Seems every time I've used this term, at least one person asks 'What's a SAM?' so I will attempt to cover this here. SAM means Smart-Ass Masochist, many consider them subbies, but I will attempt to dispel that thought.
IMO a SAM does not fit in the sub category, they use manipulation to get what they desire, which in turn means they are taking control.
'What is it they desire?' They WANT to be punished, their main goal is to push their Dom/me into punishing them by any means necessary. Some may refer to them as "pain sluts"(I disagree and will expound on this later) as their desire is to be physically punished. They feel no remorse for causing their Dom/me to punish them. They may not behave this way all the time. They may behave as a sub most of the time even. The instant they let the SAM in them out they are no longer a sub until such behavior is gone, they are now "topping from the bottom". They have assumed control by forcing their Dom/me to take action, which if analyzed properly - Is non-consensual!
This behavior can be very hard to break, as physical means of punishment will only fuel the fire. If they realize that they can get the spanking, flogging, etc. they want in this manner without feeling badly for behaving that way it becomes second nature.
I won't even go into methods of breaking this behavior because it is different for everyone. Well, maybe a few pointers.
1) Try sitting them down and explaining how it makes you feel as a Dom/me to have to punish them. Them understanding that it hurts You to have to do so may change their outlook.
2) Let them know if that is what they want/need that they can come ask for/hint toward what they want.
3) Instead of physical punishment take away their 2nd favorite thing (their first favorite being punishment, is already gone lol) for a period of time -- internet access -- phone time with friends -- as I said different for everyone.
The difference between a SAM and a "pain slut" sub -- both are masochistic, but a pain slut will get what they desire in a positive manner. The mere idea of punishment for a pain slut kills their mood entirely, they go to a state of guilt for disappointing their Dom/me. They may find subtle ways to let their Dom/me know what it is they want -- Laying their favorite flogger on the bed so it can be seen by their Dom/me. They may come whisper erotically "i need it rough tonight Master", or even come out and beg for what they want -- and who would turn down such an offer? ;) It is their approach to getting what they want that makes the two different.
Knowledge is nothing if not shared, with your slave, your community, and those wishing to enter into it. So I will continue to look for topics to give My opinion about, yes opinion.
*** Disclaimer ***
My way of thinking doesn't fit everyone, nor does anyone elses, it is not My intention to tell anyone else here how they must see or do things, as there are as many views of what "the life" means to people as there are people in it.
Wow. My parents did all of that to me growing up to break my bad behavior. I can't believe I was such a SAM.
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It takes two to spank. In my experience when a sub plays up it's because the dom likes it that way. You have to be able to inter-react to enjoy your relationship.
what a SAM is seeking is a spanking...there ARE other ways to get that.
You've got to be kidding.. "mindfuck"?... "borders on abuse"??
In that case every parent in the world should be serving consecutive life sentences. These are basic things for dealing with disruptive child behavior. Not that we're talking about children...but the same principles apply in nearly any relationship...first you let the person know that their actions are creating problems in the relationship--then find solutions to fix it.
As stated in an earlier post..ya...you could just dump em and be done with it...but it isn't so big a problem that it can't be fixed instead...IF it's causing problems in the relationship.
Knowledge is nothing if not shared, with your slave, your community, and those wishing to enter into it. So I will continue to look for topics to give My opinion about, yes opinion.
*** Disclaimer ***
My way of thinking doesn't fit everyone, nor does anyone elses, it is not My intention to tell anyone else here how they must see or do things, as there are as many views of what "the life" means to people as there are people in it.
I was going to chime in here and kill four birds with one stone, but a couple of the ladies are already paving a six lane superhighway with fresh, hot, tarred ass.
I'll wait til it cools and maybe come in to paint some lane dividing stripes and rumble-alert strips.
The same GQP demanding we move on from January 6th, 2021 is still doing audits of the November 3rd, 2020 election.
I've personally not had much experience with SAM's, only seen and heard stories about some. Some seem to enjoy being punished by their Dom/mes but don't want to admit that to themselves, so will subconsciously act out to get the punishment without needing to admit that they like it. This often leads to them being rather upset as they realize they are upsetting their Dom/me, but seem unable to stop what they are doing. The other kind I have heard of, rather than enjoying the punishment, instead enjoy angering or upsetting their Dom/me, I can only assume that those SAM's realize what they are doing.
In the case of the second kind the relationship doesn't last very long, and the SAM will likely try to find a new Dom/me who hasn't heard of them before, which may be why I have heard of the second kind more.
I believe that BlackTalon is referring to the first kind of SAM I mentioned, where they do want to change, but find themselves unable to, though I would always recommend talking to the Sub and asking why they are misbehaving so much, rather than trying to make them change.
I have avoided this topic for a couple days as it was becoming a battle instead of discussion. I stepped back allowing us all to cool off, reorganized my thoughts and now offer this:
In no way have I suggested that upon meeting someone with this behavior, that someone should step in and force that person to change..yes, at that point, move on if you don't like it.
In a committed relationship however, sometimes things can distract any of us allowing unnatural behavior to appear. It may be a Dom/me with too much on their mind from work, leaving their submissive feeling unwanted/unneeded - simply craving attention of any kind. Could be a submissive with family problems, having trouble trying to deal with things and acting out to get some relief from stress.
If My slave suddenly started drinking to excess, it would be a similar situation. A need to find the root of the problem and try to fix it is only natural. Just because at that point she is drinking that way, doesn't mean it's a constant need or that she even enjoys it, it means she's using it to deal with something else. In such situations it's better to deal with it than kick her to the curb just because of a problem, it would be cold and callous to discard her in her time of need.
Thanks MistressS for seeing my point... and the first 2 suggestions for solving this problem, talking is exactly what I suggested. The 3rd is a way of reinforcing the talk by showing them that in times like that, you aren't willing to give them what they want (physical punishment) as a reward for bad behavior.
Seems too many people pick out 1 word and focus on it...such as "break" .. solving a problem is breaking it. Seldom have I heard "dealing with", "changing", "fixing" or "solving" a bad habit. Being one familiar with breaking horses..I understand the difference. The difference being - I'm not going out searching for a free-willed SAM to drag back to My corral, saddle, whip and ride into submission, effectively breaking their will to be independent. I'm helping to solve a problem presented by the one who has submitted to Me freely and completely, and who trusts that I will step up and take the reigns when problems arise (whether hers or Mine), to not do so would be a break of her trust.
{(edit) For those familiar with breaking horses... my approach there is unconventional..always choosing a gentler more humane method. Seldom using a crop, never using spurs, and always using a hackamore bit over those which can hurt or cause damage.}
Knowledge is nothing if not shared, with your slave, your community, and those wishing to enter into it. So I will continue to look for topics to give My opinion about, yes opinion.
*** Disclaimer ***
My way of thinking doesn't fit everyone, nor does anyone elses, it is not My intention to tell anyone else here how they must see or do things, as there are as many views of what "the life" means to people as there are people in it.
Now it just seems like you're back pedaling. Sure issues may arise in a relationship out of no where that may need to be worked out. That had nothing to do with your original point. The way you describe it now, you make it sound as if you were having a happy, blissful dom/sub relationship up until your sub suddenly decided to be a masochist. I highly doubt that's the case with the "SAM" you discussed in your original post or any sub in general, for that matter. I don't buy that it's not something the dom hasn't known all along. There's no way a masochist would enter a BDSM relationship without making it known that they were a masochist that craved punishment and pain in a relationship. And if it's not something you recognized early on, I believe it says everything about the skills and perceptiveness of the dom. As I said before, masochism is a psychological as well as a physical need, and instead of breaking it, you should embrace it. If it threatens you as a dom or it's something you're not willing to accept, then, as I've been saying all along, it's time to let go. The ONLY time it's acceptable to break said behavior is if the masochism is something the sub no longer desires.
While MistressS makes an excellent point, I don't think it's applicable to the situation that you previously described. I think it sounded good so now you're standing behind it. Which is fine....I guess. When you first described "SAMs" in general, you said nothing of them willingly wanting to change, but of how to break/change/curb said behavior should you come across it. Instead of recognizing it as something they needed and desired, you immediately set out to encourage others to stop it. Not once did you acknowledge the fact that this is something they NEED. Instead you put a funky label on it, made it sound as negative as possible, and made it known that it MUST be stopped as it is challenge to the domhood of all doms everywhere.
So, as I've been saying all this time (because my opinions don't falter when challenged) if the "SAM" has expressed a desire to change, they'll show you, because change will take place. They'll recognize the fact that it bothers you and ALLOW you to put a stop to this behavior. But it doesn't occur overnight. No one wakes up and decides to be a masochist or a "pain slut" as you so eloquently put it in your original post. It's something they've known all along and something you've known all along but perhaps ignored because you figured you could break it. But making someone deny the very essence of who they are as a submissive is definitely NOT the way to go. And if putting a stop to it seems to be the only plausible action for you as a dom, then perhaps it's time to let go and move on and let your "SAM" find someone willing to cater to this need and desire and this huge part of who they are.
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didn't ask you to "buy" anything Dani ....just quit twisting what's said to fit how you chose to understand it
Knowledge is nothing if not shared, with your slave, your community, and those wishing to enter into it. So I will continue to look for topics to give My opinion about, yes opinion.
*** Disclaimer ***
My way of thinking doesn't fit everyone, nor does anyone elses, it is not My intention to tell anyone else here how they must see or do things, as there are as many views of what "the life" means to people as there are people in it.
My point is that you are adding things you implied yourself and saying that is what I meant. You obviously haven't grasped yet what I intended and continue harping on something I never said or implied to begin with. ...but ....have fun
Knowledge is nothing if not shared, with your slave, your community, and those wishing to enter into it. So I will continue to look for topics to give My opinion about, yes opinion.
*** Disclaimer ***
My way of thinking doesn't fit everyone, nor does anyone elses, it is not My intention to tell anyone else here how they must see or do things, as there are as many views of what "the life" means to people as there are people in it.
This is very Interesting.
I did not know about any of this.
I am seeing more and more variations in D/s relationships as time goes by, (even when I already knew how each person has their own mix) and how very much everyone is different in BDSM.
As grown-ups we should not need to be treated like little children, but there is a great difference in childish and child-like or adult "play" and adult problems that in reality we KNOW that there are adult consequences to our actions, (yet, truly there are a great many adults who have issues and problems and are not so grown-up or even as they pretend and that is evident in more things than a outward appearance). Just because someone is of an adult age, does not mean they are mature in their actions or decisions. I do not think that "attention seeking" or any number of things like that is Mature. Talking about it, and trying to work out is the first thing you do, unless it is so obvious that it will not work out that EOTHER person sub or Dom could choose to discontinue. In BDSM a D/s is a specific relationship (and yes, it varies), the dom has responsibilities, and so does the sub. In any relationship BOTH have a responsibility.
I can see the OP was very serious and it helped to educate me.
I did not read it all. Sorry. I read a good part and may come back to finish.
All I know is that a "Dom/me" is "DOMINANT" lol, so of course they discipline how THEY see fit and ALL is supposed to be consensual and fit with the sub or they are not a good match, eh? I am still wondering if I do ANY of those things, and I think not. I am very creative in methods, sooo, I will have to read on.
