Forum posts made by principessa

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 07 Oct 2017 07:29

I will repeat something I said earlier. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. (Voltaire)

Just because there is no one perfect solution does not mean that nothing should be done. There may be many ways to impact on controlling guns in the US and reducing the possibility of mass shootings. Certainly banning weapons of war is a start. Closing the loophole for purchases at gun shows is another. Limiting the amount of ammunition purchased and tracking it as well as gun purchases would be another. Tracking purchases of guns and ammunition on the internet is another. I am in no way an expert on guns and perhaps there are flaws in these suggestions, but what I am trying to say is that several imperfect measures could cumulatively make a difference. How many senseless deaths will it take to make this happen? Of course rifles used for hunting would be permissible. No one needs a machine gun to hunt.

I know that America's love affair with guns is deeply rooted in a frontier mentality and in some sectors related to a certain paranoia about black helicopters and conspiracy theories. But just as smoking was once common and widespread and is now far less socially acceptable, change is possible. There is no reason for there to be enough guns for every man, woman and child in the US. None.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 05 Oct 2017 10:28

I think you will agree that Think Tank discussions freely wander back and forth across the boundary between civil discourse and a bar room brawl. I would prefer that it didn't. But I've been outvoted. Then I was told I was a fool to expect Think Tank would ever be what I imagined it should be. You cannot insist on Marquess of Queensberry Rules when someone is swinging a bar stool at your head. Life is like that sometimes.

You are operating from a place that assumes you are right and not only that they are wrong and you will argue until you make them change their minds. This is not a topic for which people have wishy washy opinions. So, argue your points and understand that others disagree for their own good reasons. If it devolves, call that person out rather than upping the ante to a barroom brawl level. You retain more credibility with calm and rational debate rather than name calling.


Americans have a long history with guns, but we are in the 21st century, not the 19th century frontier. There is no need for an ordinary person to have weapons of war or handguns. I understand having rifles for hunting and protection if you live in a rural area but these too should be part of a national database and licensing system. The Second Amendment was written in the 18th century to empower a civilian militia lest there be a tyrannical government and remember too that this was a time when the arms were muskets, hand loaded for each shot. All of that is archaic now. Even if the concept of a militia could be justified in the 21st century, that does not account for a gun for every man, woman, and child in the US. Americans are in the thrall of their guns and the propaganda of the NRA//ILA. That organization sways power far out of proportion to its membership, finances vast lobbying campaign with any hint of gun limitations or controls, and holds elected officials hostage to their views with enormous campaign contributions and its own efforts during elections picking favourable candidates.

The GOP seems open to legislation banning bump stocks. The ban on assault weapons expired some time ago, and perhaps will be reinstated. Each time there is a mass shooting we hope that there will be some action to end this, and each time we have been disappointed. If it didn't happen after the carnage of small children in Sandy Hook it seemed it would never happen. Maybe we have finally reached a moment there will be change. I heard a number of country music performers including one who was at the concert in question have changed their minds about guns. I hope there is a lot more of that.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 04 Oct 2017 21:59

The New York Times has published a list of the Senators and Congressmen who receive the most money from the NRA. I thought it would be interesting reading here as the Senate amounts are in the millions.


John McCain Arizona $7.7 million
Richard Burr NC $6.9 million
Roy Blunt Mo $4.5 million
Thom Tillis NC $4.4 million
Corey Gardner Co $3.8 million
Marco Rubio Fl $3.3 million
Joni Ernst Iowa $3.1 million
Rob Portman Ohio $3.0 million
Todd Young Indiana $2.8 million
Bill Cassidy La $2.8 million

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 04 Oct 2017 19:17

I feel like I'm not getting across to people. Let me try an analogy.

Imagine there's a group of people in danger of dying from thirst. You're about to dip into a well, fill a bucket with water, and carry it to them via a long difficult journey.

And you're pissed at me because I pointed out that your bucket has a hole in it. You're insisting that this is the only bucket that will work. I'm not saying to let them die. I'm not saying you're an idiot for trying to take them water.


You have to accept that some of us do not agree with your views on this issue. It is not that we don't understand.

Your analogy does not really fit because, to carry the analogy further, whatever vessel we find, another bucket, a jerrycan, a large water bottle, you will find fault with it and say it will not work. Back to gun control. There is no acceptable strategy, law or plan that limits or controls access to guns for you because you agree with the status quo. You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

"Wake the fuck up" is not part of civil discourse.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 04 Oct 2017 18:27

You are still put up blanket arguments against any kind of control.
This guy, amassing weapons in the manner that he did, could have been identified as someone who ought to be investigated.

I'm sure you are right that people can make guns at home. But, 42 of them?

One tiny bit of control doesn't catch everyone but you are clearly not in favor of any control whatsoever.
Perhaps you get off watching videos of scores of people being massacred.

That is the standard argument from those that do not want any control on guns, even weapons of war, to nitpick how this or that suggestion is flawed. I say don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Any good idea that prevents another massacre is better than doing nothing at all. Several good ideas could actually make a dent in the gun violence in the US.

This may finally have reached a critical mass. There is a report tonight that even the GOP is suggesting that banning the bump stock rapid fire device is a possibility. I guess pigs are flying and hell has frozen over. I wonder what the NRA will say to this.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 03 Oct 2017 17:49

Please summarize the info in the link.

Edit: He was adding it as I posted. It's all good now.

Topic Tom Petty
Posted 03 Oct 2017 17:36

What a shame. I loved the Traveling Wilburys and also remember a great documentary which included him and Springsteen, Elvis Costello and many others honouring Roy Orbison, "Roy Orbison: A Black and White Night".

Topic Power Play by Principessa and Milik_the_Red
Posted 03 Oct 2017 17:30

Just 110 views away from 30K. How about pushing it over the top? Thank you in advance.

Topic Congratulations Alabama!
Posted 03 Oct 2017 17:25

You know, American politics is getting very confusing in that it is getting more and more difficult to tell reality from an SNL skit. Moore is the embodiment of every cliche about the retrograde south and it speaks volumes that he was elected. Are Alabamans in some kind of denial of the 21st century, or should I say the 20th? What's next? Perhaps an effort to repeal the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts? A return to the good old days when women knew their place in the kitchen and minorities knew theirs, separate and unequal, and the white man was king? Oh well, what can we expect from the place that produced that well known voice for civil liberties and equality Jeff Sessions.

I give SNL two weeks to find an actor to impersonate this guy. There will be no necessity for the writers to do anything. Just a transcript of his remarks will do. What do you think? Maybe Tommy Lee Jones if they can convince him to do it.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 03 Oct 2017 16:10

I think I said that. But anyway, po tay toe -- po tah toe. Either way I'll take mine baked with drawn butter. You can keep the sour cream.

Perhaps "about" should be pronounced like "a boat."

But I'm not going for "tyre". It just looks too weird.

"Tyre" is British. We spell it tire just like you do.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 03 Oct 2017 15:36

There have been some comparisons here between the gun rights / gun control balance in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. The suggestion was pretty much that the situation in the USA would be much better if we just followed our cousins in one or more of those countries. Let me suggest an analogy of why there would be significant problems for anyone trying to implement such a regime.

Consider Puerto Rico and Cuba. These two Caribbean islands were both Spanish colonies from the 1500's until the close of the Spanish American war. So just as the USA shares a common heritage with our cousins in the four countries I listed above, Puerto Rico and Cuba share much of theirs. But I know people from both islands. If you mix them up and refer to someone from either island as coming from the other you will have trouble. Ditto if you suggested that the solution to Puerto Rico's problems would be to adopt an idea that Cuba was using, or vice versa.

Similarly, tell someone from Texas that they're going to be living under Canadian gun control. Hell, try telling someone from the UK that they're going to be switched to Canada's gun control scheme. Either way people are going to dig in their heels.

Just as Puerto Ricans are not Cubans with a funny accent, we're not Canadians that mispronounce "about."

It is not as if the US has not borrowed ideas from other countries before. They just claim they thought of them first.

And it is Yanks who mispronounce "about".

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 03 Oct 2017 15:33

you're right! he would have done just as much damage with a bag full of rocks, right?

Of course. Just like the NRA says, guns don't kill people, people kill people. But they do it with guns.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 03 Oct 2017 14:06

Bingo. You are so right. This is not a political party issue. Its a mindset issue. Name calling is fools play and it loses focus on the tread.

With respect, it is not a political party issue, but it is a political issue as gun control can only be addressed by government. Those who have posted here have expressed their shock and regret regarding the shooting, but as I said above events like this inevitably start the conversation about gun control in the US. So long as we refrain from namecalling and argue respectfully I see nothing wrong or off track about that.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 03 Oct 2017 14:02

Back on the first page I got reprimanded because I said a joke to my Master on here. Well now you all turn this into a hate-Trump, and hate- NRA thread. Let's keep the thread on track and use our words on how we pray and feel for the victim's of Las Vegas. That Doctor guy on here asked me how that gunman would suffer. Well I could imagine he would suffer in the court system if he chose to live and been captured by the brave men and women from the LVPD. I think you all are looking at what happened wrong. Did you notice something the past two days? I did, I noticed strangers helping others instead of running away from gun shots. A sea of humanity helping wounded, making sure people got to the hospital by any means necessary. Lines of people outside the blood banks willing to donate and donating money for victim's family's on a go fund me page. Their is no one right answer to this tragedy. Only that as American's we have an amazing way of showing our spirit when it really counts. Strangers helping anyway they can, no one caring if they were left or right just wanting everyone to be safe. The off-duty police officers running into danger to help anyway they can. All of LVPD and the doctor's and nurse's THANK YOU to all of them!!

For the record, no one is posting anything about Trump here. As for the NRA, it is inextricably linked to the issue of gun violence in the US, so it is to be expected that the NRA and gun control would be talked about after yet another mass shooting, the worst in US history as I understand it.

Those who post here, whatever side of the issue they are on, are not diverting this thread off track. With all due respect, the person who most obviously did that was you with the tasteless post you describe now as a joke for your Master. That is what had no place here.

Read and learn.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 03 Oct 2017 12:06

@ Seax Thank you for the clarification. For all intents and purposes the ILA is arm's length from the NRA to inoculate its educational activities but they are one and the same. I wonder if they publish the amounts of money collected from their members for the ILA.

I read this in The New Yorker today in an article by John Cassidy. After describing the usual thoughts and prayers reactions of politicians, he wrote this:

Elsewhere on Capitol Hill, preparations continued for the passage of the Sportsmen’s Heritage and Recreational Enhancement Act of 2017, a carefully misnamed piece of legislation that would make it easier to import assault-style rifles, transport weapons across state lines, and purchase silencers—the sale of which has been strictly restricted since the nineteen-thirties, when they proved popular with gangsters. Last month, the House Committee on Natural Resources marked up the share Act and passed it. Until the shooting in Las Vegas, it had been expected to go to the floor of the House as early as this week, and its supporters, including the N.R.A., were expecting a victory. “There has never been a better opportunity to pass this important and far-reaching legislation,” a piece on the Web site of the N.R.A.’s Institute for Legislative Action noted last month.

So not only are assault weapons going to be easier to import but now they may have silencers. God forbid that someone with such a weapon should disturb others with noise or thereby give away his location. I have no doubt that after what they consider a decent interval this will pass the GOP dominated Congress. I wonder if Steve Scaliese who was shot at a congressional baseball practice this year will vote for or against it given that he is a Freedom Caucus GOP member - probably the furthest right GOP faction.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 03 Oct 2017 10:54

I am the NRA, so is just about everyone I know. This is an organization of law abiding American citizens who believe in the right to protect themselves. We voted for Trump over Hillary Clinton. We voted to protect the constitution and the bill of rights. We voted to protect the first amendment so liberals can say whatever stupid things they want to say. The NRA is American citizens like myself, it is not an organization without members, it is an group of people who have formed an organization. I would like to blame the ACLU for much, but I know it's also an organization of members. Stop blaming the NRA, that's just stupid!

The dues you pay to the NRA support a vast lobby machine that vociferously fights any and all attempts to control the acquisition of guns in the US and to track their ownership. This organization is insidious in the pressure it applies to elected officials backed up by enormous amounts of money in political contributions to the candidates of their choice, namely those who will not consider any legislation that controls guns of any kind, even those that are weapons of war. So, you can blame the people who support the ACLU when they defend civil rights and the US Constitution with their contributions, and you can take a small part of the responsibility for what the NRA does. I blame the NRA in large part for the inability of the US Congress to come to some agreement on reasonable gun control and it is not stupid at all. Politicians are addicted to their money and frankly afraid of going against them.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 03 Oct 2017 08:11

We will hear all of the usual "sending thoughts and prayers to the families" from politicians and others in the aftermath of this. With no disrespect meant to those who are religious, thoughts and prayers are worthless without taking action that has a real impact on preventing this from happening again anywhere in the US. What is needed is some courage from office holders to reject the NRA and its mantra that guns don't kill people, people kill people. Yes, they do - with guns.

There has to be some introspection now on why guns have such reverence in the US. The citizens of Canada, the UK, Australia, NZ, and European countries manage to live perfectly well without each and every one of them (statistically as compared to the US) owning a gun.

The disingenuous handwringing from politicians has to stop. Gun control has failed each and every time after these incidents. Now is the time to change that once and for all. So, the NRA and its money have to be rejected. Its influence must end. No excuses. No looking for some psychological reasons that the shooters act. A move to limit the access to guns by the mentally ill failed earlier this year. Even that was too much for the NRA.

There is no reason for anyone to own a weapon of war in a civilized society - period. The American people have to stand up and demand that this change.

The editorial in the New York Times today tells us that in the last 477 days (since Orlando) there have been 521 mass shootings in the US and zero action from Congress. There have been at least 585 people killed and 1256 injured. We know why. That has to end now.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 02 Oct 2017 19:31

For those who don't know, I live in Las Vegas. I moved here just over 4 years ago. I've been to Mandalay Bay many times and even got to see The Go-Go's final tour there. This afternoon at lunch I learned that one of the teachers I work with had a rough night. Her daughter was supposed to attend that concert, but thankfully backed out at the last minute. Another teacher was supposed to be there, but had to cancel due to a wedding. Both had friends there.

Then tonight I learned that a former student was there... her uncle was killed and she witnessed a man being killed. No child should ever see this. Hell, not human being should ever see this. I fear tomorrow my students will come with stories of family members who were hurt or god-forbid... killed.

I've always felt we needed some serious gun reform in regards to the laws we currently have. My father has a terrifying collection of guns including some that I personally feel no civilian truly needs. I personally own no guns as it's not something that I wish to own.

I do hope something does change. I don't want to know who takes Las Vegas's place in this list of tragedies. After what happened in Florida, I was hoping changes would have made. Maybe Las Vegas will have better luck. crybaby

My 2 cents

I wish that would happen but am not hopeful. If no limits were placed on gun ownership after the slaughter of elementary school children at Sandy Hook, children for God's sake, and the other incidents that followed, nothing will break the love affair that many Americans have with their guns and the power that the NRA has over Senators and Congressional reps. I am certain that there are many, many Americans who would welcome reasonable gun control, but they will have to find a way to exert much more political pressure to get anything done. Many people of good will have tried to no avail. I don't have any answers, just deep regret that the shootings keep on happening and the numbers of dead keep climbing.

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 02 Oct 2017 18:08

Please will someone explain to me why ordinary people need weapons of war? I understand the need for rifles if you live in a rural setting for self-protection and hunting. What I don't understand is why anyone, rural or urban, needs arms that are used only for killing people. As I understand it the per capita rate of gun ownership in the US is 112 per 100, the highest in the world.

Please do not tell me about the constitutional guarantee of the right to bear arms. My view is that it is not meant to arm every man, woman and child in the country, but to arm a militia should it be needed (an archaic thought).

Every time this happens, we mourn the victims and analyze how it happened, but nothing changes. When will the stranglehold that the NRA has on politicians be overcome?

Topic Las Vegas shooting: Dozens killed in Mandalay Bay attack
Posted 02 Oct 2017 13:53

Heart-breaking watching this unfold.

How many more times must this happen before the NRA wakes up?

Slight correction. How many more times must this happen before Americans and their government wake up? The NRA will never relent.

I wish the families of those murdered the strength to get through this as well as my condolences. I wish those hurt a speedy recovery and the same strength. I wish all involved the grace they will also need.

I have no expectation that this will make any difference to the gun laws in the US. If the slaughter of children in Sandy Hook was not impetus enough, nothing is.

Topic Presidential Tweets
Posted 01 Oct 2017 13:59

Sounds like a Think Tank post to me, unless the Spa is not also a safe space for Trump followers of course. Which I think it is.

Anyway, I agree.

This is what Nicola said were the rules of the game for the Spa:

This "safe space" forum, is meant for people who prefer a harmonious and non-confrontational place, to discuss current events, and any subjects which might not fit in other forums.

It will be heavily moderated, so if you like vociferously arguing, trolling and winding people up, this is not the place for you. All posts of such a nature, will be removed, and repeat offenders, blocked from posting here.

As is the case across the site, hate speech and other inappropriate content, is disallowed.

I think that you may express an opinion, even a strong one, so long as you are not including ad hominem attacks on other posters or generally trolling. Every discussion will have two or more sides and many more opinions and that is allowed within the stated parameters so long as we are civil with each other. Anyhow, I think I have complied.

Topic Presidential Tweets
Posted 01 Oct 2017 08:42

Trump removed his tweets supporting the loser in the Alabama primary because he hates losing and wanted the record erased. He hates losing.

He tweets for many reasons. To vent. To undermine reporting that is critical of him by calling it fake news. To gloat. To burnish his ego. To leapfrog over legitimate media outlets and communicate directly with his supporters (often with information that is a blatant lie). To distract from issues and stories that he doesn't like and replace them with other stories. He uses the tweets to insult and demean, to belittle anyone who opposes him or his action.

Trump thrives on chaos and deception. He is an ultimate con man and knows how to manipulate his followers to believe him implicitly despite evidence to the contrary that they can read and see for themselves. This is like two children's stories: "The Emperor's New Clothes" and "Alice Through the Looking Glass". It is like the former in that a segment of the population will not accept what is in front of their eyes and ears and accepts what he tells them with no cognitive dissonance. One day they will see he is naked. It is like the latter in that down is up and up is down. Truth is fake news and lies are alternate facts (Kellyanne Conway).

Trump's tweets will be part of the historical record of his presidency and there is nothing he can do to stop that. With hindsight I have no doubt that they will see him as an entitled, petulant ignoramus.

Topic Have you ever experienced racism?
Posted 26 Sep 2017 14:17

No they wouldn't agree with me. I couldn't wrap my head around it before that's why I asked more questions. I get it now and I agree with you. I can't imagine what that is like.

Thank you for understanding.

Topic Have you ever experienced racism?
Posted 26 Sep 2017 11:56

That's one place where the discussion can get to be a bit confusing. The ethnic group referred to as Jews are mostly descendants of the biblical Jews, mostly practice Judaism, the religion, and often speak Hebrew, the language, at least to some extent.

But I believe the Third Reich persecuted and attempted to exterminate them because of their ethnicity, as they were one of the groups considered as "untermenschen i.e. subhuman", rather than because of their religion.

From the Wikipedia article:

"Untermensch (German pronunciation: , underman, sub-man, subhuman; plural: Untermenschen) is a term that became infamous when the Nazis used it to describe non-Aryan "inferior people" often referred to as "the masses from the East", that is Jews, Roma, and Slavs - mainly ethnic Poles, Serbs, and later also Russians. The term was also applied to most Blacks, and persons of color, with some particular exceptions. Jewish people were to be exterminated in the Holocaust, along with Romani people, and the physically and mentally disabled According to the Generalplan Ost, the Slavic population of East-Central Europe was to be reduced in part through mass murder in the Holocaust, with a majority expelled to Asia and used as slave labor in the Reich. These concepts were an important part of the Nazi racial policy."

Precisely, religion and ethnicity were conflated, not separated. The Jews of Europe did not all practice their religion, and some were almost entirely assimilated into their local culture, but in the eyes of the Nazis, the remained Jews. German Jews were among the most assimilated as compared to Jews in the villages of Poland, the Ukraine, and elsewhere and nonetheless were the targets of all of the rules. They and others from every country overtaken by the Germans were fodder for the concentration camps and extermination.

I did not mean to get this thread off track into this discussion. I will leave it there.

Topic Have you ever experienced racism?
Posted 26 Sep 2017 09:46

Someone asks you if you have ever experienced racism, and you answer yes because you've experienced bigotry? Experiencing bigotry because of your choice of religion is not racism. I can understand you're saying it would feel similar but it's not the same thing.

Think, Trinket, think. Would six million Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust agree with you?

You are blaming the victim of bigotry by saying they choose to be a victim. So if they had not "chosen" to be Jewish, the outcome would have been different? I don't think so because they were perceived as Jews no matter what they did. The Germans, and many others, racialized their religion, as some like those who marched in Charlottesville still do.

@ Dani You are exactly right about some religions, like Judaism, being considered an ethnic group.

Topic Have you ever experienced racism?
Posted 26 Sep 2017 06:22

I do not belittle your experiences of discrimination. I'm just saying it's not racism. Religion and ethnicity may seem to go hand in hand sometimes, but one is related to one's DNA and can not be shunned, even if one would want to. The other is a personal choice, though often the result of one's upbringing. That alone makes it different.

It may be different in your view, but the expression of bigotry has the same impact if you are its target. The nuance doesn't matter because for the haters and the hated there is no perceptible difference.

Topic Have you ever experienced racism?
Posted 25 Sep 2017 18:21

What does religion have to do with racism? I understand that religious minorities sometimes face discrimination, but one's religion is a choice and not visible unless the person chooses to make it visible. One's (perceived) racial features are often in plain sight, whether one wants that or not.

I think this is a naive point of view. I have heard more bigoted jokes than I care to remember because I tend to call the person on it whether it is about my ethnic group or any other one.

I could go on about things that have happened to me but won't because many things are too painful to relate and because I don't want to expose myself this way.

There are many times and places during history where being a member of a certain religion or sect was grounds for discrimination and unfortunately a lot more. And I will not play the Nazi card. Think about the Irish, the Sunnis and Shia Muslims in the Middle East, and similar religious and ethnic tribalism in other places.

Noll, you need to think about this more deeply and not belittle what is an authentic experience for me. Perhaps you don't understand because you live in a homogeneous society, but that is offensive.

(Edit: My original post went into more detail about my background and things that have happened to me, but I had second thoughts about revealing too much publicly. I hope that I made my point nonetheless.)

Topic The Donald Vs The Cap
Posted 25 Sep 2017 15:01

We are and should be free to peacefully protest in whatever way we want to, as long as it isn't squashing someone else's rights. And freedom from having your feelings hurt is NOT a right. Kaepernick and others are free to protest that way if they feel like. That does not squash anyone else's rights.

Myself, I do stand with my hand on my heart for the national anthem for the flag because to me it stands for all those who paid dearly for the freedoms we have. It stands for a continual struggle to move forward for democracy and liberty for all, despite the Donald Trumps in history. And yes, sometimes it stagnates for a while, makes mistakes, and takes a step backward before again, moving forward. And yes, we will again be moving forward.

Trump, who is an embarrassment, is a step backward, but he will eventually be a regretful blip on our arduous march and struggle for democratic perfection. In all this, Trump, again, shows his bigotry and that he has no class with his outrageous comments.

I'll salute the flag but it surely does not mean I am saluting Trump. I am saluting those who left their blood on battlefields like Gettysburg, Bunker Hill, the beaches of Normandy. Those who demonstrated so hard and battled for the 13th Amendment, the 14th Amendment, the 19th Amendment, those who persevered to abolish Jim Crowe laws. It's a salute for those who marched in Selma and many other places for equal rights. And it's a salute for those who will continue the battle for true equal rights. To me, it stands for saying we aren't quitting until the job is done.

And it sure ain't done yet. But peacefully demonstrating, even if it pisses someone off, is part of the process and even if it's not the way I'd personally do it. That's what it is about – freedom. And freedom from oppression and repression based on race, sex, orientation, ethnicity, religion, lack thereof, and so on.

Show Trump the door in 2020. Make him a lame duck in 2018.

Well said. Thank you for saying what the flag means to you and for understanding the point of view being expressed by others. I think you made an important point. Trump cannot separate himself from the office he holds. He takes everything personally and imagines that people should be loyal to him, rather than the office of the presidency. You can love your country and respect the presidency while not respecting the man who sits in that seat now. Let's hope that he will be shown the door if he is not forced to resign or impeached before 2020. A good start would be for the Dems to take back both houses in 2018 and make him a lame duck.

Topic The Donald Vs The Cap
Posted 25 Sep 2017 14:00

He sure did and in the process lost his job and the reputation of the NFL is on a downward spiral. He chose poorly and those that follow will suffer the consequences. Those that say you take a knee when praying, proposing or whatever else, might want to think about that. We kneel out of respect and honor of the one we are in front of and we stand for the flag and country as a judge in a court room, out of respect.

There are so many other ways to protest and much more effective ways .

Please suggest a few. In my opinion, kneeling and bowing your head quietly during the playing of the anthem is in no way disrespectful. It is just different. You yourself said that we kneel when we pray.

This started as a silent protest against police brutality regarding black men in US and has evolved into a protest against systemic racism.

After Trump's performance after Charlottesville, praising neo-nazi anti-semites who had marched unashamed through the streets with torches reminiscent of the brownshirts in the 1930s, shouting vile racist and anti-Jewish slogans, he said that some of them were "very fine" people. This despite the fact that they were responsible for the death of a young woman. And, of course, he was thanked by that statesman (irony), David Duke for legitimizing the marchers. Trump seems to have no trouble with neo-nazi racists.

So, how could he praise the racists and be offended by the athletes? Hmmm. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that he is playing to his base, particularly in Alabama where he made the remarks about the football protesters. You also don't have to be brilliant to understand that this has everything to do with race contrary to what Trump is disingenuously saying now.

The exercise of freedom of expression is guaranteed in the Constitution for even the most odious of ideas. A healthy democracy should be able to withstand the challenge of a marketplace of ideas and their non-violent expression. What has happened is that Trump's statements have galvanized support against his views. The protests spread through many teams and places over the weekend with some kneeling and others standing arm in arm, including players, coaches, trainers and owners. I suspect that this will continue through this week and beyond. Trump's words have had the exact opposite impact he wanted.

Trump has a lot of things to worry about: Florida and Texas and Puerto Rico hurricane reconstruction, North Korea, Iran, his pal Putin, and of course the Mueller investigation. I believe that he deliberately causes this drama to distract from other issues, especially the investigation. He thrives on chaos, lies, and attention-seeking, especially if that attention feeds his ego.

Topic Have you ever experienced racism?
Posted 25 Sep 2017 09:12

Yes. I am a member of a religious minority. I have been taken aback a number of times by how casual people were with their bigoted remarks and jokes. I don't let things like that pass without responding.

I also experienced some remarks and behaviour growing up in another part of my country.