Forum posts made by rafael

Topic FOSTA/SESTA: A Danger To Trafficking Victims, Consensual Sex Workers and Their Fans
Posted 19 Apr 2018 06:03

Great post Philu

I thought this would happen sooner or later.

But really you two - come back to the God thread where your antics are kind of understood.

See you there :-)



Topic FOSTA/SESTA: A Danger To Trafficking Victims, Consensual Sex Workers and Their Fans
Posted 18 Apr 2018 03:07

I'm worried about you, dude. You've done that much boot-licking in this thread you could be coming down with shoe polish poisoning.



Now now

these sorts of things can be noticed but must not be commented upon



Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 15 Apr 2018 21:17



That's because I'm not an atheist. Atheism in the truest form is to believe in nothing. I believe that there is something that ties us all together, in particular our ability to reason and not act like animals driven only by our instincts. Tht's why I don't refer to myself as an atheist, I'm a humanist hello2

I thought atheism referred to an individual's opinion about whether or not god exists?

I think perhaps what you are implying is that there are atheists who are not humanists.

perhaps there are theists who are not humanists too?

Topic 18 EU States and over 24 countries expelling Russian Diplomats after Salisbury Assasination attempt.
Posted 15 Apr 2018 03:12

Russia is now saying the OPCW report left out details about a western developed nerve agent found in samples provided by the UK

Topic 18 EU States and over 24 countries expelling Russian Diplomats after Salisbury Assasination attempt.
Posted 13 Apr 2018 05:06

I am no fan of Putin's vile regime.

I just picked this up from the Guardian:

foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, quote

“We have irrefutable evidence that this was another staged event, and that the secret services of a certain state that is now at the forefront of a Russophobic campaign was involved in this staged event,” he said during a press conference.

He did not indicate what the evidence is but it seems Britain is not only being accused of framing Russia in the nerve agent incident - but also helping to arrange a chemical attack in Syria.

It looks like Trump is back pedalling from his initial position - clearly way out of his depth on this one.






Topic 18 EU States and over 24 countries expelling Russian Diplomats after Salisbury Assasination attempt.
Posted 13 Apr 2018 00:05

And Russia have pointed out that the formula for Novichok is in the public domain.

It could have been made in any part of the world.

Of course - this isnt something that can be made with high school chemistry set apparatus.

Topic 18 EU States and over 24 countries expelling Russian Diplomats after Salisbury Assasination attempt.
Posted 11 Apr 2018 08:25



Some did actually, others were very unclear about the fact that they were not dead yet. I've seen it on multiple occasions in Dutch media at least.

That is odd - as the UK government has been quite clear about their condition from the start.

I see that Russia is kicking up a huge stink because Yulia has been taken to a secure location and they want to see her - maybe leave a small trace of novichok on her sleeve to finish the job.

Understandably - the UK is not complying with requests to access.

Topic 18 EU States and over 24 countries expelling Russian Diplomats after Salisbury Assasination attempt.
Posted 10 Apr 2018 23:58




Yes, not know who to believe as always.
Now media saying Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, not dead.

It's all a big messy thing I think.

It seems both father and daughter will recover.

I think it is likely that the Skirpals will be sent to another secret part of the world with new identities to live out their lives. If, as seems likely, it was an assassination attempt, it failed - but whoever was behind it may try again. So I cant see that either father or daughter will want to risk living their lives as they did before and give the assassin another opportunity.




Topic 18 EU States and over 24 countries expelling Russian Diplomats after Salisbury Assasination attempt.
Posted 09 Apr 2018 07:06

Russian Government hasn't responded after the Nerve Agent, which killed Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia , in Salisbury, England,
was traced back to Russian KGB stockpiles.

EU States, and over 24 countries confiscating Premier Putin's personal finances, government holdings,
closing Russian military bases access, and expelling Russian diplomats today.

OK so it may have been a failed assassination attempt. They live and seem to be getting better.

The russian govt has responded - accusing the UK of trying to frame Russia ahead of the world cup.

The UK govt is saying there is no other plausible explanation other than Russian state involvement and their allies back this view.

I dont know the truth but I am very happy to hear the Yulia and her father are getting better.

However - there have been previous cases of nerve agent accidents in which people initially recovered and died 1 or 2 years later. I do hope their recovery is long term.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 03 Apr 2018 23:25

No, I'm a humanist. Unlike some atheists, I don't believe that nothing matters and we're free to do what we want. Humans can be good simply out of empathy and wanting to be good people, they don't necessarily need to forced through fear of punishment, or the promise of rewards. Hopefully if there is some kind of deity, then he, she, it, they or whatever will recognize the good in people regardless of whether they believe in them or not. And that is my My 2 cents

I have never met an atheist with these beliefs.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 01 Apr 2018 08:52

There is no proof of a God. That’s why it’s called Faith. The way I look at it I’ve got nothing to lose. If I do believe, I’m covered either way when I die. If I don’t believe and there IS a God, I’m prolly in a spot of bother.

Your way of looking at this is known as Pascal's wager - very nicely articulated if I may say.


Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 31 Mar 2018 23:48


Even though you think highly of Quantum Theory, and I suppose Einstein's General Relativity Theory also, don't both have limitations? And doesn't the fact that the Standard Model - the best theory humans have - describes less that 5% of what we have evidence for shine a harsh light the God of the Gaps criticism?

no it does not - because however little we do know - we cannot substitute that empty space of ignorance with god as an explanation for undiscovered understanding and knowledge.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 31 Mar 2018 23:45



All three statements you quoted are truth claims.
The third asserts that the second is true.
The second asserts that the claim made by the first (how useful a god may or may not be) has no bearing on whether any god exists.
The first was presented in opposition to one line of argument supporting the idea that God exists (the Watchmaker hypotesis) by claiming that such a God quite a useless God to believe in.

Your assessment of the three truth claims is correct. Your initial impression, that the second contradicts the first, also has validity insofar as the first is an attempt to claim that the Watchmaker hypothesis Seax presented is invalid by by claiming that such a God is useless, while the second asserts as true that a claim of utility has no bearing on whether God exists.

No - it is not that at all.

In no way does my suggestion that a watchmaker god who walks away necessarily be a "useless" god invalidate the watchmaker claim.

It only suggests that god is useless to theists who believe in the various qualities I have outlined and I clearly indicated the POV.

The second statement is clearly in harmony with the first but good try.



Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 31 Mar 2018 13:15



And if true, it makes the first statement false.

If the first syatement "would be quite a useless god to believe in" is false, then you're saying that it isn't true. So you're saying that "A god that one cannot pray to, blame, call on in times of trouble, forgive ones sins, look after and protect one, bestow on one an afterlife of bliss after a well earned life of good deeds would NOT be a useless god to believe in."

But your second statement says thats's false, which leads to an infinite regression of true then false.

Your logic is faulty.

Which makes what you're saying meaningless.

The second statement merely points out that truth does not depend on what we find acceptable or not.

as for the rest of what you say I cant decipher it.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 31 Mar 2018 12:18



Contradiction within minutes, or perhaps the second point renders the first one meaningless. Yes. I think that that's better than saying they're contradictory.

Just mutually meaningless.

wrong once again

the second statement is true

the first statement is an opinion I would imagine many would agree with

next!

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 31 Mar 2018 08:16



If the great watchmaker does or did exist, I doubt He/She/It would give either of the above criteria more than a passing thought

and how useful a god may be or how palatable has no bearing on whether any god exists.

there may be a prime mover who moved away.

would there be any point in worshipping such a god? if nobody is listening to your prayers - and if there is no afterlife. what would the point be?

but man has generally invented useful gods. and why not. if you are going to believe in something it might as well be something from which you can derive some perceived benefit, either in this life or the next.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 31 Mar 2018 07:03

A Deist would say it doesn't matter.

Deists believe in God as a great watchmaker who, having created the universe and started it up, laid it down on the bench and moved off to deal with something else and hasn't really had much to do with it since.

So is there a God? If He/She/It doesn't have much if any interaction with our universe, does it matter?

That's a good question.

Belief or faith in god, for many theists, is probably more than settling the question of how the creation started and developed. It's a spiritual matter concerned with living a good life and at least as important - what happens in the life beyond this life if indeed one exists.

But what if, as you suggest - a god made the watch and left it ticking with no further involvement? That must be a possibility. But it contradicts what many theists believe - and is hence not palatable.

A god that one cannot pray to, blame, call on in times of trouble, forgive ones sins, look after and protect one, bestow on one an afterlife of bliss after a well earned life of good deeds

would be quite a useless god to believe in.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 31 Mar 2018 05:57



Ehm, I wouldn't want to claim that my standards of accepting what is evidence are more rigorous than those of theists like Francis Collins or George Coyne . I'm just a guy who likes to discuss things like religion and science online while they're religious and actually do/did science.


Interestingly, Time hosted a debate between R Dawkins and Collins in 2006. http://inters.org/Dawkins-Collins-Cray-Science

The debate between the two is rather predictable, however, I quote Collins after Dawkins pointed out that God would be at least as improbable as a finely tuned universe:

My God is not improbable to me. He has no need of a creation story for himself or to be fine-tuned by something else. God is the answer to all of those "How must it have come to be" questions.

and there you have it - god of the gaps.

Collins may well be a well regarded geneticist - but he is no less prone to accepting a grand idea on faith alone than a third grader at sunday school.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 31 Mar 2018 02:49



Ehm, I wouldn't want to claim that my standards of accepting what is evidence are more rigorous than those of theists like Francis Collins or George Coyne . I'm just a guy who likes to discuss things like religion and science online while they're religious and actually do/did science.


I am sorry if I gave you more credit than you are due.

Yes - there are notable and respected scientists who believe in god and i have no doubt that in their fields of research their methods are exceptionally rigorous.

But their belief in god is not different from that of any other theist and Collins faith rests on his conversion experience - what followed is an attempt to rationalise this new found faith with the facts, trodding the well worn path of faith and science reconciled.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 30 Mar 2018 23:47


I've done some reading on this and I've noticed that paradigms and their shifts are most common in the hard sciences, less so in the social sciences, and least common in society at large. Any guesses why?

The idea that noll, an atheist, would as you say, "see" certain facts in a different light from a theist like me makes plenty of sense now that I'm sensitive to the impact our different POVs can have on how we interpret those facts.

In that sense, I guess I've experienced a kind of paradigm shift.

In other words - his standards of accepting what is evidence are much more rigorous than a theist.

A theist may see evidence of god's existence in the complexity of the human eye and take that on faith. A good critical thinker will investigate this complexity and assess the naturalistic and any other explanations before arriving at an opinion - he may arrive at no opinion and say - I am not sure or I dont know or there is not enough evidence.

If being an open minded critical thinker is a paradigmatic position, I plead guilty - as I am sure Nolls does.

No you have not experienced a paradigmatic shift - all you have understood is the obvious which is that we all have a POV from which we look at or consider anything at all.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 30 Mar 2018 00:04



It looks like you're seeing things that aren't there. And I'm not referring to God.

Ah but according to PC you are not only dishonest, put forward minority views as if they are majority views and also prefer to believe in universes other than our own.

Your critical thinking skills are also hampered by your atheist mindset and in fact, your non belief in god is rationally no more sound than a theists position.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 26 Mar 2018 04:44

Which one ? ? ?

any god that you have either a belief or disbelief about.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 26 Mar 2018 02:58

Paradigms, POV

how do you explain people who switch their position 180?

a confirmed believer - after exhaustive and soul searching investigation - becomes an atheist

or an atheist - who is persuaded by the fine tuning argument that god exists

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 25 Mar 2018 10:13


Other than your admission of intentionally biasing the data to support your argument?

Sorry sweetie, I call bs



now for that - my admissions of guilt are all yours.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 25 Mar 2018 09:40


Pull the other leg sweetie. That one's got bells on.

There is nothing there about me misrepresenting data.

Find my original post - I actually specifically qualified my statement and was open about confining my comments to the judeo christian tradition. That is argument based on selective data. What is claimed is true for that data set - but not relevant for the other - and I had no wish to make claims about eastern religion as I dont know much about those traditions.

so there was no misrepresentation.

and neither me nor Noll are guilty of the dishonesty you accuse us of.

why dont we draw a line under it and move on with this debate - I am still very much interested in the god question which is why I keep visiting this thread.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 25 Mar 2018 09:03


Can't get over being called out for intentionally misrepresenting the data, can you?

I beg your pardon?

to what are you referring, precisely?

I never mis-represented anything.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 25 Mar 2018 08:49

I have no problem with people who believe in God. Unless they do stupid shit like this:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Bde0LkCdCJo

And yes, that would be stupid for any other reason as well of course.

i suppose she proved her point



Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 25 Mar 2018 08:28



Not entirely sure what you're referring to.

I was referring to your exchange with another poster who made the following statement about our existence being a

"decidedly improbable fact"

If the universe had not possessed the characteristics of the universe which is here and now - it would have possessed another set of characteristics equally improbable

whether another set of unknown circumstances would have brought any living thing into existence is impossible to determine.

On this basis I think talking about probability in relation to a unique (as far as we know) event that has already happened, is pretty much meaningless.



Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 25 Mar 2018 02:32





Btw, we don't really know whether there are no other combinations of these parameters possible that would allow human existence, as our knowledge/science is based on the current set.


Just adding to your point to correct something I saw in another post - in order to cite probability when discussing the existence of life in the universe - we need data from more than one set.

We only have one set of data - one example.

So declaring that our existence is a "decidedly improbable fact" must be wrong.

Our existence is a fact, neither probable nor improbable.

Topic do you believe in God?
Posted 25 Mar 2018 01:59

My belief in God is a topic I hope to discuss with Him at the end of my final day of mortality.

However, I can say with all sincerity, I do NOT believe in religion.

what evidence do you have that religion doesnt exist?