Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

Some doctors require wife's consent before performing vasectomy on husbands Options · View
lafayettemister
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:01:38 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,512
Location: Alabama, United States
Link

What if every time American women went into pharmacies to get our prescriptions for birth control pills refilled, pharmacists required us to reveal our marital status, and then further required all married, female patients to bring our husbands into the store to sign a consent form before the prescribed contraceptives would be handed over?

Or how about this: what if a woman went to a plastic surgeon seeking a breast reduction, but the doctor told her that before he could proceed, the woman would need to present a signed, notarized note from her hubby confirming that he was really okay with the big stepdown in his wife’s bra size that would result from the surgery?

These scenarios sound completely farfetched, right? I mean, women would raise hell if doctors or pharmacists tried to force us to disclose marital status and/or require us to get signed consent from our husbands before we could access reproductive health services or other medical care.

But would it surprise you to learn that apparently, many doctors in this country REALLY DO require men who come to them seeking vasectomies to ‘fess up to marital status, and to then get their wives’ written consent before the physician will perform the procedure? In some cases, doctors require a face to face meeting with a man’s wife – in addition to the signed consent from her – before a vasectomy will be performed.

How did I discover this? Well, without getting all up in my husband’s business by offering too many details, suffice it to say that he and I can now credibly report that this inexplicably retro violation of men’s rights to privacy and medical autonomy actually does take place.

After it happened to us this week, I started Googling around to see what the deal was. The nurse who had presented me with the consent form to sign had told me that “it’s the law,” but I knew that couldn’t be right. If anything, the practice is likely against the law.

Oddly, as I surfed around online, I couldn’t really nail down any definitive explanation of how widespread this practice is, or of why doctors are able to get away with something that’s so clearly a violation of male patients’ rights. There is a lot of discussion online around the fact that many doctors all over the country do indeed make this demand of their married, male patients. But most of the online chatter I could find is from men asking the same question I have: what is the basis for this intrusive, possibly illegal practice, given that women are not required to disclose their marital status or get signed permission from their husbands before accessing reproductive health services?

So can anyone tell me what the deal is with this? Do all doctors who perform vasectomies require patients’ wives to give signed consent, or does this practice vary from doctor to doctor? Why would doctors performing surgical sterilization on men be more concerned about getting wives’ consent than doctors who perform tubals and hysterectomies on women are about getting the go-ahead from husbands? Are doctors just less worried that men will complain about sexist discrimination? Also, how is this practice possibly legal? Any of you legal types want to weigh in on that aspect of this?

If your husband has had a vasectomy, did the doctor require you to meet with him and/or give your signed consent before he (or she) would perform the surgery? If so, what did you think of this requirement? What did your husband think?

==============

Link to another article.. selected quotes below

"[A]pparently, many doctors in this country really do require men who come to them seeking vasectomies to fess up to marital status, and to then get their wives’ written consent before the physician will perform the procedure? In some cases, doctors require a face to face meeting with a man’s wife—in addition to the signed consent from her—before a vasectomy will be performed."

"In terms of good medical practice, most doctors would be a little concerned—if not alarmed—if their patient didn’t talk to their spouse. I’m on the side of allowing men to make the decision even if they’re not going to tell their spouse but not without a whole lot of counseling and discussion. I want to be sure that if he’s making that decision, he’s thought about all the repercussions. Frankly, some men just don’t get it."

"Doctors can impose requirements in a private setting in order to protect themselves legally. It’s their choice that they want to do that. While it would be pretty difficult for a wife to successfully sue a doctor for doing a vasectomy on her husband, it wouldn’t surprise me if their legal counsel insisted that they would be better off getting that consent. That said, nobody I know is imposing that kind of requirement."

======

I've heard about this for years, many doctors say it isn't true but there seems to be enough anecdotal evidence to suggest it may happen. A few years ago on local talk radio, this topic came up. Some people thought it was ok, saying, that a man shouldn't be allowed to sterilize himself without telling his wife who may want to have children. It would be a shitty thing to do, but it's his body so he should be able to do so. Right?









When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Dani
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:12:07 AM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch
Moderator

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 7,187
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
I think this is totally asinine. What someone chooses to do with their bodies is no one else's concern, unless legally stated otherwise.

However, if I were his wife, I'd at the very least want to know. Just like I'd discuss getting my tubes tied with my husband.



Ruthie
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 7:54:38 PM

Rank: Moderator Emeritus
Moderator

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 3,635
Location: The wilder parts. , United States
It's not a government requirement. Find another doctor. This just seems to me to be some sort of backdoor attack on abortion rights. Using anecdotes to make unfair and unreasonable assertions about subjects is a very old trick that the right wing practices very well. There is nothing about this story in any way related to a woman's right to choose and the horrible conditions that the right wing wants to put women into in this country by banning abortion.

I see what you've tried to do here. Stop it.
Metilda
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 8:09:42 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 3/10/2013
Posts: 1,479
Location: United States
Yeah - get another doctor. That's unacceptable.

A the same time: many doctors won't do tubal ligation unless she's had several kids and is done with her optimal fertile years. I don't know how common it is - but I've heard enough to believe most side with that belief.

Honestly: my dr spent a lot of time trying to talk me out of tubal ligation and I had four kids by that point.

...
lafayettemister
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 6:35:47 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,512
Location: Alabama, United States
Ruthie wrote:
It's not a government requirement. Find another doctor. This just seems to me to be some sort of backdoor attack on abortion rights. Using anecdotes to make unfair and unreasonable assertions about subjects is a very old trick that the right wing practices very well. There is nothing about this story in any way related to a woman's right to choose and the horrible conditions that the right wing wants to put women into in this country by banning abortion.

I see what you've tried to do here. Stop it.


I assume this post was directed at me so I'm responding as such.

This is the think tank, is it not? A place to discuss and debate topics, right? That's what I'm doing, nothing more. There is nothing backdoor about it, although I am a fan of participating in backdoor activities, this isn't one. Especially on abortion rights. Btw, I'm on record here as being in favor or abortion.. i.e. pro-choice. What unfair and unreasonable assertions about anything does my original post use? What tricks. I've said nothing about abortion, neither implied or inferred anything on the subject. And what does the right wing have to do with me? I'm not right wing. And if I were, I'd have every right to speak my mind and offer an opinion about this or any other related subject. You're right, there's nothing in this story in any way related to woman's right to choose. Nor does it impose any condition by the right wing on women nor anything about banning abortion. If you have an opinion about the above topic, offer it. If not, don't take my words and twist them to suit whatever narrative you wish you grandstand about on your soapbox.

What I've done here? Simple, offered a new topic in our Think Tank. That's it. No ulterior motives, no hidden agendas. You don't know me and we've never spoken, don't assume you know what I'm thinking or what "I've tried to do". And regardless of what I've "done", don't tell me to "Stop it". Unless I've broken site rules, don't try to censor me, I'm not your subordinate that you can order what to do. If you don't like the topic; skip it, change the channel, avoid it, move on....





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
angieseroticpen
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 8:59:28 AM

Rank: Story Verifier
Moderator

Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 1,421
Location: United Kingdom
I would have thought it was standard practice. Vasectomy must surely be a subject that a couple discuss, reach a conclusion with, and then go and see their doctor. I am sure that this is a standard practice in the UK. Seems an odd state of affairs if a husband can just wander off on his own and have the snip without any recourse. Can't be much of a marriage either!

“When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.”
redfox314
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 10:23:48 AM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 3/25/2012
Posts: 12
Location: Belgium
While I do think it good practice for a physician to discuss the impact any medical manipulation of one's fertility on a relationship, in the end it's the patient's choice. I think that outright refusal on the grounds that a partner does not consent constitutes abuse of power. On the other hand I don't think I would trust a physician that doesn't at least discuss a partner.
lafayettemister
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 11:27:42 AM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,512
Location: Alabama, United States
angieseroticpen wrote:
I would have thought it was standard practice. Vasectomy must surely be a subject that a couple discuss, reach a conclusion with, and then go and see their doctor. I am sure that this is a standard practice in the UK. Seems an odd state of affairs if a husband can just wander off on his own and have the snip without any recourse. Can't be much of a marriage either!


I agree it's something that couples should discuss and come to an agreement together. But I don't believe it should be up to a physician to mandate it. It would be rude for a husband to wander off and do it without informing his wife, but at the same time a woman could theoretically put herself on birth control without his knowledge. Both would be equally unfair to the unknowing partner. Also, maybe a couple has discussed it, if the husband says so, the doctor could believe him instead of requiring his wife's signature. Of course, there are plenty of other doctors in the world. Changing docs is always an option.

redfox314 wrote:
While I do think it good practice for a physician to discuss the impact any medical manipulation of one's fertility on a relationship, in the end it's the patient's choice. I think that outright refusal on the grounds that a partner does not consent constitutes abuse of power. On the other hand I don't think I would trust a physician that doesn't at least discuss a partner.


Agreed, good practice. But, is it a doctor's place to even ask about a person's marital status? If the doctor asks and patient chooses not to answer, that should be the end of it. Other than cosmetic surgery, should any patient be asked "why" he/she is choosing a surgery?





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
redfox314
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 12:44:44 PM

Rank: Active Ink Slinger

Joined: 3/25/2012
Posts: 12
Location: Belgium
lafayettemister wrote:


Agreed, good practice. But, is it a doctor's place to even ask about a person's marital status? If the doctor asks and patient chooses not to answer, that should be the end of it. Other than cosmetic surgery, should any patient be asked "why" he/she is choosing a surgery?


I would distinguish two cases. In most cases you don't undergo surgery of your own volition. You have a an illness that seriously threatens your quality of life. A vasectomy already stretches that definition to the breaking point. Cosmetic surgery clearly falls outside that definition. Those procedures you usually undergo of your own volition. (There are some instances where the techniques used by cosmetic surgery for cases that fall in the first category e.g. Breast size reduction to protect your back or breast reconstruction).

It is however the physicians first duty to assess the risk of a procedure and compare it to the gain. I do think that asking about a partner figures rather prominently in the assessment of the risk of a vasectomy. The risk is not only to the patient's body. I do think the physician should ask. He/she should not try to compel the information from the patient in any way. On the other hand patients do the weirdest things and a physician is bound not to harm the patient. Refusing to do a certain treatment may in extreme cases be the only ethical option. This of course shouldn't be standard practice.

From the patient's point of view, I do think that it is the best strategy to be as open as possible with your physician. He/she will be better able to help you and is after all bound by confidentiality.

Adagio
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 12:45:25 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 1/24/2013
Posts: 2,193
I don't think my doctor ask his wife before snipping the weasel.
lafayettemister
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 1:19:03 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,512
Location: Alabama, United States
redfox314 wrote:


I would distinguish two cases. In most cases you don't undergo surgery of your own volition. You have a an illness that seriously threatens your quality of life. A vasectomy already stretches that definition to the breaking point. Cosmetic surgery clearly falls outside that definition. Those procedures you usually undergo of your own volition. (There are some instances where the techniques used by cosmetic surgery for cases that fall in the first category e.g. Breast size reduction to protect your back or breast reconstruction).

It is however the physicians first duty to assess the risk of a procedure and compare it to the gain. I do think that asking about a partner figures rather prominently in the assessment of the risk of a vasectomy. The risk is not only to the patient's body. I do think the physician should ask. He/she should not try to compel the information from the patient in any way. On the other hand patients do the weirdest things and a physician is bound not to harm the patient. Refusing to do a certain treatment may in extreme cases be the only ethical option. This of course shouldn't be standard practice.

From the patient's point of view, I do think that it is the best strategy to be as open as possible with your physician. He/she will be better able to help you and is after all bound by confidentiality.



I agree with all that. Anyone that wants to secretly sterilize himself isn't being honest or fair to his wife. That's a moral issue. If there are no health related risks related to the surgery, then the decision should be the patient's. If the patient is asked about his wife and even says, "I'm not telling her.", I think it would be a violation of his right's to deny him the surgery on those grounds or to tell him his wife must sign a consent form.

In reality, if a woman went to her gyno to have a B.C. implant or vaginal mesh or whatever, and the doctor asked "Does you husband know about this?" or "I need your husband's consent to do this." I don't think most women would be particularly thrilled at the implication that she needs her husband's permission to do it. Regardless of whether or not he was or wasn't in the know.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Ruthie
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 1:51:50 PM

Rank: Moderator Emeritus
Moderator

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 3,635
Location: The wilder parts. , United States
lafayettemister wrote:


I assume this post was directed at me so I'm responding as such.



What you are doing is attempting to link the actions of a few doctors with the rights of a woman to choose her own health care. I know that you have carefully avoided mentioning abortion or the pro-choice movement, but the technique is obvious. It is misdirection. Poor men, they sometimes get questioned by their doctors when they want to have a vasectomy without informing their wives, that trumps women being denied health coverage for birth control.

Linking to the Good Men's Project doesn't help your case that you were only trying to talk about men's vasectomies. Here's a quote from the article that you seem to have missed: "But what if the genders had been reversed? What if we took out the words “urologists” and “vasectomy” and replaced them with “gynecologists” and “tubal ligation,” or even “abortion”?"



mentalcase
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 2:26:43 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 11/29/2011
Posts: 383
permission? No, but it should be discussed by both partners. Not an impulsive move
Guest
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 2:28:59 PM

Rank: Lurker

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 781,215
When I had my vasectomy (a few years ago), here in the UK, my Wife was asked to attend the consultation with me, just to confirm that We didn't want anymore children.
I also know single men that have had the snip and there was no problem of them having it once they had convinced the surgeon that they didn't want to have children.
noll
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 2:30:17 PM

Rank: Ping Kong

Joined: 7/4/2013
Posts: 2,610
Location: Basement
Ruthie wrote:
What you are doing is attempting to link the actions of a few doctors with the rights of a woman to choose her own health care. I know that you have carefully avoided mentioning abortion or the pro-choice movement, but the technique is obvious. It is misdirection. Poor men, they sometimes get questioned by their doctors when they want to have a vasectomy without informing their wives, that trumps women being denied health coverage for birth control.


You're reading more into it than it says.

lafayettemister
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 2:42:29 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,512
Location: Alabama, United States
Ruthie wrote:


What you are doing is attempting to link the actions of a few doctors with the rights of a woman to choose her own health care. I know that you have carefully avoided mentioning abortion or the pro-choice movement, but the technique is obvious. It is misdirection. Poor men, they sometimes get questioned by their doctors when they want to have a vasectomy without informing their wives, that trumps women being denied health coverage for birth control.

Linking to the Good Men's Project doesn't help your case that you were only trying to talk about men's vasectomies. Here's a quote from the article that you seem to have missed: "But what if the genders had been reversed? What if we took out the words “urologists” and “vasectomy” and replaced them with “gynecologists” and “tubal ligation,” or even “abortion”?"





I'm not attempting to do anything other than talk about his issue. Poor men my butt. Now you've changed from me backdooring into an abortion issue to women's health care in general. No, I haven't avoided abortion or pro-choice.. it's not the crux of the discussion. However, I did mention that I am pro-choice. So I'm not sure how that would lead me to use this topic against abortion since I support a woman's choice in the matter.

Poor men? If you believe that a woman has the right to choose her health care under all, or most, circumstances then you should also believe it for men. If not, that's a double standard at best, hypocrisy at worst. But, since you seem hell bent on comparing this to abortion rights.... really this topic would actually go to HELPING women's rights in regard to abortion. If it were a right wing conspiracy it could easily be turned against them when all the right-winger men chime in that they don't have to tell a doctor why or get their wife's persmission to have a vasectomy. Then they'd be the hypocrites for denying the same rights to choose privately to women.

Instead of arguing a point that isn't, or wasn't before now, part of the original post... one of which I agree with you on.... feel free to offer your stance on the actual issue. INstead of political grandstanding, what do you believe? Should a man need his wife's consent for a vasectomy?





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Dani
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 2:47:29 PM

Rank: Big-Haired Bitch
Moderator

Joined: 12/25/2010
Posts: 7,187
Location: Under Your Bed, United States
proteus wrote:
When I had my vasectomy (a few years ago), here in the UK, my Wife was asked to attend the consultation with me, just to confirm that We didn't want anymore children.
I also know single men that have had the snip and there was no problem of them having it once they had convinced the surgeon that they didn't want to have children.


I actually don't have a problem with this. If you're married, just make sure all parties have at least discussed the decision to some degree. Your body is your own, and any decision you make is ultimately your own. I know a guy who's single and he doesn't want kids, he knows for certain, so he got a vasectomy. His doctor of course talked it out with him. And told him anything could happen. He may feel strongly about it now but any kind of experience can change it for you, and he advised him to look into freezing his sperm, which he did. Just in case.

So there are options out there. Vasectomies aren't the end of procreating, as far as men are concerned. They can be reversed...sperm can be frozen and retrieved later. So there's really no reason to make a big fuss about getting them. If he feels it's best, he should be able to do so without someone giving him permission.



Ruthie
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:10:48 PM

Rank: Moderator Emeritus
Moderator

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 3,635
Location: The wilder parts. , United States
lafayettemister wrote:


I'm not attempting to do anything other than talk about his issue. Poor men my butt. Now you've changed from me backdooring into an abortion issue to women's health care in general. No, I haven't avoided abortion or pro-choice.. it's not the crux of the discussion. However, I did mention that I am pro-choice. So I'm not sure how that would lead me to use this topic against abortion since I support a woman's choice in the matter.

Poor men? If you believe that a woman has the right to choose her health care under all, or most, circumstances then you should also believe it for men. If not, that's a double standard at best, hypocrisy at worst. But, since you seem hell bent on comparing this to abortion rights.... really this topic would actually go to HELPING women's rights in regard to abortion. If it were a right wing conspiracy it could easily be turned against them when all the right-winger men chime in that they don't have to tell a doctor why or get their wife's persmission to have a vasectomy. Then they'd be the hypocrites for denying the same rights to choose privately to women.

Instead of arguing a point that isn't, or wasn't before now, part of the original post... one of which I agree with you on.... feel free to offer your stance on the actual issue. INstead of political grandstanding, what do you believe? Should a man need his wife's consent for a vasectomy?


Quoting from MRO's is what labels you, not me. I don't label anyone. I wait and let them do it themselves.

No, a man doesn't need his wife's consent for a vasectomy. "Does a man need his wife's right for a vasectomy?" is a question. The quotes you made are political statements from a political organization. You didn't need all that to ask the question that you claim to be seeking the answer to. What you were doing was cheapening women's health issues, which are actual issues affecting billions of women world wide, with anecdotal evidence that doesn't even have a reference in an attempt to equate men's problems with individual doctors with women's abortion rights issues. I read the whole article from which you quote. I know what they were doing. If you don't, you are politically naive.
Ruthie
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:11:33 PM

Rank: Moderator Emeritus
Moderator

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 3,635
Location: The wilder parts. , United States
BiMale73 wrote:


You're reading more into it than it says.


I'll admit that I'm a close reader.

Here are some of the comments from the concerned guys on the page lafayettemister quotes from:

Jeff says:
March 18, 2012 at 6:37 pm

I can’t believe women are even attempting to make an argument over this. The good news is, more and more men are starting to wake up to the BS that some women as a group are pushing.

You get to have an abortion over my objection, but I need your signed approval for a vasectomy?

Tell me again who is trying to control who?

Bea says:
November 10, 2012 at 9:30 pm

So much for the “War on women!”

Eric M. says:
April 21, 2012 at 7:38 am

““You want Men’s Reproductive Rights? You’ll need to work with and ally with the queer, the liberal, the alternative.”

I doubt homosexuals much care about vasectomy or other men’s post conception reproductive issues, as it has no effect on their lives. Pregnancy is not high on their list of concerns.

The so-called pro-choice movement is most complicit because of the hypocrisy. At least the catholic church is open about their opposition. If this were happening to women, Sandra Fluke and the many who supported her would be outside the Capital with picket signs. They obviously couldn’t care less. Their silent indifference speaks volumes.

There are plenty more, click on his link and read them for yourself.

noll
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:14:38 PM

Rank: Ping Kong

Joined: 7/4/2013
Posts: 2,610
Location: Basement
Ruthie wrote:
I'll admit that I'm a close reader.


It's not really reading, it's projecting.

sweetaz
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:17:46 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 7/25/2011
Posts: 9,100
Location: New Zealand
When my man decided he wanted this procedure done, he looked at me and said "you make the appointment and I'll turn up" easy as 1,2,3 Consultation with our doctor and all was put into place. No dramas, no are you sure? all over and done with. Now if only giving a woman a hysterectomy when that shooting box is longer required, what a savings that could be!
Ruthie
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:19:34 PM

Rank: Moderator Emeritus
Moderator

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 3,635
Location: The wilder parts. , United States
BiMale73 wrote:


It's not really reading, it's projecting.


Okay, here are some more:

ohn says:
October 30, 2012 at 8:56 am

Its called the Menopausal Mafia in America… Men we need to ban together on this one!!! We are already getting our ass handed to us with Child Support,Father Rights, and now this shit!!!

This is a violation of our rights..!!

I wont stop until I get satisfaction on this…

Noel says:
March 22, 2012 at 8:05 pm

My urologist required written permission, signed in front of him, from my wife, to have a vasectomy.

Interesting that 2 years later, when she became pregnant as the result of an affair…I had no say so in her decision to keep the child, divorce me and sue for child support. In my state…the “married spouse” is considered the legal father, regardless…and you’re on the hook for 2 years, at which time the state will allow DNA testing.

I’m sick to death of the blathering of the lefty feminist hardass women that scream about “institutional rape” and a dozen other terms when someone even DARES talk about regulating abortion or sterilization. Grow a set honey, life is tough all over.

noll
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:27:22 PM

Rank: Ping Kong

Joined: 7/4/2013
Posts: 2,610
Location: Basement
Ruthie wrote:
Okay, here are some more:

...


So, I guess you agree that it's projecting then. You're projecting the opinions of two or more people who commented on one of the articles elsewhere on lafayettemister's comments here.

lafayettemister
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:30:21 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,512
Location: Alabama, United States
Ruthie wrote:


Quoting from MRO's is what labels you, not me. I don't label anyone. I wait and let them do it themselves.

No, a man doesn't need his wife's consent for a vasectomy. "Does a man need his wife's right for a vasectomy?" is a question. The quotes you made are political statements from a political organization. You didn't need all that to ask the question that you claim to be seeking the answer to. What you were doing was cheapening women's health issues, which are actual issues affecting billions of women world wide, with anecdotal evidence that doesn't even have a reference in an attempt to equate men's problems with individual doctors with women's abortion rights issues. I read the whole article from which you quote. I know what they were doing. If you don't, you are politically naive.


I have no idea what that organization is about, don't really care. The quotes I selected are the ones I wnated to use, as they were about the issue. This had come up on local radio a couple years ago. I'm only interested in the actual discussion of the issue. What they were doing or are doing has no bearing on what I'm doing. It's a discussion forum. The question I asked is straight forward, if you wish to debate abortion and women's health there are a number of those thread in the Think Tank. Have at it. No matter how hard you try to put me into a box that you've defined for me, doesn't make it true. And again, I'll say it, louder in internet terms. I AGREE 100% WITH A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO HAVE AN ABORTION. I AGREE 100% THAT A WOMAN SHOULD BE ABLE TO DECIDE FOR HERSELF WHAT TO DO WITH HER HEALTH CARE. Yes, women worldwide are affected by health issues, that doesn't negate the what's happening in this particular topic. It's either right or it's wrong, regardless of anything else.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Ruthie
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:31:10 PM

Rank: Moderator Emeritus
Moderator

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 3,635
Location: The wilder parts. , United States
BiMale73 wrote:


So, I guess you agree that it's projecting then. You're projecting the opinions of two or more people who commented on one of the articles elsewhere on lafayettemister's comments here.


You've missed my entire point. Study the men's rights movement and get back to me.
Ruthie
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:39:34 PM

Rank: Moderator Emeritus
Moderator

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 3,635
Location: The wilder parts. , United States
lafayettemister wrote:


I have no idea what that organization is about, don't really care. The quotes I selected are the ones I wnated to use, as they were about the issue. This had come up on local radio a couple years ago. I'm only interested in the actual discussion of the issue. What they were doing or are doing has no bearing on what I'm doing. It's a discussion forum. The question I asked is straight forward, if you wish to debate abortion and women's health there are a number of those thread in the Think Tank. Have at it. No matter how hard you try to put me into a box that you've defined for me, doesn't make it true. And again, I'll say it, louder in internet terms. I AGREE 100% WITH A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO HAVE AN ABORTION. I AGREE 100% THAT A WOMAN SHOULD BE ABLE TO DECIDE FOR HERSELF WHAT TO DO WITH HER HEALTH CARE. Yes, women worldwide are affected by health issues, that doesn't negate the what's happening in this particular topic. It's either right or it's wrong, regardless of anything else.


Your personal beliefs don't make a difference if the agenda you are promoting by quoting from groups that use issues like men's vasectomies to deny women's reproductive rights. My post had nothing to do with whatever your personal beliefs are, only that you are promoting the beliefs of the people you choose to quote and link to, and that their agenda is anti-woman and anti-choice, and that this kind of misdirection is one of the weapons of debate that they constantly use.
Ruthie
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:45:02 PM

Rank: Moderator Emeritus
Moderator

Joined: 10/21/2010
Posts: 3,635
Location: The wilder parts. , United States
Sorry, double post.
lafayettemister
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:57:23 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 6,512
Location: Alabama, United States
Ruthie wrote:


Your personal beliefs don't make a difference if the agenda you are promoting by quoting from groups that use issues like men's vasectomies to deny women's reproductive rights. My post had nothing to do with whatever your personal beliefs are, only that you are promoting the beliefs of the people you choose to quote and link to, and that their agenda is anti-woman and anti-choice, and that this kind of misdirection is one of the weapons of debate that they constantly use.


I'm not promoting anything. I'm asking a question. Even if they are women-hating, militarisitc, cannibalist, pro-lifers... I disagree with them, if they do, the rights of women. But they still shouldn't need anyone's approval or consent for a procedure of their own. There is no misdirection. I asked a straight forward question.





When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
noll
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 3:57:26 PM

Rank: Ping Kong

Joined: 7/4/2013
Posts: 2,610
Location: Basement
Ruthie wrote:
You've missed my entire point. Study the men's rights movement and get back to me.


Or perhaps we just disagree.
Quoting from an article doesn't necessarily mean you agree with the opinions of the article's publisher. And BTW, these were even quotes in the article itself, so they were not from the author herself.

I know about the men's rights movement, I didn't know about the GMP. I think I see now how you came to your interpretation, I just don't agree.


EDIT:
I think we do agree though on women's rights and also on the specific question asked in the opening post. So let's end the discussion about the discussion ;)

Plushbunny
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 4:20:01 PM

Rank: Forum Guru

Joined: 2/6/2012
Posts: 367
Location: Sydney, Australia
No permission from wife required here in Australia. Hard for a husband to do it sneakily though and not tell his wife since he needs to come home and put a bag of frozen peas on his balls..lol In my experience, women have a hard time convincing men to have a vasectomy. I think some men are worried it will somehow affect their manhood.

" I don't know the question, but sex is definitely the answer"
Woody Allen
Users browsing this topic
Guest 


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.1.6 (NET v4.0) - 11/14/2007
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.