Perfecting the Craft vs. Lazy Writing?

Is it a sign of lazy writing, if one gets fixated on a certain idea/ fantasy and most of their writing is kind of different iterations or ways that fantasy/ idea can be written?

Like when does it become a style /brand/genre, vs, being a lazy writer or a writer who can only write one thing? Like formulaic writing of-- this happens, then this happens, then that happens, the end, and the only thing that changes is the names and maybe the backdrop of the world but everything else is the same.

As a Lush example if someone has a fantasy/kink and only wants to write on that, does that make them a lazy writer or is it like with other artists they are in a 'Blue Period' or a 'I really need to write these bondage kink stories out my system for a while ' as an erotica equivalent example? I am curious what other writers think about this.

Cos it's like how do you tell the difference between being pigeonholed as only writing this type of thing, and having a brand/ style to your work of 'oh they write really good bondage stories' or 'their style is like this' and it's because of the forty times they wrote a bondage story ( btw bondage is just an off the top of my head example) that is why they are ''highly recommended'' for readers to return to them, but if they change their mood and decide, oh, yknow what I want to write a few impact play stories now, are they a sell out cos they don't write bondage any more? Like when does it become 'jumping the shark' vs 'perfecting their craft' Thoughts???

Lee Child has basically written the same story forty odd times with Jack Reacher. But he's very good at it. So maybe he's perfected his craft that way? I don't consider him lazy, though the ideas are running thin now he's passed the mantle to another author.

E. L. James wrote a short series of paper thin and boring characters that was marketed very effectively to tap into a niche, but is a lazy writer, imo. Just something about the language and tone used, and the way it's very tell tell tell.

Each to their own, I guess. I try to write a little bit out of my comfort zone but I do tend to gravitate back to the ones I'm working out of my system. Or to the same theme, but with a different coat of paint, like my comp story I'm doing now. And I do go in phases. I had a bdsm phase, a cheating phase (both still ongoing lol) and a bad boy character phase when I first joined. Not sure if that makes me lazy or if I'm improving.

I'll throw in the odd curve ball to liven things up. Experiment. But I do know that many authors don't, and prefer to write to a formula, and are way more successful than I am at it. So there's something to be said for giving the audience what they expect, rather than trying to be too clever.

I am amazed and know not what to say. 🤔

Interesting question, Luce, and I had to think on it a bit. I think I’d have to know an author’s mindset to know if they were writing to a self-fav or fan-fav style vs just being lazy. I can see laziness maybe coming into play more if writing fan-favs. Just take same story and change setting and names to get another story out quickly so they can get those votes that they need to be happy. I don’t think in writing, repetition perfects your craft though. If you want to get better, try different things. Just my opinion.

That said, I don’t care what others do around here. It doesn’t affect what I’m doing.

I think it can be cool to be known as the author that always does this or that. Readers know before the first line what they’re gonna get. For me though, I’m looking to be surprised. So, I’m currently reading authors who give me the unexpected and are eclectic. Those are my fav authors right now. I also appreciate the effort, if I read something that I know took research for the author. Since WW commented above, I’ll use him as an example. I seriously doubt he was ever a drugged-out hippie, so I know his Woodstock comp story took a lot of research and made me want to read it all the more.

My opinion is that Recommended Reads, comp winners are given to stories with more original storylines, or the author took a common storyline and just blew it outta the park in some way. While readers seem to prefer the predictable. Both have their place.

I would say the break point is when the stories become interchangeable.

Someone perfecting the craft should have something about each story that makes it stand out, even if they keep going back to same well in terms of themes.

Whereas lazy writing would produce stories so cookie-cutter similar that they could be done using a template and judicious use of cut and paste and Find/Replace. IOW, stuff that could be done by an AI as easily as a human.

I have a penchant for having tropes in my stories. Sex in the woods is the current one. My previous one was older guys with much younger women, but that kind of died with my old profile.

But the stories I write using said trope will generally be distinct from one another, or I think so. The characters and their actions and motivations might be different or the role of the trope in the story might be different or whatever. So Heavenly Sinner, Letting Loose, and One Of The Wildfolk all have the "sex in the woods" trope but use it in different ways or to set up different situations.

That's not lazy writing. I put in the effort to make each stand out. But tropes in a writer's work can come about in a number of ways and are a legit part of writing.

Laziness comes when the entire story is just rehashed over and over.

Quote by KimmiBeGood
Recommended Reads, comp winners are given to stories with more original storylines, or the author took a common storyline and just blew it outta the park in some way. While readers seem to prefer the predictable. Both have their place.

This.

Lush is a site for wanking Attempts at making stories too high brow often miss the mark, like those crappy porn flicks that used to win AVN awards trying to force flimsy "plot" between the pink bits. Sometimes you don't want Goldilocks and the Three Au Pairs, but you do want Brandi's DeepThroat CockFest IV.

I would agree with WW and Kimmie, I think it depends on who you are writing for and why. I have a fairly large following fortunately, and they tend to expect certain things from my stories. If writing to entertain or arouse, it's a different approach than to a more involved and different story.

I see numerous writers here stretch their wings and try different genres, and others tend to stick with what is popular with their fans. Does that make them lazy writers? I don't think so, as it takes effort to create a new story even using a similar format, and that may be their preference. I think most of us tend to get into a binge or phase, then move on to something different. There are also trends that develop, possibly seasonal stories (Christmas, Halloween), or a genre that suddenly takes off (Noir, Vampires, Supernatural) - I think it's because writers become inspired by a story and put out their own versions.

Delving into unfamiliar territory and genres can be daunting, but also challenging and rewarding when it's done. Does it get as many views and comments? In most cases, no, but if you're writing to flex your mind and become better at it just putting it out there is a feat in itself.

Great question, Luce.

Someone much smarter than I am (Dostoevsky, maybe?) claimed that there are essentially only two plot lines in all fiction: 1) A stranger comes to town... or 2) A hero goes on a journey... Both of these boil down to a single common element: The status quo is about to get significantly fucked up and strange shit is gonna happen.

As many people have noted, variations on a handful of basic themes is typical of most authors. We've all got particular things that move us, and we have a tendency to keep returning to those things in our fiction - whether it's parental abandonment, bullying, loneliness and alienation, striving for success, lost love, whatever. That's the shit we really write about, even if we dress it up in eroticism. Given that this site focuses pretty exclusively on sex, the options are going to be even more limited. Every single one of my stories here is leading to a sex scene. But in my writing, hopefully, the unique journey to get there trumps the destination that every writer here has already visited (repeatedly). That's not laziness exactly, but genre convention. It's impossible to write a sex-story without some sense of sexuality, just like it's impossible to write a horror story without evoking fear and suspense, or a comedy story without a sense of humor. I’m not even sure it’s possible to tell a wholly original story these days. But it isn’t all that important, either. Don’t get hung up on plot. Instead, work on developing your craft, and you can apply it to any worn out plot-line to provide your fresh take on it. How many times has Romeo and Juliet or King Lear been rewritten over the centuries, for example? And most of Shakespeare’s stuff was ‘borrowed’ from other writers and historians of his time. Original plot is not why we still read Shakespeare. So, if it’s good enough for ‘The Bard’ who are you to say otherwise?

Lazy writing, in my opinion, is less about coming up with an original plot, and more about an over-reliance on cliches with a lack of character development, world-building, or attention to ‘voice’ (both narrator and in dialog). It’s not just retelling your own story over and over again, but retelling stories that have already been told a million times without adding anything to it to make it your own. It’s about a complete lack of empathy with the way that readers are likely to engage with the story. It’s about failing to build adequate suspense to justify the climax/payoff. It’s about ignoring details like character motivation and interiority. It’s about taking random detours from the plotline because actually rationally explaining why characters are doing the things they’re doing feels like too much work. It’s reducing characters to one-dimensional surface level attributes because you think 'horny' 'slutty' ‘stupid’ ‘evil’ or ‘crazy’ are adequate descriptors without going any deeper into what drives them. That’s lazy writing in my opinion.

Quote by WannabeWordsmith

This.

Lush is a site for wanking Attempts at making stories too high brow often miss the mark, like those crappy porn flicks that used to win AVN awards trying to force flimsy "plot" between the pink bits. Sometimes you don't want Goldilocks and the Three Au Pairs, but you do want Brandi's DeepThroat CockFest IV.

So someone like me who takes their writing a least semi-seriously should look elsewhere? Or say "Screw It" and write reams of plot and character free sex scenes? Your post reads as very cynical, which is kind of disheartening from a mod.

I always understood that Nicola's goal with Lush was to encourage higher quality erotic writing that went above stroke fodder, hence having judged comps and fairly strict story moderation. Perhaps the new ownership are moving away from that, which would be a concern for me.

Good news is that my fiction is getting a lot more reads and likes these days in spite of being a bit "high brow" (as in, paying attention to plot and character, sometimes at the expense of sex.)😉

Luce, this is a fabulous question, I love it.

I think I am something of a lazy writer, not with recurring themes. I have written an erotic story from the point of view of a piece of clothing! There are recurring themes because I like to explore them and only to a point.

It is the style I write them in that might be considered 'lazy'. It does not feel lazy when I write it, though. That is all I know, to be very honest. I think people expect this when I write something now. I have tried to spread my wings, and some people have commented, "That is not your usual style." When I read some stories back after months, I am very proud of them. It is as if, I do not recognise myself. That makes repeating how I did it very difficult.

I do like to write about different aspects of erotica or take a different slant of what people think the genre is and giving it a twist. This might win me friends or not. I have no idea who my audience is, but I am very encouraged by comments, these help me to persevere. I have discovered a new interest, and for this, I am very grateful that people appreciate my often nervous efforts.

One can guess what genre I typically write in from my screen name. That said, I do try to introduce new situations that allow for the description of both the setting and the sexy bits to be both new and entertaining. I think we all know the formulaic writers often being referred to here are either lazy or just interested in the votes (surprising as it may seem that they get so many!)

That said, I have recently started writing stories with a focus on particular kink often used in my stories, but now the focus of the story and I'm finding that rewarding ... a change of view/perspective. I don't think that will keep me from returning to genre that got me started though.

Quote by LuceDevlin

As a Lush example if someone has a fantasy/kink and only wants to write on that, does that make them a lazy writer or is it like with other artists they are in a 'Blue Period' or a 'I really need to write these bondage kink stories out my system for a while ' as an erotica equivalent example? I am curious what other writers think about this.

I like what you said here. I tend to beat an idea into the ground, until I'm tired of it. Then I move on. It's like I'm trying to work something out in my head, and writing is the only way to do it. So you pound on an idea until something--who knows what?--gets resolved in your head and you can move on.

I literally wrote 54 BSDM stories as Verbal, with the same couple, and the same themes, over and over again. It wasn't lazy. Just repetitive. After awhile I was all written out about it.

Quote by Seeker4
So someone like me who takes their writing a least semi-seriously should look elsewhere

Jeez, you took that from a self-deprecating jape at my own writing?

Not everyone is here for plot. I was supportimg Kimmi's point that sometimes it's nice to just dive straight into a hot scene.

I'm glad we have high quality stories here in both styles, and then some. That's what gives Lush the edge for me over other sites.

What if it is a format that calls to you? I have written Micros exclusively for several years now. With 175 done and 99% with a lesbian slant, it does seem narrow and repetitive in nature, but I hope not lazy as proposed. I work hard making each distinct in character and action, something fully story-like, not a sex scene transcription. I hope that would overcome the "Right, here comes another" but I'm not sure it does most days.

I have written some longer pieces in a similar lesbian vein, but those did begin to feel repetitive, so stopped. Having no desire to dance hetero or embrace many of the category kinks, I settled into the Micro sandbox, where I can build my little castles.

Quote by kistinspencil

What if it is a format that calls to you? I have written Micros exclusively for several years now. With 175 done and 99% with a lesbian slant, it does seem narrow and repetitive in nature, but I hope not lazy as proposed. I work hard making each distinct in character and action, something fully story-like, not a sex scene transcription. I hope that would overcome the "Right, here comes another" but I'm not sure it does most days.

I have written some longer pieces in a similar lesbian vein, but those did begin to feel repetitive, so stopped. Having no desire to dance hetero or embrace many of the category kinks, I settled into the Micro sandbox, where I can build my little castles.

This is kind of what I am getting at. Like what you describe sounds like you are more of developing a 'writer's brand' of being a writer that writes lesbian and/or micro-stories on purpose. I'm wondering where it becomes that vs. being a writer who can ONLY write a certain thing cos they are either too lazy to imagine anything else or don't want to imagine anything else. Or aren't experienced enough to feel they can write anything else or whatever the reason. That is specifically different than saying I want to be an erotica writer that only writes this kind of erotic content, so I am gonna write and share this kind of content and gather an audience/following that likes this content that I want to write and feel there should be more of or that I enjoy writing cos it turns me on and other people may be turned on by it to ..etc.

I will be honest I hadn't considered format so that is a good point. I was thinking mostly about the plot because while I sense I may have a growing reputation of some sort on Lush - after I started entering competitions before then it felt like very few people knew I was here lol - I have a long list of stories on my to-be-written queue and I am concerned at the similarity of some of the ideas and wonder if I am either getting lazy or if there is an idea that I need to write a few times before I get it the way I want as it were OR maybe it is just that whole ' a picture is worth a thousand words' adage, yeah? If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a concept or idea/ fantasy is - at least according to Lush - worth ten thousand, right? And maybe it's not just ten thousand words, but ten thousand iterations or interpretations of how that concept/idea/fantasy can be depicted or described/written?

Quote by WannabeWordsmith
Jeez, you took that from a self-deprecating jape at my own writing?

Yeah, I'm sorry. Was in a cruddy mood (still am a lot of the time) and kind of took it out on you.

I wouldn’t necessarily use the word ‘lazy’, but I have seen authors who have absolutely astounding output of very similar stories. There are some stories here that hundreds of parts and a couple thousand words each. I find the unengaging because it feels like it’s spinning it’s wheels after so many chapters. It can be done, no doubt. But it’s a challenge.

One way to look at this is refinement. Other way is to look at it as a fixation which doesn’t necessarily improve. There’s a place for that though. I have comfort shows I’ve watched dozens of times.

Quote by RowanThorn

I wouldn’t necessarily use the word ‘lazy’, but I have seen authors who have absolutely astounding output of very similar stories. There are some stories here that hundreds of parts and a couple thousand words each. I find the unengaging because it feels like it’s spinning it’s wheels after so many chapters. It can be done, no doubt. But it’s a challenge.

One way to look at this is refinement. Other way is to look at it as a fixation which doesn’t necessarily improve. There’s a place for that though. I have comfort shows I’ve watched dozens of times.

Also a good point! I do the same with comfort shows, and Refinement is a good word!

True stories, or at least stories based on my experiences, come naturally to me and are easy to write, but I also believe that this makes me a lazy writer. So, in an effort to push myself, I began a series that readers requested as a fictional continuation of my partially true story, hoping to improve my writing and demonstrate my creativity by ticking off as many different Lush categories as I could with these series, and that drives the plot. However, my true stories are far more popular.

There can come a point in writing a story where I start to bore myself. I find it remarkable that I could plough on and churn out a story regardless, though I can’t imagine it would be worth reading. I’m sure many of us have a trail of unfinished stories in our wake that we’ve left alone because we find ourselves just going through the motions. Occasionally, I might go back and, on reading an abandoned tale, realise I’d missed the actual basis of the story, pick it up again with a new understanding, and produce something I think is worthy of putting out there (though what do I know?). But I’m never sure what’s lazy, dropping a story because I’m uninspired by it or ploughing on and trying to discover whether it has something. Sometimes, I think lazy and wasteful is good. Perhaps if I had less stamina for ploughing on through the doldrums of writing, my stories might be better.

Hmmm.... I wouldn't say getting fixated on a certain thing makes one lazy. A one trick pony, maybe, surely. Doing the same thing in different ways, at least when it looks like improvement or some sort of innovation, is not really the bad thing you make it sound like. But I think those people can get stuck just doing the one thing, then it's not so much laziness still, but stagnation. The key probably lies in the stories, all the same thing on the basis, but what's inside. Steven King only writes horror, but I'm sure few books could be said to be just like the others. In a way any of this could be pidgeonholed, but they do it to themselves, anything else is "too hard" or whatever excuse.

I wouldn't say trying something new is jumping the shark, at least as far as the new being something different; going from bondage to watersports, or whatever. Perfecting the craft goes as far as ones mental conception, but is that perfecting ones own craft, or doing something that changes the entire thing as a whole? At some point a subject will be exhausted, at least with their own personal creative attempts, but I guess that depends on how flexable a certain thing is, and how specific a subject is. Bondage and Watersports seems like two narrow themes, while say, Lesbian, as the other user mentioned; so much can be done with that.

Quote by M_K_Babalon
Bondage and Watersports seems like two narrow themes

On the surface, maybe, because they are specific in nature compared to the more general term you cited. I'm still finding creative ways to explore bondage, and don't feel I've exhausted the well yet.

Quote by M_K_Babalon

Hmmm.... I wouldn't say getting fixated on a certain thing makes one lazy. A one trick pony, maybe, surely. Doing the same thing in different ways, at least when it looks like improvement or some sort of innovation, is not really the bad thing you make it sound like. But I think those people can get stuck just doing the one thing, then it's not so much laziness still, but stagnation. The key probably lies in the stories, all the same thing on the basis, but what's inside. Steven King only writes horror, but I'm sure few books could be said to be just like the others. In a way any of this could be pidgeonholed, but they do it to themselves, anything else is "too hard" or whatever excuse.

I wouldn't say trying something new is jumping the shark, at least as far as the new being something different; going from bondage to watersports, or whatever. Perfecting the craft goes as far as ones mental conception, but is that perfecting ones own craft, or doing something that changes the entire thing as a whole? At some point a subject will be exhausted, at least with their own personal creative attempts, but I guess that depends on how flexable a certain thing is, and how specific a subject is. Bondage and Watersports seems like two narrow themes, while say, Lesbian, as the other user mentioned; so much can be done with that.

Hm, I feel your use of the term 'jumping the shark' reads a bit off?? To quote/copy paste from Wikipedia - Jumping the shark is a negative term "used to argue that a creative work or entity has reached a point in which it has exhausted its core intent and is introducing new ideas that are discordant with, or an extreme exaggeration of, its original purpose."

But yeah 'stagnation' is an interesting word, tho, I feel like if someone is stagnant, they wouldn't be writing at all? But like also, Bondage and Watersports have alot in common when you strip it down to the base emotions of both of them. They are both about 'tension' and 'release' which is the core of most erotic things and writing in my opinion. You build tension via foreplay and dialog etc. and then it builds to a release or climax. In bondage and watersports case, the release of the binds, or release of the hold in watersports 'case. But like that's kind of why I am asking the question cos when you boil things down as much as they can to the carnal forces of the matter, it borders on being 'formulaic' in a way. But at the same time its like how do you separate 'formulaic' from 'framework' like sentence structure is a framework, grammar is a framework, the plot diagram that some people learn in school, is a framework of exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, resolution, but the fun can be to do things out of order, but then it tips the scales in a way of being 'experimental' 'esoteric' or 'avant-garde' and thereby only reaching a very niche audience if any audience at all..

I feel I may have digressed a tiny bit, but yeah. I'm pleased many people have weighed in on the topic/question, as it has been on my mind a lot and it is helpful to hear other people's thoughts/ opinions/viewpoints etc.