Forum posts made by principessa

Topic Have you ever experienced racism?
Posted 26 Sep 2017 06:22

I do not belittle your experiences of discrimination. I'm just saying it's not racism. Religion and ethnicity may seem to go hand in hand sometimes, but one is related to one's DNA and can not be shunned, even if one would want to. The other is a personal choice, though often the result of one's upbringing. That alone makes it different.

It may be different in your view, but the expression of bigotry has the same impact if you are its target. The nuance doesn't matter because for the haters and the hated there is no perceptible difference.

Topic Have you ever experienced racism?
Posted 25 Sep 2017 18:21

What does religion have to do with racism? I understand that religious minorities sometimes face discrimination, but one's religion is a choice and not visible unless the person chooses to make it visible. One's (perceived) racial features are often in plain sight, whether one wants that or not.

I think this is a naive point of view. I have heard more bigoted jokes than I care to remember because I tend to call the person on it whether it is about my ethnic group or any other one.

I could go on about things that have happened to me but won't because many things are too painful to relate and because I don't want to expose myself this way.

There are many times and places during history where being a member of a certain religion or sect was grounds for discrimination and unfortunately a lot more. And I will not play the Nazi card. Think about the Irish, the Sunnis and Shia Muslims in the Middle East, and similar religious and ethnic tribalism in other places.

Noll, you need to think about this more deeply and not belittle what is an authentic experience for me. Perhaps you don't understand because you live in a homogeneous society, but that is offensive.

(Edit: My original post went into more detail about my background and things that have happened to me, but I had second thoughts about revealing too much publicly. I hope that I made my point nonetheless.)

Topic The Donald Vs The Cap
Posted 25 Sep 2017 15:01

We are and should be free to peacefully protest in whatever way we want to, as long as it isn't squashing someone else's rights. And freedom from having your feelings hurt is NOT a right. Kaepernick and others are free to protest that way if they feel like. That does not squash anyone else's rights.

Myself, I do stand with my hand on my heart for the national anthem for the flag because to me it stands for all those who paid dearly for the freedoms we have. It stands for a continual struggle to move forward for democracy and liberty for all, despite the Donald Trumps in history. And yes, sometimes it stagnates for a while, makes mistakes, and takes a step backward before again, moving forward. And yes, we will again be moving forward.

Trump, who is an embarrassment, is a step backward, but he will eventually be a regretful blip on our arduous march and struggle for democratic perfection. In all this, Trump, again, shows his bigotry and that he has no class with his outrageous comments.

I'll salute the flag but it surely does not mean I am saluting Trump. I am saluting those who left their blood on battlefields like Gettysburg, Bunker Hill, the beaches of Normandy. Those who demonstrated so hard and battled for the 13th Amendment, the 14th Amendment, the 19th Amendment, those who persevered to abolish Jim Crowe laws. It's a salute for those who marched in Selma and many other places for equal rights. And it's a salute for those who will continue the battle for true equal rights. To me, it stands for saying we aren't quitting until the job is done.

And it sure ain't done yet. But peacefully demonstrating, even if it pisses someone off, is part of the process and even if it's not the way I'd personally do it. That's what it is about – freedom. And freedom from oppression and repression based on race, sex, orientation, ethnicity, religion, lack thereof, and so on.

Show Trump the door in 2020. Make him a lame duck in 2018.

Well said. Thank you for saying what the flag means to you and for understanding the point of view being expressed by others. I think you made an important point. Trump cannot separate himself from the office he holds. He takes everything personally and imagines that people should be loyal to him, rather than the office of the presidency. You can love your country and respect the presidency while not respecting the man who sits in that seat now. Let's hope that he will be shown the door if he is not forced to resign or impeached before 2020. A good start would be for the Dems to take back both houses in 2018 and make him a lame duck.

Topic The Donald Vs The Cap
Posted 25 Sep 2017 14:00

He sure did and in the process lost his job and the reputation of the NFL is on a downward spiral. He chose poorly and those that follow will suffer the consequences. Those that say you take a knee when praying, proposing or whatever else, might want to think about that. We kneel out of respect and honor of the one we are in front of and we stand for the flag and country as a judge in a court room, out of respect.

There are so many other ways to protest and much more effective ways .

Please suggest a few. In my opinion, kneeling and bowing your head quietly during the playing of the anthem is in no way disrespectful. It is just different. You yourself said that we kneel when we pray.

This started as a silent protest against police brutality regarding black men in US and has evolved into a protest against systemic racism.

After Trump's performance after Charlottesville, praising neo-nazi anti-semites who had marched unashamed through the streets with torches reminiscent of the brownshirts in the 1930s, shouting vile racist and anti-Jewish slogans, he said that some of them were "very fine" people. This despite the fact that they were responsible for the death of a young woman. And, of course, he was thanked by that statesman (irony), David Duke for legitimizing the marchers. Trump seems to have no trouble with neo-nazi racists.

So, how could he praise the racists and be offended by the athletes? Hmmm. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that he is playing to his base, particularly in Alabama where he made the remarks about the football protesters. You also don't have to be brilliant to understand that this has everything to do with race contrary to what Trump is disingenuously saying now.

The exercise of freedom of expression is guaranteed in the Constitution for even the most odious of ideas. A healthy democracy should be able to withstand the challenge of a marketplace of ideas and their non-violent expression. What has happened is that Trump's statements have galvanized support against his views. The protests spread through many teams and places over the weekend with some kneeling and others standing arm in arm, including players, coaches, trainers and owners. I suspect that this will continue through this week and beyond. Trump's words have had the exact opposite impact he wanted.

Trump has a lot of things to worry about: Florida and Texas and Puerto Rico hurricane reconstruction, North Korea, Iran, his pal Putin, and of course the Mueller investigation. I believe that he deliberately causes this drama to distract from other issues, especially the investigation. He thrives on chaos, lies, and attention-seeking, especially if that attention feeds his ego.

Topic Have you ever experienced racism?
Posted 25 Sep 2017 09:12

Yes. I am a member of a religious minority. I have been taken aback a number of times by how casual people were with their bigoted remarks and jokes. I don't let things like that pass without responding.

I also experienced some remarks and behaviour growing up in another part of my country.

Topic The Donald Vs The Cap
Posted 24 Sep 2017 16:59

I find it mind boggling that anyone can support this POS. My 2 cents

Not surprised though

It should not be a surprise that many Americans support him. Some believe all of his promises to bring back jobs like coal-mining, promises that will never be fulfilled. Some are full of resentment since the election of President Obama. They believed the lies that he was not born in the US and that he secretly practiced the Muslim religion. They were willing to believe anything to delegitimize a black president. Some feel threatened by the progress made by women, minorities and immigrants in society and long for the "good old days" of the 1950s when things were different, when women, minorities and immigrants knew their place and white men were dominant. It was a time when even with only a high school education a man could get a decent manufacturing job and support a family on his wages alone. Those times are past. We live in a knowledge based economy now and those who do not adapt will be left behind. For some, it is easier to be angry than actually do something to change their situation. Trump appeals to all of these people and to their worst impulses. He has normalized racism, sexism, xenophobia and so much more in a way not dreamt of in the 21st century. He plays to this segment of the population and they are his diehard base. Of course there are more conventional GOP supporters and politicians who just want to be in power as well. The party has been playing with dog whistle politics since Nixon, through both Bushes and beyond, particularly in the south and the rust belt. The difference is that now Trump has unashamedly brought all of this out into the open with barely coded and sometimes even direct language.

So, it is not surprising. He has a long list of flaws but is a master of manipulation and diversion. We talk about his outrageous comments instead of paying attention to the damage his policies are doing as administered by his cabinet- especially his AG (a man considered too racist to be a judge in his home state of Alabama, which is really saying something), and the Education and Health and Human Services secretaries De Vos and Price as well as EPA adminstrator Pruitt, all of whom along with others on his team are singularly unqualified for their positions as their views are opposed to the aims of their departments.

We can only hope that the Mueller investigation will continue and will uncover all of the malfeasance by Trump, his family, and his team. I believe that there will be criminal charges laid and perhaps sufficient evidence to support impeachment.

Topic The Donald Vs The Cap
Posted 24 Sep 2017 15:19

I'm sorry... What year is this? 1987?

What are these socialist countries you speak of? Sweden? Finland? Norway? Canada? are you actually arguing that those countries are less equal when it comes to race or opportunity. What a fucking joke. News flash. The cold war is over. And you can no longer hold the USA up as the bastion of freedom and democracy.

PS: having Trump admonishing players for kneeling is one step away from Stalin sending people to the gulags for not sucking his balls hard enough.

Grow the fuck up. The US isn't the only country in the world that exhibits the ideals that you seem to hold dear. Open an atlas, check wikipedia and stop perpetuating this growing idea that Americans are so fucking stupid.

And Kap's race has nothing to do with anything. I know that you arrogant scumbags only do things that benefit yourselves, but some people actually just do what is right regardless of how much it affects their pocketbook. When someone uses a public platform to make a stand it doesn't mean that he "hates" your country. It just means that there is something that needs to have attention brought to it. You overly patriotic babies have got to be the the biggest whiners I have ever seen in my entire life.

While I would probably be more polite, I have to thank you for this post. This person is an example of the lack of knowledge and curiosity that some Americans have about other countries and the hyperpatriotism that blinds them to any flaws in their own country. Of course Trump is exploiting this situation to his advantage with his base.

This started with Colin K protesting regarding police brutality against black men in the US. Trump's reaction to this was racially motivated to please an Alabama crowd and embolden his supporters. Racial inequality and injustice are not okay. Quiet protest against that is an expression of free speech, not one of disloyalty.

Topic The Donald Vs The Cap
Posted 24 Sep 2017 12:29

The over the top expressions of patriotism in the US never seize to amaze me. The US is considered to be the land of the free, but in its celebrations of patriotism it very much resembles authoritarian societies under fascist or communist regimes. What's next, North Korean style parades? dontknow

Actually Trump said that he wants to do that after seeing the parades in Paris when he visited Macron on Bastille Day. Putin does that in Russia too so he probably wants one for that reason as well.

Topic The Donald Vs The Cap
Posted 24 Sep 2017 11:05

Trump (I have refused to give him the title of president since he was elected) has called for the public to boycott the NFL in support of his remarks denouncing the freedom of expression of its players. What he has done is unleash a new force of protest against him and his divisive policies and rhetoric. As I said before he vented more against Kapernic's quiet kneeling protest than he did against the neo-nazis in Charlottesville. He may end up stewing in his own venom. The protests have spread through other teams and through the NBA which are I have heard 70% and 74% black respectively. Sports are a great unifying force and this may bring more people to think about and support what the players are saying.

There is a front page story in today's NYTimes on the response of teams, coaches and owners to Trump's words. This isn't about athletes. This is about race in America. It is no coincidence that he said all this at a rally in Alabama, that bastion of civil rights and home of his illustrious Attorney General.®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

And here is a link to an article in The New Yorker about this:

I want to suggest another boycott: one against every Trump-owned property and business in the US and worldwide. There are other hotels and golf courses to patronize. Of course the real rebuke can be voiced at the ballot box in about 14 months. If the Senate and the House go to the Dems it will make Trump a lame duck for the balance of his term.

Topic The Donald Vs The Cap
Posted 23 Sep 2017 16:47

OF COURSE, Potus45 as NOTHING better to do than start up the decisive rhetoric against Kap and other athletes for speaking/showing their opinions in non-violent ways. FFS, Nukes are being readied! We have natural DISASTERS! omg ..... what a fucking loser.

I say this .... may there be MANY # takeaknee this weekend to show solidarity for Kap and others .... and give the Yuge Potus45 the finger.

Professional teams are calling Potus45 out ....

jeezus .... doesn't anyone have some duct tape to shut Potus45's mouth AND to tape his fingers/hands TOGETHER.

I cannot be the only one sick and tired of this shit.


Of course you are not the only one. However, Trump is crazy like a fox. He thrives on chaos and confusion and, of course, given that he is a con man is very good at diversion. He gets attention away from the news about Mueller's investigation and Paul Manafort, as well as them closing in on Trump's finances, and throws red meat to his Alabama audience about the flag and a lack of patriotism among professional athletes. He even used his "you're fired" tag line. He knows he is in peril and that the investigators are being very thorough in tracking links to and collusion with Russians by him and his team during the election. It is a hoax (as he called it) as much as reputable reporting about him that is negative is fake news. As time passes, circle will draw more tightly around him, his family, and his team.

It is laughable that a man who could not criticize neo-nazis marching and shamelessly shouting anti-semitic and racist chants last month can now call out athletes exercising freedom of expression by quietly kneeling.

Topic Power Play by Principessa and Milik_the_Red
Posted 15 Sep 2017 09:16

We are now at less than 300 views for the Famous Story badge. I know it would please both Milik and me if we reach that level. You may like the story well enough to read the subsequent chapters. I know that sometimes it is difficult to keep interested in multi-part stories, but I promise that this one will keep you coming back for more and interested to see what happens next.

I have posted the links above. I would be grateful if you help push us over the top.

Topic FBI Qualifies Antifa Confrontations as Domestic Terrorist Violence
Posted 13 Sep 2017 13:34

After he was attacked by Antifa.

Actions --> reactions.

So deliberately gunning your car at a crowd is an appropriate reaction? I guess anyone who doesn't agree with your politics is expendable without conscience. You abhor alleged violence of Antifa and excuse and applaud it from racist anti-semites. I call that morally bankrupt.

Topic Where and how did you learn of the attacks on 9/11/01?
Posted 13 Sep 2017 12:34

I was at work and was told what happened by my assistant. I didn't believe him at first and insisted that he show me the site that was the source of this information. I thought at first it was some kind of internet hoax.

I remember that I tried unsuccessfully to contact a classmate who works for Goldman Sachs which is in that area and could not get him until many hours later.

It was a glorious day - blue sky, warm weather - and hard to process what had happened. Everyone was so upset and worried about something happening in our financial district that we cleared the office and sent everyone home. Of course I spent the rest of the day and night glued to the television, thinking about the last time I had been in New York and in that neighbourhood. I remember crying for all who had been lost and also thinking about a time that I had been to Windows on the World, the restaurant atop the WTC for dinner.

Topic FBI Qualifies Antifa Confrontations as Domestic Terrorist Violence
Posted 13 Sep 2017 12:21

You're repeating what I've already stated. Again, if Antifa hadn't shown up in Charlottesville to commit their usual assault, violence, and destruction, Heather Heyer would still be alive. I don't know how anyone could dispute that.

Your remark is the epitome of either cognitive dissonance or willful blindness. It was one of the white supremacists who deliberately killed Heather Heyer. There, I just disputed it.

Topic On being a moderate Democrat
Posted 10 Sep 2017 12:41

The whole political spectrum in Canada is to the left of that in the US, so it is easy to classify myself as a moderate Democrat were I an American. I do not believe in the GOP's tax cuts for the rich and trickle down economics. I am for gender equality including equal pay for equal work and all that is outlined in most human rights legislation. I do not believe that religion should be mixed into politics and that the values of one group should be forced on all. There should be a strict separation of church and state. I am for freedom of choice regarding abortions. I am against capital punishment. I think that health care should not be a for profit industry and there should be a single payer system that covers everyone as in Canada. If you want more than that coverage, you should be able to buy insurance that covers that. I think that no one should be bankrupted by a catastrophic illness in their family and that seniors' drugs should be covered by a government program. I believe in much more stringent gun control than is the norm in the US. No one needs an AK47 to go hunting. I believe that there should be more control of political contributions in elections.

So, I am a moderate Democrat Canadian.

Topic Using your freedom of speech
Posted 10 Sep 2017 08:49

As far as I know, discrimination on grounds of race, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation etc. and acts of violence are against the law. Speech that promotes or incites such violence or discrimination should therefore also be outlawed, because inciting a crime is a crime in itself and, if I'm not mistaken, a felony under American law.

While there are some jurisdictions where there are laws against hate speech, as a generality democratic countries do not put a limit on the content of freedom of speech. The idea is that all ideas, even odious ones, may be presented and argued about in the marketplace of ideas. It is up to those who abhor racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-semitic speech to speak up against it, and demonstrate that the majority of the population also abhors such speech. Remember also that you cannot arrest someone for what they think or what they might do. The ACLU in the US which is a highly respected constitutional rights organization has defended the rights of some to speak despite the loathsome content of their speech.

Topic If Trump can be President, can Kanye??
Posted 08 Sep 2017 17:09

It's not because he was born in Austria, it's because he's NOT a naturalized US citizen. I was born in Japan, but I am a Natural US citizen due to my parents being US citizens. However, I will not run simply because.

I believe that naturalized US citizen means either born in the US or born elsewhere and having one or both parents being US citizens. That does not apply to Arnold as his parents were Austrian, neither being an American citizen. I should have made my post more detailed. He had to go through a naturalization process to become a US citizen.

Topic Tolerating Intolerance
Posted 08 Sep 2017 16:15

Topic FBI Qualifies Antifa Confrontations as Domestic Terrorist Violence
Posted 08 Sep 2017 08:42

Well, right off the bat, with your very first piece of "evidence", you repeated a lie that has been debunked countless times. Trump did not "mock a disabled reporter." He mocked a reporter who happened to be disabled, in a way that the left misinterpreted. Trump waved his arms around in a way that he later repeated when he mocked two other people -- during the same speech -- who aren't disabled. His method of mockery -- while childish and stupid -- had nothing to do with the reporter's disability.

He questioned whether a judge could be biased because of his country of origin -- which is an entirely valid concern, given how the media has twisted Trump's statements about Mexican people. His statements about the Central Park Five had nothing to do with race. Again, people from the left tend to see race first, and everything else second.

Having David Duke's endorsement is as inconsequential as Hillary naming Robert Byrd as one of her heroes. The fact that Trump is repeatedly asked to specifically denounce every known racist by name is an indication of the media's agenda -- not evidence of Trump's racism.

The fact is that you really WANT to believe Trump is a racist. Therefore, you will go out of your way and cherry-pick through every sentence he has ever uttered to fulfill your deep-seated desire. No one ever accused him of racism until he became president. Now, suddenly, after 70 years, Trump is widely believed by folks like yourself that he has always been a racist. Doesn't that seem a little fishy?

Right. Trump World is like "Alice Through the Looking Glass". Down is up and up is down. Small is big (like crowd sizes) and big is small. Truth is fake news and lies are alternate facts. So, believe and think as you wish. There will come a day when Trump World is like another children's tale, "The Emperor's New Clothes" and you will discover that your Emperor is naked. You are a true believer, so that will be a big disappointment.

There is no point in us engaging any further.

Topic FBI Qualifies Antifa Confrontations as Domestic Terrorist Violence
Posted 08 Sep 2017 08:00

I guess I'm confused. Are you opposed to free speech? Do you disagree with the First Amendment? Should we only allow speech and public gathering of those we agree with?

Let the white supremacists speak. Let the black supremacists speak. Let Antifa speak (so long as they don't assault people while doing so.) The more these people speak, the more they expose their ignorance, hatred, intolerance, and stupidity. The entire notion of "free speech" is intended to protect controversial speech. Popular speech doesn't need protection.

On that note, I'm glad to know that WellMadeMale is "thankful" for the thuggish, violent, and destructive tactics of Antifa. Now I know who and what he is and what he stands for. Without free speech, we would never know.

Principessa, as soon as you can provide a crumb of evidence to support your theory that abhorrent opinions have become normalized, I'll gladly join your crusade. As it stands, the Democratic Party continue to be the flag-bearers of racism -- and have been for over 150 years.

I will provide you with a whole loaf of bread, not a crumb. Trump's campaign and tenure in the Oval Office has opened the door to racism, sexism, xenophobia in his speeches, pronouncements, tweets, and at his rallies. He mocked a reporter with disabilities. He attacked a sitting judge based on his ethnicity. He bragged about sexually assaulting women. Even well before the campaign he displayed racism with public remarks about the Central Park Five in NYC and his effort to undermine President Obama based on his place of birth. He has encouraged racists and white supremacists with his rhetoric and has given them the moral equivalence to those marching against them in Charlottesville. David Duke thanked him for his support and told his followers that Trump has their back. Trump was asked to denounce Duke during the campaign and after this remark and refused to unequivocally do so. He won't disavow people like that because they are a significant part of his base. I could go on and on.

What he has done with what he calls being anti-PC is support the idea to turn the clock back to the 1950s or earlier, before the Civil Rights Movement, voting rights legislation, human rights legislation and women's equality. It is the dream of angry white people who now feel permission to publicly voice their odious opinions regarding anyone they perceive as "other" rather than hide such talk at home. I am not saying that everyone who voted for him is a racist anti-semite, but Charlottesville was a milestone after all that had happened before in the campaign and his tenure and revealed his views plainly for all to see and hear and unfortunately, many people who support him are just that and displayed it throughout his campaign. The GOP has been using race since Nixon to get people to vote against their own self-interest and it was then called the Southern Strategy. Read some political history rather than listening to Fox News and you will understand this.

I am not on a crusade. I am not an American. However, I am well-educated and thoughtful. I support free speech for even the most hateful opinions, but I also recognize bigotry and hate when I see it and call it out. You do not need a degree in political science to figure this out. It seems your definition of racism by the Dems is working for equality for all and undermining the privileges of white Americans. With respect, you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

Topic Potus45 - Will he be impeached?
Posted 07 Sep 2017 16:30

I read this comment in response to a column by Charles Blow in today's NYTimes. I thought it should be shared.

Without modification, a put-down originated by the late William F. Buckley Jr. could be applied to Trump: "His ignorance and amorality have never been exaggerated for the same reason one cannot exaggerate infinity." I'm not sure who Buckley was aiming at, but from beyond the grave he scores a direct verbal hit on The Donald.

Topic FBI Qualifies Antifa Confrontations as Domestic Terrorist Violence
Posted 07 Sep 2017 15:15

The people in Boston who actually had a permit to organize had no relation to white nationalists. Ironically enough, it was a "free speech" rally -- that attracted all of twenty people. About 30,000 people showed up to protest because they're too ignorant and ill-informed to know better (and because they enjoy virtue-signaling to their friends, and because they desperately want to feel as though they're "fighting against hate" or some other nonsense, and because they're looking to get laid.)

The Antifa in Berkeley were assaulting reporters, innocent bystanders, and anyone else who wasn't dressed like them. Even some of the leftists who attended their little rally to support them were assaulted.

I applaud the fact that Antifa is showing the entire country what the political left has become: violent, destructive, intolerant, divisive, afraid to engage in an actual debate, and willing to go to no end to silence dissent .

I agree if you substitute alt right and white nationalists for Antifa. Abhorrent opinions and ideas have become normalized since the last election campaign. It is no longer dog whistle politics because the racism, anti-semitism, xenophobia and more are now out in the open. The GOP has been playing this game since Nixon, but with the advent of Trump they have made a Mephistophelian bargain to gain power.

Topic Your 2020 Celebrity Ticket
Posted 07 Sep 2017 08:05

You got my vote!

George and Amal Clooney would be pretty awesome I think...

You're right. Who needs Alec Baldwin.

Topic If Trump can be President, can Kanye??
Posted 06 Sep 2017 19:39

Kanye and Kim in the White House would be the ultimate expression of celebrity driven culture. That said, it is a very bad idea. Assuming the US and the world survives Trump, I hope that nothing like this happens again, whatever the party affiliation of the celebrity.

@WMM Arnold couldn't run even if he wanted to because he was born in Austria.

Topic On being a moderate Democrat
Posted 06 Sep 2017 19:34

Is there a moderate Democrat?

Of course there are. Are there moderate Republicans? I ask the question because I agree with what Buz said about the party moving further and further to the right.

Topic Your 2020 Celebrity Ticket
Posted 06 Sep 2017 19:20

George Clooney and Alec Baldwin for the Dems

Topic Should the U.S.
Posted 05 Sep 2017 13:25

I agree it's a bad idea, and I don't think we've had a justified war since WWII is the only way to get rich kids to fight, and die, in war. Right now it's largely the poor that join the military, and 40% are minorities. Maybe our leaders would be more reluctant to put our troops in harm's way if it were their kids that were fighting.

If you look at the politicians who pushed for war in the Viet Nam era or more recently under Bush/Cheney, many of them sought deferments which were dubious at best. John Kerry served with distinction in Viet Nam and than testified before Congress against the war upon his return to the US. Trump himself was deferred because of bone spurs which do not seem to have impeded his golf game.

I agree with Verbal that mandatory conscription is a bad idea, I also think that the cost of war in the lives impacted or lost should be spread fairly in society. I don't know what plan could resolve this.

Topic Harvey 2017
Posted 02 Sep 2017 06:57

Apparently Trump's fellow countrymen are worth much less than Obama's birth certificate. In 2012 he offered $5 million for proof that Obama was born in the US. Compared to that, his 1 million dollar offer to the victims of Harvey looks like a joke.

At the risk of digressing from the topic, I have to ask (rhetorically) if Trump gave the $5 million to President Obama when he provided his long form birth certificate. Of course not. To put his money where his mouth was and he should have given the money to charity, a real one, not his foundation which seems to be a means of laundering money for him. I will believe this $1 million pledge when it is an actual donation. Trump has a history of not honouring such pledges.

Topic Potus45 - Will he be impeached?
Posted 01 Sep 2017 11:38

Not entirely true. Trump is a terrible president, and frankly a terrible person. He definitely provokes a lot of the backlash that he receives, and truly deserves it. He does tend to skirt the line between what is ethically questionable and legally acceptable. However, I will agree that until a solid case is built for impeachment, and a threshold of political willpower is met to dump him out of office, impeachment talk is just talk. That said, I do believe in holding Trump accountable for what he says and does as president. The criticism he receives is justified. Unfortunately, the threat of impeachment at this moment is not (and may never be).

We have to wait for the results of Mueller's investigation and there will likely be several threads to pursue. One will be about collusion with the Russians during the campaign by Trump and his family and team. Another will be about his finances, particularly indebtedness to the Russians and others, as well as the true facts about his assets, liabilities, charitable giving and more information previously undisclosed by him. Evidence of self-dealing and ethical breaches (such as the lack of a true blind trust for his business) which may support impeachment charges if not criminal charges as well as more serious obstruction of justice evidence which would support both will also be forthcoming. Mueller is being very thorough and has assembled a team of lawyers who have experience in all of the areas I have listed. I would be more than surprised if none of these are proven to a level that cannot proceed to either or both criminal charges and impeachment.

We just have to be patient and allow the investigators to do their work.

Topic Harvey 2017
Posted 30 Aug 2017 17:03

@ seax

Thank you for taking the time to respond, and in such a reasonable way. I accept your apology for the "discussion over".

I learned a lesson too after I was drawn into what went on with dragonfly. Respect indeed is a two-way street.

We have reached detente. angel7