Random Theory

3 Oct 2013

This is a 'not-so-serious' interrogation that occurred to me, so feel free to discuss casually about it. The forums have been quite boring lately so...

Here's the thing :

A short while ago I was chatting with a male friend of mine. He told me about a 'funny' thing that happened to him at work :

- Some of his female coworkers met in a bar to chat casually about various things (ladies only)

- At some point, they started rating the physical appearance of their male coworkers

- The next day, one of those ladies, being good friends with my friend, revealed the 'results' of this gossip to him

Now the funny thing is this : the ladies rated his physical attractiveness the same as he would have rated theirs. For example, the ladies that he personally would have rated a 4/10 rated him 4/10, those that he would have rated a 6/10 rated him 6/10, etc.

I should add that this male friend is fairly good looking, maybe a 7.5/10 (where 5/10 would be considered average) ; 5'11" or so, slim physique, blond hair, decent face, no major flaws, etc.

He and I discussed about this in a semi-serious intellectual conversation and tried to make sense of this. We made up different theories that more or less all led to the same conclusions. These random theories were :

- Even though some women perceived him objectively as a 7.5/10, they had a hard time admitting that he was more handsome than they were, not to feel/appear needy or insecure. This is a bit like saying : "Well he wouldn't desire me, but I don't care, as I don't desire him either".

- The women were sincere about their votes, but the same underlying logic applied : "He wouldn't desire me, so I don't desire him either". Maybe this is a 'natural/instinctive' reaction when facing potential mates, and that women (or even men) feel more attracted to people that they consider in their 'realistic range' of partners. I also tend to believe that attraction is often a reciprocal phenomenon, and that people are generally more attracted to persons that show some attraction toward them too.

So what's your opinion about this? This discussion is opened to both genders, but I'd be particularly interested to hear women's opinion.

Do you have a hard time admitting that a man is more desirable than you?

Do you generally feel more attracted to men that have a status/appearance similar to yours?

Could you possibly be attracted to a man that you believe wouldn't desire you much?

Thanks and have fun!

3 Oct 2013

this is why i rate everyone a 10/10. biggrin

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

3 Oct 2013

Quote by sprite
this is why i rate everyone a 10/10.

Oh! You! And this is why everyone rates you a 1000/10! Hugs

3 Oct 2013

Quote by sprite
this is why i rate everyone a 10/10.

You told me I was a 9, because it was your favorite number, meaning it was better than a ten. Embarassed

3 Oct 2013

Quote by Poppet
You told me I was a 9, because it was your favorite number, meaning it was better than a ten.

Maybe she meant 9/9?

3 Oct 2013

Quote by SereneProdigy

Maybe she meant 9/9?

actually, i meant 9/8 (no, i DIDN"T do well in math!) smile

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

3 Oct 2013

Quote by sprite
actually, i meant 9/8 (no, i DIDN"T do well in math!)

Am I still nine to you? *whimpers and nuzzles into you*

3 Oct 2013

Quote by sprite
actually, i meant 9/8 (no, i DIDN"T do well in math!)

A hot nerdy girl I once flirted with told me my level of attractiveness was equal to :

It took me nights to figure it out, but the result it gave me was 9,3711. That's quite awesome. Now I need to call her back. She told me her phone number was equal to :

I ended up with a 17 digits number : 1-898- . I don't understand. Either she's living overseas or she's messing up with me badly. I read all of the following books to help me analyze the situation, and finally opted for the former conclusion. What a relief! This girl is such a challenge... I love it!

Erwin, Edward, Philosophy and Psychotherapy: Razing the Troubles of the Brain (Perspectives on Psychotherapy, Vol. 1), Sage Pubns, 1997
Fairbairn, Gavin J., Contemplating Suicide: The Language and Ethics of Self Harm (Social Ethics and Policy), Routledge, 1995
Fingarette, Herbert Heavy Drinking: The Myth of Alcoholism as a Disease University of California Press 1989
Friedman, Joel and Marcia Mobilia Boumil, Betrayal of Trust: Sex and Power in Professional Relationships, Bergin & Garvey, 1996
Gallagher, Shaun, The Inordinance of Time (Studies in Phenomenology and Existential Philosophy), Northwestern University Press, 1998
Geyer, R. F., and D. R. Schweitzer, eds., Theories of alienation: critical perspectives in philosophy and the social sciences, Leiden, Nijhoff, 1976
Glass, James Shattered Selves: Multiple Personality in a Postmodern World Cornell U.P., Ithaca, 1994
Glass, James M., Psychosis and Power: Threats to Democracy in the Self and the Group, Cornell University Press, 1995
Grubb, Andrew, (Editor), Decision-Making and Problems of Incompetence, John Wiley & Sons, 1994

4 Oct 2013

See people... thread-jacking my own thread. That's how it's done! glasses8

Now please, let's have a serious discussion about the original post...

4 Oct 2013

Your coworker who happened to overhear this conversation also picked up on them being reluctant to admit that they gave low ratings to compensate for their own perceived inferiority??

Anyhoo, to answer your own question, yes...we've all been attracted to people who we perceive as out of our league. At least I know I have. It really happens to the best (and the worst) of us. But once you assume someone is too good for you, then you've already made them unattainable.

We struggle with insecurities that make us wonder how someone we consider really attractive would ever want us. And I'm sure this causes people to downplay that person just to soften the blow, I guess.

But I'm of a mind that I can have pretty much anyone I want as long as they're available and the time/setting is right. I don't say this out of conceit or a false sense of confidence. I just think anyone truly worth my time and effort would give me a chance. I don't focus energy and attention on someone who doesn't want me. It's really a waste of time. So if I have been attracted to or wanted someone that didn't want me back, I moved on. And I can do this without finding flaws in that person just to make me feel better about myself.

And as far as attraction as a whole goes, I've never looked at someone's attraction in comparison to my own. I wouldn't even know how to go about doing that...and it sounds kinda miserable. Going around looking for someone 'good enough' for me, and all that such nonsense.

"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall

4 Oct 2013

Quote by slipperywhenwet2012
Your coworker who happened to overhear this conversation also picked up on them being reluctant to admit that they gave low ratings to compensate for their own perceived inferiority??

I think you read it wrong. I don't work with any of these people myself. And my friend wasn't in the bar either when the ladies had that conversation. He's simply good friends with one of the girls that took part in this gossip, and she reported all of this to him.

The whole 'theories' were made up casually by my friend and I when facing the 'facts'. We have no idea if the women looked sincere when they gave their rating. We were not taking this too seriously actually, and maybe women don't always rate guys that way, but we still found this interesting and I do tend to somehow believe in the 'theories' we reached and that I presented.

Quote by slipperywhenwet2012
Anyhoo, to answer your own question, yes...we've all been attracted to people who we perceive as out of our league. At least I know I have. It really happens to the best (and the worst) of us. But once you assume someone is too good for you, then you've already made them unattainable.

We struggle with insecurities that make us wonder how someone we consider really attractive would ever want us. And I'm sure this causes people to downplay that person just to soften the blow, I guess.

I agree with this entirely. I'm not a model or anything myself, but I do look 'kinda good' and sometimes girls that were obviously less attractive than me were overly mean/cold with me for no apparent reason. I still might have given them a chance romatically/sexually (though that was rarely the reason why I interacted with them in the first place), but it seemed like they shunned me even before I talked to them. Maybe this was a way for them to 'protect' themselves, as if saying : "Don't tease me you jerk. You and I both know this is not gonna lead to anything". Or as I've mentionned in my original post : "You won't desire me, so I'll make sure not to desire you either not to feel at your mercy".

I'm not a manipulative teaser at all, but generally they adopted this hostile attitude even before I talked to them, so they couldn't know. And yes, I often feel like they're downplaying/devaluing me when this happens. For women, I think the most common flaw they attribute to men in this situation is him being arrogant/pretentious/superficial. Worthy/handsome males are often self-confident, so it's easy to make such a claim.

The same applies to males actually. Men might not reject a hot lady as easily because of their overall 'sexual stupidity' (I should copyright this term!), and might not act as mean, but they too often devalue women when they get rejected. For them, the usual label they attribute is the girl being slutty/heartless/manipulative. One moment she's a hot heavenly beauty, the next she's an evil provocative bitch.

To me that attitude is often a way bigger turn-off than their physical flaws. Like you said, "once you assume someone is too good for you, then you've already made them unattainable". Strangely enough, girls that were more 'in my league' never adopted this attitude with me. Some played 'hard-to-get', but that's a different attitude ; in that case they were more 'arrogant' than 'mean', and more 'manipulative' than 'hostile'.

I should add that not all the girls that were 'below my league' reacted like this. Only a few of them. But it still happened.

Quote by slipperywhenwet2012
But I'm of a mind that I can have pretty much anyone I want as long as they're available and the time/setting is right. I don't say this out of conceit or a false sense of confidence. I just think anyone truly worth my time and effort would give me a chance. I don't focus energy and attention on someone who doesn't want me. It's really a waste of time. So if I have been attracted to or wanted someone that didn't want me back, I moved on. And I can do this without finding flaws in that person just to make me feel better about myself.

And as far as attraction as a whole goes, I've never looked at someone's attraction in comparison to my own. I wouldn't even know how to go about doing that...and it sounds kinda miserable. Going around looking for someone 'good enough' for me, and all that such nonsense.

Good for you, sincerely. This is all to your advantage. I'm practically the same ; I simply do my best each day to be a decent human being, friend, boyfriend, husband, fuckbuddy, etc. There's no one I really consider 'out of my league', and I surely don't take offense if what I am doesn't please a certain lady. If a girl is extremely career oriented and comes from a wealthy family, I won't consider her 'out of my league' for example ; we simply won't have the same vision about career/wealth.

4 Oct 2013

I think maybe guys mark more honestly. Generally if they see somebody they think stunning they'll still rate them high even when they think they've no chance of being with them. The strange thing is I've known plenty males and females, models included, that would rate 9.5 to 10 on most scales, who were quite lonely, they thought their looks intimidated others. Also beauty and attraction are subjective, one man's meat etc.

4 Oct 2013

Yeah, I think gender roles can affect these things to some degree.

Men have that chase and conquer kind of spirit and looks and status often doesn't dissuade them from at least trying. It's in their blood and they don't take it as personally as women do when they are rejected. That would in part explain how ugly old men with paunches and a nice sum of cash in the bank still feel completely justified in approaching 21 yr old models in bars and hitting on them hard. I just think *in general* men are more likely to try and try again and not take it as a huge ego-blow when they strike out. The onus has usually been on them to pursue and initiate things so they have to have thicker skin about it and are more likely to call it as it is.

Women, however, are usually not as likely as men to put it on the line and go after a guy they perceive they have no chance of being with. They tend to look for signs and signals and yeah, probably rate guys as lower as a bit of a self-protective measure. As well - whereas guys probably base their ratings strictly on the physical, I think women (especially the relationship-oriented types) are more likely to base their ratings on an overall impression that isn't just beauty-related but includes "oh, he's too vain, he's too metro, he's a player, look at his ego - bleh!" etc etc. Maybe they factor in details related to what they think the guy would be like as a prospective relationship and not just for sex. I think men are more likely to say "yeah she's a 9 out of 10, but she's a total headcase etc" because they're thinking yeah, she's nuts but they'd still fuck her at least once, whereas women that don't do casual sex, just tend to go for an overall impression score. With that score, they explain away reasons why they're not into him and don't find him appealing if they can't envision ever actually being with him or being desired by him.

I'm not the type to rate a hot guy as a 4 just because I don't think he'd give me the time of day, but then I'm maybe not as relationship-oriented as many other females. There are plenty of guys I'd rate as highly attractive - strictly as a sex thing. I have seen women talk-down a hot guy before based on the criticisms listed above though. I think it especially happens in a bar environment with single females that maybe aren't that confident... "Hey what about that guy - he's hot!" and invariably there will be a list of reasons why they have zero interest in him and don't think he's all that. I just think women are less likely to admit something if they foresee a dead end. Perhaps it's the social assumption that women, especially in a bar environment, should be able to get laid more easily *if* they want it, whereas guys have already prepared themselves for the hit and misses. Now *if* somehow that hot '4 out of 10' shows them a bit of interest or does some fun flirting, I have also witnessed that same girl form an -crush on him and turn into a starry-eyed school-girl pretty quick.

I dunno - just thinking out loud on potential theories. Haven't had coffee yet.

4 Oct 2013

Quote by dpw
I think maybe guys mark more honestly. Generally if they see somebody they think stunning they'll still rate them high even when they think they've no chance of being with them. The strange thing is I've known plenty males and females, models included, that would rate 9.5 to 10 on most scales, who were quite lonely, they thought their looks intimidated others. Also beauty and attraction are subjective, one man's meat etc.

I think this is true, also combined with what Dancing Doll said. Men may rate on a physical attractiveness only scale while women combine multiple factors in rating.

There are some guys who do get intimidated by a girl's looks, so it may prevent them from approaching. It also depends on the woman. For example, when I'm not smiling I look angry or standoffish, which isn't the case. I smile quite often, even at strangers as I pass them on the street or sidewalk or going in and out of the grocery store, etc. If a guy catches me in the one instance where I'm not smiling, he may deem me unapproachable. On the other hand, I've had guys spin that and use the 'You're too beautiful not to smile' approach. So again, it really does depend on what intimidates a guy.

So there are so many factors to consider such as setting, circumstances, personal preferences, etc. If a guy prefers blondes, then he's probably gonna have one reason or another to rate an attractive blonde higher than an equally attractive brunette.

I know it's a blow to any guy's ego to constantly strike out. But there's a reason they keep trying. Women aren't usually the ones to pursue men. At least not in they same ways they pursue us. So I'll always applaud a guy for at least having the confidence to approach me, even if I'm totally not interested...depending on his approach, of course.

Guys can also really ruin it for themselves. I hate cocky arrogance so much, and it's by far my biggest turn-off. There are guys who think so highly of themselves that they can't fathom being turned down or a woman not being attracted to them, and they almost ALWAYS make an excuse for it. These are usually the ones to talk down a woman for turning him down...something along the lines of, "She wasn't all that hot, anyways."

As far as attraction goes, when I have found a guy attractive, I've never compared him to myself or considered him 'as attractive as me' or anything like that. If I'm attracted to a guy, I'm attracted to the whole package and I never once consider his looks in comparison to mine. And the only guys I've ever considered 'out of my league' are the ones that I'm just flat out not attracted to in any way because if I'm not attracted to you, then you have no chance. That would be the ONLY factor that puts me out of your league.

"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall

4 Oct 2013

Quote by SereneProdigy

All that stuff you typed...sorry, too much stuff to quote.

I guess I get the gist of what you're saying. But I've never been intimidated enough by a guy's looks to downplay them as a form of self-preservation. If he's not attracted to me, then I say "Oh well," and keep it moving. I rarely give it a second thought.

As I've said before, the only thing that puts a guy out of my league is me not being attracted to him for whatever reason...even if he is physically appealing in every way.

But I never say, "Oh, he's as attractive as I think I am...so he'll do." Again, that's absolutely ridiculous...and miserable.

"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall

4 Oct 2013

Quote by slipperywhenwet2012

I guess I get the gist of what you're saying. But I've never been intimidated enough by a guy's looks to downplay them as a form of self-preservation. If he's not attracted to me, then I say "Oh well," and keep it moving. I rarely give it a second thought.

As I've said before, the only thing that puts a guy out of my league is me not being attracted to him for whatever reason...even if he is physically appealing in every way.

But I never say, "Oh, he's as attractive as I think I am...so he'll do." Again, that's absolutely ridiculous...and miserable.

At the risk of alienating the male population, I think the "out of my league" syndrome is a guy thing, rarely spoken except by your mates. It is never admitted to but it' a subconscious thought.

4 Oct 2013

Wow - this is getting more serious than I thought it would be... nice!

I think we're addressing many other 'dating' phenomenons here : gender roles, the 'league' thing, casual physical attraction vs long-term potential, etc...

But to keep the focus on my original puzzlement, I think it all comes down to protecting one's ego in the case of rejection. Rejection is a different phenomenon for each gender (more on that later), but both react in a similar way to protect their ego when being rejected by a potential partner, in my opinion.

'Protecting the ego' is a psychological phenomenon that applies in every domain of a person's life, not just romance. When we're successful in something, we attribute the causes to internal ones ; in the case of failure, we attribute the causes to external ones. For example, if you get a great score in an exam, it will be because you are smart, brilliant and studied hard. If you fail the same exam, it will be because the teacher was bad, the other students were distracting and the questions were ambiguous ; surely not because of you.

I think the exact same instinctive reactions apply in romance. In the case of failure, it's hard to admit that the person rejected us because we're ugly, uneducated, lame, etc. We thus attribute this rejection to external causes, which in this case are often perceived in the other person involved. Different people will handle this differently, but everybody is going to protect their ego somehow. In our cases (Slippery, DD, myself), I think we're mature/respectful enough not to be mean toward the other person, but we're still going to attribute our 'failure' to external causes somehow : "We had different personalities", "We weren't at the same point in our lives", "It wasn't meant to happen", etc.

Also, even if a person didn't perceive someone else as a potential partner, it's hard to admit that a person of the opposite sex is 'better than us', or would have the upper hand in a romantic approach when presented with that possibilty. Nobody likes to feel like a needy puppet that's being played with (especially women, being naturally graceful and all glasses8

). In the case I presented, it surely was easier to isolate/witness this phenomenon, since only the physical appearance was evaluated. I guess most women in this situation were not too inclined to admit that my friend had the upper hand over them in terms of appearance. Maybe they didn't perceive him completely 'out of their league' in general, but still needed to protect their ego somehow in this particular situation.

Concerning what Dancing_Doll said concerning gender roles, I agree with some of the things she said, while disagreeing with others.

First off, I do believe that men can take it as personally as women when they're being rejected. Maybe you girls never had the 'chance' to witness how men might feel when they're being rejected, but I can assure you that most will be 'troubled' somehow (especially with a woman they particularly liked and had hopes with). They won't be too keen to present that vulnerability to women though ; also, being rejected for a one-night-stand isn't the same as being rejected for a long-term relationship, and some men have more experience at being rejected too. As I've said previously, different men will handle it differently, but they're still going to find a way to protect their ego somehow. I've seen it all : guys handling it maturely (as I've presented above), guys being literally pissed and calling girls names (in their back), tough guys getting teary eyed, etc.

Also, for men and women, I think rejection happens at different times during their interactions. For women, being rejected simply means that the man they are seeking doesn't approach them, or doesn't react to their cues. For men, being rejected is often way more obvious, as it happens when they try to hit on a woman. In that sense, I agree that men need to develop thicker skin as the rejection is often more 'in their face'. But most will still feel this hit they'll take in the face.

Concerning how both genders devalue the opposite sex when facing rejection in an immature manner, I think Dancing_Doll was right (which is impressive, considering she didn't even have her coffee yet and stuff). Gender roles come into play here. Males might not devalue a woman's appearance, as they'll still want to be perceived as sexual entities that would gladly fuck even the dumbest bombshell. But they'll still call her dumb, superficial, arrogant, slutty, etc. (believe me, I've heard some nasty things being said in women's back). Being so mean and vulgar helps them appear as if they're manly and got thick skin, but it just betrays how affected they can be when facing rejection. Females on the other hand, will try to maintain a respectable image of themselves and will try to appear 'unaffected' by the male's qualities : "You girls find him hot and assertive? Hmm, I'm not so sure myself... he doesn't quite impress me physically, plus he sounds so full of himself". That way, I think men are generally more vulgar when devaluing a woman, whereas women are more polite and objective. Again, I think this is gender roles coming into play.

About the whole 'leagues' debate, that will be another subject for another time, but I do somehow believe in this phenomenon...

Shit, can I be wordy. I think tomorrow I'll start a thread where I'll explain in 5 pages why g-strings are more 'natural' than boyshorts.

4 Oct 2013

In my older, more senior status to most all of you I would offer that I no longer really care nearly as much about looks as I did when in my 20s. Affection, companionship and intimacy are so important now.

4 Oct 2013

These girls are in my league. You need superpowers to be in my league. That or a really hot ass :

5 Oct 2013

I think the original poster may have a point. Women may downplay the attractiveness of someone they think is unlikely to be interested in them.

On the other hand, women have varying tastes. Some women like a wholesome, preppy appearance, others prefer the "bad boy" look etc. You may be rating a woman lower because she has a different style than you, and she may likewise prefer a different style in men than you think is attractive.

My newest story! An Island Competition entry: The Mermen of Jibei

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5 Oct 2013

Quote by CharlotteRusse1
On the other hand, women have varying tastes. Some women like a wholesome, preppy appearance, others prefer the "bad boy" look etc. You may be rating a woman lower because she has a different style than you, and she may likewise prefer a different style in men than you think is attractive.

I'm not so sure about this. I believe a handsome man would be considered handsome no matter his style. I mean, sure his style can alterate some of his features (long hair/short hair, beard/no beard) and slightly change his level of attractiveness, but his overall physique will remain the same. Also, a woman might prefer a certain style over another, but I think she'll still be able to rate/isolate his physical features only.

Plus, in the situation I proposed, the people worked in an office and everybody had more or less the same style anyway.

This man would be handsome no matter if he was a businessman, hippie, punk or metrosexual, in my opinion :

5 Oct 2013

Quote by SereneProdigy
Do you have a hard time admitting that a man is more desirable than you?

Do you generally feel more attracted to men that have a status/appearance similar to yours?

Could you possibly be attracted to a man that you believe wouldn't desire you much?

Okay girls, I'm still wondering about these questions. Here's a test for you (you like these tests, admit it!).

Consider this man. He was born and raised in a wealthy family of entrepreneurs, but decided to study in medicine to help others more directly. He graduated from Harvard and was the first of his class. He is passionate about art and culture, plays 3 instruments, has philanthropic tendencies, travelled around the world, and speaks 4 languages fluently. He's also a semi-professional boxer, but never got any injuries because he's too good at it. Despite all of his achievements, he is extremely kind and humble. Unfortunately, he has a 1-inch micropenis and is clueless about sex (kidding!).

Now, imagine meeting this man in an event/bar, where people from all classes of society are present, including women that could be considered his 'equals'. You are single when this happens. He might interact with you, but doesn't offer you any 'special' attention whatsoever (he doesn't necessarily rejects you, but doesn't hit on you either). How do you feel about this?

Would you join the crowd of ladies that are all admiring him in awe and stupefaction, ignore him, or frown at him from a distance?

Would you be more attracted to him, or to a decent/nice male more 'in your league' also present at the moment?

5 Oct 2013

Quote by SereneProdigy
Do you have a hard time admitting that a man is more desirable than you?

Do you generally feel more attracted to men that have a status/appearance similar to yours?

Could you possibly be attracted to a man that you believe wouldn't desire you much?

1. No. The thought never crosses my mind.

2. Not really.

3. No. But on what basis do I place the assumption that he wouldn't desire me just by looking at him?

Quote by SereneProdigy
Now, imagine meeting this man in an event/bar, where people from all classes of society are present, including women that could be considered his 'equal'. You are single when this happens. He might interact with you, but doesn't offer you any 'special' attention whatsoever (he doesn't necessarily rejects you, but doesn't hit on you either). How do you feel about this?

Would you join the crowd of ladies that are all admiring him in awe and stupefaction, ignore him, or frown at him from a distance?

Would you be more attracted to him, or to a decent/nice male more 'in your league' also present at the moment?

I would NEVER join a crowd of women fawning over a man. Eww.

As far as his wealth and career in medicine goes, why would any of this matter? Why would a man's money and career put him out of my league? If he's too busy focusing on a crowd of women, that in and of itself says plenty.

And to answer your final question, I'd be more attracted to the guy that's managed to capture and hold my attention.

A lot of things you've mentioned are rather superficial, I must say. I'm not saying this to criticize you or invalidate what you're saying, because a lot of what you're saying makes sense. But I would think that superficial people worry about not being good enough for someone because of superficial reasons such as the many you've listed.

"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall

6 Oct 2013

Quote by slipperywhenwet2012

I would NEVER join a crowd of women fawning over a man. Eww.

As far as his wealth and career in medicine goes, why would any of this matter? Why would a man's money and career put him out of my league? If he's too busy focusing on a crowd of women, that in and of itself says plenty.

And to answer your final question, I'd be more attracted to the guy that's managed to capture and hold my attention.

A lot of things you've mentioned are rather superficial, I must say. I'm not saying this to criticize you or invalidate what you're saying, because a lot of what you're saying makes sense. But I would think that superficial people worry about not being good enough for someone because of superficial reasons such as the many you've listed.

Congratulations, you passed the test! =d>

Seriously, I think I understand fairly well what you're trying to say. I would act more or less the same actually.

Concerning the 'superficial' traits you mention, I was just trying to represent the 'ideal male' in an exaggerated manner to make the test more tangible and funnier. Of course you could say that the most important thing is a mutual one-on-one connection and such, but a lot of the things I mentionned are generally perceived as highly attractive by females :

- Physically fit/active and handsome
- Intelligent and passionate
- Successful in just about anything he tries
- Kind and dedicated
- Wealthy (sorry to say, but this is attractive to many women)

Of course this is a bit superficial, but when you first meet someone the first impression is always based on superficial factors anyway. You got to admit you'd probably want to know more about him, and at least let him approach you and find out if there's any connection (he washes himself with Irish Spring though, so you might run away from him).

Like I said, I'd act the same as you. If I was in a similar situation with a woman having an 'Angelina Jolie' status, although I might see her a bit as 'out of my league', I'd try not to be intimidated by it and would treat her just like any other woman. Maybe she'd be looking for a 'perfect male' (think Brad Pitt), but quite honestly I wouldn't be intimidated by this as I never wanted to be a perfect male anyway ; I much prefer to have 'weird' interests and try/learn things that few other people are interested into. Drinking fine wine while discussing fine art with a fine vocabulary bores me to an extreme degree. Maybe she'd see my imperfections as a turn-off, but quite honestly I'd see her perfection as a turn-off too (if you know what I mean).

If I had to answer my own questions :

Do you have a hard time admitting that a woman is more desirable than you?

Yes and no. I'd give her credit for what she is, but wouldn't want to act/appear as a needy man 'below her league' either. Honestly, I might downplay her a bit. Not in a mean manner, but in a "I'm not impressed" manner (the ego is a strong thing). I think this is how women reacted in the situation I presented too.

Do you generally feel more attracted to women that have a status/appearance similar to yours?

Yes, I learned from experience that I establish a greater and much more enjoyable connection with women that I perceive as 'equals' (this works both ways). Relationships are a lot more sane and successful when one person isn't needy/clingy toward the other, in my opinion (and in the opinion of many psychologists/experts). I'd be way more turned-on by a girl 'in my league', than by a girl 'above my league'. We'd probably share a lot more opinions/interests too, as I've mentioned above.

Could you possibly be attracted to a woman that you believe wouldn't desire you much?

No, same as above. I'm not appealed by such inequal relationships at all, even if the woman was a drop dead gorgeous genius. As opposed to slipperywhenwet2012, I'd tend to believe that a 'perfect' woman wouldn't desire me much, but I wouldn't take any offense from it.

6 Oct 2013

Quote by SereneProdigy

Congratulations, you passed the test! =d>

Right...test.

"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall

6 Oct 2013

Quote by SereneProdigy

Would you be more attracted to him, or to a decent/nice male more 'in your league' also present at the moment?

Not gonna lie, I'd be all over Mr Fantasy Man there. In this case *all over* is expressing interest in a cool yet playful and completely non-stalkerish way. I wouldn't be standing in the corner giggling with all the girls and swooning. I'd make a bit of a play but nothing over the top. If there's no bite back of interest, I'd continue on with the night. It wouldn't upset me if he still seemed disinterested - I would be likely to assume he was in a relationship or had something in the works (pre-relationship) or I just wasn't his type. Attraction is usually such an instantaneous thing - it wouldn't be particularly soul-crushing to be dismissed because I wouldn't have any emotions invested - it's just a moment in time where you either connect with someone - or you don't.

The Qs:

Do you have a hard time admitting that a man is more desirable than you?

Nope.

Do you generally feel more attracted to men that have a status/appearance similar to yours?

Yeah, to a degree, but I'll aim higher. There have been a few times when I've been surprised that guys I would have thought were 'un-gettable' were actually quite gettable. Or maybe I just underestimate myself sometimes.

Could you possibly be attracted to a man that you believe wouldn't desire you much?

Attracted, yes. But I'd be pretty cool about it. Having someone be attracted to you is flattering - having them not get the message or keep pushing for something that's not going to happen is not. I think it's all in the way you handle yourself when someone has piqued your interest.

6 Oct 2013

Quote by slipperywhenwet2012

Right...test(es).

And left too. Don't be a slacker. I always take care of both of yours.

6 Oct 2013

Quote by roymunson101

And left too. Don't be a slacker. I always take care of both of yours.

You promised me you'd never mention it. crybaby

"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall

7 Oct 2013

Quote by Dancing_Doll

Not gonna lie, I'd be all over Mr Fantasy Man there. In this case *all over* is expressing interest in a cool yet playful and completely non-stalkerish way. I wouldn't be standing in the corner giggling with all the girls and swooning. I'd make a bit of a play but nothing over the top. If there's no bite back of interest, I'd continue on with the night. It wouldn't upset me if he still seemed disinterested - I would be likely to assume he was in a relationship or had something in the works (pre-relationship) or I just wasn't his type. Attraction is usually such an instantaneous thing - it wouldn't be particularly soul-crushing to be dismissed because I wouldn't have any emotions invested - it's just a moment in time where you either connect with someone - or you don't.

The Qs:

Do you have a hard time admitting that a man is more desirable than you?

Nope.

Do you generally feel more attracted to men that have a status/appearance similar to yours?

Yeah, to a degree, but I'll aim higher. There have been a few times when I've been surprised that guys I would have thought were 'un-gettable' were actually quite gettable. Or maybe I just underestimate myself sometimes.

Could you possibly be attracted to a man that you believe wouldn't desire you much?

Attracted, yes. But I'd be pretty cool about it. Having someone be attracted to you is flattering - having them not get the message or keep pushing for something that's not going to happen is not. I think it's all in the way you handle yourself when someone has piqued your interest.

LOL, I like how you're totally thrilled, yet unimpressed by my Mr Fantasy Man : "Hell I'd sure try my luck! If he doesn't react to my 'playful' manners, surely he'd be committed seriously in a relationship... or gay." Not talking

Admit it, the picture I included totally turned you on...

Seriously though, I'm not sure we're very good subjects for this test. I mean, the three of us are most probably already plenty satisfied with partners we generally consider our equals. To try our luck with someone 'above our league' would be a casual/fun challenge more than anything. If this person refuses us, we'd still have plenty of decent people to flirt with, so the rejection wouldn't be really hurtful. Sincerely (don't see this as bragging), I don't really have to look 'above my league' to find gorgeous, intelligent and inspiring ladies. I'm still looking for the 'extra-special connection' with such a woman, but that's a different story...

Now imagine a 3/10 girl (3/10 in every aspect, not just looks) trying to seduce 5/10 guys. I mean 5/10 is simply average, but would still be a challenge for her. That surely would be a bit more intimidating, since rejection would mean she'd be doomed to date only 3/10 butt ugly, dumb guys. I don't think these people would have responded with the kind of 'serene' answers we displayed here. Surely they have more insecurities than we do, and must take extra care to protect their ego. That's my opinion anyway.

Also as Dancing_Doll mentioned in her 2nd answer, dating is almost never a 'linear' and absolute thing. What if a girl who's 8/10 in looks, 3/10 in intelligence and 4/10 in accomplishments, meets a guy who's 5/10 in every aspects? Who would be above the other's league? If anything, I think that would be the main counterargument against the whole 'league' theory. I, for one, have dated girls that were better looking than I was. And guess what? They were the ones that were clingy, and I was the one who put an end to the relationship. Yet, some other times, I felt intimidated by average looking girls that I perceived as more intelligent than me. I also knew a woman (older than me), who had a Ph.D. and married a man who barely finished high school. And they still perceived each other as equals.

7 Oct 2013

Quote by SereneProdigy

Admit it, the picture I included totally turned you on...
.

Actually, the pic turned me on less than the descriptions and accomplishments. In fact, even if you hadn't shown a pic, based on those descriptions I would have been interested in knowing more. I've had some pretty guys before, that if they were well photoshopped and lit, wouldn't look all that different from the guy in the pic. I've also turned down a really good looking guy or two (even a male model) because the attitude was really unattractive. And I've gone for others because the attraction (for a fling) overcame the connection-flaws. Looks have never been as intimidating as a guy that's really got his shit together in the personal/educational/vocational/life-outlook sphere. Those are the guys that are more apt to bring out the girly "I don't know if he'll like me" nervous flutters.

I may have sounded totally cool with my answers, but I do have my insecurities (don't we all?). That initial meeting, chat, hook-up is easy because you're not putting that much on the line, so whether you perceive someone as hotter than you shouldn't really unnerve people that much. Once you're really getting to know someone and 'in the box' so to speak, it's a different kind of vulnerability - especially when they're really impressing and intriguing you and the right vibe and energy is there.