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Just noticed ANOTHER new story category... Mind Control

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patokl
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by nicola


It makes sense as a site owner, to look at your competitors once in a while, and make sure you are offering surfers / members, what a lot of them want. There's no desperation to it at all. It's common business practice. We went a step further, and decided to throw some new categories into the mix, to make the site more interesting, and draw in a wider audience.

For anyone who is wondering how much credibility "BigGarrett" has, this is the question he posted previously, under his "TabbysTales" username (which was deleted):



You'll need to zoom in to read it - or just go here: https://www.lushstories.com/forum/yaf_postsm2799257_Can-my-story-feature-a-mother-teaching-her-daughter.aspx

Seems to have a bee in his bonnet about the Incest Fantasies section, and our ruling on a story he was proposing.

Yawn.

Let's keep on topic shall we?

Yes, it's a contentious category. Will it stay? Yes.

This wasn't supposed to be open for discussion from the start.

If the category becomes really problematic, we'll readdress, as we always do.

As much as I dislike BigGarett's tone, he is right about one thing: with the introduction of the mind control category lush abandons its stance about consent. If I control your mind, you don't, and if you have no control over your own mind, you cannot consent to anything. That means that having sex with someone whose mind is controlled is essentially . Allowing one form of will make refusing other forms of nonconsensual sex i.e. seem hypocritical. How do you see this?
A little kindness can be so valuable, yet costs almost nothing

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nicola
Matriarch
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I understand what you are saying patokl.

However, see Buz's 4th post in this thread. I think he sums it up well.

There's a big difference between hypnotising someone who secretly wanted to give you a blowjob, for example, and someone.

It's a fine line. One for the verifiers to make calls on. I trust them to make the right decisions. Proof of that is we've had the "Reluctance" category here since its inception in 2006, with close to 1,000 stories being published in that category.

It's best that our members just let the verifiers do their job, instead of there being micro-analysis and debate of every site change. Enjoy it for what it is.

In future, I think it's best that site announcements are made, and that is the end of it. By the time we announce changes / additions like this, the decision has been made. There's no point arguing against them, after the fact.

If we want membership feedback prior to a decision, we ask for it. Otherwise it's a "management" decision, and final.
patokl
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by nicola
I understand what you are saying patokl.

However, see Buz's 4th post in this thread. I think he sums it up well.

There's a big difference between hypnotising someone who secretly wanted to give you a blowjob, for example, and someone.

It's a fine line. One for the verifiers to make calls on.

I disagree. Buz speaks of hypnosis and what he basically says is, that a hypnotised person doesn't lose control. In other words, hypnosis does not control the mind. Most hypnotist and psychologists would agree with that.

The definition of control in this context is "to have power over" (Merriam-Webster). Mind control, regardless of the used technique, means to have power over a mind, in other words, over the way a person thinks, behaves and decides. Anything a person does as a result of mind control is done because the one controlling the mind made them do it, not because they chose to do it. Even if the controlled person had a latent desire to do it, they lost the power to decide where, when and with whom. After all, even if a person loves sex, it's still to subject them to it when they're not able to voluntarily and consciously consent. Whether that's because of alcohol, drugs or mind control is in my humble opinion irrelevant.
A little kindness can be so valuable, yet costs almost nothing

In many countries being gay is a crime, and even in modern societies, politicians try to legalise discrimination. Your voice can make a difference. Have a look at All Out to find out how.

Hey... pssst.... that's an l (as in luscious) at the end of my name, not an i
Jen
Charming as fuck
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If you don't feel comfortable reading a story, then please don't read it. If you don't feel comfortable viewing a particular category, then please block it.

Sheesh. I wonder if murder mystery writers generate this much debate
patokl
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by Jen
If you don't feel comfortable reading a story, then please don't read it. If you don't feel comfortable viewing a particular category, then please block it.

Sheesh. I wonder if murder mystery writers generate this much debate

It's not about being comfortable reading something, it's about whether or not the mind control category meets lush's standard that all sex described here must be consensual. In my opinion it does not.
A little kindness can be so valuable, yet costs almost nothing

In many countries being gay is a crime, and even in modern societies, politicians try to legalise discrimination. Your voice can make a difference. Have a look at All Out to find out how.

Hey... pssst.... that's an l (as in luscious) at the end of my name, not an i
Jen
Charming as fuck
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Quote by patokl

It's not about being comfortable reading something, it's about whether or not the mind control category meets lush's standard that all sex described here must be consensual. In my opinion it does not.


Okay, noted. But as Nicola says above, the decision has already been made. The story verifiers will decide on what is and isn't allowed through.
sprite
Her Royal Spriteness
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Quote by patokl

It's not about being comfortable reading something, it's about whether or not the mind control category meets lush's standard that all sex described here must be consensual. In my opinion it does not.


do you seriously think i would be on board with anything that breaks consent? i gave this one my stamp of approval after discussing the pros and cons. do you really need more?

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Green_Man
Primus Omnium
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Quote by Jen

Sheesh. I wonder if murder mystery writers generate this much debate


Gee, I hope my next murder mystery generates as much debate as possible. As they say, any publicity is good publicity. I hope you get to verify it one of these days, Jen. Mele kalikimaka.
Ruthie
Empress of the Moon
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Quote by patokl

It's not about being comfortable reading something, it's about whether or not the mind control category meets lush's standard that all sex described here must be consensual. In my opinion it does not.


Obviously the mind control category meets Lush standards. If it didn't, it wouldn't be a category. Whether a mind control story fits Lush standards is a matter for the story verifiers to decide. Lush is changing. We are broadening our horizons and doing story types that we haven't done before. Mind control is just one of our new categories. If you think reading stories about mind control will upset you, don't read them. The same holds true of any of our categories. If Love Stories upset you, don't read them. Our moderators are capable of telling when a story breaches Lush rules. We return stories with elements of non-consent all the time. We will do the same when mind control crosses the line of consent.

We have an obligation to all our members to provide stories that interest and excite them. All of our members don't like the same type of story, so we have numerous categories for them to choose from. If any category offends you, by all means, don't read it. Readers who read mind control stories know that the stories contain elements of mind control Mind control means control of another person's mind. If the participant consents to having his or her mind controlled, there is no issue of non-consent. If there is an issue with non-consent, the story will be returned.
[url]http://[/url]
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by nicola


It makes sense as a site owner, to look at your competitors once in a while, and make sure you are offering surfers / members, what a lot of them want. There's no desperation to it at all. It's common business practice. We went a step further, and decided to throw some new categories into the mix, to make the site more interesting, and draw in a wider audience.

For anyone who is wondering how much credibility "BigGarrett" has, this is the question he posted previously, under his "TabbysTales" username (which was deleted):



You'll need to zoom in to read it - or just go here: https://

Seems to have a bee in his bonnet about the Incest Fantasies section, and our ruling on a story he was proposing.

Yawn.

Let's keep on topic shall we?

Yes, it's a contentious category. Will it stay? Yes.

This wasn't supposed to be open for discussion from the start.

If the category becomes really problematic, we'll readdress, as we always do.




A bee in my bonnet over the incest category? I don't think so. Look at my profile -- I have two incest stories uploaded. I have no problem with incest stories. I enjoy it and hope it does stay.

My point is this: Lush has established itself as a site that abhors incest and non-con, claiming that those stories are illegal, ruining lives, and all the mods would walk away from the site before we installed those categories. So why the sudden change of heart?

If it's a necessity, and a genuine attempt to raise traffic, I'm sure people would understand. But you claim the site's doing better then ever, with 2.5 million people visiting the site on a monthly basis. So you can see why people are a little confused?
Guest
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I wish I could control my freaking mime.
Annamagique
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by BigGarrett




A bee in my bonnet over the incest category? I don't think so. Look at my profile -- I have two incest stories uploaded. I have no problem with incest stories. I enjoy it and hope it does stay.

My point is this: Lush has established itself as a site that abhors incest and non-con, claiming that those stories are the are illegal, ruining lives, and all the mods would walk away from the site before we installed those categories. So why the sudden change of heart?

If it's a necessity, and a genuine attempt to raise traffic, I'm sure people would understand. But you claim the site's doing better then ever, with 2.5 million people visiting the site on a monthly basis. So you can see why people are a little confused?


I'm not confused. I see a distinct lowering of standards from when I joined.
I once submitted a fantasy story where the heroine had a night of passion with two witches where she was 'guided' into lesbian sex with them. It was rejected under the grounds of 'mind control' and I had to ever so slightly alter the wording.
Now it's a category along with the vile Incest one.
WooHoo!!!! 27,000 views! Could I dare to hope for a famous story...


https://www.lushstories.com/stories/milf/the-runner.aspx
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by Annamagique


I'm not confused. I see a distinct lowering of standards from when I joined.
I once submitted a fantasy story where the heroine had a night of passion with two witches where she was 'guided' into lesbian sex with them. It was rejected under the grounds of 'mind control' and I had to ever so slightly alter the wording.
Now it's a category along with the vile Incest one.


A woman being coerced into lesbian sex with 2 witches? That's some seriously kinky stuff. More hardcore than anything I've ever read in the incest category. You have a very naughty mind.
patokl
Active Ink Slinger
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Like I said before, it's not about liking or disliking mind control stories. I still have one question. With any form of consensual sex, even the harshest forms of BDSM, it must be possible to withdraw that consent at any time. How do you envision that when mind control is applied?
A little kindness can be so valuable, yet costs almost nothing

In many countries being gay is a crime, and even in modern societies, politicians try to legalise discrimination. Your voice can make a difference. Have a look at All Out to find out how.

Hey... pssst.... that's an l (as in luscious) at the end of my name, not an i
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by patokl
Like I said before, it's not about liking or disliking mind control stories. I still have one question. With any form of consensual sex, even the harshest forms of BDSM, it must be possible to withdraw that consent at any time. How do you envision that when mind control is applied?


It is about liking or disliking a story. Jen summed it up with this:

Quote by Jen
If you don't feel comfortable reading a story, then please don't read it. If you don't feel comfortable viewing a particular category, then please block it.



It's all a matter of opinion, and we have to respect other people's opinion. It's also a matter of tolerance. A young lady here raised a point about a story featuring a woman being forced into sex by 2 witches. Now that's gonna give me nightmares for the next week. But I love the incest stories.

It's matter of 'each to their own', and we have to respect other people's preferences. I've always seen Lush as a liberal site, and that's why I love it. Let's keep it that way.
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by Ruthie


If the participant consents to having his or her mind controlled, there is no issue of non-consent. If there is an issue with non-consent, the story will be returned.



That's wrong. This is a liberal site. We have to respect other people's opinions and sexual preferences. Rejecting their stories is throwing their stories back in their faces and shunning their preference. That is not acceptable on a site like Lush. you should know that. Is Lush a liberal site or not? I don;t know what's gong on now.
browncoffee
Coco Pop
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Quote by BigGarrett


That's wrong. This is a liberal site. We have to respect other people's opinions and sexual preferences. Rejecting their stories is throwing their stories back in their faces and shunning their preference. That is not acceptable on a site like Lush. you should know that. Is Lush a liberal site or not? I don;t know what's gong on now.


I don't know what's going on in your head, tbh. Is this some attempt at mockery?
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by BigGarrett


That's wrong. This is a liberal site. We have to respect other people's opinions and sexual preferences. Rejecting their stories is throwing their stories back in their faces and shunning their preference. That is not acceptable on a site like Lush. you should know that. Is Lush a liberal site or not? I don;t know what's gong on now.


Lush is a site, privately owned and operated. It's not up for the debate if the owner rules. You do what the fat lady sings, or pay the consequences.
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by browncoffee


I don't know what's going on in your head, tbh. Is this some attempt at mockery?


No, obviously not. I've made my point totally clear. It's you that has to elaborate things.

My question is this: Is Lush a liberal site or not. The ball is in your court, sweetheart. Fire away.
browncoffee
Coco Pop
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Quote by BigGarrett


No, obviously not. I've made my point totally clear. It's you that has to elaborate things.

My question is this: Is Lush a liberal site or not. The ball is in your court, sweetheart. Fire away.


Well, that would depend on your definition of liberal because apparently you seem to think non consensual sex is 'liberal'.
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by browncoffee


Well, that would depend on your definition of liberal because apparently you seem to think non consensual sex is 'liberal'.


The official definition of liberal is this: willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

Shunning people's sexual preferences goes against everything this site stands for. Tolerance is the key. Even if you think someone's opinion is wrong, you have to accept it, you have to tolerate it. Either this site is liberal, or not. I'm still waiting for an answer.
patokl
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by BigGarrett


The official definition of liberal is this: willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

Shunning people's sexual preferences goes against everything this site stands for. Tolerance is the key. Even if you think someone's opinion is wrong, you have to accept it, you have to tolerate it. Either this site is liberal, or not. I'm still waiting for an answer.

Wrong! This site clearly stands for consent and the policy is to keep it that way.

Although I still wonder how a category with the following text in its description fits in that.
Quote by description of the mind control category

For example, a person may not wish to be servile to another, but might be forced to kneel down in front of them (and perform various "services"), in a case of mind over matter.

How can forcing someone to do a thing against their wish be consensual?
A little kindness can be so valuable, yet costs almost nothing

In many countries being gay is a crime, and even in modern societies, politicians try to legalise discrimination. Your voice can make a difference. Have a look at All Out to find out how.

Hey... pssst.... that's an l (as in luscious) at the end of my name, not an i
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by patokl

How can forcing someone to do a thing against their wish be consensual?[/quote

You don't make the rules, boy. That's Nicola's job. Please take you're single minded views elsewhere. There is no tolerance for that here. We have a liberal point of view.
Guest
Lurker
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Another thread gone berserk. Nicola cast the stones. End of debate.
Buz
The Linebacker
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C'mon people we're all adults here. You all joined Lushstories using your own intelligent, free will, decision making abilities. I do believe everyone is capable of passing over story subjects they don't like.

I could name some long standing categories that are not my cup of tea. I pick stories to read from categories that I enjoy.

No one is forcing you to read something you don't want to. There are no victims here. Just block or pass up on categories you personally find distasteful.

We at Lushstories added categories to expand our audience. We are not offering anything our competition, the other major online erotic sites don't offer.

It will be the job of the story verifiers to make sure all of the stories meet our guidelines before we post it on the front page.
patokl
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by BigGarrett
Quote by patokl

How can forcing someone to do a thing against their wish be consensual?[/quote

You don't make the rules, boy. That's Nicola's job. Please take you're single minded views elsewhere. There is no tolerance for that here. We have a liberal point of view.



You don't make the rules either nor do you have a say in what I can and cannot say on this site.
A little kindness can be so valuable, yet costs almost nothing

In many countries being gay is a crime, and even in modern societies, politicians try to legalise discrimination. Your voice can make a difference. Have a look at All Out to find out how.

Hey... pssst.... that's an l (as in luscious) at the end of my name, not an i
noll
"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by Jen
Sheesh. I wonder if murder mystery writers generate this much debate


I think they would if their purpose was to turn their readers on with their murder stories.


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

Dancewithme
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by Ruthie


Obviously the mind control category meets Lush standards. If it didn't, it wouldn't be a category. Whether a mind control story fits Lush standards is a matter for the story verifiers to decide. Lush is changing. We are broadening our horizons and doing story types that we haven't done before. Mind control is just one of our new categories. If you think reading stories about mind control will upset you, don't read them. The same holds true of any of our categories. If Love Stories upset you, don't read them. Our moderators are capable of telling when a story breaches Lush rules. We return stories with elements of non-consent all the time. We will do the same when mind control crosses the line of consent.

We have an obligation to all our members to provide stories that interest and excite them. All of our members don't like the same type of story, so we have numerous categories for them to choose from. If any category offends you, by all means, don't read it. Readers who read mind control stories know that the stories contain elements of mind control Mind control means control of another person's mind. If the participant consents to having his or her mind controlled, there is no issue of non-consent. If there is an issue with non-consent, the story will be returned.


I agree with you fully Ruthie. We everyday members do not decide what site policy will be. When Nicola decides to list a new category then OUR choice is to stay or leave.
nicola
Matriarch
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This thread has run its course, and will be closed off.