there's the slightest glimmer of a chance that a conviction may be overturned later on, then the person's life should not be forfeit.


You're totally missing the point, Nudes. As long as they're depicted, from perp-walk to conviction, as guilty, and as long as Nancy Grace says they're guilty, then it doesn't matter whether they really are. Insert rhetoric here about too many appeals, let'em fry, we coddle them on death row, blah blah. I say fry everybody, then use a firing squad on their charred bodies and hang what's left from a noose. I think that will be Wyatt Earp-y enough for everyone's taste. We can put it on TV and cheer from home.

New episode! Right after "Ow, My Balls!".
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2012 2:15:42 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
nazhinaz wrote:

Maybe I need to submit there already exists a science known as CRIMINOLOGY and PSYCHOLOGY to treat mentally sick people who perpetuate cimes against society.


What's your stance on 51 yr old men who regularly prey upon 18 and 19 year old women on internet social sites? Is there any sort of psychology testing protocol which should be installed for this behavior? How do we 'as a society' identify the proclivities as well as the individuals, or is that something which we don't need to decide, since everyone is above the legal age of majority?

It's not illegal, it's just fucking creepy. Toss criminology out the window, but hey...let's get us some online psychology ratcheted up.



Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
LadyX
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2012 9:56:48 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart
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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,804
I endorse this way of thinking.
Is not each woman able to recognize the lecherous amongst us?
Or turn a blind eye and let the next girl deal with attention from middle aged dudes?
Are we not a society in which lonely men can surf aff, fuckbook, and yes lush for nubile picks to rub one out to?
Some may say, a thirty year age difference is too much, but what would this person say to Woody Allen and his one time teen girlfriend?
Okay bad example. But shall we be like the Saudis and stone him for his impropriety?
Okay another bad example. Saudis love to dip young, surely.
We must show understanding toward one another. Is not social evolution driving us to a place where even the creepiest of kinks is acceptable?
Perhaps I am the lone voice, and have said too much already.
Peace.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2012 10:00:36 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
LadyX wrote:

Perhaps I am the lone voice, and have said too much already.


Actually, you reminded me to TIVO Ow, My Balls Ep 4 Season 1

Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
nazhinaz
Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 5:22:10 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 295
Location: Longview, United States
WellMadeMale wrote:


What's your stance on 51 yr old men who regularly prey upon 18 and 19 year old women on internet social sites? Is there any sort of psychology testing protocol which should be installed for this behavior? How do we 'as a society' identify the proclivities as well as the individuals, or is that something which we don't need to decide, since everyone is above the legal age of majority?

It's not illegal, it's just fucking creepy. Toss criminology out the window, but hey...let's get us some online psychology ratcheted up.



Maybe you consider a 51 years oldie as a dead man; but I do not subscribe to the idea.
A 51 years old has as much right to enjoy sex and sexual sites as a man of 20, 30 or 40.
And this may appear creepy to prey upon 18 or 19; but surely it is safe and as much healthy as that of a man of 20.
As long as the man of 51 is not hurting anyone, not even anyone's feelings, he doesn't need a help from a psychiatrist.
Socially it is not proclivites nor a crime.
Should we not debate over the death penalty and not the age of those who are visitng sexual and social internet sites?
After all the thread is "Death penalty. For or Against".
MrNudiePants
Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 8:27:34 AM

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LadyX wrote:


New episode! Right after "Ow, My Balls!".


Hey! I love "Ow, my balls!" Has the new season started already?
MrNudiePants
Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 8:31:27 AM

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Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
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nazhinaz wrote:


Maybe I need to submit there already exists a science known as CRIMINOLOGY and PSYCHOLOGY to treat mentally sick people who perpetuate cimes against society.


And again... We don't know how to cute people that have the kinds of sicknesses that let them commit those types of crimes. The most we can do is treat the symptoms and warehouse the patients, hoping that they don't kill any of their fellow inmates. When you develop the cure, feel free to let me know.
nazhinaz
Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 10:04:49 AM

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Joined: 1/16/2010
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MrNudiePants wrote:


And again... We don't know how to cute people that have the kinds of sicknesses that let them commit those types of crimes. The most we can do is treat the symptoms and warehouse the patients, hoping that they don't kill any of their fellow inmates. When you develop the cure, feel free to let me know.


Can i ask if a layman should doubt the validity of Higgs Particle, proven by a very recent experientation by over 7,000 scientists and over $ 4 billions expences?
At least I would not dare to challenge it.
So are the sciences of Psychology and Criminology.
I am not an expert in these fields and would not pass a verict upon these sciences and their claims.
I would go with what the experts of psychology and Criminology say.
As a layman in these sciences, I accept their claims.
And the experts in these sciences do claim that the criminals are sick and are curable with the help of these sciences.
I am not a Surgeon and would not perform the surgery to remove a defective gall bladder.
I would let the surgeon do that surgery.
So let us give the psychologists and criminologists do their job and stand by their domain of sciences.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 1:58:21 PM

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Joined: 8/10/2009
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nazhinaz wrote:


Can i ask if a layman should doubt the validity of Higgs Particle, proven by a very recent experientation by over 7,000 scientists and over $ 4 billions expences?
At least I would not dare to challenge it.
So are the sciences of Psychology and Criminology.
I am not an expert in these fields and would not pass a verict upon these sciences and their claims.
I would go with what the experts of psychology and Criminology say.
As a layman in these sciences, I accept their claims.
And the experts in these sciences do claim that the criminals are sick and are curable with the help of these sciences.
I am not a Surgeon and would not perform the surgery to remove a defective gall bladder.
I would let the surgeon do that surgery.
So let us give the psychologists and criminologists do their job and stand by their domain of sciences.


Welp... In my past, I have had a smattering of training in both psycology and criminology, though most would hardly consider me an "expert". If you can show me any studies or experiments that show conclusively that violent repeat offenders can be "cured", 100% "cured", I'll rethink my position. Until you can show me proof that what you're saying is true, I'll just keep on believing what know to be true.
nazhinaz
Posted: Thursday, August 2, 2012 9:28:44 AM

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MrNudiePants wrote:


Welp... In my past, I have had a smattering of training in both psycology and criminology, though most would hardly consider me an "expert". If you can show me any studies or experiments that show conclusively that violent repeat offenders can be "cured", 100% "cured", I'll rethink my position. Until you can show me proof that what you're saying is true, I'll just keep on believing what know to be true.


What is considered 100% cured?
Are we all honest, law abiding, never crossed a red light in any field of life?
No, we all as human beings; are liable to commit mistakes and do cross red lights soemhow somewhere.
So should we not consider "criminals" as human beings who crossed red lights sometime, maybe much too much.
But if psychology and criminology can help bring us back to normal being; why can't they help criminals to be human beings like we are?
Just to remind; when we do cross red lights, we are supposed to undertake short psychological courses which teach us why we should not cross red lights at traffic signals.
Do I need to post the names of books of psychology and criminology which describe how to treat and cure criminals?
if someone needs help; go search at google.
Help yourself.
WellMadeMale
Posted: Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:43:14 PM

Rank: Constant Gardener

Joined: 9/30/2009
Posts: 10,754
Location: Cakeland, United States
nazhinaz wrote:
Help yourself.


I'd offer to hand you a manually operated shovel since you:

A. regularly sling so much shit, and...

B. simultaneously dig holes so deep you can't get out of them...


This will help you to continue achieving both @ your normal accelerated pace.


Obscenity is the last refuge of an inarticulate motherfucker.
MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, August 2, 2012 3:42:13 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
nazhinaz wrote:


What is considered 100% cured?
Are we all honest, law abiding, never crossed a red light in any field of life?
No, we all as human beings; are liable to commit mistakes and do cross red lights soemhow somewhere.
So should we not consider "criminals" as human beings who crossed red lights sometime, maybe much too much.
But if psychology and criminology can help bring us back to normal being; why can't they help criminals to be human beings like we are?
Just to remind; when we do cross red lights, we are supposed to undertake short psychological courses which teach us why we should not cross red lights at traffic signals.
Do I need to post the names of books of psychology and criminology which describe how to treat and cure criminals?
if someone needs help; go search at google.
Help yourself.


My god! I'm on the road. I'll be back.
nazhinaz
Posted: Friday, August 3, 2012 2:57:42 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 295
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MrNudiePants wrote:


My god! I'm on the road. I'll be back.

Wishing you a safe driving on the road.
Please don't bump into someone's car or you might get acess to a shortcut about how to cure an offender.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 12:36:17 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 779,318
absolutley for. if we would do what china does and start executing these scum and then bill their families for the bullet .that would be deterrent enough. also it would not cost us an arm and a leg to house and feed them ofr the rest of lives.
1ball
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 12:51:59 PM

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Posts: 970
Location: United States
I'm for it. Nobody gets a better shot at justice than the guy who sits on death row. All the 'i's are dotted (and the 'j's) and the 't's are crossed before the plungers plunge. It's the guy who gets life without parole who's got a better chance of being the victim of a miscarriage of justice. Of course, it costs the bleeding hearts a shitpotful of money to attempt to defend a death penalty case, but that's just that much less money for them to make other trouble with. ;)


My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
MrNudiePants
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 9:06:24 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
nazhinaz wrote:


What is considered 100% cured?
Are we all honest, law abiding, never crossed a red light in any field of life?
No, we all as human beings; are liable to commit mistakes and do cross red lights soemhow somewhere.
So should we not consider "criminals" as human beings who crossed red lights sometime, maybe much too much.
But if psychology and criminology can help bring us back to normal being; why can't they help criminals to be human beings like we are?
Just to remind; when we do cross red lights, we are supposed to undertake short psychological courses which teach us why we should not cross red lights at traffic signals.
Do I need to post the names of books of psychology and criminology which describe how to treat and cure criminals?
if someone needs help; go search at google.
Help yourself.


I was gonna let this one go, but dammit; it just kept calling me back...

First of all - how the hell do you equate murder and rape with running a red light? Do you think life is so valueless that to take one is akin to committing a traffic infraction? I value life more than that. A threat to one's life must be dealt with. In another thread, you made reference to the "collective responsibility" we have for each others' welfare. If we do indeed have a "collective responsibility" to each other, wouldn't we be shirking in our duties if we refused to deal with the general threat a psychopath posed to the general public?

Second - I want you to find just one jurisdiction where running a red light gets you mandatory psychological counseling. Just one. You've said it twice now, and according to your profile you live here, so prove it. Back up your words. Find me any court in the country that routinely sentences people to "undertake short psychological courses " in order to "teach us why we should not cross red lights at traffic signals." I won't be holding my breath.

Third... Jesus. You insist that hardcore criminals like repeat murderers and repeat rapists can be "cured", but when I ask you to back up your words on that one, you just suggest that I go google it. I suppose I would, if I gave a rats ass about trying to prove your point for you, but the reality is, I don't. You're wrong. Recidivist criminals can't be "cured". All we can do is treat the symptoms. And all too often, those treatments are inneffective, or temporary, allowing the criminal to ply his lethal trade at will.
sprite
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 9:16:03 PM

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no death penalty. rapists and pedophiles should simply be tortured with the knowledge that it will happen every day for the rest of their very long lives.



Love not hate.
Dudealicious
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 9:43:49 PM

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sprite wrote:
no death penalty. rapists and pedophiles should simply be tortured with the knowledge that it will happen every day for the rest of their very long lives.


Rach, in Canadian jails rapists and pedophiles are the bottom of the barrel. Most of them have the worst punishments given to them by the inmates. In their eyes a person could not stoop to a lower level, and are delt with accordingly. Funny enough most guards know it, and may possibly let it happen.confused5

The night that changed my life, a four part series of a married man lusting after his co-worker

nazhinaz
Posted: Thursday, August 9, 2012 12:19:22 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 295
Location: Longview, United States
MrNudiePants wrote:


I was gonna let this one go, but dammit; it just kept calling me back...

First of all - how the hell do you equate murder and rape with running a red light? Do you think life is so valueless that to take one is akin to committing a traffic infraction? I value life more than that. A threat to one's life must be dealt with. In another thread, you made reference to the "collective responsibility" we have for each others' welfare. If we do indeed have a "collective responsibility" to each other, wouldn't we be shirking in our duties if we refused to deal with the general threat a psychopath posed to the general public?

Second - I want you to find just one jurisdiction where running a red light gets you mandatory psychological counseling. Just one. You've said it twice now, and according to your profile you live here, so prove it. Back up your words. Find me any court in the country that routinely sentences people to "undertake short psychological courses " in order to "teach us why we should not cross red lights at traffic signals." I won't be holding my breath.

Third... Jesus. You insist that hardcore criminals like repeat murderers and repeat rapists can be "cured", but when I ask you to back up your words on that one, you just suggest that I go google it. I suppose I would, if I gave a rats ass about trying to prove your point for you, but the reality is, I don't. You're wrong. Recidivist criminals can't be "cured". All we can do is treat the symptoms. And all too often, those treatments are inneffective, or temporary, allowing the criminal to ply his lethal trade at will.


When we violate red light signal, we are endangering life of others that can and does at times end into taking life of an innocennt.
All violations of rule of business and laws are based on the concept to protect life; the offender as much as the victims.
And how else do we help traffic light violators; just by offering them short courses designed to enhance their awareness and to help them not to violate the traffic laws. We, by offering such courses are helping the violators not to repeat.
Criminology and psychology has helped develop such courses.
Such courses can and are developed for hardened criminals too.
And such courses are developed or can be developed to save the offenders as well as the victims, of most henious crimes like murder, rape etc.
I know for sure, such courses do exist for rape victims; psychology did help there.
The basic concept is to prevent repeatition of crimes; as this is a social responsibility of a society organized into a State.
State takes cognizance of crimes as they are committed against society.
And unless we cure the criminals as well as eradicate the root cause of such crimes, we can't either eradicate or even lessen the crime rates.
IT IS THEREFORE THAT STATE/SOCIETY DOES AND MUST TAKE A COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY TO CURE CRIMINALS AS WELL AS THE VICTIMS.
I am sorry that I had to dwell on the basic concepts of a scoeity, state and collective responsibility, which we all pretty well know and have read about much earlier in life.
Milik_the_Red
Posted: Thursday, August 9, 2012 1:43:08 AM

Rank: Internet Philosopher
Moderator

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 5,880
Location: The Citadel of my mind , United States
Dudealicious wrote:


Rach, in Canadian jails rapists and pedophiles are the bottom of the barrel. Most of them have the worst punishments given to them by the inmates. In their eyes a person could not stoop to a lower level, and are delt with accordingly. Funny enough most guards know it, and may possibly let it happen.confused5

This holds true in US prisons as well. They are bottom feeders a d treated as such...


Surely silence can sometimes be the most eloquent of replies
- Unknown
MrNudiePants
Posted: Thursday, August 9, 2012 9:48:32 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
nazhinaz wrote:


When we violate red light signal, we are endangering life of others that can and does at times end into taking life of an innocennt.
All violations of rule of business and laws are based on the concept to protect life; the offender as much as the victims.
And how else do we help traffic light violators; just by offering them short courses designed to enhance their awareness and to help them not to violate the traffic laws. We, by offering such courses are helping the violators not to repeat.
Criminology and psychology has helped develop such courses.
Such courses can and are developed for hardened criminals too.
And such courses are developed or can be developed to save the offenders as well as the victims, of most henious crimes like murder, rape etc.
I know for sure, such courses do exist for rape victims; psychology did help there.
The basic concept is to prevent repeatition of crimes; as this is a social responsibility of a society organized into a State.
State takes cognizance of crimes as they are committed against society.
And unless we cure the criminals as well as eradicate the root cause of such crimes, we can't either eradicate or even lessen the crime rates.
IT IS THEREFORE THAT STATE/SOCIETY DOES AND MUST TAKE A COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY TO CURE CRIMINALS AS WELL AS THE VICTIMS.
I am sorry that I had to dwell on the basic concepts of a scoeity, state and collective responsibility, which we all pretty well know and have read about much earlier in life.


I'm still waiting for you to show me one place that requires psychological counseling for people who run red lights. In my experience, all that happens is that the offender gets a ticket. And I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that what you've posted about hardcore criminals being able to be "cured" is true. But I'm still not holding my breath.
nazhinaz
Posted: Thursday, August 9, 2012 11:09:54 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 295
Location: Longview, United States
MrNudiePants wrote:


I'm still waiting for you to show me one place that requires psychological counseling for people who run red lights. In my experience, all that happens is that the offender gets a ticket. And I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that what you've posted about hardcore criminals being able to be "cured" is true. But I'm still not holding my breath.


Are we not giving short courses instead of a ticket?
These may be based on self learning; but they are short courses for driving better.
If I still can't communicate, I feel I am at a complete loss to effectively communicate at least for present.
Dani
Posted: Thursday, August 9, 2012 11:17:48 PM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch
Moderator

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 7,178
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
All for it.

Fuck this unicorns and rainbows bullshit. You mean to tell me a guy who plans for months on end to go into a movie theater and shoot and take innocent lives deserves to live?!?! I think not. I wish more states implemented it, actually. Let the punishment fit the crime. And eye for an eye, I say. To hell with reform. When you intentionally take a life, being of sound mind and body, you deserve the ultimate penalty.



Guest
Posted: Friday, August 10, 2012 12:58:04 AM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 779,318
Death penalty never avoid a single crime, cause all criminals think that they will never be catched. A civilized nation should use better penalties then that. The prize in case of a false judgment is to high. We should never let us overwhelm by brutal crimes, the society and the law should not judge emotional. Dangerous criminals should stay locked away till they die.
amy221
Posted: Friday, August 10, 2012 1:00:34 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 8/5/2012
Posts: 748
Location: Canada
I'm for the death penalty, limited appeals, quick justice, and public executions. Public executions on pay per view, might even turn a profit. Public executions would be a deterrent. No gang banger of tough guy wants to go out being seen vacating his bodily fluids.
Whats wrong with the concept of retribution? When did punishing the guilty become a crime? Yes juries are imperfect, but with the increasing influence of high tech evidence and video footage mistakes will become much less common.

Even in this politically correct world there are evil people who deserve death. There would need to be a massive discussion of what crimes warrant the death penalty. Clearly rape and murder of multiple children does, jaywalking, no. But I believe society should and could find a proper point at which to set that bar.

just my 2cents worth, opps, must make that a nickels worth, Canada stopped making pennies.

love, amy
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