Correct comma placement in speech.

I've always struggled with the finer points of punctuation, so I would like some advice. I have had rejects a few times for correct comma placement. I was told this is correct [ 'Let's do it,' she said. ] However my MS office grammar check said this [ 'Let's do it', she said. ] So which is correct please?

In English, put the comma (like every other punctuation) inside the quotation marks.

"Like this!" the author exclaimed.

"Like this?" the author asked.

"Like this," the author said.

If only other languages were that nice and consistent T.T

Thank you, in which case I take issue with the Microsoft developers.

Download Grammarly.

It's not always right but it's free and really helps with fiddly punctuation rules. I avoided it forever because all the things they advertised would have annoyed me, such as 'word suggestions' or 're-writing for clarity'.

Then I tried it and found out all the features I would have hated you have to pay for, so I love the free version!

I've never seen the punctuation outside the quotation. I agree with Rowan, get Grammarly free. I have also Googled comma usage several times and there are plenty of great tutorials on the Internet.

Now... if anyone ever figures out how to punctuate poetry... let me know. 😊

I think there is a history to this which is summarized in this that I copied from the internet:

British English puts commas and periods (full stops) outside the quotation marks unless the quotation is also a complete sentence or the punctuation is part of the quotation.

• The UWSC says that British people write it "this way".

American English puts commas and periods inside the quotation marks.

• The UWSC says that American people write it "this way."

For me as an Australian, most of my writing and spelling rules are based on British rather than American. Yet I would always punctuate speech the American way with the full stop (yes we don't call them periods) inside the double (another difference is that British often use single quote marks c/f Harry Potter) quote marks.

I am not sure that British writers have or indeed still do punctuate speech that way, certainly my copy of Harry Potter has the full stop inside the punctuation marks, as does Pride and Prejudice (but of course Jane might have been 'corrected' in latter edits of the book.)

Anyway I think its fair to say whatever the origins, accepted practice now is as Cydia has suggested. In my Word document, I can set the language to Australian (or British or American,) so that might be the issue with your MS office grammar check (as an aside I have to set my keyboard to American not UK or some keys particularly @ are in a different place.)

Quote by KimmiBeGood
I agree with Rowan, get Grammarly free. I have also Googled comma usage several times

Grammarly is good but not infallible on comma issues I've found. I haven't paid for the upgrade and always wonder what suggestions they are keeping from me. Again I can set Grammarly to Australian so I'm not outraged by their spelling suggestions - of course colour and savour have a 'u' in them, and ass is a donkey-like animal and not an arse.

Quote by CuriousAnnie

Grammarly is good but not infallible on comma issues I've found. I haven't paid for the upgrade and always wonder what suggestions they are keeping from me. Again I can set Grammarly to Australian so I'm not outraged by their spelling suggestions - of course colour and savour have a 'u' in them, and ass is a donkey-like animal and not an arse.

Thanks for this info. As my name suggest I am based in England and my Microsoft Office is set to English UK. However it is more important that the audience understand so therefore I shall adhere to the American standard.

I'm from the UK and I was always taught to place the punctuation for speech inside the speech marks. I can't remember if I was actually taught to use double inverted commas for speech, but I always have. So, I'm not sure where the UWSC get their info. If you read the article, I found it on the University of Nevada's website - https://www.unr.edu/writing-speaking-center/student-resources/writing-speaking-resources/british-american-english it's all over the place. In 2 sections it totally contradicts itself.

About speech marks it says:

• The UWSC says, 'This is how British people do it.'

Note, single inverts with the punctuation inside.

About punctuation it says:

• The UWSC says that British people write it "this way".

Note, double inverts with the punctuation outside.

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So for me if it's speech:

"I write like this," I said.

If I'm quoting a book or film title or something like that:

'Star Wars', would be quoted like that, single inverts with the punctuation outside.

---

Quote by UKbloke2022

Thanks for this info. As my name suggest I am based in England and my Microsoft Office is set to English UK. However it is more important that the audience understand so therefore I shall adhere to the American standard.

2 suggestions I would make.

Unless the story is based in the US, stick to British usage. There are plenty of British, Australian, New Zealanders, Canadians and other English speakers that default if not totally but mostly to the British dialect. A British friend who I edit for, writes all his stories based in the US, so I just change the language in LibreOffice (TBH I think I'm almost bilingual when it comes to the US dialect).

Have a (seems our forum doesn't like external links). I have it as an add-on to Opera and it is a final check for me before submission. It has its flaws too, it wants to use the Oxford comma and it doesn't understand that poetry doesn't need quite the same punctuation as prose.

Quote by kiteares

It's all over the place

It really isn't and also doesn't contradict itself.

The section at the top (of the UNR page) is about normal direct speech. In AE, you've often got double quotes, in BE usually single quotes - at Lush, either is fine, but be consistent - but the punctuation (comma, period) will always be inside the quotation marks.

Leia said, "I love you."

"I know," said Han.

Leia said, 'I love you, you wanker.'

'Blimey,' said Han.

It's never gonna be ["Rruuuuurrrr", wailed Chewie.] or ['Oh, never mind', C3PO sighed.]. The comma (or other punctuation) goes inside the quotation either way.

**
The section below that (on the UNR page) is about the style of quoting/reporting single words, which apparently is slightly different.

AE: Biden called this bill "total malarkey."

BE: Sunak called this bill "utter bollocks".

Period inside, full stop outside.

(Also note that no moderator here is going to send your story back because of AE/BE punctuation around reporting/quoting. The problem lies with dialogue formatting (see Leia & Han above) which, when done sloppily, makes it harder/impossible to know who's saying what, and also just doesn't look tidy.)

**
We often see commas outside of quotation marks because, in other languages, they actually do go outside of the quotation marks, e.g. in German ["Welch Unsinn", sagte Goethe.]. We often see ["Who are you?", he asked.](additional comma) because that's how it's done in other languages. Hence that confusion.

Unfortunately, some people infer from that that punctuation marks always go outside the quotation marks, so we get adventurous things like ["Where is the male G-spot"? Jeff wanted to know.] or even ["Have you seen my G-spot" asked Jeff?]. (Please don't do that.) (Also, it's up your butt, Jeff. Happy hunting!)

For what it matters, there is a reason I suffer problems with punctuation, but I won't lay it out here. Mostly I struggle with punctuation around speach. But THIS is one reason I am here, to improve. Bought a book on punctuation this week, I doubt I'll get it right 100% instantly, but so long as it becomes a rare thing I'll be happy.

Huh. I’m aware of many differences between American English and British English, but I had never noticed that BE puts punctuation outside the quotes like that. I’ll have to keep my eyes out for that.

I agree that non-American writers should not feel the need to follow the American convention just because much of the membership here is American. There are plenty of members from the British Isles, Australia, and other places where British English is the norm. Write they way you’re comfortable writing. Personally, I will keep following American conventions (including ass, color and aluminum) because I don’t pretend to be other than American, but I wouldn’t impose that on the rest of the world.

A great book to read is Mother tongue by Bill Bryson (the American travel writer). He goes into some of the reasons for differences between American English and British English, but one of the things that surprises some people, is there is such thing as an English and American dictionary. For what it matters I am going to be using the American convention purely because it saves confusion. Not because I think I have to conform and suit the American market, but more because as the majority of readers will be American, I should tailor my words towards them. However I will still spell colour with a U etc. All I ask is moderators remember that I'm English when writing.

One of the interesting things I’ve discovered writing is that I’m not aware that I’m writing “Australian.” Not a particular issue with punctuation where I tend to the traditional English rather than the nouveau American, but definitely with words. Fossick, frisson, bush (as in wilderness,) and many more. It’s an interesting question whether this ‘damages’ my writing reputation, like a new word can dump a reader out of a story. Lol, and then there’s the fact that Christmas is in summer and Halloween in spring, I tend to have to make those points in the story, which maybe is disconcerting. Lush is good compared to Literotica, which insists all should be American. But at least this gives me a writing topic, c/f Hannah and my story:

https://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-stories/butch-cassidy-and-the-vegemite-kid-1

which has fun with differences between the US and Australia.

If the UK put punctuation outside the quotes, it's news to me. I've always put them inside, and that's how I was taught at school. Interesting.

As for spelling, it depends. If I'm writing a piece set in America I might spell things that way and use more Americanisms or language constructs as a hack to help sell the setting, tone, mood or location.

Quote by CuriousAnnie

One of the interesting things I’ve discovered writing is that I’m not aware that I’m writing “Australian.” Not a particular issue with punctuation where I tend to the traditional English rather than the nouveau American, but definitely with words. Fossick, frisson, bush (as in wilderness,) and many more. It’s an interesting question whether this ‘damages’ my writing reputation, like a new word can dump a reader out of a story. Lol, and then there’s the fact that Christmas is in summer and Halloween in spring, I tend to have to make those points in the story, which maybe is disconcerting. Lush is good compared to Literotica, which insists all should be American. But at least this gives me a writing topic, c/f Hannah and my story:

https://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-stories/butch-cassidy-and-the-vegemite-kid-1

which has fun with differences between the US and Australia.

You definitely have an “accent” of sorts - I can tell you are Australian just reading you. Along with that little bit of James Joyce Irish in you, of course.

Yes, we can definitely tell you're writing "Australian," and we love it! Rather than hurting your reputation, I think it enriches your stories immensely. Even though I've enjoyed a number of Australian-set books (including Bryson's) and have some familiarity with Australianisms, I still have to look things up once in a while, and that is part of the fun. Your perspective is something I could never even attempt to reproduce (nor would I try to write from a British perspective). Please don't change. If Literotica is requiring people to write "American," I think that is extremely narrow-minded.

I agree, UKBloke2022, about Bryson's The Mother Tongue. It is absolutely the most informative book on the English language that I've ever read. Lots of great knowledge on how the Anglo-Saxon, Viking and Norman invasions influenced the language, sometimes in unexpected ways. It also provides some insights into how Australian and American accents came to be so different from the British, and not necessarily in the way that people might think.

Im dyslexic. Everyones writing looks strange. : (

Quote by GMOFLEISURE

Im dyslexic. Everyones writing looks strange. : (

Take heart so am I.