One Child Policy

25 Apr 2010

What do you think of the One Child Policy and sterilizing those that don't comply?

Back in December, Financial Post editor-at-large Diane Francis wrote a column in which she forthrightly declared:

The "inconvenient truth" overhanging the UN's Copenhagen conference is not that the climate is warming or cooling, but that humans are overpopulating the world.

A planetary law, such as China's one-child policy, is the only way to reverse the disastrous global birthrate currently, which is one million births every four days....

China has proven that birth restriction is smart policy.

So what does government control of family sizes look like? Earlier this week, the Times (London) reported:

Doctors in southern China are working around the clock to fulfil a government goal to sterilise — by force if necessary — almost 10,000 men and women who have violated birth control policies. Family planning authorities are so determined to stop couples from producing more children than the regulations allow that they are detaining the relatives of those who resist.

About 1,300 people are being held in cramped conditions in towns across Puning county, in Guangdong Province, as officials try to put pressure on couples who have illegal children to come forward for sterilisation.

The 20-day campaign, which was launched on April 7, aims to complete 9,559 sterilisations in Puning, which, with a population of 2.24 million, is the most populous county in the province.

http://reason.com/blog/2010/04/23/one-child-policy-update

26 Apr 2010

Seems inhumane at first glance but the complications that occur from overpopulation are far more inhumane in my opinon. Keep in mind that China has tried numerous things to curb their population growth, and have obviously failed. A government can implement policies or laws, but if the people don't follow them, then more extreme measures need to be taken.

What can you do? Fine them? Imprison them? Or give them a free vasectomy? I'd take the vasectomy personally.

26 Apr 2010

This is the first time that I agree with China's government.
And I am suprised that they did not initiate this before they started abusing other countries..

I know that this will sound heartles but people will have no pleace to live and no food to eat and I don't understand how selfish people can be; they want a children no matter that the chlid will be suffering (for a staple food) through life just because parents wanted house full of kids.
Very selfish, very irresponsible and I see this as a abuse toward a child.

World population is increasing much more than it's should be. We will suffocate our selfs.

This is one of the reasons why I decided in my early 20' that I will not give a birth to a child.
And no, I don't feel that I am sacrificing myself in any case icon_smile

26 Apr 2010

I shouldn't really comment on this delicate subject matter, but looking at all the uneducated people even in the so called developed world, pumping out 4+ children and living on welfare, you have to wonder about enforcing rules for the common good. It's a global problem after all.

Malthus and his theory may certainly be proved correct, logic dictates it.

26 Apr 2010

Unfortunately in this kind of situation, money is still the way to get around the one-child policy. There are always loopholes if you have the right kind of cash and connections. A friend verified that this is what wealthy or elite families are currently doing in China.

The bigger issue here is that this is a culture where female offspring are devalued and the horrific demands this is placing on women to give birth to a male child has significantly skewed the gender split in the population. Ways of enforcing the preference that the "single child" to be born to the family is a boy, are not appropriate discussion for this forum, however, there are some truly barbaric and shocking practices currently being employed in China.

The 'one child' policy will not work in countries where gender favouritism is still entrenched in the culture. Unfortunately this favouritism is even more deeply rooted in poor/rural communities, and these are the people who don't have the money to get around the government rules. So it's either sterilization and/or back-alley procedures.

Not a fun place to be a woman!

26 Apr 2010

So let us put it this way...you decide to have one child and it dies and you are sterlized....what then?

26 Apr 2010

I don't know Lois, adoption?
I have to wonder too, if there's an over abundance of males and rarely females, where will the males find or get sexual relief?
Also. I wonder if the USA with it's ACLU and everyone trying so hard to not offend or step on anyone's rights, if it would ever try to limit population growth. IIRC didn't Bill Clinton limit welfare to people with five children or less? I thought I had read that that was what some people were doing to stay on government assistance. Having baby after baby after baby.

I'd also like to hear Woman's take on this since she's now in China.

26 Apr 2010

Quote by chefkathleen
I don't know Lois, adoption?
I have to wonder too, if there's an over abundance of males and rarely females, where will the males find or get sexual relief?
Also. I wonder if the USA with it's ACLU and everyone trying so hard to not offend or step on anyone's rights, if it would ever try to limit population growth. IIRC didn't Bill Clinton limit welfare to people with five children or less? I thought I had read that that was what some people were doing to stay on government assistance. Having baby after baby after baby.

I'd also like to hear Woman's take on this since she's now in China.

It's a nice thought in theory and we have people here in the UK who fall pregnant to get more benefits...I think everything is great in moderation. A lot of people can't adopt in the UK because they are too obese (size 18) etc and that is another can of worms right there...

26 Apr 2010

Chef, sweetie, is this a trick question to tempt out all those 'slightly right of Atilla the Hun' types into confessing bigotry?

***treads carefully out on the limb***

Western style democracy (read white & Japanese) population growth has shuddered to a halt as the people of our modern liberal democracies embrace their freedoms e.g. women are NOT chained to the kitchen sink and told to procreate. Enjoy your careers, your cable TV, your cars, medical care, contraception & the clean water etc. bootyshake

Just look at where the population growth comes from then decide if you, or any western politician would ever have the balls to do the prudent thing and follow China's lead on this topic. For my part, the wife and I decided to only have the one child. If the worst ever happened we would still have the medical technology to harvest sperm and egg to try again if we were so inclined....or adopt/foster. Different if you were from the poorer areas of, say, Ethiopia or Bangladesh.

Not all nations are as far-sighted (in some respects) as the totalitarian regime of China wherein they fear for the sustainability of their nation. They have chosen to do what other nations & continents are unwilling to do. Call me in about 15-20 yrs to check on the demographics of Europe and whether or not they have adopted Sharia Law there.

***feels way back off the limb whilst looking down at angry mob waving tie-dyed bandanas!!***
cussing

"Whoa, lady, I only speak two languages, English and bad English." - Korben Dallas, from The Fifth Element

"If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must man be of learning from experience?" - George Bernard Shaw

26 Apr 2010

I have 3 daughters, FUCK you if you think it's too many. They are my world, my everything. I can afford them, so it's not your problem. And Loislane is right!! What if your child passes.... WHAT THEN YOU DIMM WITTED SELFISH FUCK!!!!

26 Apr 2010

Can you say instant ban? lol

happy1

Seriously, no need to use strong language on an interesting and thought provoking topic. It's a complex issue that most people will not think about in macro terms but rather in micro terms. Meaning they'll only think in terms of their own immediate family, not the global consequences.
There does seem to be a tendency in the most Westernized societies to not have that many children as compared to back in the day when lots of kids would ensure having someone to take care of you once you reach an advanced age where you can't provide in your own means anymore. Also, when looking at people in higher end jobs they tend to have less children than people from a lower social economical status.

Money is definitely a confounding factor in such birth control efforts, it simply bypasses all and any rules. If you're rich you're excused to have more than 1 kid.
If the male vs. female ratio will become strongly pronounced in favor of the former then our animal instincts will take over. We can pretend to be so evolved but look at how people react after mother nature has struck with force (e.g., hurricane Katrina). We fall back to our primal core within nanoseconds.

loislane raises a splendid question and in response perhaps male sterilization would be the preferred way to go. It would avoid resulting in unwanted children and men can store their sperm in a bank for possible future use if the couple decides to have another child (regardless of whether the 1st child has died or not).

Insert typical super smart ass comment courtesy of thepainter here.

26 Apr 2010

It's a nice thought in theory and we have people here in the UK who fall pregnant to get more benefits...I think everything is great in moderation. A lot of people can't adopt in the UK because they are too obese (size 18) etc and that is another can of worms right there...

I did not know they did that! What a leap. Can you imagine if they did that in the US? The uproar of the ACLU and the liberals? I can hear them scream, "What's next? No adoptions if you're a person of color? A little person, etc.?"

I have 3 daughters, FUCK you if you think it's too many. They are my world, my everything. I can afford them, so it's not your problem. And Loislane is right!! What if your child passes.... WHAT THEN YOU DIMM WITTED SELFISH FUCK!!!!

Ah, yeah. Good arguement for China's point.

Just look at where the population growth comes from then decide if you, or any western politician would ever have the balls to do the prudent thing and follow China's lead on this topic. For my part, the wife and I decided to only have the one child. If the worst ever happened we would still have the medical technology to harvest sperm and egg to try again if we were so inclined....or adopt/foster. Different if you were from the poorer areas of, say, Ethiopia or Bangladesh.

I totally agree. No politician would touch that with a ten foot pole. He might not have his cushy job with all the benefits if he even opened up that discussion.

I think you and Thepainter touched on something as well. The economics of the whole thing. I think it depends on what country the more wealthy live in as to whether or not they have more kids. Here in the states it seems as if they have less children than more even though they can afford more. The idea of storage for the eggs and sperm is a good point although you have to pay to have them stored.

I agree with the animal instincts taking over. We all watched as the looters seemed to take over NOLA. Along wtih the horrors that went on in the Super Dome.

26 Apr 2010

There are actually exemptions to the one child policy, expecially among ethnic minority groups. In some rural areas couples are allowed to have a second child. Some areas also allow a second if the first one is a girl, as the increased workforce is necessary. The policy can also be waived if the first child has a physical or mental disability.

In 2001, China gave control of family planning over to the provinces, leading to some provinces relaxing the rules. In some rural areas, the government also simply does not have the means of enforcing it.

China tried a more gentle approach in the 70s, using economic benefits, free contraception, and education, but they smply did not work. This is what lead to the more mandatory policy being instituted. Now that things are starting to relax again, the population growth is rising once again.

The best way to decrease birth rate is to incease the status of women through education. Partof the reason birth rates in the west are lower is because women are waiting until later in life to have children because of careers. China will get there eventually, however the problem is....the population is already so large, that even a small natural increase in population will lead to exponential increases overall.

PS: MastrB8er...Please don't cloud an intelligent discussion with your ignorant rantings.

26 Apr 2010

Quote by DamonX
The best way to decrease birth rate is to incease the status of women through education. Part of the reason birth rates in the west are lower is because women are waiting until later in life to have children because of careers.

this is true...we are seeing mothers these days having their first children in their late 30s and 40s

26 Apr 2010

There are actually exemptions to the one child policy, expecially among ethnic minority groups. In some rural areas couples are allowed to have a second child. Some areas also allow a second if the first one is a girl, as the increased workforce is necessary. The policy can also be waived if the first child has a physical or mental disability.

I hadn't heard that they started this. I thought they were still killing, abandoning and otherwise disposing of the female children. Didn't Lisa Ling do an in depth report on this for NatGeo?

26 Apr 2010

Quote by Loislane
Quote by DamonX
The best way to decrease birth rate is to incease the status of women through education. Part of the reason birth rates in the west are lower is because women are waiting until later in life to have children because of careers.

this is true...we are seeing mothers these days having their first children in their late 30s and 40s

Except in the poorer rural areas where the government money increases with more children.

26 Apr 2010

Quote by chefkathleen
There are actually exemptions to the one child policy, expecially among ethnic minority groups. In some rural areas couples are allowed to have a second child. Some areas also allow a second if the first one is a girl, as the increased workforce is necessary. The policy can also be waived if the first child has a physical or mental disability.

I hadn't heard that they started this. I thought they were still killing, abandoning and otherwise disposing of the female children. Didn't Lisa Ling do an in depth report on this for NatGeo?

Like I stated above, the policy is different depending on the region.

26 Apr 2010

Quote by chefkathleen
Quote by Loislane
Quote by DamonX
The best way to decrease birth rate is to incease the status of women through education. Part of the reason birth rates in the west are lower is because women are waiting until later in life to have children because of careers.

this is true...we are seeing mothers these days having their first children in their late 30s and 40s

Except in the poorer rural areas where the government money increases with more children.

As far as I know, that practice was discontinued in the late 60s in China. The government under Mao tried to increase population by offering economic benefits with the purpose of producing more workers. Mao stated "Every stomach comes attached to two arms". The practice was quickly discontinued however, after the population began to outgrow the available resources and millions began dying from famine.

26 Apr 2010

The best way to decrease birth rate is to incease the status of women through education. Partof the reason birth rates in the west are lower is because women are waiting until later in life to have children because of careers

I was commenting on this not China.

28 Apr 2010

Sure. i understand your point, and agree in a way. I apologize for my crude answer, i get very angry, and take topics like this very personally. In my opinion it is not the Working class over populating and over crowding our planet. It's the countries in dire straits. Look at Sulalia, Kenya, Ghana, Mongolia, And any other poverty stricken country. The UN needs to put there foot down in places like this. In the long run we end up paying for these people to live and pro create.
Unfortunately, they do so with understanding exactly what they are doing. Education is not the problem when it comes to making children, It's boredom, and lack of the countries ability to be run efficiently to provide for there people!!!

Quote by thepainter
Can you say instant ban? lol

Seriously, no need to use strong language on an interesting and thought provoking topic. It's a complex issue that most people will not think about in macro terms but rather in micro terms. Meaning they'll only think in terms of their own immediate family, not the global consequences.
There does seem to be a tendency in the most Westernized societies to not have that many children as compared to back in the day when lots of kids would ensure having someone to take care of you once you reach an advanced age where you can't provide in your own means anymore. Also, when looking at people in higher end jobs they tend to have less children than people from a lower social economical status.

Money is definitely a confounding factor in such birth control efforts, it simply bypasses all and any rules. If you're rich you're excused to have more than 1 kid.
If the male vs. female ratio will become strongly pronounced in favor of the former then our animal instincts will take over. We can pretend to be so evolved but look at how people react after mother nature has struck with force (e.g., hurricane Katrina). We fall back to our primal core within nanoseconds.

loislane raises a splendid question and in response perhaps male sterilization would be the preferred way to go. It would avoid resulting in unwanted children and men can store their sperm in a bank for possible future use if the couple decides to have another child (regardless of whether the 1st child has died or not).

28 Apr 2010

Lack of education is always a problem in every segment of life.

No one can fix my problems, I can and only I. No one can wait for something to happen, fall down the sky or UN to do something for me.
Decisions that I make based on my knowledge will change my life.

Great thread ChefKathleen.

28 Apr 2010

Thanks She. I thought it was thought provoking. I also wonder down the line how other countries are going to handle this problem. The US being one of them. Other countries aren't as PC as we are and will demand that things happen. When I was overseas, I carried my passport with me at all times. If someone in authority asked to see it, I showed it. No questions asked. You do that to someone here in the States and there's a huge uproar over their personal/civil rights being violated.

28 Apr 2010

''Man plans, God laughs''......Einstein. If somebody is considering to have, or not have, children based on what Al Gore says then do the kid a favor, don't have one.

28 Apr 2010

You made me laugh out laud; but you have to admit that this is better than watching TV.

Hihi, and I thought that Mr.Gorbachov is the man evil4

28 Apr 2010

Correction

Quote by steviecom
.... what Al Gore says then do the kid a favor, don't have one.

..and I thought that Mr.Gorbachov is the man evil4

28 Apr 2010

Quote by chefkathleen
Thanks She. I thought it was thought provoking. I also wonder down the line how other countries are going to handle this problem. The US being one of them. Other countries aren't as PC as we are and will demand that things happen. When I was overseas, I carried my passport with me at all times. If someone in authority asked to see it, I showed it. No questions asked. You do that to someone here in the States and there's a huge uproar over their personal/civil rights being violated.

Seriously, it made me think about other things that I forgot for a while..

Europians are politicaly awere what is going on around them, sometimes it feels that they are less ignorant than political leaders but when it comes to rules we do obey. I believe is hard to accept that the identity card law is in use in democratic countries but this is comming out from 2.World war and communism. In that period people were under strict surveillance by authority on every step..
Believe me it make sense, but my Engish is not supporting my history knowledge 588-rolleyes

I was never asked to show my ID, not in my country or any other, it is rarely in use, but if I would be drunk or simply suspicious in any way to them I would be asked to show it.

28 Apr 2010

Your English is getting better everyday, She.
I was asked in a few countries, one being Russia and a few of the other less "open" ones.