Quote by Casualguy1st
I don't understand that answer.
None of us did!
Active Ink Slinger
None of us did!
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Have you come out to family/parents?
None of us did!
Active Ink Slinger
I did. got a very unpleasant reaction from them, but that was expected. my maternal and paternal relatives sort of blamed each other, my father's parents saying it was the French blood, my maternal relatives retorting it was one of their freaky Chinese rituals gone wrong. needless to say they fought each other more than they chewed me out, so I got off easier than I woulda thought
Quote by sprite
just so you are aware:
credentials. Dr Neil Whitehead is associated with NARTH, an association of mental health professionals who operate under the assumption that homosexual individuals who want to change, can change -- with counseling (or brainwashing).
your other examples back what i was referring to - epigenetic roots.
Of course Dr Neil is advocating that homosexuals if want can change. His researches on 3 different continents has proven that homosexuality is not genetic. You can call it as pleased, even brainwashing, but we don't live in the middle age, they don't burn witches. Haven't read much about him, so cannot be sure of that either.
Epigenetics has nothing to do with genetics as you want to present it. I am not scientists but I think epigenetic has something to do with hormones and reactions between genes themselves..I think.
As far as I am concerned, neither of us can prove their right, you relying on past and possibly obsoleted facts and I on future not proven ones. Future will tell for sure.
I want to repeat myself and say it again, my believe has nothing to do with trying to insult anyone, straight or homosexual people, it is just how I feel (that sex is something fantastic, and why limit ourselves) and it is completely irrelevant for scientific world that deals with homosexuality.
Her Royal Spriteness
Quote by She
we don't live in the middle age, they don't burn witches.
Treatment of Gays in Uganda: The Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Bill (often called the "Kill the Gays bill" in the media due to the originally proposed death penalty clauses) was passed by the Parliament of Uganda on 20 December 2013 with the death penalty proposal dropped in favor of life in prison.
The legislative proposal would broaden the criminalisation of same-sex relations in Uganda domestically, and further includes provisions for Ugandans who engage in same-sex relations outside of Uganda, asserting that they may be extradited for punishment back to Uganda, and includes penalties for individuals, companies, media organisations, or non-governmental organisations that know of gay people or support LGBT rights.
Treatment of Gays in Russia: In 2013, Russia received criticism from around the world for enacting a law that bans the distribution of "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations" to minors, which effectively makes it illegal to suggest that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships or to distribute material on gay rights.
Since the passage of the anti-gay propaganda law, the media has reported the arrest of a gay rights activist as well as a surging incidence of hate crimes motivated by homophobia including hate crimes perpetrated by neo-Nazi groups against gay minors. A law prohibiting gay pride parades in Moscow for one-hundred years has also recently been enacted. International rights groups have described the current situation as the worst human rights climate in the post-Soviet era, while Russian human rights activist Lyudmila Alexeyeva has called passage of the law against gay propaganda "a step toward the Middle Ages.
It is illegal to be gay in 76 countries. Punishments range from fines to short and lifelong prison sentences, hard labor, forced psychiatric treatment, banishment, whippings, and death by public stoning. Even in the US, there are hate groups who would, if they could, do violence against gays.
http://www.godhatesfags.com/
the site name alone should give you a good idea. my point is, we might not burn witches, but if some people had their way, we WOULD burn gays. now, as for gays changing, yes, they can - in fact, Arizona is setting out to prove that they can this year:
Beginning November 1st of this year, the state of Arizona is implementing a mandatory school program designed for all children grades K-12 to help homosexual males and women become straight. The controversial conversion therapy will be used in all of Arizona’s 2,325 public school curriculums and is already gathering a large amount of criticism as well as those who approve of the new program.
Dean Huls who is the brain child behind People Can Change spoke with Fox News about their plan to help all the gay children of Arizona. “Since 2000 ‘People Can Change’ has been helping thousands of children resolve their unwanted same-sex attractions. We bring the gay demons out of these individuals so they can become who god intended them to be. Our success and track record speaks for itself,” Huls said. “Facing the reality that you have unwanted homosexual feelings can cause tremendous turmoil – especially as a child whose feelings conflict with deeply held values, beliefs and life goals. But there is a way out. A path that leads them to resolve rather than fight their homosexual feelings. A path to authentic brotherhood and to our innate heterosexual masculinity.”
btw, electro shock therapy is also one of the methods used to make gays go straight.
frankly, it's not a matter of someone who is gay WANTING to be straight. it's a matter of them being convinced that they are sinning, they are evil, they are wrong. it's a matter of them being bullied and persecuted and threatened until they can't take it anymore. it's a matter of them being indoctrinated at a very young age into thinking they are abnormal monsters. there is nothing wrong with being gay, so why would someone WANT to change? forced to change? yes, but not WANT.
You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.
Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
Quote by She
Epigenetics has nothing to do with genetics as you want to present it. I am not scientists but I think epigenetic has something to do with hormones and reactions between genes themselves..I think.
Actually, epigenetics has very little to do with hormones. It's more about how different genes are expressed, which can be due to internal factors (inner biology) as well as external factors like your environment.
That's why epigenetics can be used to support the notion that sexuality does in fact have biological roots and can be predetermined. We don't choose our genes, and we don't choose the way our genes are expressed...kind of like something else we don't choose.
"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall
Her Royal Spriteness
Quote by Dani
kind of like something else we don't choose.
our favorite flavor of ice cream?
You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by sprite
our favorite flavor of ice cream?
I went outside to scream this afternoon and the I went and talked to a wall!
Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
Quote by sprite
our favorite flavor of ice cream?
Precisely!
We don't choose our favorite flavor of ice cream...our favorite flavor of ice cream chooses US!
"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall
Her Royal Spriteness
Quote by Dani
Precisely!
We don't choose our favorite flavor of ice cream...our favorite flavor of ice cream chooses US!
i don't much care for ice cream...
You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.
Quote by she
we don't live in the middle age, they don't burn witches
Quote by sprite
Treatment of Gays in Uganda: The Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Bill (often called the "Kill the Gays bill" in the media due to the originally proposed death penalty clauses) was passed by the Parliament of Uganda on 20 December 2013 with the death penalty proposal dropped in favor of life in prison.
The legislative proposal would broaden the criminalisation of same-sex relations in Uganda domestically, and further includes provisions for Ugandans who engage in same-sex relations outside of Uganda, asserting that they may be extradited for punishment back to Uganda, and includes penalties for individuals, companies, media organisations, or non-governmental organisations that know of gay people or support LGBT rights.
Treatment of Gays in Russia: In 2013, Russia received criticism from around the world for enacting a law that bans the distribution of "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations" to minors, which effectively makes it illegal to suggest that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships or to distribute material on gay rights.
Since the passage of the anti-gay propaganda law, the media has reported the arrest of a gay rights activist as well as a surging incidence of hate crimes motivated by homophobia including hate crimes perpetrated by neo-Nazi groups against gay minors. A law prohibiting gay pride parades in Moscow for one-hundred years has also recently been enacted. International rights groups have described the current situation as the worst human rights climate in the post-Soviet era, while Russian human rights activist Lyudmila Alexeyeva has called passage of the law against gay propaganda "a step toward the Middle Ages.
It is illegal to be gay in 76 countries. Punishments range from fines to short and lifelong prison sentences, hard labor, forced psychiatric treatment, banishment, whippings, and death by public stoning. Even in the US, there are hate groups who would, if they could, do violence against gays.
http://www.godhatesfags.com/
the site name alone should give you a good idea. my point is, we might not burn witches, but if some people had their way, we WOULD burn gays. now, as for gays changing, yes, they can - in fact, Arizona is setting out to prove that they can this year:
Beginning November 1st of this year, the state of Arizona is implementing a mandatory school program designed for all children grades K-12 to help homosexual males and women become straight. The controversial conversion therapy will be used in all of Arizona’s 2,325 public school curriculums and is already gathering a large amount of criticism as well as those who approve of the new program.
Dean Huls who is the brain child behind People Can Change spoke with Fox News about their plan to help all the gay children of Arizona. “Since 2000 ‘People Can Change’ has been helping thousands of children resolve their unwanted same-sex attractions. We bring the gay demons out of these individuals so they can become who god intended them to be. Our success and track record speaks for itself,” Huls said. “Facing the reality that you have unwanted homosexual feelings can cause tremendous turmoil – especially as a child whose feelings conflict with deeply held values, beliefs and life goals. But there is a way out. A path that leads them to resolve rather than fight their homosexual feelings. A path to authentic brotherhood and to our innate heterosexual masculinity.”
btw, electro shock therapy is also one of the methods used to make gays go straight.
frankly, it's not a matter of someone who is gay WANTING to be straight. it's a matter of them being convinced that they are sinning, they are evil, they are wrong. it's a matter of them being bullied and persecuted and threatened until they can't take it anymore. it's a matter of them being indoctrinated at a very young age into thinking they are abnormal monsters. there is nothing wrong with being gay, so why would someone WANT to change? forced to change? yes, but not WANT.
Yes, I've said that quite recklessly, could be read as ignorance as well. I guess I am being sugar coated in my life when it comes to that specter that is.
Quote by Dani
Actually, epigenetics has very little to do with hormones. It's more about how different genes are expressed, which can be due to internal factors (inner biology) as well as external factors like your environment.
That's why epigenetics can be used to support the notion that sexuality does in fact have biological roots and can be predetermined. We don't choose our genes, and we don't choose the way our genes are expressed...kind of like something else we don't choose.
It could be just me, but this reads the same as I said, just that you pointed out and took that argument to contradict mine. Which is fine, but neither of us are in this field of science that could discus epigenetics and how it effects homosexuals.
Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
Quote by She
It could be just me, but this reads the same as I said
No, it doesn't.
Quote by She
Which is fine, but neither of us are in this field of science that could discus epigenetics and how it effects homosexuals.
Speak for yourself.
"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall
Quote by Dani
Speak for yourself.
oh please, it is absolutely new researches with few rare scientist who are trying to discover 'new world' or as some people would like to say they are trying to brainwash homosexuals. So, no I most certainly do not believe that you are one of them, maybe just the one 'scientists' who supports that everything new is outrageous. Not much of a science mind I would say.
Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
Quote by She
oh please, it is absolutely new researches with few rare scientist who are trying to discover 'new world' or as some people would like to say they are trying to brainwash homosexuals. So, no I most certainly do not believe that you are one of them, maybe just the one 'scientists' who supports that everything new is outrageous. Not much of a science mind I would say.
As far as me not being a 'science' mind, two things:
1. I have a degree that says otherwise. Working towards another that will say even more. Not saying this to brag. It's just a fact and it's not something I even mention unless it comes up. But you seemed concerned, so I thought I'd let you know.
2. There's nothing new about epigenetics. There's just a name for it now. It's just a sub-sect of genetics as a whole.
And from an evolutionary standpoint, it's becoming more apparent in people, animals, and even plants. Anything from one's favorite scent to favorite food to preferred weather/location can be attributed to epigenetics...as well as many other things like SEXUALITY.
See? Full circle.
You're welcome.
P.S. It'd be great if you could stick to the topic at hand without feeling the need to insult someone's intelligence. I noticed that's the tactic you use when you're out of valid/relevant points. And I understand that it's your thing, which is fine. We all need something, so I won't judge...but it really has no place here in the forum.
Please and thanks.
"What is the quality of your intent?" - Thurgood Marshall
Quote by Dani
As far as me not being a 'science' mind, two things:
1. I have a degree that says otherwise. Working towards another that will say even more. Not saying this to brag. It's just a fact and it's not something I even mention unless it comes up. But you seemed concerned, so I thought I'd let you know.
P.S. It'd be great if you could stick to the topic at hand without feeling the need to insult someone's intelligence. I noticed that's the tactic you use when you're out of valid/relevant points. And I understand that it's your thing, which is fine. We all need something, so I won't judge...but it really has no place here in the forum.
Please and thanks.
Noted. However it would be more than required if you would stick to what you ask for, beside if you do not like the way I express myself, please, by all means, you do not need to talk to me or respond to my every post. As far as I know, I haven't broke any forum rules.
Quote by Dani
2. There's nothing new about epigenetics. There's just a name for it now. It's just a sub-sect of genetics as a whole.
And from an evolutionary standpoint, it's becoming more apparent in people, animals, and even plants. Anything from one's favorite scent to favorite food to preferred weather/location can be attributed to epigenetics...as well as many other things like SEXUALITY.
See? Full circle.
You're welcome.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by She
You can google and research all you want but get back on the thread! There's another thread about homosexuality being a choice!!! POST THERE!!!!
I'm happily married and on the straight line, but during my time as a bisexual I really didn't have come out to my family 'cause they already knew. It was me and my three best friends (two who were women) and we all just fucked each other, lol. M/M F/F, threesomes. and foursomes. We were all bi, so we really just had a great together.
Quote by dpw
You can google and research all you want but get back on the thread! There's another thread about homosexuality being a choice!!! POST THERE!!!!
Ha, it has nothing to do with google_ing, although reading what is new never hurt anyone. It has every thing to do with pure simple logic. I was intrigued in which way this thread has developed, but I have no interest in fighting every battle on forum, but thanks for suggestion.
I find it, in this era of information and science, one thinking and believing what knows, has learned in textbooks, knowledge gained from parents, as a 100% fact, I find that as something extremely preposterous, ignorant and arrogant. I am defending here one simple fact, and that is very simple statement, just because we think we know something, that doesn't mean we are right about it. Maybe there exist possibility that just maybe, there are people who know more than we do. Closing those possibilities just because we were thought differently in the past is silly to me. Science is developing in great ways, with fantastic speed and to diminish that fact is beyond my understanding. I have learned enough in my life to say and admit that I know nothing.
So, if homosexuality really is matter of choice, near future will tell us. But for sure I will not close that option just because there are people who are abusing this info or people who are afraid of this info or any other reason. At the end of the day, does it really matter who we have sex with? It shouldn't be anyone's business anyway, but for people involved in one relationship.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by Kal-El85
I'm happily married and on the straight line, but during my time as a bisexual I really didn't have come out to my family 'cause they already knew. It was me and my three best friends (two who were women) and we all just fucked each other, lol. M/M F/F, threesomes. and foursomes. We were all bi, so we really just had a great together.
How did they already know?
They didn't mind?
Active Ink Slinger
No I haven't. But everyone things I'm gay, which you think would make it easier to come out but...all my friends think I'm gay? And its something they always talked about behind my back? And my parents think that because I support gay rights must mean i'm gay.
Both friends and family say that is i was gay they'd support me, however I've tested this out and they are disgusted with homosexuals.
So no...I haven't and i don't think i will. Its hard for me to describe how much it hurts that ppl always assumed I was gay/bi before even realized it myself. It makes me feel like a freak. So no, I don't plan on coming out. If i ever find a boyfriend I'm keeping is a secret.
Both friends and family say that is i was gay they'd support me, however I've tested this out and they are disgusted with homosexuals.
So no...I haven't and i don't think i will. Its hard for me to describe how much it hurts that ppl always assumed I was gay/bi before even realized it myself. It makes me feel like a freak. So no, I don't plan on coming out. If i ever find a boyfriend I'm keeping is a secret.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by She
Ha, it has nothing to do with google_ing, although reading what is new never hurt anyone. It has every thing to do with pure simple logic. I was intrigued in which way this thread has developed, but I have no interest in fighting every battle on forum, but thanks for suggestion.
I find it, in this era of information and science, one thinking and believing what knows, has learned in textbooks, knowledge gained from parents, as a 100% fact, I find that as something extremely preposterous, ignorant and arrogant. I am defending here one simple fact, and that is very simple statement, just because we think we know something, that doesn't mean we are right about it. Maybe there exist possibility that just maybe, there are people who know more than we do. Closing those possibilities just because we were thought differently in the past is silly to me. Science is developing in great ways, with fantastic speed and to diminish that fact is beyond my understanding. I have learned enough in my life to say and admit that I know nothing.
So, if homosexuality really is matter of choice, near future will tell us. But for sure I will not close that option just because there are people who are abusing this info or people who are afraid of this info or any other reason. At the end of the day, does it really matter who we have sex with? It shouldn't be anyone's business anyway, but for people involved in one relationship.
That's for you and any other idiot that thinks that I chose to be gay! It's not easy to come to terms with it but when you're born with a limited intellect, well that must be so much harder!
The ONLY choice that I had was to be either open and honest to MYSELF or live my life as a lie!!!
Please do youself a favour and don't reply to this because I won't be so polite in future!!!!
Quote by dpw
That's for you and any other idiot that thinks that I chose to be gay! It's not easy to come to terms with it but when you're born with a limited intellect, well that must be so much harder!
The ONLY choice that I had was to be either open and honest to MYSELF or live my life as a lie!!!
Please do youself a favour and don't reply to this because I won't be so polite in future!!!!
Ha, cute.
You should know better that I do not get intimidated by threats or attempts of intimidation, beside I never said that I am straight, your assumptions are straight wrong (see what I did there
). Just because I disagree with you on the subject, or better said I do not agree with you, I have my own opinion that for time being cannot be excluded, doesn't make me homophobic, it makes me person with different opinion than yours. Just because I am leaving options open that maybe homosexuality isn't genetics, doesn't make me or any other person homophobic, I just disagree with you, it just happened that you are gay and you took it personally, and that really cannot be my issue. As one smart person said, I am only responsible for what I say not for how you hear it or receive it. Active Ink Slinger
Quote by She
Ha, cute.
You should know better that I do not get intimidated by threats or attempts of intimidation, beside I never said that I am straight, your assumptions are straight wrong (see what I did there
I haven't read this because I don't give a rat's ass what you or any other fucked up nutter thinks on this subject. I LIVE IT AND NOBODY ON THIS EARTH IS GOING TO TELL ME THAT I HAD A CHOICE!!!!
So take your dangerous reversionist theories as far away from me as possible!
As a mother I would have no problem if my daughter was gay as I'm bisexual myself ... I can see why people worry to "come out" but if your happy as you are do you need to go around telling people what sexuality you are? ... You never have a straight person telling you they are straight ,Mao just be happy if that means tell people then tell people just don't be ashamed
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by Susan43Uk
As a mother I would have no problem if my daughter was gay as I'm bisexual myself ... I can see why people worry to "come out" but if your happy as you are do you need to go around telling people what sexuality you are? ... You never have a straight person telling you they are straight ,Mao just be happy if that means tell people then tell people just don't be ashamed
It's fear of being rejected that's the biggest problem, by your family and friends. The shame comes first and is, in my opinion, the easiest to get through. It's the worry of being marginalised that's the hardest to overcome.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by dpw
It's fear of being rejected that's the biggest problem, by your family and friends. The shame comes first and is, in my opinion, the easiest to get through. It's the worry of being marginalised that's the hardest to overcome.
Totally understand ur view. It is easier now as more people accept a person's sexual preferences because they r more informed. Back in the 60s, 70s and even 80s and prior - if u weren't hetro u were ostrasized. Many of my friends went thru this and they were the nicest people and didn't deserve society's reaction.
The most important thing is the people who know you and accept you as a person. The rest can go and get F**ked.
Don't try to convert the ignorant, you won't succeed - that is why they are ignorant and you just upset yourself.H294H5DUmj7bmKY4
Quote by dpw
How did they already know?
They didn't mind?
They knew because we were all at that experimental age and the fact that we were all so close promped them to figure something might happen between us (plus we got caught screwing around). They didn't mind 'cause of how close we were and the sex was always safe. Friendship; gotta love it, but the looks on their faces was hilarious when we all told them the truth.