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The New Mars Rover Curiosity Options · View
1ball
Posted: Monday, August 6, 2012 9:36:44 PM

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I stayed up late last night to watch the scene at JPL as the new, car-sized, 2000 lb., Mars rover plunged into the atmosphere at 13,000+ mph and came to a dead stop landing in about 7 minutes with a very complex sequence of events. Fascinating stuff. Being old enough to remember some of the probe landings on the Moon prior to Apollo 11, it gave me renewed hope that I might live long enough to see humans land on Mars. I've heard all the whining about how we shouldn't be funding exploration while there are poor people starving and I just have to wonder whether cavemen had to put up with other cave people telling them not to explore the next valley over to look for big game when they could be staying local and slinging rocks at the last of the rats.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
nazhinaz
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 1:41:24 AM

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1ball wrote:
I stayed up late last night to watch the scene at JPL as the new, car-sized, 2000 lb., Mars rover plunged into the atmosphere at 13,000+ mph and came to a dead stop landing in about 7 minutes with a very complex sequence of events. Fascinating stuff. Being old enough to remember some of the probe landings on the Moon prior to Apollo 11, it gave me renewed hope that I might live long enough to see humans land on Mars. I've heard all the whining about how we shouldn't be funding exploration while there are poor people starving and I just have to wonder whether cavemen had to put up with other cave people telling them not to explore the next valley over to look for big game when they could be staying local and slinging rocks at the last of the rats.


Yes, I am sure some other cave men must have told not to explore other valley.
But now that we, the human race have matured since then, we do need to think mature.
We must explore the Universe and also take care of the poor and less fortunate elsewhere in all parts of the World.
Both can and should go hand in hand.
1ball
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 8:53:05 AM

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nazhinaz wrote:

now that we, the human race have matured since then, we do need to think mature.
We must explore the Universe and also take care of the poor and less fortunate elsewhere in all parts of the World.
Both can and should go hand in hand.


I don't believe in collective obligations. One group of people (the US) is free to fund exploration. Anybody who doesn't like it is free to leave. But there can be no obligation for "humanity" to take care of the poor and less fortunate, because any authority tasked with representing all of humanity can't be safely empowered. It would have no competitors providing alternatives to it, and human nature being what it is, a global central authority would become a tool of oppression. Central governments have to remain weak and have to protect freedoms, not become substitute parents.


My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
ramrod32784
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 9:17:56 AM

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I remember sitting up when man first landed on the moon and am glad to see us reaching out to the stars.That being said this program opens up new opportunities,more jobs,research.Things that could help.Regardless how much money we give there will always be hungry people we should have learned that from the past.Leaders will always keep the money for their lifestyle or for arms
nazhinaz
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 9:43:00 AM

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Location: Longview, United States
1ball wrote:


I don't believe in collective obligations. One group of people (the US) is free to fund exploration. Anybody who doesn't like it is free to leave. But there can be no obligation for "humanity" to take care of the poor and less fortunate, because any authority tasked with representing all of humanity can't be safely empowered. It would have no competitors providing alternatives to it, and human nature being what it is, a global central authority would become a tool of oppression. Central governments have to remain weak and have to protect freedoms, not become substitute parents.


Are we not all human beings and don't have a collective responsibility to each other?
If I am hurt somehow, will my neighbor not come to help me and save me from getting hurt further?
If we somehow lose sence of collective beings, we are just rudderless ship in an ocean of dangers posed by adverse envirnoments.
If one extends this logic of no collective responsibility, it may also end up meaning we don't have any responsibility of our kids, partner and others living in society we are dwelling.
The authority tasked for all other human beings does exist, UNITED NATIONS, voted into being by all states of the World.
And the authority rests through respresentative governments creating United Nations.
RobinMaxwell760
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 10:32:41 AM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 7/9/2012
Posts: 79
Location: Second star to the right...straight on til morning
Nazhinaz wrote;
"Are we not all human beings and don't have a collective responsibility to each other?
If I am hurt somehow, will my neighbor not come to help me and save me from getting hurt further?"

Short answer; no.

Longer answer; collective anything negates freewill. If you can only persue a collective obligation out of duty to the ant colony then how will you ever find out what kind of person you really are?

If you had stated "personal responsibility" as your motivation I would cheer you on because it came from inside you to help another. But to say I hurt and therefore I have the power over my neighbor to help me and make sure I can't be hurt any further is slavery over that neighbor and will eventually lead to my own slavery to him. I cherish my freedom and will never trade it for the common good nor will I ask the common good to become servile to my needs.

Equating the money used for space and sciene to be allocated to the poor and needy makes for a great bumper sticker, but it assumes the sacrefice of space and science is all that is needed to remove poverty. By using that logic you can soon make the case to sacrifice everything for a singular cause. Open your arms and embrace slavery.

"I understand that 'Shit happens'! I don't under stand why I have to be under it when it does!!!"
RM
1ball
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 2:01:48 PM

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Location: United States
nazhinaz wrote:
Are we not all human beings and don't have a collective responsibility to each other?


I think part of truly being a human being is understanding that the morality of "live and let live" is superior to the morality of "might makes right" and that those are really the only two root moralities. Any morality that claims that individuals have an obligation simply because they are human is not an example of live and let live.

Quote:
If I am hurt somehow, will my neighbor not come to help me and save me from getting hurt further?


Maybe. Relevance? Is it morally justifiable to require him to serve your purposes? How would that be morally distinguishable from slavery?

Quote:
If we somehow lose sence of collective beings, we are just rudderless ship in an ocean of dangers posed by adverse envirnoments.


Is this The Think Tank or The Feel Tank? Maybe we should ask nicola to change the name.

Quote:
If one extends this logic of no collective responsibility, it may also end up meaning we don't have any responsibility of our kids, partner and others living in society we are dwelling.


If an individual voluntarily creates/accepts an obligation, isn't that morally different than having an obligation imposed on him by virtue of something he had no choice in?

Quote:
The authority tasked for all other human beings does exist, UNITED NATIONS, voted into being by all states of the World.
And the authority rests through respresentative governments creating United Nations.


Haven't we seen the consequences of having strong central governments often enough? The UN can be a watcher, a cajoler, an enforcer or a dictator. Haven't we seen that a belief in a collective obligation results in an authoritarian hellhole? Why would we want that for an entire planet we can't easily get away from?

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:00:11 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,773
1ball wrote:


Is this The Think Tank or The Feel Tank? Maybe we should ask nicola to change the name.


evil4

We definitely need a Feel Tank.
Magical_felix
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:09:19 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,920
Location: California
We are like that guy at the party that just has to one-up your story. We're such douche bags.



1ball
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:10:05 PM

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Joined: 9/13/2011
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Location: United States
LadyX wrote:


evil4

We definitely need a Feel Tank.


Ooh, a chat and pet room?

That would add a whole new dimension to cybering. :d/

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
littlemissbitch
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 4:54:55 PM

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Location: the land of enchantment, United States
Magical_felix wrote:
We are like that guy at the party that just has to one-up your story. We're such douche bags.



hahahaaa....yep

littlemissbitch ~ professional face ripper offer, at your service..
RobinMaxwell760
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 5:03:21 PM

Rank: Advanced Wordsmith

Joined: 7/9/2012
Posts: 79
Location: Second star to the right...straight on til morning
@magical-Felix;

Yeah, we started Building the probe 'Curiosity' 9 years ago and made sure it landed on Mars at this particular moment in time just so we could pop Englands balloon. Gotta hand it to us Americans, we can plan some shit and we are really patient.laughing6

"I understand that 'Shit happens'! I don't under stand why I have to be under it when it does!!!"
RM
1ball
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 5:06:08 PM

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Posts: 970
Location: United States
Clearly someone at NASA didn't clear the launch and landing dates with the Czar of Not Making Us Look Like Douche Bags.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 5:13:47 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,773
1ball wrote:
Clearly someone at NASA didn't clear the launch and landing dates with the Czar of Not Making Us Look Like Douche Bags.




Oh, sorry. I accidentally summoned the Czar of Douche Baggery. d'oh!
RobinMaxwell760
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 5:28:45 PM

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Joined: 7/9/2012
Posts: 79
Location: Second star to the right...straight on til morning
LMFAO @ LadyX

Well done!

"I understand that 'Shit happens'! I don't under stand why I have to be under it when it does!!!"
RM
1ball
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 5:36:48 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
LadyX wrote:




Oh, sorry. I accidentally summoned the Czar of Douche Baggery. d'oh!


And he came to your summons. I'm impressed! occasion5

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
LadyX
Posted: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 5:40:12 PM

Rank: Artistic Tart

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,773
1ball wrote:


And he came to your summons. I'm impressed!


Too....many....jokes! Must...abort....
nazhinaz
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 12:33:04 AM

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Location: Longview, United States
To all the comments made to my observation, I think hardly deserve much to be said.
Feelings arouse from a mental activity; if one has no nerves and lacks an adequate nervous system, he can hardly feel the pinch, love, emotion or any sensations.
All feelings emerge from one's mind and NOT FROM HEART.
Do we need any more elaborations?
1ball
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 12:55:40 PM

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Location: United States
nazhinaz wrote:
To all the comments made to my observation, I think hardly deserve much to be said.
Feelings arouse from a mental activity; if one has no nerves and lacks an adequate nervous system, he can hardly feel the pinch, love, emotion or any sensations.
All feelings emerge from one's mind and NOT FROM HEART.
Do we need any more elaborations?


Yes, I think we need more 'elaborations'. Why didn't you answer any of my questions? I answered all of yours.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 4:39:22 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 816,696
"If you had stated "personal responsibility" as your motivation I would cheer you on because it came from inside you to help another. But to say I hurt and therefore I have the power over my neighbor to help me and make sure I can't be hurt any further is slavery over that neighbor and will eventually lead to my own slavery to him."

Nicely stated.

I don't think it's a point of contention, just setting a third eye to the feeling, that I assume both of you and many others have. We should watch out for each and take care of those on Earth since they are right here. However, there are many that have the resources and capital to feed and nourish all, in every way, without having to discount the efforts of science.

To diminish the efforts of science, in the name of love or humanity excuses those who can change earthbound issues. Love for humanity and the ever wondering mind, is pretty much the impetus for such landing and other explorations in the future.

They have their niche going on. Now lets see daddy war bucks give a shit without it being a tax deduction.

P.S.

Romney's an asshole.
1ball
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 5:03:58 PM

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eviotis wrote:
I don't think it's a point of contention, just setting a third eye to the feeling, that I assume both of you and many others have. We should watch out for each and take care of those on Earth since they are right here. However, there are many that have the resources and capital to feed and nourish all, in every way, without having to discount the efforts of science.


"we should watch out for each and take care of those on Earth since they are right here" - says who? Perhaps instead of believing it is right to place obligations on people, we should allow people to live as free human beings. That's when they are most productive and most voluntarily charitable.

And I don't think I grasp your point about using "resources and capital to feed and nourish all, in every way." You would enslave these people with resources and capital in the name of some duty to people who often aren't even grateful? How well has that ever worked in the past? It requires a 'might makes right' morality to attempt that, and they and their capital and resources just sift out through your grasp. They make money because they don't invest foolishly. Why would they invest in a society where it results in theft in the name of good intentions with historically terrible results.


My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
Magical_felix
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:02:14 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,920
Location: California
RobinMaxwell760 wrote:
@magical-Felix;

Yeah, we started Building the probe 'Curiosity' 9 years ago and made sure it landed on Mars at this particular moment in time just so we could pop Englands balloon. Gotta hand it to us Americans, we can plan some shit and we are really patient.laughing6


We aren't #1 for nothing.

Magical_felix
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:07:05 PM

Rank: Wild at Heart

Joined: 4/3/2010
Posts: 7,920
Location: California
Quote:
Are we not all human beings and don't have a collective responsibility to each other?


Quote:
If we somehow lose sence of collective beings, we are just rudderless ship in an ocean of dangers posed by adverse envirnoments.


Quote:
We must explore the Universe and also take care of the poor and less fortunate elsewhere in all parts of the World.
Both can and should go hand in hand.


nazhinaz wrote:
To all the comments made to my observation, I think hardly deserve much to be said.
Feelings arouse from a mental activity; if one has no nerves and lacks an adequate nervous system, he can hardly feel the pinch, love, emotion or any sensations.
All feelings emerge from one's mind and NOT FROM HEART.




Quote:
Do we need any more elaborations?



I think you need to elaborate on where you are getting that good ass chronic Naz.

sprite
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:09:32 PM

Rank: Her Royal Spriteness
Moderator

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thing is, a lot of advances in science and technology and medicine come from the work done by NASA to land stuff on mars or the moon or send it out into outer space. it pushes technology along rapidly, so in it's way, it is helping out with a lot of things back here on earth, like finding more efficient ways to grow food in underdeveloped nations, or vaccines, or artificial limbs, things that would fall under social programs for poorer nations and their peoples.



Love not hate.
LauraLee_sugah
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 7:37:36 PM

Rank: Purveyor of Sweetness

Joined: 9/10/2011
Posts: 2,348
Location: the sweet, sunny south, United States
at least it was proved that we could watch something semi-live... there was only a 14 minutes delay because of the distance.... and the cost for the mars curiousity program was about $7 per person in the US unlike other programs that have very little benefit to anyone but bureaucrats.




1ball
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 7:44:18 PM

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Joined: 9/13/2011
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Location: United States
LauraLee_sugah wrote:
at least it was proved that we could watch something semi-live... there was only a 14 minutes delay because of the distance.... and the cost for the mars curiousity program was about $7 per person in the US unlike other programs that have very little benefit to anyone but bureaucrats.




I got at least $7 worth of entertainment from receiving the NASA emails and then watching NASA TV. Watching a bunch of ubergeeks wait for telemetry data in a room full of monitors is way better than a lot of reality TV.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
MrNudiePants
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 7:54:20 PM

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Joined: 8/10/2009
Posts: 2,226
Location: United States
RobinMaxwell760 wrote:


If you had stated "personal responsibility" as your motivation I would cheer you on because it came from inside you to help another. But to say I hurt and therefore I have the power over my neighbor to help me and make sure I can't be hurt any further is slavery over that neighbor and will eventually lead to my own slavery to him. I cherish my freedom and will never trade it for the common good nor will I ask the common good to become servile to my needs.


Well said. Bravo.
Guest
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 10:48:21 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 816,696
Nice edit there 1ball, you remind me of someone. No enslavement intended. The statement was made in reading the thread as a whole.
1ball
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 11:15:12 PM

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Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 970
Location: United States
eviotis wrote:
Nice edit there 1ball, you remind me of someone. No enslavement intended. The statement was made in reading the thread as a whole.


I'm just trying to understand what you mean. What do you mean? There are an awful lot of people out there throwing around labels like "daddy war bucks" as if that's supposed to mean something other than maybe that they're afflicted with class envy or are simply trying to appeal at an emotional level to the greed of people who stupidly believe government can safely be used as a tool to extort wealth out of people who have proven time and time again that they'll stay at least one step ahead of anyone who tries to dictate who they will give charity to. So when you start talking about people that have the resources and capital and about seeing daddy war bucks give a shit, it makes me wonder what's your point? If I guess incorrectly, it's probably because you're not being clear.

My latest story is too hot to publish. My most recent story before that is Even Stranger In Lust
nazhinaz
Posted: Wednesday, August 8, 2012 11:39:27 PM

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Joined: 1/16/2010
Posts: 295
Location: Longview, United States
Magical_felix wrote:









I think you need to elaborate on where you are getting that good ass chronic Naz.


SCIENCE.
Medical, physics and all related sciences, including biology.
If one has no access to scientific information, although using Information Technology, we all can join to hope, one does learn that.
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