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Getting "Negative" Numbers

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Gingerbread Lover
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The important stuff is in bold, so you can skip the waffling. This is the Number version of "Getting Negative Comments", as I wasn't sure where else it should go.

This is NOT a call for wanting to re-do the voting system. It's here, deal with it. It is, however, about how we deal with what we feel are negative scores (in that they are lower than what either we, or the other readers of our work, agree reflect the true nature of the piece in question). Or even, how we deal with people bringing down our score so it reflects badly, on purpose.

Recently, I wrote a piece that was scoring very highly amongst those who read it, for which I am grateful. But one person did leave me a 3, but no comment. A friend of mine left comment and also spoke with me privately about what they felt was wrong with the piece, whilst being aware of how my other friends might feel about it. Another reader also expressed what they found difficult in the piece. Whilst I found it upsetting at first (I'm highly emotional, I'm a girl), I also knew they had a point even before I posted it. Indeed, I nearly didn;t, for fear people wouldn't like it.

I left this comment on the piece, after a lovely, lovely person what I proper love wanted to know if the scorer could be "called out" for marking it what I would term "average".


"You know, it's okay to be given a 3. They may have struggled with the length, not enough sex, too much sex, they may not like my style, they may think I can't spell, or they may just find me annoying.

But if people think improvement can be gained, but can't be bothered to explain it, then I need not worry over their simply not liking it. It just says to me that they are either unable to offer skill in helping me better myself, or they cannot be bothered. In either of those two cases, their score is meaningless to me."


I said other stuff too, but it's irrelevant here.

I have a theory. It's very simple. When a story is verified, the scale on which it can register is re-set. A 1, therefore, is not "illegible". If it was, it would not have passed and been posted! Therefore, receiving a 1 means to me that I have a very, very long way to go in becoming a better writer. On the flip side, a 5 means to me that the reader became lost positively in my writing, and/or cannot see any way in which I could improve the piece. A 3 would make my piece average. I know we score differently, but that is how I see the scale.

So what I would like to know is this: when you recieve a score lower than your piece is worth, in both or simply your own opinion, and/or that of your readers, how do you deal with it? Does it make you question your own value as a writer (as it does me), and have you scanning and fretting over how you can improve? Do you ignore it, as you are confident in your own evaluation of your work and/or that of other readers/friends? Do you even care?

Do the scores on the piece even matter to you, or is it just the fact that at least one person liked it?

Again, this is not about the style of the voting system, this is how we deal with the use of that system.

Thank you so much for the hoped-for replies.
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Sophisticate
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Quote by ArtMan
I have no doubt that we have amongst us one, two, possibly three degenerate trolls who get a thrill out of low scoring work that is much superior to anything that their small mind could contrive.



I just wrote in the Rage Cage about this. I accept that everyone does not have the same taste or reaction to various stories. I think that if you leave a low score because there is something you see that can be improved, you should communicate that to the writer. Perhaps constructive criticism would be helpful for their next story. If it is just not to your taste, leave it alone. If it is, as ArtMan describes above, from a negative place of envy, spite, or just ignorance, stop it. It is not nice, not fair, and clearly indicative of your own inadequacies.
Clumeleon
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Honestly? I get pissed off! It doesn't last long but that is certainly my initial reaction.

One of my lowest scoring prose pieces is the one that has a ribbon attached. I know that's a good piece and clearly one or more Story Verifiers thought so at the time, too. Based on the general pattern of voting on this site, I cannot understand why it doesn't get straight 5s. I sound like a big-headed tool right now but fuck it, that's a bloody good story.

After a while, I let the anger induced by a 3 pass into melancholy reflection. Maybe that person is the only one who really knows what they're talking about and this story really is "Average". Maybe I'm not a decent writer like some would have me believe and maybe I just shouldn't bother writing anymore.

Then I get a grip. In the grand scheme of things, what the hell does it matter if my stories don't have the highest ratings or the most views? If I know a couple of people genuinely liked it then that should be enough for me. I write because I like to write and because I like to see how well I can do it. I know if I've written something good and if I've written something average. I see a lot of stories on this site that reassure me that I'm not a bad writer.

Interestingly, I found myself getting rather annoyed at the high scores one of my stories was receiving. From the moment I finished and submitted it, I was unhappy with it and said as much to some of my friends. I want to rewrite it because, in my view, it's sub-par. You can imagine my frustration when it starts racking up 5s. Firstly, it made me doubt my own judgement. Secondly, it made me lose a little bit of faith in the whole scoring system. My thoughts were, "This crap is scoring better than my EP?" So there are two sides of the coin, I guess.
Lurker
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Sadly, people do it.

When you allow people to vote and comment, that is just what they do! (for good or bad) It doesn't matter if you are a movie director, rock star or a simple writer on an erotic website. When you put yourself in the public forum, that's just what you get, the opinions of the public (and anonymous voting is just another way of expressing an opinion)

I know (and have responded to it in a similar thread, previously) that I've received low votes and the occasional negative comment... It's the nature of the beast. I think the important thing is to not take it personally, especially if it's something I can learn and better my writing from.

I've read your story (well, you know I verified it) but I haven't voted or commented on it, although I have to say that it was a well-written, descriptive piece and I would most likely have given it at the very least a four, but more likely, a 5.

However, that doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way... A three is not a bad vote. A one or a two is a bad vote, but a three would be a 'pass' in my book and I have had my share of threes.

My worry is that calling people out on their votes (which of course are anonymous) will merely serve to discourage people from voting at all. Better perhaps to just let it go, disable voting on your stories or use the feature where people have to leave if a comment if they wish to vote - again though, I feel that will only stop people from voting. Not everyone has something to say, they either like one's work or they do not...

As a matter of interest, if I felt that a piece merited a 3 or less, I would be more likely to send the author a private message, telling them what I thought and why, giving them the option to take what I had said on board, or not, but not 'wasting' their comments section with negativity. I have received and acted acted upon such comments myself and appreciated them very much...

It's certainly not worth getting annoyed about, well, I don't think so... It is just the internet after all...
Clumeleon
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Quote by Mazza
As a matter of interest, if I felt that a piece merited a 3 or less, I would be more likely to send the author a private message, telling them what I thought and why, giving them the option to take what I had said on board, or not, but not 'wasting' their comments section with negativity. I have received and acted acted upon such comments myself and appreciated them very much...


Really? Where's the fun in that? I always leave my comments, good or bad, out in the open (I've left a negative comment on one of your stories, Maz). If the author wants to chase me up about it (although I'm usually quite thorough) then that's up to them and I am happy to give in-depth feedback if they ask for it. Some (most) authors here don't want that kind of help.

I'm never just mean but I can be brutally honest. Like you say, it's a public forum and if people didn't want my opinion then they shouldn't have bloody well asked for it. (I'm beginning to wonder if some of my 3s are revenge votes...)
Sophisticate
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I have to say that Mazza and Clum have put it well and I agree with what they said above. Like Clum I have had a few moments of being angry or self-doubt with a low score being given, but it the end, I write for myself, to express myself and to please no one else in particular. If readers relate to what I (and my collaborator with respect to stories) have written, that is positive. If some do not, it will not stop me from writing if I wish to or cause me to think less of myself or my ability.

Thank you both, Mazza and Clum, for putting this in proper perspective.
Wild at Heart
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Quote by Shylass


Things being said by shylass.



This is simple. Just put more fucking in it.



Seriously though, the longer you are on lush the more times you will receive scores you feel are inaccurate. The more people start to notice you I mean.

Look at it this way. 99% of stories that have perfect 5's have like 7-11 votes or so. Most stories that have 50 or more votes, especially if you are an author readers and other authors are aware of, will have fours and 3's in there. Now this story with 50 votes could have a score of like 4.79 or something like that, because of two 3's and a few fours but the rest are 5's.

So, that said.

One story has a perfect 5 score with 11 total votes, 11 perfect 5's it received.

Another story has a crappier 4.79 score but with 40 perfect 5's given to it.

What, in your estimation, was the most successful story? The one that got 11 5's or the one that got 40 5's even though the score is lower?
Moderator
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Quote by Shylass
Do the scores on the piece even matter to you, or is it just the fact that at least one person liked it?


I know that no matter how many hours I put into a story, there's always going to be someone who doesn't like it. I pay a lot of attention to spelling and grammar, but my storylines and characters aren't going to appeal to everybody. I've been told before that my writing is too girly and fluffy, but I prefer that readers are honest. If they think my story's only worth a three I'd rather they score it with a three. I'd also prefer that any constructive criticism is left in my comments section so other people might benefit from it. I'm an amateur writer and I'm learning all the time. I can't grow if all I receive is glowing praise.
Gingerbread Lover
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Quote by Magical_felix


This is simple. Just put more fucking in it.



Seriously though, the longer you are on lush the more times you will receive scores you feel are inaccurate. The more people start to notice you I mean.

Look at it this way. 99% of stories that have perfect 5's have like 7-11 votes or so. Most stories that have 50 or more votes, especially if you are an author readers and other authors are aware of, will have fours and 3's in there. Now this story with 50 votes could have a score of like 4.79 or something like that, because of two 3's and a few fours but the rest are 5's.

So, that said.

One story has a perfect 5 score with 11 total votes, 11 perfect 5's it received.

Another story has a crappier 4.79 score but with 40 perfect 5's given to it.

What, in your estimation, was the most successful story? The one that got 11 5's or the one that got 40 5's even though the score is lower?


I remember being really excited by my first 1. And that was the story that was fucking from start to almost finish! Ha ha ha!

After I have my, "lower score wobble", I just kind of go, okay. Can I make it better next time?

I just wondered how other people deal with it when they get them.

To me, if I made one person smile, or enjoy it, I did Awesome. Anything more is a bonus. Negative feelings that I have when I see something lower is momentary (or a few days at worst, because I like to fix things), and is not due to other people, but the fact that sometimes (okay, all the time), I care too much what other people think of me. But that's my problem, not theirs. That's why I want to know how others deal with it, to see if I am alone in the "I can't do much about it, but I'll beat myself up for a bit and then move on" thoughts.
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Attention Whore
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As somebody who has received 1's, 2's and 3's repeatedly on my stories and poetry without any form of critical commentary ...

And as someone who is extremely critical of my own work ...

And as someone who takes criticism personally ...

And where a "unwarranted" vote or malicious comment affects my sense of self-worth ...

Which has on a couple of occassions has caused me to stop writing as I could no longer see the pleasure in creating so others could be dismissive, malignant and vicious ...

I no longer allow people to vote on my postings ...

And I am much happier for it x
Yes, you should have a hazard label on you, "warning CG will be your every fantasy"

Gingerbread Lover
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Quote by CumGirl
As somebody who has received 1's, 2's and 3's repeatedly on my stories and poetry without any form of critical commentary ...

And as someone who is extremely critical of my own work ...

And as someone who takes criticism personally ...

And where a "unwarranted" vote or malicious comment affects my sense of self-worth ...

Which has on a couple of occassions has caused me to stop writing as I could no longer see the pleasure in creating so others could be dismissive, malignant and vicious ...

I no longer allow people to vote on my postings ...

And I am much happier for it x



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Lurker
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Quote by clum


Really? Where's the fun in that? I always leave my comments, good or bad, out in the open (I've left a negative comment on one of your stories, Maz). If the author wants to chase me up about it (although I'm usually quite thorough) then that's up to them and I am happy to give in-depth feedback if they ask for it. Some (most) authors here don't want that kind of help.

I'm never just mean but I can be brutally honest. Like you say, it's a public forum and if people didn't want my opinion then they shouldn't have bloody well asked for it. (I'm beginning to wonder if some of my 3s are revenge votes...)


The comment wasn't negative, it was honest and I appreciate that especially coming from you because I rate you as a writer and consider you to be a good friend. What is that saying, something along the lines of "I'd rather be hated for being honest than be loved for lying"? Shit, it's something like that...

I tell you what I DO know... If I want someone to give me a truly honest opinion on something I've written, you are someone I can trust to do that.

I think that speaks volumes...

Oh, if I wasn't on my phone, I'd post that fucking awesome al Pacino speech from scent of a woman....
Lurker
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Dammit!!! Double post!!!

Ha, that means I HAVE to post that video now!!! YAY!



God, watch the whole thing... It still give me goosebumps!!!
The Linebacker
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We've all been hit by the cowardly low vote troll that is too chicken shit to reveal their identity. I've gotten a 1, and several 3s often, myself. If they didn't message me or leave a comment as to why, I take it as proof that they are jealous because their own abilities are so inadequate.

If you have received one of these random acts of juvenile vandalism, just rack it up to the fact that you are actually one of the quality writers on Lush. Wear it as an badge of honor. (Honour for my dear British, Australian and Canadian friends.)

Inferior people despise superior people! They always want what someone else has but are unwilling or incapable to do the work to earn it for themselves.

PS. I love that Al Pacino speech too. Thanks Mazza!
Lurker
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Quote by Buz
We've all been hit by the cowardly low vote troll that is too chicken shit to reveal their identity. I've gotten a 1, and several 3s often, myself. If they didn't message me or leave a comment as to why, I take it as proof that they are jealous because their own abilities are so inadequate.

If you have received one of these random acts of juvenile vandalism, just rack it up to the fact that you are actually one of the quality writers on Lush. Wear it as an badge of honor. (Honour for my dear British, Australian and Canadian friends.)

Inferior people despise superior people! They always want what someone else has but are unwilling or incapable to do the work to earn it for themselves.

PS. I love that Al Pacino speech too. Thanks Mazza!


Aw, Buz, you are a sweetie...

I'm not into the trolling thing. If someone believes your story is only worth a 1 or whatever, then that is their choice (doesn't mean I think they are right) but it is their choice nonetheless...

I mean, what if they were to remove 1 and 2 from the voting system? Then a 3 would be shit, a 4 would be pretty good and a 5 would be great? We would also have the blandest, most boring vote system ever...

It doesn't matter... I think it was Clum who said something about making a difference to a couple of people with his stories and I agree with that...

I posted a poem recently and I had some of the nicest PMs, IMs and comments ever (I also had some low votes too). I was so touched, to think that a handful of people really resonated with it... I felt very proud (and a little guilty because a couple confessed to shedding a tear)

To be honest though, I think Magical Felix put it best:

Seriously though, the longer you are on lush the more times you will receive scores you feel are inaccurate. The more people start to notice you I mean.

Look at it this way. 99% of stories that have perfect 5's have like 7-11 votes or so. Most stories that have 50 or more votes, especially if you are an author readers and other authors are aware of, will have fours and 3's in there. Now this story with 50 votes could have a score of like 4.79 or something like that, because of two 3's and a few fours but the rest are 5's.

So, that said.

One story has a perfect 5 score with 11 total votes, 11 perfect 5's it received.

Another story has a crappier 4.79 score but with 40 perfect 5's given to it.

What, in your estimation, was the most successful story? The one that got 11 5's or the one that got 40 5's even though the score is lower?


If you have a few low votes, so be it... In the great scheme of things, it means very little. A good story, if read, will shine through as a good story.

(I'm not denying that it is very nice to get them though!!)
Lurker
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I just got a 2 on a story I spent almost a week writing, no comment, no pm, no hey-I-didn't-like-this-part.

I'm going to go with Buz's post and take it to mean that I did something right and the 2-leaver can go *censored*

I don't mean to sound all bitter or petty, and I have gotten low scores before, it's just that the last one was a bit difficult for me to write.
Internet Philosopher
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Quote by Buz
We've all been hit by the cowardly low vote troll that is too chicken shit to reveal their identity. I've gotten a 1, and several 3s often, myself. If they didn't message me or leave a comment as to why, I take it as proof that they are jealous because their own abilities are so inadequate.

If you have received one of these random acts of juvenile vandalism, just rack it up to the fact that you are actually one of the quality writers on Lush. Wear it as an badge of honor. (Honour for my dear British, Australian and Canadian friends.)

Inferior people despise superior people! They always want what someone else has but are unwilling or incapable to do the work to earn it for themselves.

PS. I love that Al Pacino speech too. Thanks Mazza!


This is unfortunately true. A couple of my best works, one of the an Editors Choice were hit with two's and three's by someone who, despite hating my story, we're unable to explain why. I think it goes with the territory. What bothers me is by low balling a good story it drops away and many readers will end up missing a potentially good story.
The Linebacker
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Quote by Milik_The_Red


This is unfortunately true. A couple of my best works, one of the an Editors Choice were hit with two's and three's by someone who, despite hating my story, we're unable to explain why. I think it goes with the territory. What bothers me is by low balling a good story it drops away and many readers will end up missing a potentially good story.


That's a great point Milik. When that happens we all lose!
Internet Philosopher
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I really don't like to give a score that drives down their over total. Instead, if I feel that something could have been better I prefer to PM the writer and give them my opinion privately. Other writers have done this for me and I am always grateful for their critique.
Lurker
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I still maintain that a good story will shine, despite the scores... A mixed score is intriguing... Like a reputation that precedes someone, you know?

I mean, if it's got someone's back up to the degree that they've actually given it a 1 or a 2, then there must be something good in there?
Internet Philosopher
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Quote by Mazza
I still maintain that a good story will shine, despite the scores... A mixed score is intriguing... Like a reputation that precedes someone, you know?

I mean, if it's got someone's back up to the degree that they've actually given it a 1 or a 2, then there must be something good in there?

This is where perseverance pays off. Once an author becomes known and stands out above the crowd, others start taking notice of their work.
Sarcastic Coffee Aficionado
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I was astounded the other day when my story was hit with a one. It had already at that point had seven 5's and a four. I re-read my story and wondered what the hell was wrong with it.

Like a number of people here, if a story is that bad, I will just leave it. If there was potential, I'll pm the writer.

I remember when Lush had the scoring system of .... why does this story deserve a 3, 2 or 1. You HAD to comment or your score would not count.

Personally, I would like to see that scoring re-installed. As a writer, I am all for some suggestions on how to make my stories better .... but to have no comment on why it's a 1, 2 or even a 3, does not give any writer something constructive to work on.
Lurker
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Quote by PersonalAssistant
I was astounded the other day when my story was hit with a one. It had already at that point had seven 5's and a four. I re-read my story and wondered what the hell was wrong with it.

Like a number of people here, if a story is that bad, I will just leave it. If there was potential, I'll pm the writer.

I remember when Lush had the scoring system of .... why does this story deserve a 3, 2 or 1. You HAD to comment or your score would not count.

Personally, I would like to see that scoring re-installed. As a writer, I am all for some suggestions on how to make my stories better .... but to have no comment on why it's a 1, 2 or even a 3, does not give any writer something constructive to work on.




None of your stories deserved a 1... Geez...
Gingerbread Lover
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Quote by PersonalAssistant
I was astounded the other day when my story was hit with a one. It had already at that point had seven 5's and a four. I re-read my story and wondered what the hell was wrong with it.

Like a number of people here, if a story is that bad, I will just leave it. If there was potential, I'll pm the writer.

I remember when Lush had the scoring system of .... why does this story deserve a 3, 2 or 1. You HAD to comment or your score would not count.

Personally, I would like to see that scoring re-installed. As a writer, I am all for some suggestions on how to make my stories better .... but to have no comment on why it's a 1, 2 or even a 3, does not give any writer something constructive to work on.




Ah, there is new measure in place now, though. As I said, changing the system is not an option (Mamma Nicola said so once, I remember), but you can choose to insist on a comment with your score.

I'd say the balance of your other scorers ought to show you the true measure of your work, lass!
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The Right Rev of Lush
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Thanks, Mazza. (Threadjack) While listening to Mazza's U-Tube clip I got a friend request from her. Some things are just meant to be. (end: threadjack)

Negative comments (as opposed to constructive criticism) are to writing like hangovers are to drinking. If you aren't willing to deal with one, don't do the other.

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Lurker
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Quote by Milik_The_Red


This is unfortunately true. A couple of my best works, one of the an Editors Choice were hit with two's and three's by someone who, despite hating my story, we're unable to explain why. I think it goes with the territory. What bothers me is by low balling a good story it drops away and many readers will end up missing a potentially good story.


I think that's the intention, the big ol' meanies

Lurker
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Quote by RumpleForeskin
Thanks, Mazza. (Threadjack) While listening to Mazza's U-Tube clip I got a friend request from her. Some things are just meant to be. (end: threadjack)

Negative comments (as opposed to constructive criticism) are to writing like hangovers are to drinking. If you aren't willing to deal with one, don't do the other.



Ha, thanks for making me look all, like needy and shit!! (it's a good clip though...)



Actually, I think that a load of low scores may negatively affect your story (and perhaps for good reason) but one or two really shouldn't...
Purveyor of Poetry & Porn
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Quote by Shylass


So what I would like to know is this: when you recieve a score lower than your piece is worth, in both or simply your own opinion, and/or that of your readers, how do you deal with it?


I have a simple way of dealing with it...I just find the person who gave me the low score, invite them out to the jungle, and then arrange to have a hungry lion attack them...works like a charm...


You know you want it, you know you need it bad...get it now on Amazon.com...
Lush Erotica, an Anthology of Award Winning Sex Stories
Gingerbread Lover
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Quote by DirtyMartini


I have a simple way of dealing with it...I just find the person who gave me the low score, invite them out to the jungle, and then arrange to have a hungry lion attack them...works like a charm...



That's funny, you haven't asked me out yet.
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