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"Temporary" Slaves

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Should slave contracts have exit clauses?

23 votes remaining
Yes (27 votes) 117%
No (3 votes) 13%
Guest
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Ok so I've been browsing other forums on other sites. I came across this topic and thought to myself I wonder what my fellow lushers think about this....


[quote/] I have noticed more often than not ,slavery has become a ,for lack of better words, temporary arrangement to many. Let me clarify..... I have seen many who quickly voice the opinion " slaves are free to leave if the agreement isn't maintained between slave and Master."

I understand this may or may not hold true in traditional leather and other forms of servitude. However, I was mentored with the ideology that slavery was a permanent with very little room for absolution, I.E, when you accepted one as a slave you accepted them for life.

So for the question part of all this....Is slavery for you a permanent thing or is there an exit clause?Do you believe there even should be an exit clause in slave contracts?

I will not put my 2 cents in till a bit later... Please discuss smile
Sensei
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Whether it's explicitly stated or not, any suggestion that a slave's service is other than voluntary is both illegal and immoral.

That being the case, I have no problem with formalizing exit conditions as part of the contract. Regardless of whether they are or not, in reality, they are still there.
My novel, The Society, is available now in the Kindle Store: http://www.amazon.com/The-Society-ebook/dp/B00BPF9U2I
MoonlightSerenity
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Quote by Sensei
Whether it's explicitly stated or not, any suggestion that a slave's service is other than voluntary is both illegal and immoral.

That being the case, I have no problem with formalizing exit conditions as part of the contract. Regardless of whether they are or not, in reality, they are still there.


This ^

In addition if you force someone into it then were's the trust? And where's the sense of having earned the submission?

And I wonder who the hell chose no on the poll....
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eocpez2
Advanced Wordsmith
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From what I have always known, to have a slave in bdsm is to have someone who is bound to the submission of a Dom/me for life. There is no exit for them unless told to go (set free). I do not agree with the idea of having a slave. In my opinion, slaves and subs are two different people in the bdsm world. A sub willingly enters and is free to leave when he/she decides they are no longer interested. Many believe that slave means he/she signs a contract and that's signing their life away. They are now in it for the long haul. Again, I do not agree with the idea of owning a slave or having a slave. I want to make that clear and not be mistaken for someone who does. I have even seen where a Master will have a party where slaves are then shared and/or traded, with no regards to what the slave wants or desires. I find that wrong and immoral on so many different levels. So, all that being said, no matter if I agree or disagree with slavery of a sub, to me, the term slave means you are bound until you are set free. You have no say in the matter.

The ones that chose no, are the ones who have a contract signed by their slave. Why would they want an exit clause for the one they get 100% unquestionable obedience?
Sensei
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Quote by eocpez2
I do not agree with the idea of having a slave. In my opinion, slaves and subs are two different people in the bdsm world. A sub willingly enters and is free to leave when he/she decides they are no longer interested. Many believe that slave means he/she signs a contract and that's signing their life away. They are now in it for the long haul. Again, I do not agree with the idea of owning a slave or having a slave. I want to make that clear and not be mistaken for someone who does. I have even seen where a Master will have a party where slaves are then shared and/or traded, with no regards to what the slave wants or desires. I find that wrong and immoral on so many different levels. So, all that being said, no matter if I agree or disagree with slavery of a sub, to me, the term slave means you are bound until you are set free. You have no say in the matter.


This is YKINOK.

It is probable that the master you've seen sharing his slaves is doing so not "with no regards to what the slave wants or desires," but on the contrary in concordance with what that slave desires. It may shock some, but there are people who desire such treatment. I, myself, have no desire to do (or direct a slave to) that sort of thing, but I cannot judge others since I am not a party to their dynamic.

Make no mistake: every BDSM slave has a say in things. Every slave lives their life in a gilded cage. Every master fashions for their slave a custom designed "prison" that has no lock on the door.
My novel, The Society, is available now in the Kindle Store: http://www.amazon.com/The-Society-ebook/dp/B00BPF9U2I
eocpez2
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Sensei, no, it was with no regards to the slaves desires. She explicity begged and pleaded to remain where she was. She was given away anyways. It was not done in regards to her desires or wants. She was not the only one in that predicament, which is why I said what I did about my opinion on what a slave is up above. I do not judge them nor look down on them, it is not my lifestyle but my lifestyle is also not that of others. I hope I was not mistaken for snubbing my nose at those who are in that lifestyle, I was merely giving my opinion.
Sensei
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If you are right, and this was involuntary, then you were witnessing a felony.

Certainly by default "no" means "no." But that default can be overridden when people know their partners well enough or have negotiated otherwise.

Do you know absolutely that this slave had no safe-word? "no," "stop" or "please" almost certainly would not be it, btw.
My novel, The Society, is available now in the Kindle Store: http://www.amazon.com/The-Society-ebook/dp/B00BPF9U2I
eocpez2
Advanced Wordsmith
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I know there was no safe word. I agree that no means no. I also believe the forced involvment and participation is immoral and wrong. I did not know that would be happening there. As far as I know, the "group" has the understanding that their slave may be traded or swapped. meaning to different homes regardless of location as stated in the slave contract that is signed. I find it wrong and do not agree with it. I did not stay long and have not spoken to them since.

This is why I think much care should be taken when on this kind of subject.
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Quote by Sensei


Certainly by default "no" means "no." But that default can be overridden when people know their partners well enough or have negotiated otherwise.

Do you know absolutely that this slave had no safe-word? "no," "stop" or "please" almost certainly would not be it, btw.


I agree with Sensei At parties like that, beforehand Master would most likely talk to the slave about the general events of the night. He may not go into detail about what will and will not happen precisely ( He could be training her while at this party or using it as a tool to teach her/him something) Also, What if they are into the role play of "no, please, stop it sir" ...... I wasn't there that night to say what really happened. But I'm willing to bet you sir that more times than not... the people there were very into what was going on.


However to answer my own question. I believe that the exit clause in a slave contract should be extremely difficult to put into practice(If you put an exit clause at all in place). I can say that from experience if the exit clause is too loose and too easy to execute. The slave may grow bold and start questioning many many many things, that should be handled by the Master. If you choose to be a slave, it is for life. A long term commitment. Even something happens and that relationship ends. You are still a slave. You are just a slave without a Master. Just like if you were to get married and Heaven forbid your spouse dies, you then become a widow. I think its the same thing. Your still a slave, just Master-less.
LordOmega
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Very well said Princess. Now you may cum.
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Red_Dragon
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Quote by eocpez2
From what I have always known, to have a slave in bdsm is to have someone who is bound to the submission of a Dom/me for life. There is no exit for them unless told to go (set free). I do not agree with the idea of having a slave. In my opinion, slaves and subs are two different people in the bdsm world. A sub willingly enters and is free to leave when he/she decides they are no longer interested. Many believe that slave means he/she signs a contract and that's signing their life away. They are now in it for the long haul. Again, I do not agree with the idea of owning a slave or having a slave. I want to make that clear and not be mistaken for someone who does. I have even seen where a Master will have a party where slaves are then shared and/or traded, with no regards to what the slave wants or desires. I find that wrong and immoral on so many different levels. So, all that being said, no matter if I agree or disagree with slavery of a sub, to me, the term slave means you are bound until you are set free. You have no say in the matter.

The ones that chose no, are the ones who have a contract signed by their slave. Why would they want an exit clause for the one they get 100% unquestionable obedience?






In the USA this would constitute
MoonlightSerenity
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Quote by Red_Dragon

In the USA this would constitute


Same in the UK
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SlavePrincess;
Every relationship should have an exit clause. To have no way out is not only illegal it is highly dangerous. That being said, the exit clause should not be needed if both parties are doing what they should be doing. A Dom should never push a slave beyond their limits and a slave should never try to exceed their limits.

Respecting boundaries is what trust is based on. And without trust there can never be a D/s relationship.
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Quote by Master_Jonathan

SlavePrincess;
Every relationship should have an exit clause. To have no way out is not only illegal it is highly dangerous. That being said, the exit clause should not be needed if both parties are doing what they should be doing.


Master_Jonathan,
Please don't take any offence to my response, if you have any.

I cannot deny that holding someone against their will is illegal and that there should be a way out of every relationship. BUT as I've said before it should be extremely difficult to put the exit clause into practice IF you have one at all. I also agree that if both parties are doing what they need to be doing, its not needed at all.


Quote by Master_Jonathan

A Dom should never push a slave beyond their limits and a slave should never try to exceed their limits. Respecting boundaries is what trust is based on. And without trust there can never be a D/s relationship.


I agree with these statements too. If I never was able to trust my Master, I wouldn't have wanted to start the relationship. Everything that happens in BDSM relationships is all about trust. Yes, I agree.

But in regards to the contract. If the Master/Dom is pushing the slave WAY beyond what that person can handle, that is a breach in contract. It also depends on what 1.limits and 2. pushing beyond limits are defined as in the contract and understood between the two individuals.

Living in this lifestyle I have come to realize that in regards to a contract there are different ways of exiting. If the contract is broken, then duh.. there is the exit.

I don't know the OP's thoughts behind putting forth the question. I found it interesting and was trying to provoke conversation. If I had asked the question in my words, I'd ask.

Besides breaking the contract and re-evaluating it, should there be an additional clause added that allows a slave to decide whenever/however he/she is allowed to terminate the M/s relationship? Should a SLAVE be allowed to have that power?


Sensei
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Quote by SlavePrincess



Besides breaking the contract and re-evaluating it, should there be an additional clause added that allows a slave to decide whenever/however he/she is allowed to terminate the M/s relationship? Should a SLAVE be allowed to have that power?



Every D/s situation should have some temporary escape mechanism whereby the parties involved can speak freely as equals with no repercussions. In formal speaking protocols, one of the protocol statements must be the equivalent to "Master, may I speak freely?"

I'd post more, but I suddenly have a time constraint.
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Ruthie
Empress of the Moon
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Quote by SlavePrincess


I agree with these statements too. If I never was able to trust my Master, I wouldn't have wanted to start the relationship. Everything that happens in BDSM relationships is all about trust. Yes, I agree.

But in regards to the contract. If the Master/Dom is pushing the slave WAY beyond what that person can handle, that is a breach in contract. It also depends on what 1.limits and 2. pushing beyond limits are defined as in the contract and understood between the two individuals.

Living in this lifestyle I have come to realize that in regards to a contract there are different ways of exiting. If the contract is broken, then duh.. there is the exit.

I don't know the OP's thoughts behind putting forth the question. I found it interesting and was trying to provoke conversation. If I had asked the question in my words, I'd ask.

Besides breaking the contract and re-evaluating it, should there be an additional clause added that allows a slave to decide whenever/however he/she is allowed to terminate the M/s relationship? Should a SLAVE be allowed to have that power?





First of all, the slave should have the right to leave the relationship at any time. That is the extent of freedom a slave should be allowed. If you're going to stay in a relationship that's it. If you are being pushed beyond your capabilities you should consider if you belong in the relationship. If you really can't handle it leave. If you have set hard limits, your Master or Mistress has a duty to abide by those. Failing to do that voids any contract you may have with the other person.

What works best for me in my relationship is a blanket consent with a safeword. I like being pushed and having my limits tested. If my partner doesn't stop at the password, that would damage our relationship. On my part, I don't use the safeword to get out of punishments that I deserve. I trust him to know my limits and needs, but I also need him to push me to expand them.
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PhareDuFour
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Considering slavery has been illegal in the country you reside in since 1861, don't you find exit clauses redundant?

Insofar you destinguish there is even a difference between the types people who voluntarily submit to their Owners, I am curious to know if you believe such a clause is applicable in the mind of a submissive whose sense of self-worth has deteriorated to the point that they are unable to call upon such a clause.

That is, unless you somehow believe that such contracts are somehow legally binding and have substance in a court of law. As far as I know, victims of modern European white slavery do not enjoy such rights, because they are being held captive by criminals. Little wonder that it was made illegal 151 years ago.

The man in the picture below had neither a safe word, exit clause or even a contract. I would say that if Lifestylers require exit clauses as the only means of preventing this, then we are taking a large step backwards in evolution.

+slave.JPG
Si vos postulo me, sed non vis me, oportet me manere.
Sed si vis me, sed non vos postulo me, oportet me abire.
MoonlightSerenity
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Quote by PhareDuFour
Considering slavery has been illegal in the country you reside in since 1861, don't you find exit clauses redundant?

Insofar you destinguish there is even a difference between the types people who voluntarily submit to their Owners, I am curious to know if you believe such a clause is applicable in the mind of a submissive whose sense of self-worth has deteriorated to the point that they are unable to call upon such a clause.

That is, unless you somehow believe that such contracts are somehow legally binding and have substance in a court of law. As far as I know, victims of modern European white slavery do not enjoy such rights, because they are being held captive by criminals. Little wonder that it was made illegal 151 years ago.

The man in the picture below had neither a safe word, exit clause or even a contract. I would say that if Lifestylers require exit clauses as the only means of preventing this, then we are taking a large step backwards in evolution.



Your image is broken. Why not provide us a link to it instead as you can't post images yet.
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PhareDuFour
Advanced Wordsmith
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Quote by MoonlightSerenity


Your image is broken. Why not provide us a link to it instead as you can't post images yet.



What a pain with the coding here. It was an image of the scared beaten back of an African slave from Louisiana from 1853, taken from the Wikipedia article on Slavery. It's not a pretty picture.
Si vos postulo me, sed non vis me, oportet me manere.
Sed si vis me, sed non vos postulo me, oportet me abire.
Shylass
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Quote by PhareDuFour

What a pain with the coding here.


It is a perfectly reasonable safeguard to prevent spamtwats flooding the forums with crap advertising and malicious links.


Quote by Admin
Why don't my links work, and why can't I post images?

You need to make 20 posts before you can post links and images, it's a preventative measure to help tackle spammers.
http://www.lushstories.com/help.aspx


As you were, folks.

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KOJA
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CAN YOU PLEASE POST A COPY OF THIS CONTRACT,HOW CAN YOU DEBATE THIS TOPIC WITHOUT THE WORDING?
KOJA
Advanced Wordsmith
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Quote by MoonlightSerenity


This ^

In addition if you force someone into it then were's the trust? And where's the sense of having earned the submission?

And I wonder who the hell chose no on the poll....
Ruthie
Empress of the Moon
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KOJA. Slave contracts differ. I don't know about the contract in question, but here's a sample contract, from Seekers. The termination clause is 7.0.1.

slave, previously in possession of her own person, agrees and states that she wishes and intends to deliver herself entirely into the hands of ....................... her Master. Master agrees and states that he wishes and intends to take possession of slave.

By signing this Slavery Contract, it is agreed that slave gives up all rights to her own person in every manner, and that Master takes entire possession of slave as property, claiming for himself her life, her future, and her heart and mind.

1.0.0 Slave's Role

(a) Slave agrees to obey and submit completely to Master in all ways. There are no boundaries of place, time, or situation in which the slave may willfully refuse to obey the directive of Master, except in situations where the slave's veto (section 2.0.1) applies.

(b) Slave also agrees that, once entered into the Slavery Contract, her body belongs to her Master, to be used as seen fit.

(c) All of slave's possessions likewise belong to Master, including all assets, finances, and material goods, to do with as he sees fit.

(d) Slave agrees to please Master to the best of her ability, in that she now exists solely for the pleasure of Master.

(e) Slave understands that all that she has, and all that she does, shall now move from right to privilege, granted only as He wishes, and only to the extent that He finds useful.

2.0.0 Safewords

If slave feels that a situation is approaching a boundary unforeseen, slave may utter the safeword "Yellow" signifying this. Master accepts the responsibility of assessing situations where slave calls the safeword and will, to the best of His ability, make judgment on whether to modify the activity or stop activity entirely. Slave agrees to hold no ill will due to Master's decision. Master agrees not to punish slave for the use of the safeword.

2.0.1 Slave's Veto

Slave, where appropriate, holds veto power over any command given by Master, at which time she may rightfully refuse to obey that command. This shall be signified by the safeword "Red." Utterance of the safeword "Red" necessitates immediate termination of activity, is considered a veto, and is grounds for termination of Slavery Contract.

3.0.0 Slave's Behavior: General

(a) Slave will strive diligently to remold slave's body, appearance, habits, and attitudes in accordance with Master's desires. Slave agrees to change the slave's actions, speech, and dress to express the ownership. Slave will always speak of her Master in terms of love and respect, and address Him appropriately (i.e. "Master", "Sir", "Daddy", "Keeper", etc.) when so directed.

(b) Slave will seek to learn how to please Master better, and will gracefully accept any criticism in whatever form Master chooses.

(c) Slave renounces all rights to privacy or concealment from Master. This includes but is not limited to photography and video photography of slave, in any situation, to be used and displayed in any manner Master sees fit.

(d) Slave agrees to confess all of slave's desires and fetishes for the Master's consideration.

(e) Slave will answer truthfully and completely, to the best of the slave's knowledge, any and all questions Master may ask of slave. Slave will volunteer any information her Master should know about her physical or emotional condition.

(f) When in the same room as her Master, slave will ask permission before leaving the room, explain where she is going, and why. This includes but is not limited to asking permission to use the restroom.

(g) Slave shall be responsible for maintaining the cleanliness and availability of all toys. None shall be used without the express permission of Master, unless agreed to beforehand.

(h) Slave is responsible for maintenance and completion of all household chores. This includes, but is not limited to, the following:
(i) cooking all meals; including preparing food for Master while He is at work,
(ii) cleaning; including vacuuming, dusting, and maintaining the kitchen, bathrooms, and porches,
(iii) laundry and dry cleaning,
(iv) paying all bills in a timely fashion,
(v) running errands and shopping,
(vi) laying out clothes for Master before work.

3.0.1 Slave's Dress/Body/Appearance

(a) Slave shall diligently maintain and adorn slave's body parts in such manner as will ensure that they are fully open and available to Master. Slave's body parts shall be able to be displayed by slave in public or private, to others or to Him, when so ordered.

(b) Slave shall never close nor cross her legs in Master's presence, unless specific permission to do so is granted.

(c) Slave shall never wear undergarments at any time, except when allowed to wear shorts or pants, and shall cover no part of her body with apparel or material of any description, except when the act of doing so, and the design of the item of apparel or material, are expressly approved by Master.

(d) Miniskirts, boots or shoes-with-heels, garters and stockings, and revealing tops or dresses shall be the mainstay of public attire.

(e) Slave shall keep slave's body parts clean-shaven or waxed at the direction of the Master.

(f) Slave shall keep slave's hair cut, styled, and colored as directed by Master.

(g) Slave shall keep slave's fingers and toenails painted and maintained as directed by Master.

(h) Master has the right to tattoo or have tattooed, pierce or have pierced, or brand or have branded slave's body.

(i) Slave will wear, at all times, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, a token of her possession, given to her by Master.

4.0.0 Master's Role

Master accepts the responsibility of slave's body and worldly possessions, to do with as He sees fit. Master agrees to love, care for, protect, and cherish slave, and to arrange for the safety and well-being of slave. Master also accepts the commitment to train the slave, punish the slave, love the slave, and use the slave as He sees fit.

5.0.0 Punishment

Slave agrees to accept any punishment Master decides to inflict, whether earned or not. Slave agrees that severe punishment may be assessed for any infraction of the letter or spirit of this Slavery Contract, and will accept the correction gratefully. The form and extent of the punishment shall be at the Master's pleasure. He may punish her without reason to please Himself. Slave enjoys the right to cry, scream, or beg, but accepts the fact that these heartfelt expressions will not affect her treatment. Further, she accepts that if her Master tires of her noise, He may gag her or take other actions to silence her.

6.0.0 Other People

(a) Slave may not seek any other Master or lover, or relate to others in any sexual or submissive way, either in "real time", or "virtual" or "cyber" time, without Master's permission. To do so will be considered a breach of Slavery Contract, and will result in extreme punishment or Slavery Contract termination.

(b) Master may accept other slaves or lovers, but must consider slave's emotional response to such actions.

(c) Slave agrees that her Master possesses the right to determine whether others can use her body and to what use they may put it. Master will discuss all such instances in advance with slave. Slave has no say in the choice of these other partners, with the exception that play with others must be "safe" in terms of the exchange of bodily fluids.

7.0.0 Alteration of Slavery Contract

This Slavery Contract may not be altered, except when both Master and slave agree. If the Slavery Contract is altered, the new Slavery Contract shall be printed and signed, and then the old Slavery Contract must be destroyed.

7.0.1 Termination of Slavery Contract

This Slavery Contract may be terminated at any time by Master, but never by slave. Upon termination, all materials and belongings shall belong to Master, to be shared or kept as He sees fit. Slave, owning nothing and having agreed to give up all worldly possessions and body to Master, shall once again own her body, but nothing else.

8.0.0 Slave's Signature

I have read and fully understand this Slavery Contract in its entirety. I agree to give everything I own to my Master, and further accept His claim of ownership over my physical body, heart, soul, and mind. I understand that I will be commanded and trained and punished as a slave, and I promise to be true and to fulfill the pleasures and desires of my Master, and serve Him to the best of my abilities. I understand that I cannot withdraw from this Slavery Contract.

Signature: slave...................... Date............................

8.0.1 Master's Signature

I have read and fully understand this Slavery Contract in its entirety. I agree to accept this slave as my property, body and possessions, and to care for her to the best of my ability. I shall provide for her security and well-being and command her, train her, and punish her as a slave. I understand the responsibility implicit in this arrangement, and agree that no harm shall come to slave as long as she is mine. I further understand that I can withdraw from this Slavery Contract at any time.

Signature: Master....................... Date: ......................
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